The Pretender Bush...

[p_p_man]

...starts his European tour today.

Three thousand people had gathered in Barcelona yesterday (I don't know how many there are today) to greet him and protest against practically everything he's said so far.

And that's only his first stop...

You've got to admit...the boy's got guts...

 

[Willing and Unsure]

i'll give him that he's got balls... they may be made of peanut butter (mostly so the dogs will at least suck on him)... but he has shit for brains

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Good thing Britain doesn't have a pretender for a prime minister, eh, PP?

 

[Weevil]

Ooooh. Score one for the Yankees.

 

[p_p_man]

Not with a...

Good thing Britain doesn't have a pretender for a prime minister, eh, PP?

167 seat majority...a landslide victory...and with the leader of the opposition resigning in humiliation we don't...

 

[Weevil]

A-Ha!!!! Score one for the Brits. Take that!

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Not the kind of pretender I was referring to (obviously). Blair makes Clinton look sincere sometimes.

Kinda makes ya feel good to throw rocks across the pond all the time, huh?

 

[Weevil]

Ooooh, the lead is retaken by the New World!! How will the Empire respond???? Let's watch.

 

[p_p_man]

if it's any consolation...

A-Ha!!!! Score one for the Brits. Take that!

...we were hammered by the Aussies yesterday in the first one day cricket competition.

Very important cricket is to us...especially against the Australians...

 

[p_p_man]

That's the kind...

Not the kind of pretender I was referring to (obviously). Blair makes Clinton look sincere sometimes.

...of sentiment Hague tried to encourage in the General Election. "you can see when Blair's telling the truth - his lips moved..."

And we now know what happened to Hague.

But we can't expect too much from a right wing, xenophobic, idiot who managed in three short weeks to complete the destruction of what used to be one of the major players in the political league.

Bit like Bush really...

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

So the landslide British victory is a refutation of the "Tony Blair is a slick Clintonesque pol" hypothesis? LOL! You're killing me! Don't forget that we elected Bill Clinton 2 times as well (and if it weren't for a Constitutional prohibition against a third consecutive term, I strongly believe Clinton would still be our Prez today). It's amazing how spin can hypnotize the masses.

Since you're an educated and cultured Englishman, you may have heard of "Feelgood" currently playing in the West End. It's extremely funny and sharp. I don't know enough about English politics to comment on its accuracy, but if Blair remotely resembles the character in the play you've got yourselves a "slick Tony" on your hands.

But that probably doesn't bother you. Clinton consistently didn't bother 65% of the American people while irking the hell out of the other 35%.

What really matters, though, is that you Europeans loved him. We care so deeply what you think about our Presidents.

 

[WriterDom]

Re: if it's any consolation...

...we were hammered by the Aussies yesterday in the first one day cricket competition.

Very important cricket is to us...especially against the Australians...

There was a movement in the US to abolish the death penalty and instead force inmates to watch Cricket 18 hours a day, but the courts ruled it was cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[p_p_man]

OK...OK...

There was a movement in the US to abolish the death penalty and instead force inmates to watch Cricket 18 hours a day, but the courts ruled it was cruel and unusual punishment.

LOL

I know it's an English thing...

 

[Ally C]

What really matters, though, is that you Europeans loved him. We care so deeply what you think about our Presidents.

Somebody has to. Pity we seem to have undertaken such an onerous task. Game for a laugh I suppose - unlike cricket which I loathe.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Not to go in another direction, but I hope England really accelerates its leftist tendancies at this point. If what we conservatives think will happen, happens, then we have good ammunition to help us in our fight against the left.

Good job Tony!

Keep it up!

 

[p_p_man]

Andra_Jenny...

...wondered when you'd spot this thread!

The UK under the Blair Government has in fact swung a long way to the right. At one time 1983-4 his party was considered unelectable by most people over here and its supporters were known as the Loony Left.

They were an extreme party (but still the main opposition) and were supported by all the fringe groups imaginable who couldn't get a platform of their own going. The Socialist Workers, The Marxists, the Communists, they were all there pushing their own individual policies and never agreeing with each other let alone the main Labour Party.

Most of these extreme parties remained incognito as they knew that if they made their true loyalties known they would stand even less of a chance at influencing events. Funny thing was, though, most of them were known but all they had to do was deny any other affiliations and they were accepted.

It was not until Neil Kinnock (who is now a European Commissioner) took over the party leadership that the Labour Party began the process of getting rid of the exremists. Looking back they were great days when the middle and right wings of the Labour Party went to war against the far left.

I think people who take part in the debates on Lit would have enjoyed it. The standards of debate and the real fire and brimstone speeches that were made on both sides but especially from Neil Kinnock were probably the last gasp of old fashioned politics in the UK.

The whole country was involved. We were witnessing a party tearing itself apart to build itself up again in order to present itself to the British electorate as a plausible alternative to the Conservatives under Maggie Thatcher (y'know THAT WOMAN). That was one reason she was in power for so long, it wasn't because she was popular - far from it - there just wasn't any opposition to speak of.

Anyway Neil Kinnock started the job. He never took the Labour Party into power (by then they had even changed their name to New Labour and adopted a rose as an emblem) but from his foundations Tony Blair could concentrate on the job of getting the party elected.

This he succeeded in four years ago. There are only a few seats (we call it the middle ground) in the UK which must be won by any party if it is to win an election and for so long the middle ground had voted solidly Conservative (your Republican if you like).

Tony Blair set the party's sights on that middle ground and won it by taking the party even further to the right. Now we have a situation where Tony Blair's Government will probably be in power for another eight to ten years whilst the Conservatives try to rebuild. The problem the Conservatives have is that they are now considered an extreme right wing party which most people don't want.

If Tony Blair keeps his promises of major social/transport/health and education reforms over the next five years (and believe you me he will probably be the most closely watched Prime Minister in the history of British politics to make sure he does) then the UK will have no wish to go any further to the right and New Labour will have no reason to.

That ground is now occupied by the Conservatives and it is a ground occupied by an aging population who look inward and backward to previous glory days.

So I'm sorry to disappoint you but as New Labour has been steadily moving to the right for the last 15-16 years it's unlikely now that they will reverse that trend and start heading in the opposite direction...

Especially now that they are in power.

 

[p_p_man]

well...well...well...

Andra_Jenny

This has just got to confuse you...

I heard all this on our news bulletins yesterday...

Bush now in Europe for his tour has moderated the thoughts he had when he took over the presidency. Apparantly he is having lessons on how Europe operates so that he can better understand us. And receiving gentle counselling to show him that Europe really has no wish to follow the American way now that we have become more self-reliant.

Now this is the bit which will confuse you...

Because of his defence plans (the star wars project) his father (Bush senior) has recently been having talks with the Russians and with Gorbechev in particular about the implications of the policy.

Now I personally applaud that commonsense is beginning to prevail and that Bush Snr and Gorbechev can be used to keep their respective governments informed of the others intentions, but how do you feel?

I mean isn't it a bit like getting into bed with the enemy?

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Because I am stoopid

here is how I feel about the missle shield,

If it is so bad for us to have it why is it okay for Russia (see, I did not say the soviets, even though they still are) and China to be actively testing their own systems?

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Plus my stategy comes from Musashi

since he is simple.

But he would be with his enemies every day, talking, discussing, planning...

How else to know their mind?

 

[p_p_man]

Well he's here...

...well in Spain actually at the beginning of his European tour.

The TV's reporting it even as I post this and so far he hasn't convinced the Spanish Government about his stand over Kyoto although they are a bit more more favourable to his "star wars" defence plans, (mind you they are a Conservative Governemt).

I've just been listening to one of his speeches. I never realised he actually talks in the same manner as he is porttrayed in the media.

"I am here to discuss with our friends and allies (pause) and Russia". Well done George you remembered Russia which is considered a friend and ally of Europe. :-D

"Freedom loving people". That type of phraseology disappeared from our vocabularies over twenty years ago. In fact it sounds similar to the kind of thing the communists used to spout.

I think it's going to be quite an illuminating few days. Oh yes there are demos being staged in Barcelona at this very second (ain't the internet wonderful - you're getting it before CNN) but nothing major.

Next part of the tour are the socialist countries.

 

[Havocman]

Re: Well he's here...

I've just been listening to one of his speeches. I never realised he actually talks in the same manner as he is porttrayed in the media.

"I am here to discuss with our friends and allies (pause) and Russia". Well done George you remembered Russia which is considered a friend and ally of Europe. :-D

Funny, I don't recall exactly when Russia signed on to the NATO pact, but you're obviously closer to the situation than we are over here in the colonies...so I'll defer to your assessment of THAT situation...if it's truly the case, then my feelings that it's past time for the U.S. to withdraw from NATO are not unfounded.

"Freedom loving people". That type of phraseology disappeared from our vocabularies over twenty years ago. In fact it sounds similar to the kind of thing the communists used to spout.

Now I don't know you p_p_man, and I realize you probably couldn't care less what ANOTHER crazy right wing extremist Yank has to say but...if THAT type of phraseology EVER disappears from MY vocabulary it'll be because I'm no longer drawing breath...

Over twenty years ago you say, eh...hmmm...that would have been about the time that those freedom loving Soviet communist where invading Afghanistan. I can see why it would have disappeared from the lexicon in the UK about then.

Havoc the Rabble Rouser

 

[Andra_Jenny]

GO Havoc

Yo Havoc

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Well he's here...

Funny, I don't recall exactly when Russia signed on to the NATO pact, but you're obviously closer to the situation than we are over here in the colonies...so I'll defer to your assessment of THAT situation...if it's truly the case, then my feelings that it's past time for the U.S. to withdraw from NATO are not unfounded.

Bush is meeting Putin (Sp) later on this week not as a member of NATO but as a power from which he has to gain support.

By mistake I've started writing small posts about his tour on the "Why Does Anyone Vote Republican" thread but I'll repeat here what I posted this morning.

European Press Comments:

Italy: say that Bush's withdrawal from Kyoto is "Geo-Political Folly"
France: calls him "arrogant"
Russia: says that even if they are offered extra incentives like more aid they could never agree to his "new defence " policy.

General European press comments are that his use of nuclear terrorism as an excuse for the defence policy is nonsense. It's more likely to be a pandering to the American electorate to show thay have a strong President at the helm.

He's only been here a day and he's only met one sympathetic Governement (Spain) so we'll see what happens when he meets the more critical countries. Most journalists think he's going to have a rough ride in Sweden (especially over Kyoto).