the star rating system

[rae121452]

i just recently discovered that i can rate my own stories. of course, they all warrant a 5!

does anyone else vote on their own stories?

 

[NotWise]

i just recently discovered that i can rate my own stories. of course, they all warrant a 5!

does anyone else vote on their own stories?

I did once. It seemed like an empty gesture.

 

[lovecraft68]

I did once to test the theory that an author's votes are removed during a sweep. I did it on a fetish story because they receive few votes compared to other categories and I had a better chance of monitoring it.

As far as I could tell the vote stuck.

 

[HisArpy]

What's the point?

YOU know you did it. You also now know that the rating of the story is a fraud.

Trolls vote to downgrade a story. Voting on your own story to upgrade it's rating is the same thing on the opposite end of the scale. This is also the same thing as writing anonymous comments to your own stories; what's the point?

Stories should live and die on their own without being manipulated by the author. If an author has to massage the rating results or comment on his own story to achieve some sort of self-inflicted ego trip, what's that say about the quality of the story and/or the author?

 

[SimonDoom]

I haven't done it (I don't think -- I can't recall for certain but I don't think I have) but I see nothing wrong with it. You are a reader as well as a writer, and your vote accurately reflects that as a reader you liked your own story (assuming that people generally like the stories they write -- otherwise, why would they write them?).

Of course, if you create fake identities and vote multiple times for a story, then you're cheating. But casting one vote for one's own story? There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[lovecraft68]

What's the point?

YOU know you did it. You also now know that the rating of the story is a fraud.

Trolls vote to downgrade a story. Voting on your own story to upgrade it's rating is the same thing on the opposite end of the scale. This is also the same thing as writing anonymous comments to your own stories; what's the point?

Stories should live and die on their own without being manipulated by the author. If an author has to massage the rating results or comment on his own story to achieve some sort of self-inflicted ego trip, what's that say about the quality of the story and/or the author?

I agree completely. As I said the time I did it was about seeing if a long debated 'rule' was actually true or not.

Otherwise its sad and tacky.

 

[oggbashan]

It reminds me of the candidate for an elected political post who got zero votes. He had forgotten that he COULD vote for himself and his mother voted for the other candidate by mistake.

 

[rae121452]

I agree completely. As I said the time I did it was about seeing if a long debated 'rule' was actually true or not.

Otherwise its sad and tacky.

what's really sad and tacky is a person whose self esteem is so dependent on approval on an internet site that they can't have a little fun with it. its a porn site, not harvard alumni, lighten up.

 

[HisArpy]

You are a reader as well as a writer, and your vote accurately reflects that as a reader you liked your own story (assuming that people generally like the stories they write -- otherwise, why would they write them?).

This assumes that your vote isn't based on your own sense of self worth rather than a true sense of enjoyment you got from the story.

Who knows their own mind enough to accurately judge their own words? Whose sense of self is so neutral that they can be unbiased about themselves and their deeds and actions?

No one.

 

[lovecraft68]

what's really sad and tacky is a person whose self esteem is so dependent on approval on an internet site that they can't have a little fun with it. its a porn site, not harvard alumni, lighten up.

I am lightened up. I'm expressing my opinion. But your point sort of makes mine. Does a person's self esteem need such a boost they'd vote on their own story?

Like someone else said, you know its your vote so what's the point? The only one I could think of is narcissism over score? That or trying to equal out a troll.

BTW you might want to wipe you face. Got a little something on your chin there.

 

[rae121452]

What's the point?

YOU know you did it. You also now know that the rating of the story is a fraud.

Trolls vote to downgrade a story. Voting on your own story to upgrade it's rating is the same thing on the opposite end of the scale. This is also the same thing as writing anonymous comments to your own stories; what's the point?

Stories should live and die on their own without being manipulated by the author. If an author has to massage the rating results or comment on his own story to achieve some sort of self-inflicted ego trip, what's that say about the quality of the story and/or the author?

by your measurement then, a legitimate author should never go on a book tour or appear in television interviews.
of course i know i did it. i think its about my only revenge possible on the "1 trolls". i have no problem with that and if it gets cancelled in the sweeps, i have no problem with that, either.
i hadn't thought of leaving anonymous comments on my own stories. i'll have to think about that. do you think it would be too over the top to compare myself to proust or shakespeare?

 

[lovecraft68]

This assumes that your vote isn't based on your own sense of self worth rather than a true sense of enjoyment you got from the story.

Who knows their own mind enough to accurately judge their own words? Whose sense of self is so neutral that they can be unbiased about themselves and their deeds and actions?

No one.

I don't think anyone can look at their work and be like...you know, I really missed the mark here, I'm going to give myself a three.

 

[HisArpy]

by your measurement then, a legitimate author should never go on a book tour or appear in television interviews.
of course i know i did it. i think its about my only revenge possible on the "1 trolls". i have no problem with that and if it gets cancelled in the sweeps, i have no problem with that, either.
i hadn't thought of leaving anonymous comments on my own stories. i'll have to think about that. do you think it would be too over the top to compare myself to proust or shakespeare?

No, no no. You're taking this all wrong.

You manipulating your ratings is nothing like basking in admiration from fans. Nothing wrong with glory. OTOH, voting for yourself is like buying 10,000 copies of a book you self-published so that you'd have sales you could point to as an indicator of success.

 

[rae121452]

I am lightened up. I'm expressing my opinion. But your point sort of makes mine. Does a person's self esteem need such a boost they'd vote on their own story?

Like someone else said, you know its your vote so what's the point? The only one I could think of is narcissism over score? That or trying to equal out a troll.

BTW you might want to wipe you face. Got a little something on your chin there.

so, someone who is running for an elected office should automatically vote for the opponent or otherwise be narcissistic? trying to equal out a troll is exactly the point.

how many of your stories do you publish and then say, "gee, this is really shitty. i hope i get all 1's"?
or, how often do you read a story and think, "my story was better than that."

it would seem, from a balanced point of view, that if the moderators didn't want you to vote on your own story the ability wouldn't be in place. i have as much right to vote as anyone else, why wouldn't i?

and don't worry about my chin, babe. its not the first time something has been there.

 

[rae121452]

No, no no. You're taking this all wrong.

You manipulating your ratings is nothing like basking in admiration from fans. Nothing wrong with glory. OTOH, voting for yourself is like buying 10,000 copies of a book you self-published so that you'd have sales you could point to as an indicator of success.

in case you haven't noticed, i only have one vote. that's manipulating the ratings? and if i self publish and buy one copy of a book, i'm manipulating sales? specious reasoning.

 

[yukonnights]

I did one time to see if it would actually affect the score...it didn't budge. The truth is, one vote has little impact on a story once it's averaged with the others. Also, for several days after, I had the feeling Laurel was watching me with disappointment in her eyes

Nah, I think over worrying about scores is something newer contributors do...as the years pass by, the score becomes more of a tool to let me know if I got it right or not. (not to say there's no disappointment if one fails...and the lift congratulations from a bunch of 5's bring) More comments would help, but it would require a broad sampling to really be very useful...way more than few I get at any rate.

In the end, I'm still wondering if a thumbs up/thumbs down scoring wouldn't smooth things out a bit...say with a count for each? Thumbs down- 23 / Thumbs up- 48. The one bombs seem to be too powerful to allow in the hands of children

 

[RejectReality]

Long ago, I used to purposely vote 4 on my own stories.

Why? I was writing in Sci-Fi&Fantasy. Votes used to be much harder to come by, and that was compounded by me being new. Thus, even getting to 10 votes took days, or even weeks.

I was tickled when the first one hit 10, and suddenly appeared on the toplist with a perfect 5 score. It picked up another couple of 5s quickly from the exposure, and the other chapters picked up new readers.

Then it almost immediately got blasted with a 1. Then another. Then another. Rather heartbreaking. The exposure of the one day stint on the toplist caused another chapter to pass the 10 barrier with a perfect five. The same pattern followed.

I don't remember how many times that happened, but then one that had received a 4 hit the toplist with 10 votes at 4.90. It was reasonably well placed on the toplist, but nowhere near the top, where the other chapters had landed with perfect 5s. I waited for the inevitable 1 votes, but they didn't happen. Instead, exposure of the whole series increased. More chapters rapidly hit 10 votes, with perfect 5s, and were immediately hit with multiple 1 bombs.

So, I hit the next chapter that had 9 votes with a four of my own. It was actually one of the chapters that had previously hit with a perfect 5, was bombed, and then swept down to less than 10 votes with a perfect 5 again. It hit the toplist to the same result as the one that had arrived there with a 4.90 on its own. So I tapped the next one with 9 votes. Same results.

So then, as soon as any story posted, I hit it with a 4 right out of the gate. It kept me out of that zone of the toplist that seemed to threaten people and cause the 1 bombs, but increased the exposure of my work dramatically.

That exposure ( and joining the Laresa chain ) eventually eliminated the need to downvote my own stuff. I reached a point where I hit 10 votes quickly, and almost always had one vote of less than 5 that put me in that sweet spot naturally. Even when I didn't, I'd typically pick up that less than 5 vote before the next sweep that removed all the 1 bombs the perfect 5 caused on the toplist.

Would be pointless today, with the much larger readership Lit has, but I have zero qualms about doing so. It countered an obviously malicious strategy of toplist bombing.

That same much larger readership makes me shake my head at the characterization of voting once on your own story as invalidating the score entirely. Really? Even by the time you've reached a mere 20 votes, a single 5 barely moves the score on the average story.

4.00 becomes 4.04. Not exactly a massive change that will influence readers. 4.90 doesn't move at all, unless it's right on the edge of 4.91 already with the extra decimal places. Lower initial scores will move more, but how much is that really going to influence readers when the score is less than 4 to begin with?

Go above 20 votes, and the influence of a single 5 vote steadily declines.

About the only place it would make a difference at all is if the story is teetering on the edge of 4.50 and an H, and that single vote pushes it over the edge.

If your code forbids you from voting on your own stories, that's perfectly fine. Demonizing a single vote from the author as some sort of hanging offense ignores the reality of the actual influence it has.

Yes, I'm stressing single and once quite purposely. Multi-voting of any story for any reason crosses the line to scumbaggery, because to even do it requires finding ways around the controls put in place to prevent it.

 

[Kojak01]

i just recently discovered that i can rate my own stories. of course, they all warrant a 5!

does anyone else vote on their own stories?

If you get around 100 votes your own vote becomes static. I guess it can help to get off to a good start, rating-wise.

 

[lovecraft68]

so, someone who is running for an elected office should automatically vote for the opponent or otherwise be narcissistic? trying to equal out a troll is exactly the point.

how many of your stories do you publish and then say, "gee, this is really shitty. i hope i get all 1's"?
or, how often do you read a story and think, "my story was better than that."

it would seem, from a balanced point of view, that if the moderators didn't want you to vote on your own story the ability wouldn't be in place. i have as much right to vote as anyone else, why wouldn't i?

and don't worry about my chin, babe. its not the first time something has been there.

As I'd said there is a school of thought that author votes are removed, especially during contests which made it seem the site doesn't want it.

However, that is a school of thought not easy to prove as I noted my vote seemed to stay, but others said theirs were removed. Lit is consistently inconsistent about most things.

I would think if they really didn't want it you could install a feature which wouldn't take a vote from the account that published a story. But...lit doesn't operate like a serious minded business of any sort in any way.

The politician analogy doesn't quite line up as a political race is a big deal. Story on a free writing site? Not so much.

Your point of have I written stories and gone, wow that sucks? Could be an interesting thread discussion of its own. I don't think I've posted anything that at the time I've thought whew, smell that? That's this story.

However as time goes on I look back at some of my first years work here and cringe as the more you write the more you improve,

But I have posted stories where I've said "Yeah, this isn't one of my best, but the readers will probably like it at least for the sex. Not sure how you feel, but I don't feel all our stories are equal to each other.

 

[SimonDoom]

I see both sides of this issue. Yes, it's true that one probably can't be objective about one's own story, but that's true of most readers. Reader scores are based on all sorts of factors, and this side offers no guidelines and imposes few controls on them. That's fine -- that's the way reader reaction to stories is in the real world. Unfiltered. As long as one doesn't cast multiple votes, I don't see how voting for oneself is really a "foul."

I think Lovecraft and HisArpy take someone too stringent of a line on this issue. At the same time, I don't vote for my own stories because I want to see the score based on others' opinions. And it wouldn't make much difference anyway, in the long run.

To me, this is one of those many issues on this forum where nobody is going to convince someone on the other side, and that's fine.

 

[ElectricBlue]

As I'd said there is a school of thought that author votes are removed, especially during contests which made it seem the site doesn't want it.

However, that is a school of thought not easy to prove as I noted my vote seemed to stay, but others said theirs were removed. Lit is consistently inconsistent about most things.

I've voted on my own stories to kick start them on the front page (not in a contest story though, but then I've only ever submitted two). The vote stays - the system must remember your IP address, because the vote remains on your own page.

One vote in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant. In my mind scores are meaningless in the first 30 - 40 days anyway - it's only after they settle that they give you an idea of overall reader reaction. Before then it's grabbing eyes, so an own-vote is the same as putting an election poster up. No big deal - but remember, in Oz, everybody votes, so why wouldn't you vote for yourself?

Lovecraft did come through the era of The Great Contest Wars and the Time of the Great Cabal, so I get that for him it's different.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've voted on my own stories to kick start them on the front page (not in a contest story though, but then I've only ever submitted two). The vote stays - the system must remember your IP address, because the vote remains on your own page.

One vote in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant. In my mind scores are meaningless in the first 30 - 40 days anyway - it's only after they settle that they give you an idea of overall reader reaction. Before then it's grabbing eyes, so an own-vote is the same as putting an election poster up. No big deal - but remember, in Oz, everybody votes, so why wouldn't you vote for yourself?

Lovecraft did come through the era of The Great Contest Wars and the Time of the Great Cabal, so I get that for him it's different.

The great Cabal(shhh not supposed to talk about it) wasn't about an author voting on their own story, but an organized group gang voting and also all commenting with rave reviews to fluff the story so a totally different thing than one person voting for themselves.

I agree about a story not really settling in to where it belongs until its been out a few weeks and all the personal and category one bombers have weighed in and also all the cheerleading fans who give a 5 based on name alone.

I think the one thing I always 100% agreed with Pilot on was his analogy of the voting system here being like American idol where its not always the purest talent who was voted in, but the most popular and the show lets you vote as often as you want.

End of the day what you think of your story or what the rare good constructive comments you receive is the true measure of a story, not the stars.

I think we all start out obsessed with the stars H's and comments, but as we spend more time here we start to realize how little it means.

I'm on over 10k fav pages....know what that is worth? Less than the change I have on my desk.

 

[nosebone]

There were many good points in this thread. I voted on one of my stories once to see if the score changed. It didn't. I don't care about the scores really, but I do love the comments. If I have moved someone to write how the story touched them, or if they want to lash me for the use of the work 'Had' or commas, I'm thankful. Creative writing is not my strong suit and I could use some help. I do delete hateful ones that cross 'my' line, but I do listen to them.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The way I see it: the main point of voting is to give a way of comparing stories.

If no author ever votes on their own stories, that's fair. But if every author votes on their stories (once per story), that's also fair; every story gets one free "5".

The difference is that the first rule is more vulnerable gives an advantage to cheats, and to those who just aren't aware of the expectation. The second one doesn't.

So all in all, I think it'd be better if all authors considered themselves at liberty to vote, once, on each of their stories. In the long run it makes very little difference to the scores.

 

[SamScribble]

I'm guilty of telling a few of my friends when a new story is posted. Given that they are the people I write for (after myself), it's not unusual for them to give me a five. However, I also have a long trail of one-bombers following me around; so, for the first few days, my scores are all over the place. I'm not sure how much difference me voting would make. Time seems to be the thing that pushes the scores up. Once the 13-year-old Saturday night trolls have gone back to their video games, the 'market' generally looks after itself.