The Rejector - A Useful Blog for Would-Be's

[dr_mabeuse]

Stumbled across this blog as I was trying to find some information on standards for chapter lengths in fiction. It's written by an assistant literary agent, and she talks about the business and mechanics of publishing and getting published in a plain and refreshing way.

I am an assistant at a literary agency. I am the first line of defense for my boss. On average, I reject 95% of the letters immediately and put the other 5% in the "maybe" pile. Here, I'll talk about my work.[...]

Here's an excerpt from a 2011 post concerning self-publishing, just as a sample:

What does the future hold for publishing? Self-published authors insist they are the future, and that the big houses will be crushed under the weight of the awesomeness that is their 400,000 word fantasy novel that's the 1st in a trilogy that was rejected last year. I can't imagine this is so. The publishing industry provides an essential service to the book industry: it separates the wheat from the chaff, finds good material, pays authors for it, then edits it and produces it in a neat little package for the consumer. Doing this without the help of the publishing industry is actually tremendously time consuming and generally difficult. Sure, sometimes publishers miss big hits (especially since they're currently so unwilling to buy anything), but most times when they reject something, there's a good reason for it. The same goes for agents.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thanks Elliott.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Doing this without the help of the publishing industry is actually tremendously time consuming and generally difficult.

Translation;

Waaaah, you're taking my job away from meee...

 

[lovecraft68]

What she is not saying is that what self publishing does is strip the power away from the power hungry ego maniacs who decide what should and should not be out there.

How many amazing books have been tossed aside by a few people who think they know what the world wants to read?

Now the world can read anything someone wants to write. Granted a lot of it may suck, but everyone has different tastes and now there is more variety out there.

Most importantly a bunch of offices filled with paper assholes, many of which have never written more than an e-mail themselves, are no longer decideing the market.

 

[wet_special]

What she is not saying is that what self publishing does is strip the power away from the power hungry ego maniacs who decide what should and should not be out there.

How many amazing books have been tossed aside by a few people who think they know what the world wants to read?

Now the world can read anything someone wants to write. Granted a lot of it may suck, but everyone has different tastes and now there is more variety out there.

Most importantly a bunch of offices filled with paper assholes, many of which have never written more than an e-mail themselves, are no longer decideing the market.

Tell them how you really feel.

I agree, let the market decide I always say.

 

[colddiesel]

What she is not saying is that what self publishing does is strip the power away from the power hungry ego maniacs who decide what should and should not be out there.

How many amazing books have been tossed aside by a few people who think they know what the world wants to read?

.

Translation: Lovecraft has been rejected by every publisher he has submitted anything to.

This publisher is doing a good job.

 

[JackLuis]

There is a whole different culture between Actual paper books and the virtuality of an E-Book.

E-Books have liberated the masses to explore their creativity and reach a huge audience, and if 2% of the read it it's still 20,000 exposure to your deathless prose, or furious humping.

She is selecting in order to find something that is worth investing $20 grand in and wants to maximize the profit for the publisher. The cost of entry for E-Books is much lower so there will be room for all kinds of stories.

 

[lovecraft68]

Translation: Lovecraft has been rejected by every publisher he has submitted anything to.

This publisher is doing a good job.

Translation, Lovecraft is yet to submit anything to a publisher.

In the e-market I have no desire to hand off a percentage of sales to someone for no reason other than to say I have a publisher.

This is smoke, the "real" publishers are trying to convince people they need them. They no longer do. As soon as the e-market blew up there profits have been down.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Translation, Lovecraft is yet to submit anything to a publisher.

In the e-market I have no desire to hand off a percentage of sales to someone for no reason other than to say I have a publisher.

This is smoke, the "real" publishers are trying to convince people they need them. They no longer do. As soon as the e-market blew up there profits have been down.

Why buy a cow when milk is free at LIT.

 

[lovecraft68]

Why buy a cow when milk is free at LIT.

I have other material out there than what is on lit.

As do you, supposedly

 

[Ironiclaconic]

Much of what publishers do is becoming obsolete but there is still a need for vetting. The big question about epublishing is determining who has to read through 10000 crappy novels to find the next Jonathan Franzen. If it isn't going to be the publishing houses who will it be?

I am pretty sure something will arise but I don't know what it is. 50 Shades of Grey provides one model, and Lit provides another but there needs to be a route for authors who don't want to write fanfic or porn.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the e-market is creating a vetting process in itself for Publishers. If they see something catching a huge buzz they can approach the author and offer to put it into print.

Even so POD book companies like createspace are cutting into that as well.

If you believe in your work and are willing to invest somewhere around $1500 to make your dream come true you can have a print book and they will market it on Amazon and other sites for you. Then you publish your e-version yourself for no cost other than your cover (which you already have from the print book) and you're hitting both markets.

What is being overlooked here is "The Dream" publishers and pro writers of course look at dollars and cents. They have to its their living.

But for amateur writers like here and sites all over the net. E-publishing and POD books give us a chance to "write a book" to fulfill a dream or goal. To be able to proudly say "I've published something"

For many their writing is an outlet from their so-so job and hamster in a wheel existence. It gives them something to be proud of. Whether it is good or not is subjective, but they can feel a sense of accomplishment.

Publishers don't want that. Think of them as that wealthy 2% who run this country they want all the say all the money. They want you to think they are superior.

This is why I get annoyed when the so-called "Pros" show up here and bash and demean peoples work.

They think they're strutting their stuff when what they are doing is simply stepping on people's dreams and mocking their accomplishments.

In reality all they are doing is proving themselves as the insecure whiny little people they are. They are pissed because they think they did it "The right way" and now all these "Hacks" are making money.

I know for certain that a couple of things I posted on the Big A last month out sold some of the professional authors here. Not saying my stuff is better, but talk about a nice level playing field, which at the end of the day is what the publishers really fear.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVE BOAT

Ah, youre our T-Ball hero. Trophies and high-5s all around!

I remember Wild Bill Byers, my high school drafting teacher. I was born with some talent for drawing, and thought I was hot shit. Byers graded my first project, "Mongahela Brown Fish." I says, WHATS A MONGAHELA BROWN FISH? and Byers says, A PIECE OF SHIT. It took a full year to progress from brown fish to "C." At the end of the 2nd year I got B's; and at graduation I was doing a few A's.

Any two errors was a letter grade drop. My handwriting still looks like machine print.

My point is, 99% of stories are shit in a bag. A reach-around may be your idea of paradise, but it doesnt improve your craft.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOVE BOAT

Ah, youre our T-Ball hero. Trophies and high-5s all around!

I remember Wild Bill Byers, my high school drafting teacher. I was born with some talent for drawing, and thought I was hot shit. Byers graded my first project, "Mongahela Brown Fish." I says, WHATS A MONGAHELA BROWN FISH? and Byers says, A PIECE OF SHIT. It took a full year to progress from brown fish to "C." At the end of the 2nd year I got B's; and at graduation I was doing a few A's.

Any two errors was a letter grade drop. My handwriting still looks like machine print.

My point is, 99% of stories are shit in a bag. A reach-around may be your idea of paradise, but it doesnt improve your craft.

And I am sure that your teacher was the only person qualified to judge your work?

Teachers like Police are power hungry ego trippers.

The problem with publishers is one, sheer time to look through manuscripts and two, being objective. If a manuscript is not to their liking its see you later. Maybe they had a fight with their other half and everything they look at that day "sucks"

I am willing to wager that better works than what is on the best sellers list has been left lying on the floor.

King's Carrie was rejected how many times? Guess those people knew a hit when they saw it didn't they?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

...

But for amateur writers like here and sites all over the net. E-publishing and POD books give us a chance to "write a book" to fulfill a dream or goal. To be able to proudly say "I've published something"

...

No, you're allowed to say, "I've SELF-published something. On the internet."

If that's your dream or goal, then have at it. It's really not very hard to achieve.

Me, when I buy socks, I go to a store where I know the socks have been vetted and examined. I don't go to a big rag pile and start pulling out crap in the hopes of finding something worth wearing. But that's just me.

Yes, getting accepted by a publisher is hard. But it's not because publishers are some tyrannical elite with a stranglehold on power looking to grind us literary geniuses under their jackbooted heel. It's hard because publishers and agents put their own money and reputation behind your book, and they're not going to back crap. And because, like she says, 95% of what's sent to them is crap.

 

[lance gt]

It's always the hardest thing for a writer to do....admit their work is crap.

All of us write a story and look at it, edit it, tweak it to the best we can make it, but to an educated editor and publisher, it's still crap. We get H's and scores here, but they mean nothing in the real world, when it comes to spending money on them.

Me, I think I'm good enough now, that my stories are worth sending in and an editor taking the time to look at them. I have no wild expectations I'll get told anything more than, 'Very good, Lance, now re-write it and send it back to me.'

 

[lovecraft68]

No, you're allowed to say, "I've SELF-published something. On the internet."

If that's your dream or goal, then have at it. It's really not very hard to achieve.

Me, when I buy socks, I go to a store where I know the socks have been vetted and examined. I don't go to a big rag pile and start pulling out crap in the hopes of finding something worth wearing. But that's just me.

Yes, getting accepted by a publisher is hard. But it's not because publishers are some tyrannical elite with a stranglehold on power looking to grind us literary geniuses under their jackbooted heel. It's hard because publishers and agents put their own money and reputation behind your book, and they're not going to back crap. And because, like she says, 95% of what's sent to them is crap.

True, but I've read some pretty decent things from the "rag pile" and that's what its all about right? Writing is entertaining people.

Self publishing means that people can find more to their liking. Especially in erotica which is what most here write.

I look at this from as a consumer more than an author. I love having more to choose from than what these people deem as good.

Remember Lovecraft, whose influence has never been stronger, died a pauper because the pulps were busy putting Tarzan rip offs in their books rather than a lot of his work. Now Cthulhu's practically a household name. And like my Carrie example to JB, a handful of people deciding what is "good" is ridiculous.

As a reader I want to decide what's good. When you go shopping you want to see one choice or many?

Bottom line is the publishers feel threatened and rightly so. So now more than ever it is shoved down people's throats about how important they are.

 

[lance gt]

True, but I've read some pretty decent things from the "rag pile" and that's what its all about right? Writing is entertaining people.

Self publishing means that people can find more to their liking. Especially in erotica which is what most here write.

I look at this from a consumer more than an author. I love having more to choose from than what these people dream as good.

Remember Lovecraft, whose influence has never been stronger, died a pauper because the pulps were busy putting Tarzan rip offs in their books rather than a lot of his work. Now Cthulhu's practically a household name. And like my Carrie example to JB, a handful of people deciding what is "good" is ridiculous.

As a reader I want to decide what's good. When you go shopping you want to see one choice or many?

Bottom line is the publishers feel threatened and rightly so. So now more than ever it is shoved down people's throats about how important they are.

With that, I have to agree. Publishers are like DJ's playing new songs. They get bribed and paid off to publish things they normally wouldn't. They decide what is good and will sell and market it to death to get people to believe it's a great story. Like DJ's they'll play it to death, as long as money is going in their pockets.

With the advent of Ebooks, publishers no longer have the control over stories as they once did and now have to accept genres they once refused. Sites like Lit. have spawned a new breed of reader, who want stories written in genres not covered by big houses. Writers can submit work that would normally be rejected by publishers and garner a following despite the lack of promotion.

Getting published is hard, but sites are springing up to cater to writers who are rejected by them and given a chance to show their work. I have friends who buy Ebooks galore, because they're $.99 and never read the story. Those writers still get their royalties of 70%, although it's hard to build a following if you're not read and reviewed.

 

[lovecraft68]

With that, I have to agree. Publishers are like DJ's playing new songs. They get bribed and paid off to publish things they normally wouldn't. They decide what is good and will sell and market it to death to get people to believe it's a great story. Like DJ's they'll play it to death, as long as money is going in their pockets.

With the advent of Ebooks, publishers no longer have the control over stories as they once did and now have to accept genres they once refused. Sites like Lit. have spawned a new breed of reader, who want stories written in genres not covered by big houses. Writers can submit work that would normally be rejected by publishers and garner a following despite the lack of promotion.

Getting published is hard, but sites are springing up to cater to writers who are rejected by them and given a chance to show their work. I have friends who buy Ebooks galore, because they're $.99 and never read the story. Those writers still get their royalties of 70%, although it's hard to build a following if you're not read and reviewed.

Exactly. Look at Smashwords, I think during the Paypal debacle Coker said they had 31k+ authors. All selling stuff from .99 to whatever and all material that would never make it through a publisher, but I have read some good stuff on there. Some bad too but for a dollar or two who cares?

Another thing the e-market allows is "free stuff". How many authors give an e-book away to gain sales on their other work? Is Tor fiction going to give away copies of F. Paul Wilson's "The Tomb" so people will go out and by The spin off Repairman Jack series.

No self publishing is scaring the shit out of these people, they're like the commercials I hear locally for the Providence Journal begging people to subscribe to the real newspaper, because everyone is now reading online.

Publishers will never be extinct, but if they say they are not hurting they are lying.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Much of what publishers do is becoming obsolete but there is still a need for vetting. The big question about epublishing is determining who has to read through 10000 crappy novels to find the next Jonathan Franzen. If it isn't going to be the publishing houses who will it be?

It will be the readers. Who anyway get stuck with plenty of disappointing novels that some publisher thought was worthwhile -- but isn't. Because 99% of what gets published isn't Jonathan Franzen either.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's always the hardest thing for a writer to do....admit their work is crap.

All of us write a story and look at it, edit it, tweak it to the best we can make it, but to an educated editor and publisher, it's still crap. We get H's and scores here, but they mean nothing in the real world, when it comes to spending money on them.

Me, I think I'm good enough now, that my stories are worth sending in and an editor taking the time to look at them. I have no wild expectations I'll get told anything more than, 'Very good, Lance, now re-write it and send it back to me.'

I occasionally go to the flea market and grocery store to get an idea how my veggies stackup against the competition. I'm wayyy superior to grocery store produce, and almost in the flea market league. With THAT in mind I generally know if I'm making progress without someone saying a word, pro or con.

And I occasionally know when my writing efforts are on target, especially the epigrams I hatch. I just know when one of my lil arrows gets a bullseye.

Watched a bio-doc of Edward Elgar last night. He was 50 or so before anyone who mattered discovered him. And he started composing music at 15! It took 14 years for Pomp & Circumstance to hit the target, and now its as well known as Happy Birthday.

 

[carlieplum]

What's funny about this is that this blogger would have you believe that just because they vet a book and cut down trees to print it and pay big bucks to have some spot gloss put on the cover to really make it pop on the shelves, it's going to be great.

Sorry, you can do all that, with some hot author who looks great on the talk shows and it might still come out in the market to a large, heaving sound. I can think of several books that came out recently to huge fanfare and got slammed into the dirt by every reviewer who got his or her hands on it. (And I can also think of plenty of books that were fatally flawed that got fawned over like they were a lost work of Hemingway.)

I'd be scared shitless to be an acquiring editor these days. Anybody who blogs and says they know what's "good" and what's going to hit is whistling past the graveyard. Good for them if it helps them sleep at night, but it shouldn't impact your decisions as a writer.

AFAIK, reading is down overall. (Wasn't one of the Boca Raton chicks interviewed on GMA about 50 Shades of Gray saying it was the first book she had read in nine years?) If POD and e-books get people looking at the written word again publishers need to embrace that and figure out how to integrate it into their business model.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

The EL James "Shades of Grey" story is interesting. That might be the death knell for the slushpile and jobs like the "The Rejector".

Guessing what might be a "hit" is an uncertain science. Far easier to take something that's already found a proven market.

I think this is very good for writers. Rather than having to prove themselves to an often unreliable proxy, they can go directly to the people that really matter - paying readers. Sure, most of them are going to drown because they're awful, but at least everyone gets a fair shot.

 

[lovecraft68]

The EL James "Shades of Grey" story is interesting. That might be the death knell for the slushpile and jobs like the "The Rejector".

Guessing what might be a "hit" is an uncertain science. Far easier to take something that's already found a proven market.

I think this is very good for writers. Rather than having to prove themselves to an often unreliable proxy, they can go directly to the people that really matter - paying readers. Sure, most of them are going to drown because they're awful, but at least everyone gets a fair shot.

What is interesting about Shades though is that with it's Twilight connection and similar target audience, that it was not launched through a major publisher to start with.

Shades would also be proof that if it was there is no accounting for taste. My daughter couldn't get part way through. She's 22 and said Gray was a poser.

I guess she's Daddy's girl through and through.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What is interesting about Shades though is that with it's Twilight connection and similar target audience, that it was not launched through a major publisher to start with.

Shades would also be proof that if it was there is no accounting for taste. My daughter couldn't get part way through. She's 22 and said Gray was a poser.

I guess she's Daddy's girl through and through.

I hope she's not the same kind of broken record that her daddy is.