The scoring still has me confused...

[nakdsub]

My latest story had a score 4.21 with 381 votes. Now it has a score of 4.19 with 383 votes. Even if I got socked with 1*s, with that many votes already registered, I wouldn't think one vote would have that much of an affect anymore.

 

[Darkniciad]

My latest story had a score 4.21 with 381 votes. Now it has a score of 4.19 with 383 votes. Even if I got socked with 1*s, with that many votes already registered, I wouldn't think one vote would have that much of an affect anymore.

The maximum total of those two votes would be 3 ( depending upon rounding )

So, you got a two and a one. It really can have that much of an effect.

To get back up to 4.21 now, you'll have to get about 10 straight 5 votes.

Remember, any time your score is above 4.0, anything but a five drops the score.

 

[sr71plt]

Which, unfortunately, means that needing to get to a 4.5 for your story to be highlighted, is quite misleading of how the story is being responded to by readers.

 

[Darkniciad]

Need another H level, or to ditch them completely ( now that score is visible everywhere )

Even he-who-shall-not-be-named can be right by accident every once in a while. I could do without them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not quite sure how to word this post, but just going to go for it. Removing the "H" is a conversation had for the most part by those who don't score them.

This goes along with a "curve" for grades in school the kids who got an A were yelled at by the goons who couldn't get better than a c because the A blew the curve.

I think its good to have something to strive for. The problem is not the 4.5 its the cheating and trolling that can both give the inflated score, and tear down a story that has achieved it.

This goes hand and hand with something that I have come to notice recently:

No one ever thinks their story warrants a one or two vote. Every one or two must be a troll! How could it be otherwise? Could it possibly be that my work was not that good, or a particular individual just did not care for my pulitzer prize worthy porn story?

Of course not! They must be trolls dropping low scores because they're so jealous of my talents!

I mean people are so spoiled here they think a three is a low vote. By the star rating a three means "good job, keep going" yet people get mad when they get them.

Does the scoring system need a little work? Yes it does.

But taking away the H's to make the people who don't get them happy is ridiculous. Let's stop rewarding good scores because it makes the other people feel bad.

Christ, by that mentality if you're good at your job, you better start sucking at it, because the guy next to you is now feeling inadequate, and hey why not turn down that promotion you were just offered? It's not fair that you get it and the slacker/moron next to you doesn't.

So if we're going to ditch the H then their shouldn't be anymore E's doled out to people and no more Blue W's for contest winners. From now on "we're all winners!"

As Dark said that he hates to give the nameless one some credit, I am also going to eat crow when I say that when JBJ says everyone here expects a plastic trophy, he is absolutely right.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Not quite sure how to word this post, but just going to go for it. Removing the "H" is a conversation had for the most part by those who don't score them.

This goes along with a "curve" for grades in school the kids who got an A were yelled at by the goons who couldn't get better than a c because the A blew the curve.

I think its good to have something to strive for. The problem is not the 4.5 its the cheating and trolling that can both give the inflated score, and tear down a story that has achieved it.

This goes hand and hand with something that I have come to notice recently:

No one ever thinks their story warrants a one or two vote. Every one or two must be a troll! How could it be otherwise? Could it possibly be that my work was not that good, or a particular individual just did not care for my pulitzer prize worthy porn story?

Of course not! They must be trolls dropping low scores because they're so jealous of my talents!

I mean people are so spoiled here they think a three is a low vote. By the star rating a three means "good job, keep going" yet people get mad when they get them.

Does the scoring system need a little work? Yes it does.

But taking away the H's to make the people who don't get them happy is ridiculous. Let's stop rewarding good scores because it makes the other people feel bad.

Christ, by that mentality if you're good at your job, you better start sucking at it, because the guy next to you is now feeling inadequate, and hey why not turn down that promotion you were just offered? It's not fair that you get it and the slacker/moron next to you doesn't.

So if we're going to ditch the H then their shouldn't be anymore E's doled out to people and no more Blue W's for contest winners. From now on "we're all winners!"

As Dark said that he hates to give the nameless one some credit, I am also going to eat crow when I say that when JBJ says everyone here expects a plastic trophy, he is absolutely right.

Instead of eliminating the H, perhaps changing the way it is awarded. Instead of pegging it to a certain score, base it on scoring in the top 10% of a category after X number of votes. That would equalize the distribution of Hs across categories.

As we have already discussed in a previous thread, there is a huge disparity in the scores from one category to the next. This would reduce the number of Hs in Nonhuman, for example, where almost 80% of the stories seem to earn a H, and increase the number of Hs in LW, where it is nearly impossible to earn the coveted H.

Just a thought.

 

[estragon]

LC has a strong point. Anything less than a 5 is a blow to the writer's heart. And, although I can piss and moan with the best (or is it the worst?), oh! do I want a red "H".

But Dark has a point as well--even a single 3 will take away a red "H". Are there trolls malgre eux?

 

[lovecraft68]

Instead of eliminating the H, perhaps changing the way it is awarded. Instead of pegging it to a certain score, base it on scoring in the top 10% of a category after X number of votes. That would equalize the distribution of Hs across categories.

As we have already discussed in a previous thread, there is a huge disparity in the scores from one category to the next. This would reduce the number of Hs in Nonhuman, for example, where almost 80% of the stories seem to earn a H, and increase the number of Hs in LW, where it is nearly impossible to earn the coveted H.

Just a thought.

Good point. Another issue with the H is the number of votes per category and the "kindness" of the category itself. Some categories experience little trolling.

I got flamed before, but will remain stubborn and mention (seeing you brought it up) that NH is a soft voted cat. there seems to be little trolling.

I have a BDSM story up right now that is a 4.9 but it is only on 40 votes and I have not received a single 1 bomb that I can see. In incest I would get at least a dozen per story and LW well that speaks for itself.

But yes maybe some type of scale.

 

[sr71plt]

My long proposal (independent of anything Scouries thinks he originated) is to have two levels of H (hot and sweltering, perhaps). Stories 4-4.9 for one and 4.5 to 5 for the other. I haven't advocated takiing away the H. I've suggested doing what some other sites do--giving better division between the stories rated high and those that weren't. By the definitions the website gives, a 4.0 is high.

 

[lovecraft68]

My long proposal (independent of anything Scouries thinks he originated) is to have two levels of H (hot and sweltering, perhaps). Stories 4-4.9 for one and 4.5 to 5 for the other. I haven't advocated takiing away the H. I've suggested doing what some other sites do--giving better division between the stories rated high and those that weren't. By the definitions the website gives, a 4.0 is high.

It's not a bad idea.

A pink maybe then a red. For like steamy and hot or whatever.

The only hang up with it, is that then how long before someone starts with saying well my scores are 3.98's lets have a third one.

 

[alwayswantedto]

<deleted>

 

[Darkniciad]

People could make that argument, but it would be hard to get anyone to get on board with anything lower than a 4.

At this point, with scores available everywhere, the Hs are more likely just hiding a lot of good stories that are just below that level, and increasing the natural inflation caused by people back-clicking rather than voting on a story they don't like.

Just nuking them is probably the best way to go about it, although I'm hardly adverse to a second H level. That could certainly help reduce author angst and score inflation.

It could very well dilute the presence of the "H" to a point where most stories have one, and they become pointless, though.

The Es and Ws have special criteria, and are actually detrimental to score in most cases. Good for views, but typically reduce scores by people bombing them out of spite, and people attracted by the marker and genuinely dissatisfied with what's inside. They're not causing score inflation by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[lovecraft68]

People could make that argument, but it would be hard to get anyone to get on board with anything lower than a 4.

At this point, with scores available everywhere, the Hs are more likely just hiding a lot of good stories that are just below that level, and increasing the natural inflation caused by people back-clicking rather than voting on a story they don't like.

Just nuking them is probably the best way to go about it, although I'm hardly adverse to a second H level. That could certainly help reduce author angst and score inflation.

It could very well dilute the presence of the "H" to a point where most stories have one, and they become pointless, though.

The Es and Ws have special criteria, and are actually detrimental to score in most cases. Good for views, but typically reduce scores by people bombing them out of spite, and people attracted by the marker and genuinely dissatisfied with what's inside. They're not causing score inflation by any stretch of the imagination.

This depends on the reader. If a story has a good title and tag I read regardless of score.

 

[Darkniciad]

This depends on the reader. If a story has a good title and tag I read regardless of score.

You're not typical. All you have to do is look at the difference in views between a story that gets an early H on the new list and a nearly identical story ( or chapter of the same story ) that doesn't H until later in the afternoon.

A 25% increase in views is nothing unusual, and every other stat typically increases as well. This is especially evident in middle chapters that get lucky with the posting time meshing up perfectly with the New List update time. Votes and views don't typically rise in the middle of a story, and the only common denominator is that early H.

Most readers are using that easy visual cue as the first criteria for choosing a story ( beyond category )

 

[lovecraft68]

You're not typical. All you have to do is look at the difference in views between a story that gets an early H on the new list and a nearly identical story ( or chapter of the same story ) that doesn't H until later in the afternoon.

A 25% increase in views is nothing unusual, and every other stat typically increases as well. This is especially evident in middle chapters that get lucky with the posting time meshing up perfectly with the New List update time. Votes and views don't typically rise in the middle of a story, and the only common denominator is that early H.

Most readers are using that easy visual cue as the first criteria for choosing a story ( beyond category )

Yeah I guess I am not typical.

Imagine, using what I think I would like to decide what I want to read rather than using things like H's and scores and what others thought to guide me.

Sad that you are probably right

 

[alwayswantedto]

<deleted>

 

[Darkniciad]

Not sure what most readers are doing. I know I look for:
- preferred categories
- title and tag line
- red H
- favorite authors

If stories with a red h only get a 25% boost then I don't think the typical reader is primarily focusing on that criterion.

I said 25 is nothing unusual. I've seen as much as 100%+ jump in views on middle chapters, with typical increases in vote totals for the increased views.

25 is just a low-end average from what I've observed, and I'm talking about early H vs. later H. H vs. no H is an entirely different ball-o-wax. I'd say you're looking at a low end of 100% increase there ( depending upon category )

 

[alwayswantedto]

<deleted>

 

[nakdsub]

Lovercraft...

Once again, I seem to be getting insulted here. I never said I didn't think my work was so good it didn't deserve a 1 or a 2 from those who didn't like it!!!!!!!

I am asking if anyone knows the formula for scoring? Obviously, when the voting on a new story starts and the votes are minimal, each vote can affect the score in a big way, but...

when you have as many as 381 votes, a person would think a single vote or two wouldn't have a bearing on changing the score. The fact that, with 381 votes, just two more votes would drop the total score two percent points, is just mind boggling to me and I was wondering if anyone knew how this is calculated.

That's all.

 

[lovecraft68]

Once again, I seem to be getting insulted here. I never said I didn't think my work was so good it didn't deserve a 1 or a 2 from those who didn't like it!!!!!!!

I am asking if anyone knows the formula for scoring? Obviously, when the voting on a new story starts and the votes are minimal, each vote can affect the score in a big way, but...

when you have as many as 381 votes, a person would think a single vote or two wouldn't have a bearing on changing the score. The fact that, with 381 votes, just two more votes would drop the total score two percent points, is just mind boggling to me and I was wondering if anyone knew how this is calculated.

That's all.

I'm not insulting you. I'm making a general point in regards to the post about getting rid of the Red H. It had nothing to do with your score in particular. And that is a glitch in the system that it takes 10 5's to out do a one bomb or two.

Not attacking you, I just think they should hold onto the H or something similar but find a better way.

I, like you have one that has 470 votes I saw it get about 8 votes and finally go up a point. the next day I had gained a vote and dropped that point immediately it does not seem fair, but hard to see what they can do.

 

[nakdsub]

Let's see...

This goes hand and hand with something that I have come to notice recently:

No one ever thinks their story warrants a one or two vote. Every one or two must be a troll! How could it be otherwise? Could it possibly be that my work was not that good, or a particular individual just did not care for my pulitzer prize worthy porn story?

Of course not! They must be trolls dropping low scores because they're so jealous of my talents!

I mean people are so spoiled here they think a three is a low vote. By the star rating a three means "good job, keep going" yet people get mad when they get them.

Does the scoring system need a little work? Yes it does.

\QUOTE]

Well, sorry if I misconstrued, but it sure looks like a slam to me.

 

[scouries]

when you have as many as 381 votes, a person would think a single vote or two wouldn't have a bearing on changing the score. The fact that, with 381 votes, just two more votes would drop the total score two percent points, is just mind boggling to me and I was wondering if anyone knew how this is calculated.

That's all.

http://blog.ivman.com/wp-content/MathHelp.jpg

Pal if you ask a question you should at least read the answers.

True db's math sometimes seems to be based on some non-huuman system but in this case I'd advise you reread post #2 before you ask the same question a third time.

However your suggestion in your latest post that going from 4.21 to 4.19 is a 2% drop leads me to believe that you'd be better off taking a remedial math course.​

 

[Darkniciad]

I'm not insulting you. I'm making a general point in regards to the post about getting rid of the Red H. It had nothing to do with your score in particular. And that is a glitch in the system that it takes 10 5's to out do a one bomb or two.

Not attacking you, I just think they should hold onto the H or something similar but find a better way.

I, like you have one that has 470 votes I saw it get about 8 votes and finally go up a point. the next day I had gained a vote and dropped that point immediately it does not seem fair, but hard to see what they can do.

Uhm... It's not a glitch - it's math.

381 x 4.21 = 1604.01

1604.01 + 1 + 2 = 1607.01 ( Add a vote of one and a vote of two )

1607.01 / 383 = 4.1958

As to why 1s and 2s are considered troll votes - this question comes up all the time. Very few people ever answer that they vote below 3, but instead, back-click. Even if you assume there's plenty of lying going on, there's probably a reason for that lying - and it's probably malicious voting of 3 or below. Otherwise, people would admit to it, saying they use the full range of the voting scale, as some do.

Then there's the fact that large chunks of these 1s and 2s are accompanied by poorly-spelled rants full of death threats and personal insults.

There's no real surprise that votes below 3 are considered troll votes. All the evidence points toward most of them being exactly that.

And then there's this post. You jump all over people for calling 1s and 2s troll votes, then turn right around and say it isn't fair that those same votes can drop your score so much, and that Lit should find a better way to calculate it.

At least, I would be confused if I didn't know you were just trying to stir shit for entertainment.

 

[scouries]

Instead of eliminating the H, perhaps changing the way it is awarded. Instead of pegging it to a certain score, base it on scoring in the top 10% of a category after X number of votes. That would equalize the distribution of Hs across categories.

While I still believe simply eliminating the H is the best solution since every stories score is now in the public domain the above is at least a credible alternative. I think the first I've heard in 5 years.

And if we want to do away with the effect db talks about another alternative is simply not to award red H's on the NEW STORY page. Make stories wait a week before they qualify for one. This would stop the ridiculous ballot box stuffing that many authors practice during the first hours their story is up.​

 

[nakdsub]

My appreciation to Darkniciad...

For being the person to actually answer my question. A sincere, Thank You.
When I posted this I wasn't asking for a debate on using or not using, "H"s. I wasn't looking for my work to be critiqued, or to be scoffed at, I was simply asking if someone knew the formula by which stories are scored.
In a clear concise way, Darkniciad answered my question, (and get this) with out malice.
Once again,
Thank you.