The tyranny of category

[EmilyMiller]

So - given that 50% of AH threads are about Loving Wives - why am I adding to the noise?

Well something struck me. When I publish something in LW that goes against the grain for some, I get comments like:

• Wrong category
• Should be in lesbian
• Take your deviant shit elsewhere

But this is the minority of comments. Most are polite and some encouraging.

One type of comment I have had a lot is along the lines of:

• I’m glad you published your story here as I’d never have read it in Lesbian Sex (or Fetish, or Anal, or whatever)

Isn’t one problem with categories that people are restricting themselves to a narrow section of stories and are possibly missing out on things they might actually enjoy?

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes, but that's up to them. Literotica isn't going to take steps to make its readers better readers. It's going to take them as they come (so to speak) and set up things like categories so as to maximize the ability of readers to find the stories they want. From the standpoint of marketing and business success, this is a rational approach.

The ones who are disserved by the current category system are authors, not readers, and it's clear that from the Site's standpoint readers come first--and that makes sense.

 

[Euphony]

Needs to be at least some personal responsibility/self-startedness by readers to find what they want and avoid what they don't.

I'm no fan of the authors who spring Gotchas! on people but the scoring usually shows there's some buyer beware going on.

Categories are a tool. Tags are a refinement. If an author abuses tags (use, misuse, or no use) they only get me and my view once, if even that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yes, but that's up to them. Literotica isn't going to take steps to make its readers better readers. It's going to take them as they come (so to speak) and set up things like categories so as to maximize the ability of readers to find the stories they want. From the standpoint of marketing and business success, this is a rational approach.

The ones who are disserved by the current category system are authors, not readers, and it's clear that from the Site's standpoint readers come first--and that makes sense.

I get it’s reader-centric. But it seems to me that at least some readers are stuck in a narrow category and would be better served by looking elsewhere (but they probably don’t know it). Without getting too political, it’s like people who only watch a certain news channel.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Needs to be at least some personal responsibility/self-startedness by readers to find what they want and avoid what they don't.

I'm no fan of the authors who spring Gotchas! on people but the scoring usually shows there's some buyer beware going on.

Categories are a tool. Tags are a refinement. If an author abuses tags (use, misuse, or no use) they only get me and my view once, if even that.

That’s kinda assuming that the contents of categories are fixed and immutable. Why would an errant woman who happens to be in a same sex marriage not have her story told in cheating central?

Em

 

[luv2custrip]

I’ve been told I would have more readers if I adapted my EV stories to make them fit into LW. I didn’t know there were specific guidelines for LW. I don’t get it. I’m writing what I like to read myself.

 

[Euphony]

But it seems to me that at least some readers are stuck in a narrow category and would be better served by looking elsewhere

True, but there are a lot of mules you could spare them every effort, throwing them over your shoulders, dragging them to water, and they'll still refuse to drink.

Logistics rarely seems the key for the problematic readers issues here.

 

[EmilyMiller]

True, but there are a lot of mules you could spare them every effort, throwing them over your shoulders, dragging them to water, and they'll still refuse to drink.

Logistics rarely seems the key for the problematic readers issues here.

View attachment 2286544

OK - you are probably right .

Em

 

[Bamagan]

True, but there are a lot of mules you could spare them every effort, throwing them over your shoulders, dragging them to water, and they'll still refuse to drink.

Logistics rarely seems the key for the problematic readers issues here.

View attachment 2286544

Love the autocolonoscopy ostrich.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’ve been told I would have more readers if I adapted my EV stories to make them fit into LW. I didn’t know there were specific guidelines for LW. I don’t get it. I’m writing what I like to read myself.

I’d say only write LW if you want to. I wrote one archetypal LW story to prove to myself that I could - it did well. But I don’t find the category interesting.

There is a decent EV audience here. It’s not my kink (well being spied on when having sex isn’t anyway) but I’ve been writing some stories in that category as it’s at least kinda interesting.

To me of course, all of this is a personal perspective.

Em

 

[Rob_Royale]

Isn’t one problem with categories that people are restricting themselves to a narrow section of stories and are possibly missing out on things they might actually enjoy?

I agree and it's why I search rather randomly just checking out the popular searches tags that pop up when you hit the search function. But not everyone is like that. I would say most people are limited on the time they have to peruse erotica and want to spend that time reading something they know they will be into.

 

[Euphony]

OK - you are probably right .

Em

Meh, you know even better than I how much of a spectrum categories can be. And how readers have their own definitions and they'll be hell to pay if you don't agree.

More categories would be great. More reader flexibility would help as well.

But Simon cut to the heart of it, readers first. And the readers that seem to be the loud minority we run across seem intractable almost no matter what.

 

[SimonDoom]

I’ve been told I would have more readers if I adapted my EV stories to make them fit into LW. I didn’t know there were specific guidelines for LW. I don’t get it. I’m writing what I like to read myself.

As you should. You're doing the right thing. Write the story you want to, and worry about categories only after you've done that.

This is my view, and I've stated it before. The story is the art. The rest is marketing. Stay true to your art, and flexible on your marketing.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Meh, you know even better than I how much of a spectrum categories can be. And how readers have their own definitions and they'll be hell to pay if you don't agree.

More categories would be great. More reader flexibility would help as well.

But Simon cut to the heart of it, readers first. And the readers that seem to be the loud minority we run across seem intractable almost no matter what.

I think it’s a loud minority.

Em

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I've said it before; some of the catagories are specific to the theme, some are pretty broad. It's the readers that lack the understandings and look for specific things, or expect specific things. Often they don't understand the story they're reading, thus it's not always your story in the wrong section, they just don't grasp why it's there, or expect it there. Doesn't matter how well we do our part, the readers are entities out of our control.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Meh, you know even better than I how much of a spectrum categories can be. And how readers have their own definitions and they'll be hell to pay if you don't agree.

More categories would be great. More reader flexibility would help as well.

But Simon cut to the heart of it, readers first. And the readers that seem to be the loud minority we run across seem intractable almost no matter what.

Better readers are what we need. Do your jobs, damn it!

If only we could build them. Hornier, voteier, smarter....rer.

 

[Euphony]

Better readers are what we need. Do your jobs, damn it!

If only we could build them. Hornier, voteier, smarter....rer.

There's a push/pull and improvements could be made adjusting either side.

Readers could take more responsibility in their consumption rather than default to our current society Veruca Salt "I want mine and I want it NOW!" norm.

Authors could have less ego involved in their scores and vote counts. (they is so much randomness and the really breathtaking works often only hover around the Red H)

But like any couple, if neither gives a little, nothing changes.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I get it’s reader-centric. But it seems to me that at least some readers are stuck in a narrow category and would be better served by looking elsewhere (but they probably don’t know it). Without getting too political, it’s like people who only watch a certain news channel.

Em

That's entirely on the reader - and I guess, to a lesser extent, the writers who cater to those limited windows.

For an erotica site, there sure are a ton of readers with very narrow minds.

 

[AchtungNight]

I tell my readers this- if you like my work, I hope you will read more of it no matter where it is. And if your unfamiliarity with some fandom is blocking you, well, get familiar and maybe you’ll be entertained as I have been.

:sigh: It’s had limited success.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

That's entirely on the reader - and I guess, to a lesser extent, the writers who cater to those limited windows.

For an erotica site, there sure are a ton of readers with very narrow minds.

That's how it be. You have avid readers and you have spur of the moment readers, that just want this one thing to get off and go about their day, they don't wanna waste time with what ain't getting that nut off.

 

[EmilyMiller]

A fair statement and probably an accurate characterization, but it prompts me to think that the site would be well-served by taking care of its authors (too) who in turn take care of the readers.

We are Soylent Green ingredients, hun.

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

A fair statement and probably an accurate characterization, but it prompts me to think that the site would be well-served by taking care of its authors (too) who in turn take care of the readers.

Only if you can think of a specific way to juggle both these sets of balls. Most cannot.

 

[SimonDoom]

I got nuthin’.
That said, folks had a lot to say in LC68’s “you just bought literotica” thread - there were a number of QOL suggestions that would benefit authors specifically. Whether they’re reasonably doable, I wouldn’t know.
But I would say that they maybe oughta be considered, in the spirit of my “take care of the authors who take care of your readers” idea…

The question you have to ask is, "Will this change, which I think will benefit authors, place even the teeniest, tiniest roadblock in the way of readers getting what they want?"

And if the answer is yes, you immediately stop. You do not pass go.

That's why it's fruitless to discuss limitations on the ability of anonymous readers to vote or comment. Never going to happen. And many authors, like me, don't want it to happen.

If I were the site owner, I would think exactly the same way.

 

[SoCalAshley]

Isn’t one problem with categories that people are restricting themselves to a narrow section of stories and are possibly missing out on things they might actually enjoy?

That is exactly the problem with categories. Before becoming a writer, I was long time reader. When I first started reading stories, I exclusively used categories to pick the stories I would read. Eventually I started to seek out new categories and to my surprise, it opened a new world for me. It took some time for this to happen, and I suspect many Literotica readers will never get there.

 

[intim8]

Isn’t one problem with categories that people are restricting themselves to a narrow section of stories and are possibly missing out on things they might actually enjoy?

Yes. For instance, I don't read the Lesbian category, but if something in another category has a lesbian scene in it, I generally enjoy it. I don't read the category because I don't want just that, I don't want it to be the total focus. But I do like reading it.

I just read a story in NC/R that had lesbian anal in it. I didn't mind, because the story was good, as a story, as the kind of story that could almost have been mainstream if it was all euphemisms and indirect references. I read a story recently in some category that wasn't GM that had a more than brief male/male (both straight) scene in it. Doesn't turn me on (kinda the opposite, to be honest), but it worked with who the characters were, it wasn't gratuitious, so I didn't mind it.

Not every single thing in every story has to be my thing to be a good story, and some things are a little bit my thing, but not enough to go looking specifically for them.

It's the same with other categories. My stories tend to wander that way. Things happen, my characters do things, and I tend not to write single-scene stories. But I try to put it in the category that represents what the story is focused on. I try to hit tags for other stuff, but I admit I'm somewhat inconsistent on that. Makes me wish there was a "psychological erotica" category.