The Scoop on the Over-18 Thing

[Eve_of_destruction]

I am posting this in two other categories, so I appologize in advance to any who stumble onto this thread more than once.

The question of why we cannot publish stories featuring anyone under the age of 18 pops up every so often, and I'm sure Laurel and Manu get exasperated having to hear it dredged up ad nauseum.

The answer: IT'S THE LAW! Or rather, it's the law in only 8 STATES! It is illegal to have sex with anyone under the age of 17 in 7 states, and all the rest of us feel it's okay anywhere from age 14 to 16.

See how your state feels about this at http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

All of you who live in one of those states and want to write a story with an underage character in it, instead of writing Laurel and Manu, write to your congressman and your senators and ask that the age be lowered. It couldn't hurt anything...

EOD

 

[The_old_man]

Clinton's crine aganst humanity law:




WE LOCATED THE ACTUAL LAW:

Sec. 2423. Transportation of minors

(a) Transportation With Intent To Engage in Criminal Sexual Activity. - A person who knowingly transports any individual under the age of 18 years in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with intent that such individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(b) Travel With Intent To Engage in Sexual Act With a Juvenile. - A person who travels in interstate commerce, or conspires to do so, or a United States citizen or an alien admitted for permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign commerce, or conspires to do so, for the purpose of engaging in any sexual act (as defined in section 2246) with a person under 18 years of age that would be in violation of chapter 109A if the sexual act occurred in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.



He should have been convicted!

 

[TheWriter]

This may sound stupid, but isn't also illegal to rape? Are'nt adultery, and incest illegal as well? I may be wrong, but isn't sodomy illegal in some states in the U.S.? There are categories and stories on Literotica that are illegal and are, arguably, just as - if not more so - disgusting than sex with minors.

 

[Laurel]

I've always believed that words are just words. I don't put fiction in the same class as reality - if it was, then war novels and murder mysteries would be appalling. I've also been a teen, and know that teens are sexual beings. We're not saying that no one under 18 has ever had any sexual thoughts. We know that most people lose their virginity under the age of 18. I know I did.

I know it's an inconvenience for writers at times, but I want you to know that our over-18 policy is not born out of some moral nor legal standard (though we are staunchly against pedophilia). No matter where we draw the line, there will be people who think it unfair. However, as we are not ready to publish stories involving children, we must draw a line. Minors in the US are those under the age of 18, so that's the safest line to draw. If we were in GB, the age would probably be 16...and those in countries where 12 is the legal age of consent might find THAT constraining.

Here in the US, the age issue is a touchier deal than rape or anything else. Technically, fiction featuring under age sex is perfectly legal - as is fiction which features murder or rape - but those currently "in power" would like to make such fiction (as well as all adult material) illegal. A man was recently put in jail for writing fictitious stories about underage children IN HIS PRIVATE JOURNAL. The man was on parole, but it still sets a very bad legal precedent. Like I said, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere, and 18 just makes the most sense for us in many ways.

That said, we have no problem with writers of such stories or sites that publish such stories. It's just not something we publish. There are sites that won't publish incest. There are sites that feel comfortable publishing a wider variety of fiction. Asstr.org, I think, will accept underage, and White Shadow does as well.

If you ever have any questions regarding this or anything else in the submission guidelines or any part of the site, please drop me a PM or an email or start a thread here.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

This may sound stupid, but isn't also illegal to rape? Are'nt adultery, and incest illegal as well? I may be wrong, but isn't sodomy illegal in some states in the U.S.? There are categories and stories on Literotica that are illegal and are, arguably, just as - if not more so - disgusting than sex with minors.

Yup, rape is illegal in all western countries but that is not the same as Lit's 'non consent/ reluctance category.

In the US, the Supreme Court struck down all Federal sodomy laws in 2003. Bring on Anal.

Incest is complicated and made more so by the welcome introduction of Gay Marriage. I can bed my sister but can't marry her even though we're a bit short of chromosomes. Why can Gay men marry but not if they are related.

Are they going to have babies?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I've always believed that words are just words. I don't put fiction in the same class as reality - if it was, then war novels and murder mysteries would be appalling. I've also been a teen, and know that teens are sexual beings. We're not saying that no one under 18 has ever had any sexual thoughts. We know that most people lose their virginity under the age of 18. I know I did.

I know it's an inconvenience for writers at times, but I want you to know that our over-18 policy is not born out of some moral nor legal standard (though we are staunchly against pedophilia). No matter where we draw the line, there will be people who think it unfair. However, as we are not ready to publish stories involving children, we must draw a line. Minors in the US are those under the age of 18, so that's the safest line to draw. If we were in GB, the age would probably be 16...and those in countries where 12 is the legal age of consent might find THAT constraining.

Here in the US, the age issue is a touchier deal than rape or anything else. Technically, fiction featuring under age sex is perfectly legal - as is fiction which features murder or rape - but those currently "in power" would like to make such fiction (as well as all adult material) illegal. A man was recently put in jail for writing fictitious stories about underage children IN HIS PRIVATE JOURNAL. The man was on parole, but it still sets a very bad legal precedent. Like I said, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere, and 18 just makes the most sense for us in many ways.

That said, we have no problem with writers of such stories or sites that publish such stories. It's just not something we publish. There are sites that won't publish incest. There are sites that feel comfortable publishing a wider variety of fiction. Asstr.org, I think, will accept underage, and White Shadow does as well.

If you ever have any questions regarding this or anything else in the submission guidelines or any part of the site, please drop me a PM or an email or start a thread here.

Thanks for that L. I thought I had read that the over-18 rule was to bring the site in line with the requirements of porn movies. Still, I concur with your view. Just to add; if you conflate all this with the many different ages for legal marriage, can you write about a seventeen-year-old married couple in Virginia?

 

[litmlove]

I am posting this in two other categories, so I appologize in advance to any who stumble onto this thread more than once.

The question of why we cannot publish stories featuring anyone under the age of 18 pops up every so often, and I'm sure Laurel and Manu get exasperated having to hear it dredged up ad nauseum.

The answer: IT'S THE LAW! Or rather, it's the law in only 8 STATES! It is illegal to have sex with anyone under the age of 17 in 7 states, and all the rest of us feel it's okay anywhere from age 14 to 16.

See how your state feels about this at http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

All of you who live in one of those states and want to write a story with an underage character in it, instead of writing Laurel and Manu, write to your congressman and your senators and ask that the age be lowered. It couldn't hurt anything...

EOD

Nice sleuthing Eve_of_destruction, but you are incorrect (or to be precise - not completely correct).

In the real world it is illegal to have sexual relations with a minor whether 17 years old , 16 years old or whatever, but it may not be illegal to depict sexual relations in fiction with the same minor. Maybe you could look this up for the states you found? I assume your American 1st amendment right is serious about allowing anyone to say "anything" they want (even if promoting pedophilia).

In any case the legality doesn't matter because the owners of Literotica do not want to be associated with anything under 18 years old. Just because the law allows it (or maybe it doesn't?), it doesn't mean Literotica has to tolerate it.

 

[lovecraft68]

When is it going to get through people's heads that the under age rule here has nothing at all to do with what is legal anywhere in the US or the rest of the world?

Laurel does not want under age stories here....that is it, period, finito...It does not matter if some pedo riddled state has 14 as age of consent because the lawmakers there want to fuck children.

It doesn't matter what goes on in third world countries where girls are sold off at 12...

No one has ever said under 18 sex is illegal and no one has ever said it is "illegal" to write it in fiction.

But

This is a privately owned business and what she decides she decides.

I find it disturbing that so many people want to write under age sex that this debate never seems to end.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

What?

How is Incest complicated by gay marriage? The same laws and taboos apply among same sex incest as any other incest. Gayness has nothing to do with incest.

Gay men can marry but not if they are related, like everyone else.

Incest is complicated and made more so by the welcome introduction of Gay Marriage. I can bed my sister but can't marry her even though we're a bit short of chromosomes. Why can Gay men marry but not if they are related.

Are they going to have babies?

 

[lovecraft68]

What?

How is Incest complicated by gay marriage? The same laws and taboos apply among same sex incest as any other incest. Gayness has nothing to do with incest.

Gay men can marry but not if they are related, like everyone else.

Elfin just replied to a 14 year old thread....so take anything she comes out with, with a grain of salt.

 

[RejectReality]

Crikey...

This thread had a merciful end back in 2001, and it was already linked from the currently running thread on the subject.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Whoops, didnt see that at first

Crikey...


This thread had a merciful end back in 2001, and it was already linked from the currently running thread on the subject.

 

[litmlove]

Elfin just replied to a 14 year old thread....so take anything she comes out with, with a grain of salt.

LOL, I didn't notice. That's some quality necro Elfin.

Gay men can marry but not if they are related, like everyone else.

Wow, that's a fascinating topic. If marriage is no longer about Christian ideals of procreation & children, then why can't gay cousins marry? I hope someone takes this issue to the Supreme Court of the United States. That case is bound to be fun on the 24hours news.

 

[Hypoxia]

LOL, I didn't notice. That's some quality necro Elfin.

14 years may be a record here.

Wow, that's a fascinating topic. If marriage is no longer about Christian ideals of procreation & children, then why can't gay cousins marry? I hope someone takes this issue to the Supreme Court of the United States. That case is bound to be fun on the 24hours news.

In USA, many states permit 1st-cousin marriage and many states now permit gay marriage. Draw a Venn diagram and show the intersection. Voila! Married gay cousins!

Cousin marriage: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, (not Arkansas!), California, Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Florida, Georgia, Hawai'i, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin.

Same-sex marriage: A majority of states now. I'm too lazy to type all the names. Click the link and see for yourself. I eyeball the map and see gay cousins eligible in Alaska, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota, Hawai'i, Illinois, Florida, both Carolinas, DC, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island (LC68 has his chance), and Vermont.

Anyway, marriage in USA and elsewhere has never been exclusively about "Christian ideals of procreation & children". If it were, non-Xians and infertile couples would be forced to separate. Over human history, marriage has been mostly about position and power, about cementing inter-family relationships. What's love got to do with it?

 

[sr71plt]

When is it going to get through people's heads that the under age rule here has nothing at all to do with what is legal anywhere in the US or the rest of the world?

This. This. This. The laws of what you can/can't do in action don't apply to what you can write in fiction. There are some other laws that restrict a bit what you can write in fiction, but they are entirely different laws from how old somehow has to be who you have sex with or how distantly they have to be related--or even if you can torture them to death. And beyond that, the laws of what you can write don't apply to what someone has to put on a Web site they own.

Much of this thread is simply irrelevant to the point.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

This. This. This. The laws of what you can/can't do in action don't apply to what you can write in fiction. There are some other laws that restrict a bit what you can write in fiction, but they are entirely different laws from how old somehow has to be who you have sex with or how distantly they have to be related--or even if you can torture them to death. And beyond that, the laws of what you can write don't apply to what someone has to put on a Web site they own.

Much of this thread is simply irrelevant to the point.

People want a logical explanation, and then they want to debate the merits of the logic. The explanation that the site owner drew a line based on her personal comfort level is unacceptable to the uninitiated.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Logical explanation...

Laurel: "My site, my rules."

Some Authors: "Whine, whine, whine, whine..."

Other Authors to Some Authors: "Shut the fuck up. Follow the rules or go build a site of your own."

 

[Handley_Page]

Logical explanation...

Laurel: "My site, my rules."

Some Authors: "Whine, whine, whine, whine..."

Other Authors to Some Authors: "Shut the fuck up. Follow the rules or go build a site of your own."

Here Here
It's her train-set, after all.