The oncoming collision of trans rights and parental rights

[GlasDomDaddy]

I feel full of dread right now. I think that, regardless of which side you take, pretty soon something will happen that will make you despair.

Over here in the UK the tension is tangible; Trans rights are starting to compete with parental rights and I think this will be the "flashpoint" where something physical ends up happening.

How does everyone else feel about it? (the approaching flashpoint, not the argument itself)

 

[adrina]

How are trans rights competing against parental rights?

 

[Bn2f]

Lemme TRY...
PATIENTLY try...
LOVINGLY try to ease your sense of false dread and despair, ok?

LGBTQ are human beings. Living, breathing, and existing like EVERY other human being.
Trans rights are human rights.
Let me say that again -
TRANS RIGHTS ARE YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS!

Please, I'm asking and begging you, stop posting things like this that naively (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, ok?) foster tension where there should be NONE.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

How are trans rights competing against parental rights?

It depends where you are.

In the US, as is my understanding, there are "trans refuge" bills being passed which allow states various powers to remove the children from their parents if the parents do not affirm their gender. Conversely there are other states passing bills allowing the state to take children from parents who are trans or if the kids themselves are trans (Florida, I think).

In the UK in Scotland, the UK Government blocked a bill from the Scottish government which would allow children to begin transitioning at school without informing or consent of the parent or legal guardian.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

Lemme TRY...
PATIENTLY try...
LOVINGLY try to ease your sense of false dread and despair, ok?

LGBTQ are human beings. Living, breathing, and existing like EVERY other human being.
Trans rights are human rights.
Let me say that again -
TRANS RIGHTS ARE YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS!

Please, I'm asking and begging you, stop posting things like this that naively (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, ok?) foster tension where there should be NONE.

You haven't understood me; I am talking about the tension itself not about the argument. I am asking if anyone else is worried about what will happen when those two opposing forces reach confrontation.

 

[Dubinsky]

You haven't understood me; I am talking about the tension itself not about the argument. I am asking if anyone else is worried about what will happen when those two opposing forces reach confrontation.

I live in a country where we’re on a continual knife-edge of tension, disagreement, and bullshit.

It’ll boil over one of these days. Who knows what issue will make that happen?

Either way, living with this tension is like living under the threat of nuclear annihilation when I was a kid: you get used to it.

 

[Bn2f]

You haven't understood me; I am talking about the tension itself not about the argument. I am asking if anyone else is worried about what will happen when those two opposing forces reach confrontation.

I understood you well.
I said clearly that what I explained I did with patience and love. Take this thread down is REALLY what I stopped myself from yelling, especially if you seem, like I intoned, to be asking from a position of naive ignorance (I'm not insulting you. Brain moving too fast to think of better words). There is no oncoming confrontation. This posed question can only feed into the false narrative and lead to the eventual violence towards others.

 

[jomar]

I’m terrified. I can only imagine it’ll be even worse than a fight scene akin to the Gangs of New York!

 

[Bn2f]

If you start with the fact that these are people, which they are, then you would not have any problem, there would not even be a question to worry on on how and whatever decisions they make. Asking this question, no matter how well intentioned, only feeds into the made up outrage of the misinformed.

 

[Bn2f]

I live in a country where we’re on a continual knife-edge of tension, disagreement, and bullshit.

It’ll boil over one of these days. Who knows what issue will make that happen?

Either way, living with this tension is like living under the threat of nuclear annihilation when I was a kid: you get used to it.

I really don't want this thread to devolve into attacks against you. I do realize that laws and decisions are being made against this community. I'm asking you to look through past the hate, lies, and bigotry and don't fall into the trap of separating and otherizing human rights as an argument between trans and parental or trans and ANYTHING.

 

[YDB95]

It depends where you are.

In the US, as is my understanding, there are "trans refuge" bills being passed which allow states various powers to remove the children from their parents if the parents do not affirm their gender.

No. What you probably heard about is a bill in Minnesota that would protect the rights of children seeking gender-affirming care. It would only "remove children from their parents" if the parents are actively trying to prevent them from getting said care.

 

[Dubinsky]

I really don't want this thread to devolve into attacks against you. I do realize that laws and decisions are being made against this community. I'm asking you to look through past the hate, lies, and bigotry and don't fall into the trap of separating and otherizing human rights as an argument between trans and parental or trans and ANYTHING.

I didn’t mention trans at all, nor would I; I agree with you. I think it’s a non-issue. I’m not otherizing anyone. But that’s not what the OP is asking about. If I have to post about trans, I’ll happily bow out of the thread; it’s not something I’m hung up about.

I’m just trying to understand the OP’s contention: I think he’s asking about tension, not trans rights per se. There is undeniably tension in our society, and this issue is just one of about 5,877 reasons why.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

It would only "remove children from their parents" if the parents are actively trying to prevent them from getting said care.

Thank you; I tried to google it but it just returned a sprawling mass of things which were not what I was looking for.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

I didn’t mention trans at all, nor would I; I agree with you. I think it’s a non-issue. I’m not otherizing anyone. But that’s not what the OP is asking about. If I have to post about trans, I’ll happily bow out of the thread; it’s not something I’m hung up about.

I’m just trying to understand the OP’s contention: I think he’s asking about tension, not trans rights per se. There is undeniably tension in our society, and this issue is just one of about 5,877 reasons why.

We may live in different societies; I'm over in the UK where there is a, seemingly unavoidable, meeting of wills about to take place.

Both sides feel very strongly about their views, both sides believe themselves absolutely correct.

Thus far; only one side has taken physical action against the other (it kinda grew from from a bubble to boil). The other side is starting to bubble now.

Over in the US, it seems like you're in much the same position but it's less uncommon. As in; things generally tend to be more kinetic in the US than they are in the UK.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

This posed question can only feed into the false narrative and lead to the eventual violence towards others.

How can posing a question lead to violence towards others?

 

[Bn2f]

I didn’t mention trans at all, nor would I; I agree with you. I think it’s a non-issue. I’m not otherizing anyone. But that’s not what the OP is asking about. If I have to post about trans, I’ll happily bow out of the thread; it’s not something I’m hung up about.

I’m just trying to understand the OP’s contention: I think he’s asking about tension, not trans rights per se. There is undeniably tension in our society, and this issue is just one of about 5,877 reasons why.

My apologies. I quoted you by accident. Did not see you enter into the conversation.

 

[Bn2f]

I stand by what I originally posted. If you're a parent and you have a child then you're a parent. Laws should not be made on whether you're a single parent, or a male or female parent, a widowed parent, foster, etc. Trans rights are not competing against anything. Your question starts with the idea that there are 2 separate forces. Trans folk are subject to attack just for being themselves. No parent, in the UK or US, is realistically subjected to violence for parenting.

 

[adrina]

It depends where you are.

In the US, as is my understanding, there are "trans refuge" bills being passed which allow states various powers to remove the children from their parents if the parents do not affirm their gender. Conversely there are other states passing bills allowing the state to take children from parents who are trans or if the kids themselves are trans (Florida, I think).

In the UK in Scotland, the UK Government blocked a bill from the Scottish government which would allow children to begin transitioning at school without informing or consent of the parent or legal guardian.

Which state(s)? Which laws? Which states are trying to take away children from parents who do not affirm their gender?

There are laws which allow the state to take away children from their parents if the parents affirm or try to support their trans child. Such as Florida and Texas How does that law put trans rights in competition with parental rights? If anything it takes away parental rights - as parents are no longer allowed to support their trans child being trans without fear of having them taken away by the state.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I feel full of dread right now. I think that, regardless of which side you take, pretty soon something will happen that will make you despair.

Over here in the UK the tension is tangible; Trans rights are starting to compete with parental rights and I think this will be the "flashpoint" where something physical ends up happening.

How does everyone else feel about it? (the approaching flashpoint, not the argument itself)

Gender reassignment therapy has become a wedge issue for the right. They don’t care about parental rights or what’s in the best interests of children.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

I stand by what I originally posted. If you're a parent and you have a child then you're a parent. Laws should not be made on whether you're a single parent, or a male or female parent, a widowed parent, foster, etc. Trans rights are not competing against anything. Your question starts with the idea that there are 2 separate forces. Trans folk are subject to attack just for being themselves. No parent, in the UK or US, is realistically subjected to violence for parenting.

Well ok, but that's not what we are talking about though.

What I can see, from where I am, is two groups of people about to headbutt each other. I'm worried about that, it doesn't end well for either side. I'm asking if anyone else is worried about what's ahead of that.

It sounds like you have strong feelings on the subject that, perhaps, belong in a thread on that subject.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

Which state(s)? Which laws? Which states are trying to take away children from parents who do not affirm their gender?

I was corrected above - apparently it was Minnesota.

In Washington (I'll save your eyes and put the source at the end) basically if a kid runs away from home and requests gender therapy then they can get it, and I guess become ward of the state. There's a lot of roundaboutism from both sides of the argument, but essentially (as I can understand) the child can become ward of the state by stating they wish to get gender therapy and their parents won't let them (even if they are a minor).

Have a read and see if you agree with my interpretation, but go to the end because like I said... roundaboutism.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/o...gton-bill-aimed-at-runaway-transgender-youth/

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

There are laws which allow the state to take away children from their parents if the parents affirm or try to support their trans child. Such as Florida and Texas How does that law put trans rights in competition with parental rights? If anything it takes away parental rights - as parents are no longer allowed to support their trans child being trans without fear of having them taken away by the state.

I'm trying to give an opinion as I want to try to manoeuvre around the argument itself and focus on whats ahead

taking kids is bad

 

[adrina]

I was corrected above - apparently it was Minnesota.

In Washington (I'll save your eyes and put the source at the end) basically if a kid runs away from home and requests gender therapy then they can get it, and I guess become ward of the state. There's a lot of roundaboutism from both sides of the argument, but essentially (as I can understand) the child can become ward of the state by stating they wish to get gender therapy and their parents won't let them (even if they are a minor).

Have a read and see if you agree with my interpretation, but go to the end because like I said... roundaboutism.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/o...gton-bill-aimed-at-runaway-transgender-youth/

So Washington state has created a mechanism in which a trans child can advocate for themselves when their parents are not, or worse actively working against their child. Much like emancipation.

That is not something that runs afoul of parental rights on the whole.

You created a thread about how trans rights are in competition with parental rights.

So far you have not backed up that statement with actual fact.

Honestly, it sounds like an over dramatization of current events. Fear based or otherwise.

I'm trying to give an opinion as I want to try to manoeuvre around the argument itself and focus on whats ahead

taking kids is bad

Yes taking away kids is bad. So far the only states who have put that in place are working against parental rights.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

You created a thread about how trans rights are in competition with parental rights.

So far you have not backed up that statement with actual fact.

That would drag us back into the argument, which I'm trying to avoid since arguing for either side would make it seem like I supported either side.

It seems like most people are concerned the argument rather than what seems clearly, to myself and others, the oncoming train of consequences.

If you don't think it's coming, I suppose you can ignore the thread, it's not a concern for you.

P.s. it also occurs to me that you didn't actually read the link I placed for you

 

[adrina]

That would drag us back into the argument, which I'm trying to avoid since arguing for either side would make it seem like I supported either side.

It seems like most people are concerned the argument rather than what seems clearly, to myself and others, the oncoming train of consequences.

If you don't think it's coming, I suppose you can ignore the thread, it's not a concern for you.

P.s. it also occurs to me that you didn't actually read the link I placed for you

I'm trying to determine the basis for the discussion.

So far the only basis for the discussion is conservative policies working against parental rights.

What is the oncoming train of consequences?

P.S. I read the link. And it doesn't support your concern that trans rights will infringe on parental rights. Instead trans fear is infringing upon parental rights.