The real Memorial Day....

[Jagged]

Here in the United States it is the start of the Memorial Day weekend. Normally it is a time for hotdogs, trips to the beach and parties with friends and family. Also it a time for us to remember all those who gallantly serviced and died for the United States on the field of battle. So for one moment I would like for us all to remember those who gave all so we can merely play at war and adventure online. Be well and when you see a tired old man wearing a hat that says veteran remember that he deserves his rest. He saved the world once....[/B]

Many died on foreign fields with the hope that our nation would survive another day..

Freedom is an ideal that sometimes need force of arms to be upheld

Regardless of politics this day should matter....

 

[shereads]

The dedication of the new WWII monument takes place this weekend. Finally. It had begun to seem that it wouldn't be done while there were still veterans alive to see it.

I wish I could be in DC this weekend. Hadn't given it much thought until I saw a story about the dedication on NBC News, and a veteran was asked for his autograph by a young boy. That made me cry. Sometimes there's nothing like a good, uncontroversial cry.

 

[shereads]

American veterans of WWII are dying at a rate of 1100 a day. Here's a story I found on the web about one 80-year-old who will be at the memorial dedication tomorrow:

US World War II Hero Recounts Battle That Earned Him Nation's Highest Military Honor.

{excerpt}

In a last desperate struggle, the German army launched an offensive in the Ardennes region of Belgium by driving a wedge into American lines. In some of the most savage fighting of the war, the Battle of the Bulge got under way.

Using 50-caliber machine guns, 30 American soldiers prepared to defend the small Belgian town of Malmedy. It looked hopeless, as the Germans moved to encircle it.

The fighting in Malmedy went on for three weeks. "We were guarding a bridge, a very vital bridge," said Francis Currey, now almost 80 years old. He was a 19-year-old sergeant in the American infantry at Malmedy. He says senior officers had told him one squad of men would be enough to defend the position.

"About four o'clock the next morning, here come the German tanks almost bumper to bumper, an armored column," he recounted. "One of them pulled right up to our position, and I had a Browning automatic rifle at the time, and the officer leading the column was up in the turret, and I fired at him, buttoned him up, and the others scattered."

All day long, Sergeant Currey and his small band of men held off the Germans. "We withdrew to this factory. It had a lot of windows in it, and we were firing from a window. 'Move, fire, move, fire' And made them think that we were a lot more than we actually were," he said.

Under cover of darkness, Sergeant Currey and his men escaped in an abandoned jeep. "Now, visualize, five young men, the oldest 21-years-old, in the middle of Belgium, when it was dark. We couldn't use lights on the jeep. We were surrounded by Germans. That's youth!"

For his valor under fire, Sergeant Francis Currey received the Congressional Medal of Honor, America's highest military award.

Francis Currey will be one of the veterans present at the dedication of the World War II memorial in Washington this weekend. At that time, the nation will formally pay tribute to the 400,000 American soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines and others who died in the conflict as well as the 16 million men and women who were in military service during that time.

Sergeant Currey knows this event will be the last hurrah for many of his old comrades. The public recognition elderly veterans are receiving now is late in coming. He is like many others of his generation who lived through the Depression era of the 1930's, survived military combat, and when the war was over in 1945, quietly came home and went about their lives.

That, he says, was the way they wanted it. "I can only say one thing. I hope that my country can be as proud of me as I am proud of this country."

 

[Jagged]

It is not unseemly for a man to die fighting in defense of his country.
Homer (800 BC - 700 BC), The Iliad




It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee (1807 - 1870)

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[Jagged]

Welcome....almost ever adult male in my family of that generation fought in WWII.....others in Korea and the Gulf while others still stood ready during the coldwar....

Always been more then a weekend.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

What a great thread.
I have such admiration for the veterns. I always buy a poppy from them, this year my daughter (6) asked me why I did, I told her about it reminding us of those who fought to defend freedom. I explained about Flander's field.
I view the flag as a symbol of respect because of so many that died under it and teach my children the same.
I've sat with my dad, a Korean was vet, in the Vetern's hospital and talked with the other men there and heard their stories. Old men who were once scared young men.

Taps is still the saddest song in the world. When you hear it played you think of the meaning behind it and weep for the ones who are absent.

~A~

 

[minsue]

http://imagesoftheworld.org/newyork/poppy.jpg

 

[champagne1982]

Lest we forget...

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army

IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place, and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

 

[shereads]

Taps is still the saddest song in the world. When you hear it played you think of the meaning behind it and weep for the ones who are absent.

~A~ [/B]

The poor young man who played Taps at my dad's funeral was new at it, I guess, or maybe just nervous. He hit some off-key notes that would make your eyes water. I smiled. I knew my dad would have rolled his eyes heavenward and made a snide remark. In fact, he'd have been embarrassed by the whole thing. He ferried planes during the war, and was a test pilot, but since he didn't fly in combat he always felt he hadn't contributed and he didn't want a military funeral. He got one anyway, because his grandson thought it was cool. About halfway through the ceremony, this little voice piped up beside me - the kid was five years old - and said,

"When do they shoot those guns?!"

He couldn't have been more impressed if his grandpa had been a five-star general.

 

[Morduin]

Thank you from a soldier

On behalf of all soldiers active, reserve, or national guard:

Thank you very much for remembering our fallen brothers and sisters.

Charles Lanham Jr
SSG, USA
Medical NCOIC
HSB 2/8 FA
Fort Lewis, WA

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Re: Thank you from a soldier

On behalf of all soldiers active, reserve, or national guard:

Thank you very much for remembering our fallen brothers and sisters.

Charles Lanham Jr
SSG, USA
Medical NCOIC
HSB 2/8 FA
Fort Lewis, WA

No thanks needed, it's an honor and a privlege. It's us thanking you.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thank you, one and all.

-Colly

 

[oggbashan]

The UK's Remembrance Day is November 11th.

On the nearest Sunday we parade to the War Memorial for the two minute silence and a short service and then a longer service in a church.

Many also respect the two minute silence on the actual 11th at 11am GMT.

But we remember them more often than that. We don't need to wait until one day in the year. The War Memorial often has fresh flowers, some from soldiers' funerals, some from individuals on the anniversary of their loved one's sacrifice.

Apart from our War Memorial, we have the War Memorial Park, the avenue, the ornate gates, the plaques in schools for former pupils, the graves in our cemeteries.

They are always with us.

Og

 

[ABSTRUSE]

The UK's Remembrance Day is November 11th.

On the nearest Sunday we parade to the War Memorial for the two minute silence and a short service and then a longer service in a church.

Many also respect the two minute silence on the actual 11th at 11am GMT.

But we remember them more often than that. We don't need to wait until one day in the year. The War Memorial often has fresh flowers, some from soldiers' funerals, some from individuals on the anniversary of their loved one's sacrifice.

Apart from our War Memorial, we have the War Memorial Park, the avenue, the ornate gates, the plaques in schools for former pupils, the graves in our cemeteries.

They are always with us.
Og

That sounds nice.
I believe it was you Og, that commented on fellow countrymen who layed at rest in other parts of the world and are visited and kept in close memory. A wonderful tribute.
Your country suffered so much during the wars and being we have never seen anything close since 9/11. I think it's hard for us to understand the importance of remembering those who fought and those who died during the wars, not just soldiers,but anyone who lost lives during those times.

 

[oggbashan]

Abs,

The number of civilians who died in Europe in WWII was horrendous.

The Russians have bitter memories of what they call The Great Patriotic War.

Civilians weren't killed by mistake or accident. They were deliberately targeted by both sides. In total war everyone is a fighter and a potential victim.

That still happens - in Iraq, in Israel to Palestinian and Jew, and in many wars throughout the world.

We should remember them as well.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

I never forget Remembrance Day. No matter what, at 11:00 AM I take a minute to remember. I always end up crying. Partly because of the sacrifice they've made, but mostly because we haven't broken ourselves of the habit of war!. It cheapens the price paid.

It's gotten me in trouble occasionally, as a lot of people don't see the signifigance of it.

Since someone beat me to Flanders Fields I'll post the lyrics to my favourite song about WWI.

When I was a young man I carried my pack
And I lived the free life of a rover
From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback
I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in nineteen fifteen my country said Son
It's time to stop rambling 'cause there's work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
And they sent me away to the war

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we sailed away from the quay
And amidst all the tears and the shouts and the cheers
We sailed off to Gallipoli

How well I remember that terrible day
How the blood stained the sand and the water
And how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk he was ready, he primed himself well
He chased us with bullets, he rained us with shells
And in five minutes flat he'd blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia

But the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours and the Turks buried theirs
Then we started all over again

Now those that were left, well we tried to survive
In a mad world of blood, death and fire
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
But around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over tit
And when I woke up in my hospital bed
And saw what it had done, I wished I was dead
Never knew there were worse things than dying

For no more I'll go waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and near
For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs two legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me

So they collected the cripples, the wounded, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where my legs used to be
And thank Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
Then turned all their faces away

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question

And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass the Billabong
Who'll come-a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Christ! All teared up again.

 

[rgraham666]

Abs,

The number of civilians who died in Europe in WWII was horrendous.

The Russians have bitter memories of what they call The Great Patriotic War.

Civilians weren't killed by mistake or accident. They were deliberately targeted by both sides. In total war everyone is a fighter and a potential victim.

That still happens - in Iraq, in Israel to Palestinian and Jew, and in many wars throughout the world.

We should remember them as well.

Og

The German count was 800,000 from bombing, about 3,000,000 in combat. I don't know how many died from exposure, hunger and disease when they were fleeing the Red Army, but I'm sure it was horrendous.

The Russians lost 20,000,000, about a tenth of their population; 8,000,000 soldiers and 12,000,00 civilians.

Excuse me while I take a minute to puke. The numbers are a bit overwhelming.

We here in the West got off real easy.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

The German count was 800,000 from bombing, about 3,000,000 in combat. I don't know how many died from exposure, hunger and disease when they were fleeing the Red Army, but I'm sure it was horrendous.

The Russians lost 20,000,000, about a tenth of their population; 8,000,000 soldiers and 12,000,00 civilians.

Excuse me while I take a minute to puke. The numbers are a bit overwhelming.

We here in the West got off real easy.

Wow, what an overwhelming loss of life, and for what?

 

[rgraham666]

So we could be free. Actually, I still believe that.

Unfortunately, freedom is like souls. Neither can be taken, but they are often given up.

 

[oggbashan]

The numbers of civilian deaths in WWII are too large to appreciate.

The killing of all the inhabitants of Lidice and Oradour-sur-glane are more manageable figures to contemplate. The Germans killed everyone they could find in both towns as reprisals for Resistance activity. Whether there were any resistance fighters in those towns didn't matter. The names of those towns should always be remembered - not to blame modern Germans who weren't born - but to show what an apparently civilised country can do in war.

The bombing of London, Coventry and other places in the UK was repaid tenfold on towns in Germany. No one knows how many died in the firestorm that engulfed Dresden as it was bombed - 130,000 is the accepted figure. Is that acceptable to you? It was done in the name of the Allies. Compare that figure with the population of a town you know.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki I have mixed feelings about. But for the effect of those bombs the then Japanese government would have fought on to the last and millions more would have died on both sides. Conventional bombing of Toyko, intended to produce a firestorm, actually killed more people outright than at either A-bombed town and destroyed many square miles of the city.
Whatever your feelings about the use of the atomic bomb, the results were that tens or hundreds of thousands of Allied servicepeoples' lives were saved.

We should not forget because once we forget we repeat the same mistakes again. While we remember: those who died did not die in vain.

Og

Edited after checking facts.

 

[minsue]

I never forget Remembrance Day. No matter what, at 11:00 AM I take a minute to remember. I always end up crying. Partly because of the sacrifice they've made, but mostly because we haven't broken ourselves of the habit of war!. It cheapens the price paid.

It's gotten me in trouble occasionally, as a lot of people don't see the signifigance of it.

Since someone beat me to Flanders Fields I'll post the lyrics to my favourite song about WWI.

Christ! All teared up again.

Right there with you, RG. Cried all the way home from running errands today after hearing this song on the radio:

Letters From Home

Dear son, it's almost June
I hope this letter catches up with you
And finds you well
It's been dry
But they're callin' for rain
Everything's the same old same
In Johnsonville
Your stubborn old daddy
Ain't said too much
But I'm sure you know
He sends his love

And she goes on...
In a letter from home

I hold it up and show my buddies
Like we ain't scared
And our boots ain't muddy
And they all laugh
Like there's something funny
'Bout the way I talk
When I say, 'Mamma sends her best, ya'll'

I fold it up and put it in my shirt
Pick up my gun and get back to work
And it keeps me drivin' on
Waitin' on letters from home

My dearest love, it's almost dawn
I've been lyin' here all night long
Wonderin' where you might be
I saw your mamma
And I showed her the ring
Man on the television
Said something
So I couldn't sleep
But I'll be alright,
I'm just missin' you
And this is me kissin' you
X's and O's in a letter from home

I hold it up and show my buddies
Like we ain't scared
And our boots ain't muddy
And they all laugh
'Cause she calls me honey,
But they take it hard
'Cause I don't read the good parts

I fold it up and put it in my shirt
Pick up my gun and get back to work
And it keeps me drivin' on
Waitin' on letters from home

Dear son, I know I ain't written
Sittin' here tonight alone in the kitchen
It occurs to me
I might not have said it
So I'll say it now...
'Son, You make me proud'

I hold it up and show my buddies
Like we ain't scared
And our boots ain't muddy
But no one laughs
'Cause there's ain't nothin' funny
When a soldier cries
And I just wipe my eyes

I fold it up and put it in my shirt
Pick up my gun and get back to work
And it keeps me drivin' on
Waitin' on letters from home

 

[oggbashan]

Lidice

http://www.zchor.org/lidice1.htm

Don't click unless you can stand the pictures and names of innocents murdered.

Og

 

[minsue]

Re: Lidice

http://www.zchor.org/lidice1.htm

Don't click unless you can stand the pictures and names of innocents murdered.

Og

Can't stand it, but can't stand to be someone who would look away. The only thing that hurts worse than that page, Og, is knowing that it's but a drop in the bucket of the horrors humanity has wrought.

 

[oggbashan]

Personal...

Just been talking to my eldest daughter.

She has been visited by the parents of her friends from the US.

The father, a tank commander, went ashore in France on D+1. He had three cabin mates on the Queen Mary coming from the US to Britain. The four of them went back to the US on the Queen Mary but had only four legs between them. Friend's father had the remains of two legs but it took three years of rehabilitation before he could use them fully. His cabin mates, two with one leg each and one with no legs, were walking sooner than he was.

He has just toured London and Paris and has flown back to the US to recover after doing too much in too short a time. He is in his eighties and with two shot-up legs walking around the boulevards of Paris is fun - for about five minutes.

Last time I saw him I thanked him for what he did for Europe. He just wished he could have done more.

Og