The U.S. Economy is in the Toilet
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Sheaf_Beast
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Economy
Watch your pennies and the dollars will mind themselves.
I am curious why a canadian would be interested in this?
Watch your pennies and the dollars will mind themselves.
I am curious why a canadian would be interested in this?
Agent99
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It's been that way for 3 years. Is it just now dawning on you or affecting you?
You have to remember that it also went on an upwards tear for 10+ years prior to that - the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in history. There was unprecedented growth in that time.
The stock market correction is taking a bit longer than desired, but it is perfectly understandable that it is adjusting to more realistic levels.
Interest rates have been lowered to encourage people to buy more products and services in order to stimulate growth. Home buying is easier and within reach of more people than ever before. Trouble is, when most needed, people are suddenly frightened and actually holding on to their money instead of spending it. Go figure!
You have to remember that it also went on an upwards tear for 10+ years prior to that - the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in history. There was unprecedented growth in that time.
The stock market correction is taking a bit longer than desired, but it is perfectly understandable that it is adjusting to more realistic levels.
Interest rates have been lowered to encourage people to buy more products and services in order to stimulate growth. Home buying is easier and within reach of more people than ever before. Trouble is, when most needed, people are suddenly frightened and actually holding on to their money instead of spending it. Go figure!
The Heretic
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Yep, where have you been? The economy has been in the toilet (relatively) for a while now.
Add on top of that the 9/11 attack and that just kept people from feeling confident enough to reinvest. At first I thought it would all come back in 6 months to a year, but now I can see the economy is going to take some time (at least 1-2 more years) before people will feel confident that we are on the rebound.
For me I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; I am once again employed after being unemployed for a long friggin time. The best way to describe how it affected me was that I was not moving forward in my life. I could have lasted about another year, but I would have been thoroughly broke. Before that happened I would have moved over a thousand miles away to where I had a guaranteed job to tide me over until I found a better one. Now I can stay where I am at.jodarby said:
There are multiple people to blame, but I believe the catalyst for our current situation was the greed of those people who invested in and those who pushed the sale of stock in dot com companies that had no sustainable business model, much less a model that made sense.
Add on top of that the 9/11 attack and that just kept people from feeling confident enough to reinvest. At first I thought it would all come back in 6 months to a year, but now I can see the economy is going to take some time (at least 1-2 more years) before people will feel confident that we are on the rebound.
G
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clit_licker30
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I am taking my 401k and buying a sixpack. And cursing the stainmaster (Klintoon).
jodarby
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Re: Economy
The world's largest trading partnership takes place between Canada and the U.S. While Canada had astounding employment growth last month, not to mention a balanced budget and increased spending, it doesn't help that our biggest trade partner is slipping into recession.
More trade goes between Ontario and the U.S. than does trade between Japan and the U.S. Most people assume otherwise.
Sheaf_Beast said:
The world's largest trading partnership takes place between Canada and the U.S. While Canada had astounding employment growth last month, not to mention a balanced budget and increased spending, it doesn't help that our biggest trade partner is slipping into recession.
More trade goes between Ontario and the U.S. than does trade between Japan and the U.S. Most people assume otherwise.
jodarby
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Cyles
It isn't affecting me. Canada continues to have astounding growth employment-wise. The Canadian dollar has risen against the American currency at an accelerated rate. Our budget is balanced, has been in surplus the last six years.
We've also had the same period of growth that the U.S. had over ten years.
Things had begun to turn before September 11. They only seem to get worse each month. Is it really a good time to have a deficit in the U.S.?
Agent99 said:
It isn't affecting me. Canada continues to have astounding growth employment-wise. The Canadian dollar has risen against the American currency at an accelerated rate. Our budget is balanced, has been in surplus the last six years.
We've also had the same period of growth that the U.S. had over ten years.
Things had begun to turn before September 11. They only seem to get worse each month. Is it really a good time to have a deficit in the U.S.?
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The Heretic
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Re: Cyles
BTW, Spelling Buddy says "affecting", not "effecting". I can affect you, but I would probably have to be your creator to effect you.jodarby said:
jodarby
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Re: Re: Cyles
If we are going at to mark on typos and grammar. The phrase "where I am at" should simply read "where I am."
In any event, Canada has not been subject to the same economic drop and deficit problems the U.S. has experienced.
September 11 is only partly to blame for what has been happening. The tax cut to stimulate the economy hasn't worked and has only increased the deficit with no signs that has helped economic recovery.
The Heretic said:
If we are going at to mark on typos and grammar. The phrase "where I am at" should simply read "where I am."
In any event, Canada has not been subject to the same economic drop and deficit problems the U.S. has experienced.
September 11 is only partly to blame for what has been happening. The tax cut to stimulate the economy hasn't worked and has only increased the deficit with no signs that has helped economic recovery.
The Heretic
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Re: Re: Re: Cyles
Not keeping score, just a pet peeve of mine; people (including myself) often use "affect" and "effect" incorrectly - I only pointed it out after you did it four times in two different posts.jodarby said:
Too little, too late - and either way the government has little effect upon the economy.
G
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Re: Re: Re: Cyles
Not all segments of the economy are in the toilet. I manage a factory that manufatures goods for the "Home Entertainment" market. My guys are working 58 hour weeks. In a way, my industry benefitted from the changes following the whole 9/11 thing. The trends that resulted in less travel and investment lead people to stay at home and spend more on home improvements.
The Heretic
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No they aren't, and the economy really isn't that much in the toilet, but overall it kindof sucks. I've seen a lot worse (I was unemployed during the recession of the mid 70s) - I think people just got used to the 80s and 90s, and thought the high times would last forever. I know I was planning to retire on my stock options, and I thought the problems were only in the tech sector at first. It turned out the tech sector was just the most visible and most hyped sector to have problems - we were also the sector that seemed to be flying the highest (except for maybe the stock market).Nefarious said:
REDWAVE
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Down the drain!
Actually, the economy would probably have to improve a bit to rise to the level of the toilet. Right now, it's deep underground, in the utmost bowels of the sewer system. The "boom" of the 1990's benefitted mainly the upper 20%. Now the downturn is hurting mainly-- you guessed it, those at the lower end of the income scale. It is absolutely criminal and flagrantly irresponsible that the government is doing nothing to even try to alleviate the suffering of the people. Instead, Bush's only answer is more tax cuts for the rich.
Putting a double whammy on the average American is the high price of gasoline now. It's already up to $2.00/gallon. When war breaks out, it could well shoot up to $5.00/gallon or even more.
Mainstream pundits have been saying for two years now that recovery is right around the corner. If anything, it's farther away than ever now. Can you say "Herbert Hoover"?
Actually, the economy would probably have to improve a bit to rise to the level of the toilet. Right now, it's deep underground, in the utmost bowels of the sewer system. The "boom" of the 1990's benefitted mainly the upper 20%. Now the downturn is hurting mainly-- you guessed it, those at the lower end of the income scale. It is absolutely criminal and flagrantly irresponsible that the government is doing nothing to even try to alleviate the suffering of the people. Instead, Bush's only answer is more tax cuts for the rich.
Putting a double whammy on the average American is the high price of gasoline now. It's already up to $2.00/gallon. When war breaks out, it could well shoot up to $5.00/gallon or even more.
Mainstream pundits have been saying for two years now that recovery is right around the corner. If anything, it's farther away than ever now. Can you say "Herbert Hoover"?
Re: Re: Economy
A couple facts. The US unemployment rate is - 5.8 - percent, not expected to grow significantly. Canada's unemployment rate is currently - 7.4 - percent, not expected to decrease significantly despite the creation of over 600, 000 new jobs there since Jan. 1. The economic growth for both US and Canada is forecast at approximately 2 per cent for the first quarter 2003. Remember this: US economy, our stock market and our imports of Canadian goods affects Canada more than your ecomony affects ours.
jodarby said:
A couple facts. The US unemployment rate is - 5.8 - percent, not expected to grow significantly. Canada's unemployment rate is currently - 7.4 - percent, not expected to decrease significantly despite the creation of over 600, 000 new jobs there since Jan. 1. The economic growth for both US and Canada is forecast at approximately 2 per cent for the first quarter 2003. Remember this: US economy, our stock market and our imports of Canadian goods affects Canada more than your ecomony affects ours.
jodarby
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Cyles
I make the error sometimes when I am writing. But there are several spellings in Canada that are different than the U.S. I often mess up on its and it's too before I catch it later.
Travelling is spelled with two Ls in Canada. Likewise: bussing.
The worlds colour, valour as well a several other words that have "or" in them, use "our" in Canada.
We don't always used British or U.S. spellings as a rule. We use a combination of both and sometimes have our own versions that are recognized in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary.
But as I have said, sometimes I make mistakes and typos as well as grammar mistakes when writing unless I am proofreading when as I go along. That is something I don't do often enough when writing emails or quick message forums.
I'm sure we can all be accused of that in our correspondence.
Emerald_eyed said:
I make the error sometimes when I am writing. But there are several spellings in Canada that are different than the U.S. I often mess up on its and it's too before I catch it later.
Travelling is spelled with two Ls in Canada. Likewise: bussing.
The worlds colour, valour as well a several other words that have "or" in them, use "our" in Canada.
We don't always used British or U.S. spellings as a rule. We use a combination of both and sometimes have our own versions that are recognized in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary.
But as I have said, sometimes I make mistakes and typos as well as grammar mistakes when writing unless I am proofreading when as I go along. That is something I don't do often enough when writing emails or quick message forums.
I'm sure we can all be accused of that in our correspondence.
jodarby
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Re: Re: Re: Economy
That is why I asked how the U.S. economy has affected people on the list. Our growth doesn't take place in a vacuum.
As for the two way trade, any hold up in either direction can cause business to grind to a halt. If an automative strike takes place at Ford in Canada, it cab shut down all of Ford in the States after a few weeks. Likewise, we are hurt by a storm in the States that closed highways for a few days. The economies are that integrated.
Still, we have been doing what has been needed to maintain job growth and economic stability without increasing the deficit. We started out slower and farther behind the States in this regard but have been steadily making progress towards what the U.S. numbers are. However, U.S. numbers in a wide variety of areas including retail and sales figures are going in the opposite way of what Canada's latest figures are.
That makes us nervous in Canada, especially as it can and will drag us down in the long run.
Zurich said:
That is why I asked how the U.S. economy has affected people on the list. Our growth doesn't take place in a vacuum.
As for the two way trade, any hold up in either direction can cause business to grind to a halt. If an automative strike takes place at Ford in Canada, it cab shut down all of Ford in the States after a few weeks. Likewise, we are hurt by a storm in the States that closed highways for a few days. The economies are that integrated.
Still, we have been doing what has been needed to maintain job growth and economic stability without increasing the deficit. We started out slower and farther behind the States in this regard but have been steadily making progress towards what the U.S. numbers are. However, U.S. numbers in a wide variety of areas including retail and sales figures are going in the opposite way of what Canada's latest figures are.
That makes us nervous in Canada, especially as it can and will drag us down in the long run.
Agent99
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Just a point of reference here since you quoted me. I never mentioned anything about September 11th - although others who posted after me did. That was 2001. I said our economic woes began 3 years ago. The second week of January 2000 to be exact. I remember it very well. That was approximately two weeks prior to Bush's inauguration - although that is not the thrust of my response.
However, now that you mention it, September 11th has had a dramatic impact on our collective economies. We all know the airline industry was greatly harmed by that tragedy. So was the hotel and travel industry. Both here and abroad.
But it has touched many more and continues to do so today. It is a perfect example of the trickle down theory in reality. Restaurants, Broadway shows and shopping venues in many locales have suffered business losses. Some to the point of ruin.Travel and tourism, which many countries rely on for a large part of their revenue, is still limping along.
Because of terrorist threats to our food supply, farmers and grocers raised prices. Security concerns and planning hiked the price of goods and services in many sectors. Producer prices took huge jumps because opportunists both here and abroad decided to take advantage of the situation.
We like to blame manufacturers for inflation most of the time, but they can only do so much when the cost of raw materials are arbitrarily raised. There is only so much they can absorb without slipping into red ink.
It becomes a domino effect when prices rise to the point that there are no consumers left to afford them. So what happens? Manufacturers resort to JIT operations and inventory is depleted. You can't very well blame them for trying to reduce overhead and operating costs. So the law of supply and demand takes effect.
As a result, companies begin laying off employees. These people have difficulty securing new employment and must turn to the government for support. The government, in turn, raises taxes to generate revenue to support the increase in the number of people on the doles. (not to mention the times the government bails out entire industries by advancing low interest loans which sometimes are not repaid.)
Investors lose faith because they do not get the recompense they expected. When you have more sellers than buyers, the market goes down and prices are depressed.
It is a very pervasive and contagious frame of mind. A losing mentality, if you will.
Shareholders do not receive dividends, banks lower the interest paid and tighten the reins on lending. People hold tight to their savings because they think hoarding will stave off the bad times.
Someone mentioned the price of gasoline. In 1998 the price of crude oil averaged $12.10/bbl; in 1999 it was $19 and in 2000 it rose sharply to $30. This week it is trading at over $36/bbl. This impacts our economy to a great degree. It's not that it just affects average drivers. It affects a large portion of our transportation industry. We move most of our food and consumer goods by trucks. Of course, we also depend on the rail system and through shipping and air transport.
We heat our homes and use many products that originate from petroleum sources. Naturally, many things we consume absorb that cost when energy prices skyrocket. They pass the costs along to us. We need to conserve, but I realize that is easier said than done.
So, yes, September 11th did produce many troubles for us all. But your post makes it seem like it is the fault of the US government or citizens!
Anyway, it becomes rather messy at this point because we tap into resources supposedly set aside for a rainy day. We cannot continue in this vein.
A solution? I am not sure. I am not an economist (as evidenced by this rather childish and elementary definition of the economic blueprint) The only thing I know is that we, as a nation are more productive when our citizens are working and contributing.
I have a question for you though. If it does not affect you, then why did you start this thread? Was it just an attempt to bash America because that is the '"thing to do" these days?
In your response to me you said it didn't affect you. Now, reading the reply you made to Zurich, you say it will drag Canada down. Are you not included in that? Just curious, not belligerent!
However, now that you mention it, September 11th has had a dramatic impact on our collective economies. We all know the airline industry was greatly harmed by that tragedy. So was the hotel and travel industry. Both here and abroad.
But it has touched many more and continues to do so today. It is a perfect example of the trickle down theory in reality. Restaurants, Broadway shows and shopping venues in many locales have suffered business losses. Some to the point of ruin.Travel and tourism, which many countries rely on for a large part of their revenue, is still limping along.
Because of terrorist threats to our food supply, farmers and grocers raised prices. Security concerns and planning hiked the price of goods and services in many sectors. Producer prices took huge jumps because opportunists both here and abroad decided to take advantage of the situation.
We like to blame manufacturers for inflation most of the time, but they can only do so much when the cost of raw materials are arbitrarily raised. There is only so much they can absorb without slipping into red ink.
It becomes a domino effect when prices rise to the point that there are no consumers left to afford them. So what happens? Manufacturers resort to JIT operations and inventory is depleted. You can't very well blame them for trying to reduce overhead and operating costs. So the law of supply and demand takes effect.
As a result, companies begin laying off employees. These people have difficulty securing new employment and must turn to the government for support. The government, in turn, raises taxes to generate revenue to support the increase in the number of people on the doles. (not to mention the times the government bails out entire industries by advancing low interest loans which sometimes are not repaid.)
Investors lose faith because they do not get the recompense they expected. When you have more sellers than buyers, the market goes down and prices are depressed.
It is a very pervasive and contagious frame of mind. A losing mentality, if you will.
Shareholders do not receive dividends, banks lower the interest paid and tighten the reins on lending. People hold tight to their savings because they think hoarding will stave off the bad times.
Someone mentioned the price of gasoline. In 1998 the price of crude oil averaged $12.10/bbl; in 1999 it was $19 and in 2000 it rose sharply to $30. This week it is trading at over $36/bbl. This impacts our economy to a great degree. It's not that it just affects average drivers. It affects a large portion of our transportation industry. We move most of our food and consumer goods by trucks. Of course, we also depend on the rail system and through shipping and air transport.
We heat our homes and use many products that originate from petroleum sources. Naturally, many things we consume absorb that cost when energy prices skyrocket. They pass the costs along to us. We need to conserve, but I realize that is easier said than done.
So, yes, September 11th did produce many troubles for us all. But your post makes it seem like it is the fault of the US government or citizens!
Anyway, it becomes rather messy at this point because we tap into resources supposedly set aside for a rainy day. We cannot continue in this vein.
A solution? I am not sure. I am not an economist (as evidenced by this rather childish and elementary definition of the economic blueprint) The only thing I know is that we, as a nation are more productive when our citizens are working and contributing.
I have a question for you though. If it does not affect you, then why did you start this thread? Was it just an attempt to bash America because that is the '"thing to do" these days?
In your response to me you said it didn't affect you. Now, reading the reply you made to Zurich, you say it will drag Canada down. Are you not included in that? Just curious, not belligerent!
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