The rhetoric of the minimum wage

[Ishmael]

The Democrats are going to give Americans a 'raise.'

Really?

I didn't now the america worked for the Democratic party. Or maybe they just think we do. Either way rather pompous rhetoric.

Anyone want to make some wagers on the unemployment rate starting to creep up and how long it will take?

Ishmael

 

[veryblueeyes]

My curiosity is if the COL is going to rise with the rise of minimum wage? Therefore will make unemployment rise.

You actually have a point with your statement.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

No, here's the beauty of it.

You couple it with a voluntary amnesty and nix border control. You also listen to K-Street and refuse to go after employers. This way, you raise union wages AND you keep cheap labor squeezing out the mythical head of household trying to get by on the minimum wage...

Which is the erection moment for the Liberals as they see need for massive new aid programs for those getting squeezed out which will be paid by "soaking" the rich which makes the Middle Class happy as the wealth gap obstensibly decreases!

THEY KILLED IGOR'S GOAT!
Oh happy days!
THEY KILLED IGOR'S GOAT!

 

[Lavared]

Will minimum wage also increase for the people who are being paid under the table?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

My curiosity is if the COL is going to rise with the rise of minimum wage? Therefore will make unemployment rise.

You actually have a point with your statement.

Yes, because mosat union contracts call for an immediate pay increase because they're not about to let burger flippers get anywhere near "professional" wages.

If I am an employer and I am forced to pay skilled wage rates, why would I hire the unskilled?

Especially when I can hire illegals under the table with no fear of consequence and no limit to the supply...

 

[veryblueeyes]

Hey there.

Would not affect, as there is not a minimum wage.

I do still wonder about the COL.

*edit* oops I posted before your response, AJ.

 

[Gord]

Labour introduced a minimum wage here about 5 years ago - everyone said that it would drive up the unemployment numbers as companies would not be able to afford to take on staff

Infact the opposite has happened - employment is at its highest it has ever been today in the UK


I think the key is what level you set the min wage - it really is to try and protect the lowest wage earners in the country - in reality the min wage is still very low but means that companies cant totaly expoit those who are at the bottom of the heap

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Will minimum wage also increase for the people who are being paid under the table?

In most circumstances (and because of my anti-government leanings, this is me) people being paid under the table, like burger-flippers, are already getting more than the minimum wage.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Labour introduced a minimum wage here about 5 years ago - everyone said that it would drive up the unemployment numbers as companies would not be able to afford to take on staff

Infact the opposite has happened - employment is at its highest it has ever been today in the UK


I think the key is what level you set the min wage - it really is to try and protect the lowest wage earners in the country - in reality the min wage is still very low but means that companies cant totaly expoit those who are at the bottom of the heap

I call bullshit because of how languid your economies already are compared to ours. We don't want to end up like France and have a special problem you don't have to deal with as 1/7th of Mexico hasn't swum ashore to take the jobs the English won't do.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Hey there.

Would not affect, as there is not a minimum wage.

I do still wonder about the COL.

*edit* oops I posted before your response, AJ.

As I outlined above, under the plans the Democrats have been touting for their first 100 days, the cost of living is yes going to go up. They intend to get the rich as promised and we all know who the rich "get."

Same as it ever was...

 

[Gord]

I call bullshit because of how languid your economies already are compared to ours. We don't want to end up like France and have a special problem; you don't have to deal with as 1/7th of Mexico hasn't swum ashore to take the jobs the English won't do.

AJ

little geography lesson - France is not the same as the UK - there is a sea called the channel and we have different goverment and different language etc etc

The UK economy is not the same as France in the same way as US is not the same as Canadas

The UK does have immigration issues as well from Eastern European countries like Romania / Poland / Bulgaria etc - and in some industries like construction it has driven down day rates

I was just making the comment that the min wage did not have some massive affect on the unemployement rate


I would also take issue with you on the respective languid economies between US/Europe

Germany on its own has greater exports than the US - that is one country out of 26

 

[veryblueeyes]

As I outlined above, under the plans the Democrats have been touting for their first 100 days, the cost of living is yes going to go up. They intend to get the rich as promised and we all know who the rich "get."

Same as it ever was...

I should know not to get involved in political threads.

 

[Ishmael]

Hey there.

Would not affect, as there is not a minimum wage.

I do still wonder about the COL.

*edit* oops I posted before your response, AJ.

It's a net wash. And it does effect the COL.

Simple economics. I'm not about to pay someone $7/hr. that is only returning $5/hr. worth of labor. To do so would put me out of business. Not a question of if, merely when. So I have two choices to make. I can reduce my staff (labor overhead) and squeeze more productivity out of the existing employees, or I can raise my prices. Or a combination of the two.

Regardless, the net effect of a raise in the minimum wage is BOTH a slow down in hiring AND price increase. Most companies will opt for a combination of smaller staff and higher prices. For those companies/enterprises that are labor intensive, only a price hike saves the business.

On the day of the last staged hike in the minimum wage I was in a 7-11 buying a hot dog. The price of the hot dog had been raised, by mere coincidence that very day, by 20 cents. I asked the clerk if she was going to enjoy her new raise and she replied that she was VERY happy about it. And I'm sure she was until I pointed out that every price in the store had taken an 'up tick' and that she was going to find the same at the local grocery store, etc. And sure enough, all the items on the shelves had moved up in price a notch.

The nut of it is that the cumulative price hike was first applied to those goods most sensitive to labor costs and those goods tend to be those goods that effect the out of pocket costs of the very people the minimum wage hike was supposed to help. Net gain? Zero.

Ishmael

 

[ksmybuttons]

Hmmm. I'm sure anything over the $5.15 an hour is going to break the bank...of course, who can live on $5.15 an hour? Rent an apartment? Eat?

If you're lucky enough to work 40 hours a week, that's a whopping $206 per week, or 10,712 a year before mandatory taxes! That's almost $1000 over the poverty guidelines for one!

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

You can take all the exception you want.

Who are the Democrats claiming they are helping?

The families who are trying to make it on minimum wage.

But, here's the tell, they really can't produce any hard numbers on families being raised on minimum wage because it is a myth. If I am running a minimum wage shop and government forces my prices up, I pass it on or I become more productive (force fewer minimum wage employees to do the same work). Now, if everyone starts passing on the costs, then purchasing power goes down (unless you print money and cause inflation) and employers get less income which is going to fall on the backs of the labor force.

What you haven't addressed is, were your other labor contracts based on the minmum wage?

What are your unemployment stats, not your trade stats? Ours is under 5%, what is yours?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Hmmm. I'm sure anything over the $5.15 an hour is going to break the bank...of course, who can live on $5.15 an hour? Rent an apartment? Eat?

If you're lucky enough to work 40 hours a week, that's a whopping $206 per week, or 10,712 a year before mandatory taxes! That's almost $1000 over the poverty guidelines for one!

Stats show that it's mainly teens working for minimum wage or new hires who quickly move up (go put in some applications and find out if anyone is actually starting that low).

I know Mickey Dee's isn't!

 

[Myrrdin]

I call bullshit because of how languid your economies already are compared to ours.

If our economy is so languid explain why our pound will now buy 1.97 republican dollars.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Stats show that it's mainly teens working for minimum wage or new hires who quickly move up (go put in some applications and find out if anyone is actually starting that low).

I know Mickey Dee's isn't!

Then what's the problem?

 

[veryblueeyes]

Stats show that it's mainly teens working for minimum wage or new hires who quickly move up (go put in some applications and find out if anyone is actually starting that low).

I know Mickey Dee's isn't!

I call bullshit. No offense to you, but have to be shitting me.

 

[Ishmael]

Hmmm. I'm sure anything over the $5.15 an hour is going to break the bank...of course, who can live on $5.15 an hour? Rent an apartment? Eat?

If you're lucky enough to work 40 hours a week, that's a whopping $206 per week, or 10,712 a year before mandatory taxes! That's almost $1000 over the poverty guidelines for one!

Bought into this whole "living wage" BS huh KSMY? It's a myth. No one expects anyone to raise a family on mimimum wages except some really stupid Democrats. Minimum wage is a starting wage for the unskilled, the transient worker, and the second wage earner. It was never intended to be a 'living wage' nor should it be.

When you get right down to it, it's the government giving itself a raise by raising the revenues collected by the most repressive tax of all, the payroll tax.

Ishmael

 

[Gord]

You can take all the exception you want.

Who are the Democrats claiming they are helping?

The families who are trying to make it on minimum wage.

But, here's the tell, they really can't produce any hard numbers on families being raised on minimum wage because it is a myth. If I am running a minimum wage shop and government forces my prices up, I pass it on or I become more productive (force fewer minimum wage employees to do the same work). Now, if everyone starts passing on the costs, then purchasing power goes down (unless you print money and cause inflation) and employers get less income which is going to fall on the backs of the labor force.

What you haven't addressed is, were your other labor contracts based on the minmum wage?

What are your unemployment stats, not your trade stats? Ours is under 5%, what is yours?

Uk is about 4.7% at the moment - about the same as yours

Europe on the whole is running at about 9.9%

 

[RightField]

Stats show that it's mainly teens working for minimum wage or new hires who quickly move up (go put in some applications and find out if anyone is actually starting that low).

I know Mickey Dee's isn't!

In DC they like to cite the fact that there's a large number of working families with heads of households making minimum wage. Something about it smells fishy and I haven't yet taken the time to research it.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I call bullshit. No offense to you, but have to be shitting me.

What's that Canadian M?



Then it should be easy to prove me wrong, that this is no more than "feel good" legislation and a reward to the unions.

First challenge: Find employers who pay minimum wage.
Second challenge: Find employees trying to raise a family on minimum wage.

Give me some numbers that are real and I will change my mind.

I tried to make a living during the Ford and Carter Administrations and I see NO REASON to start monkeying with what is working! How did your portfolio do over the last year?

 

[RightField]

Uk is about 4.7% at the moment - about the same as yours

Europe on the whole is running at about 9.9%

UK and Irish economies are doing very well. They're mavericks not following all of the EU mandates which is actually helping their economy quite a bit.

 

[Ishmael]

I call bullshit. No offense to you, but have to be shitting me.

He's not shitting you at all.

The minimum wage worker

Ishmael