The never-ending "labels" debate

[Black_Bunny]

Ok, so the 'slut and whore' thread has got me thinking (along with some talk on Fetlife) about the names we give ourselves / the names our PYLs tell us to use.

In private, I call my PYL 'Master'. It's what he's asked me to call him, and it's what I'm most comfortable with. But on here (and Fetlife) I say 'my Dominant' or 'PYL' to make sure I don't upset anyone.

And I just wonder, does anyone here actually care if I refer to him as my Master?

Because, just as I am his slut, but not a slut, so in the same way he is my Master, not necessarily a Master.

I mean, being a Master is not like "oh very good grasshopper, you have passed the test and you may now use the title 'Master'. "

Anyone who knows me on here knows that we are in a Dominant/submissive relationship, and not Master/slave. Of course if we were advertising for a third person or couple, we'd be specific, so as to avoid the assumptions. But the rest of the time...

I'm in a very "don't give a fuck" mood at the moment, but never is my intention to offend anyone. If people could add their honest thoughts it would be much appreciated.

 

[MisterSir]

I mean, being a Master is not like "oh very good grasshopper, you have passed the test and you may now use the title 'Master'. "

I did do a small double-take upon reading that, on the other BDSM-oriented site I frequent "grasshopper" is my user name. I was grousing about something one day to a friend, she quoted Kung Fu at me and magic happened.

Returning you to your regularly scheduled posting in 3...2...1...

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think the PYL/pyl thing came about here to avoid offending people. I think it's just shorthand, so you don't have to explain, well, I call him master but we're D/s not M/s, for example. If it's important to you to call him Master, then I doubt anyone will care. You wouldn't be the first to do so.

 

[FloggingMolly]

I usually call him darlin' or honey to be honest. I do sometimes call him Daddy, but not exclusively. We're D/s.

 

[sb2009]

here I've never seen anyone say anything about what labels anyone uses. I've seen some "correction" on Fetlife, but I don't feel it should matter to anyone else what term I use. I prefer "Tim" but hey, that's what does it for me.

 

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[ecstaticsub]

You can call him anything you want as far as I am concerned. I call my PYL Daddy or his first name in private. On Fet I call him by his Fet screen name because anything else just seems weird. On here...it depends on the conversation.

I remember once someone getting all riled up because of the term my dominant. The poster's point was since a submissive could not own a dominant we can't use the word my or refer to our dominants as mine. Screw that. It's up to my dominant to correct me not someone else.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I remember once someone getting all riled up because of the term my dominant. The poster's point was since a submissive could not own a dominant we can't use the word my or refer to our dominants as mine. Screw that. It's up to my dominant to correct me not someone else.

I think, given the nature of such relationships, he's every bit as much yours as you are his.

It's not about ownership, but about belonging. Belonging right there with that person, be they dom or sub.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I usually call him darlin' or honey to be honest. I do sometimes call him Daddy, but not exclusively. We're D/s.

I do usually call him Master when I'm talking to him, but I was more asking about how to refer to him when I'm talking about him. You don't say "My darling said this" or "Honey said that".

I've seen some "correction" on Fetlife, but I don't feel it should matter to anyone else what term I use.

My Master recently joined Fetlife and the username he wanted beginning with 'Mr' was taken, so he added 'Master' to the beginning of it. Now a person, I don't want to pick, and he's a new friend, and I'm sure he's a lovely person, its just that what he says is probably the way many others feel too... but he said that 'Master' is a title that only a few have 'earned' and my Dominant may want to re-think his username... his profile clearly states that he is Dominant of Black Bunny, not Master, just as mine states I am submissive not slave... it's a freakin username... So, what now I can't refer to the person I love with a title that shows my respect for him, because some think he hasn't "earnt" that title?!

 

[DVS]

There have been a few times here where someone has been corrected or at least it was suggested that the "W/we, O/our, His, i" capital letter thing was a bit too much to read. At least this forum and the cafe are against such formalities and I'm glad. It's difficult to read and if I was forced to do that kind of shit, I'd find me another place to hang out. Sure, privately, do what you want. I have no issue with that, but don't include me in something that isn't necessary to carry on a conversation.

And there are some who prefer to use small bits of the label thing, because it's normal for them. Again, we don't require it, but if you want to use labels because you think they are necessary or just normal for you, as long as I can read your post, I have no problem with it. We are all individuals here and sometimes, you just have to be yourself to stand out.

I'm not a label person. There are too many master and lords and such that have no experience what so ever...just the name. Oh, sorry, that should be Master and Lord. I remember a time when I was Nasty Master and Master DVS on other sites. Shit, I think I was a Lord at one time, too. Yes, I confess...I went along with the masses. Silly as it seems now, if you wanted the chicks to dig you, you had to play the part. The only labels that make any sense here, and even they aren't necessary are M/s, D/s and that sort of thing. I think they are still used so the newbies will have an idea of what's going on.

Angelic Assassin coined the PYL/pyl thing. It wasn't intended to be used because people were getting offended by others not following some protocol. He started it because there was just too much of that kind of thing in some people's posts so the rest of us were pulling our hair out, trying to read it. I don't have that much hair left, so I'm glad he got the idea for it.

PYL/pyl is simple, to the point and if you want to use some form of label here, that's the best way to go. It shouldn't offend anybody because it's become standard usage here. It works so well, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets used on other sites as well.

We still have newbies that show up and assume the pomp and flourishes are necessary. We just politely tell them it isn't and the place is much better for it. God forbid though, there will always be the die hard crew that get offended by the lack of that protocol and ceremony. They think they deserve some respect because of a made up name. I say let them go back to the gorean web sites that use such nonsense. Oh, should that be Gorean? My bad.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't see how my referring to my partner as 'Master' would confuse you. What's so confusing about it? The amount of times I've read someone asking "what does PYL mean?", that seems more confusing.

I'm not saying I don't like the pick your label thing, I think it's a good idea. I just tire of having to 'remember' to use some other term to refer to the person I always think of in my head as Master.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'm not saying I don't like the pick your label thing, I think it's a good idea. I just tire of having to 'remember' to use some other term to refer to the person I always think of in my head as Master.

I don't think you have to.

I tend to only use it when speaking in general terms, so people don't feel left out or whatever, but when referring to Mr, I call him that. I don't say 'my PYL'

I think that's what most do.

 

[Black_Bunny]

Thank you, it's nice that at least on here, with at least some of you, I can have the freedom to be myself.

I just got really annoyed at Fetlife, and I was thinking there was this big discussion here about being 'his' whore as opposed to 'a' whore... and I thought... why the hell can't he be 'my' Master? Does he have to whip out some certificate of achievement to 'prove' he is 'a Master'??

 

[FloggingMolly]

Sorry, I didn't read it right...

I refer to him as 'he/him' on here, sometimes 'Mads', and depending on the thread 'Daddy' (this is because this term is still new for us, and I'm not quite so confident in using it yet.)

I don't really use dom or master online much, but I do think there seems to be some form of consensus that dom = d/s, master = m/s, and assumptions are made because of it. But then I'm wondering that there's maybe too much emphasis on which 'catagory' your relationship supposedly conforms to, be it T/b, D/s, M/s...

 

[DVS]

I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't see how my referring to my partner as 'Master' would confuse you. What's so confusing about it? The amount of times I've read someone asking "what does PYL mean?", that seems more confusing.

I'm not saying I don't like the pick your label thing, I think it's a good idea. I just tire of having to 'remember' to use some other term to refer to the person I always think of in my head as Master.

I don't care what you call your Significant other. Something like that isn't confusing and I don't think anybody here should have a problem with it, either.

Just because I don't care for labels doesn't mean I'm going to disown someone for using them. There is just too much PC stuff when it comes to labels. Owning someone, respecting someone and following the proper protocol isn't in my vocabulary. But, if you feel better doing something like that, that's perfectly fine. Like I added in my previous post (yes I edited it after the fact), we're all individuals. We have to be ourselves.

What I don't like, and what I think most anybody here for any length of time will agree with is the capital letter thing in posts that has the / to define who's the slave and who's the master in a couple. A full post of that stuff is very difficult to read. Just using the word Master...I think that would be fine with everybody. Even if you wanted to say he's your master and you are his submissive, I doubt anybody would complain. It's just not the atmosphere of this place. Use it in good health.

 

[Black_Bunny]

Sorry, I didn't read it right...

I refer to him as 'he/him' on here, sometimes 'Mads', and depending on the thread 'Daddy' (this is because this term is still new for us, and I'm not quite so confident in using it yet.)

I don't really use dom or master online much, but I do think there seems to be some form of consensus that dom = d/s, master = m/s, and assumptions are made because of it. But then I'm wondering that there's maybe too much emphasis on which 'catagory' your relationship supposedly conforms to, be it T/b, D/s, M/s...

I agree. There are assumptions, but I don't know why there is so much emphasis on the type of relationship one has. I figured that I'm on here often enough that regulars would know enough to know it's D/s, and if we were putting in a personal ad or something we'd be very specific, but the rest of the time I don't really see why there needs to be such definitions.

 

[JMohegan]

Usernames that include Master, Mistress, Sir, Lord, or Lady make me laugh, because they come off as presumptuous.

I don't give a fuck what anybody calls themselves in private, but a message board is for conversation with more than one's partner. And the notion that I should refer to Sir So-and-So as Sir is just silly. I'll stick with So-and-So, and leave the genuflecting for others.

 

[Kirabeth]

I think you should be able to call yourself or your partner whatever makes you and your partner happy doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. Not saying that I would or that I do but if I chose to call him Shithead and he to call me Bitch what difference does it make if it makes the two of us happy. If what I call my partner in one of my post offends just one someone then that one doesn't have to read my post same as I don't have to read a post that offends me. We're all grown ups here right and we're all individuals so be yourself don't conform to what someone tells you to. BDSM is a lifestyle thats made to conform to the needs of the two individuals involved in it not for those individuals to conform,do and say what others dictate to them is proper.

 

[Netzach]

I don't care, personally. Some people may interpret your relationship as being M/s or being "just like my relationship in which I call him Master" and you may have to clarify sometimes or brave the periodic "ur doin it wrong" but such is life no matter what you do - it's just a chance for clarification and communication and isn't it cool we're all different.

Now I confess, I do start to wonder about a couple where, for instance, she obviously has him socially cowed and whipped but he's always "Master this and that" and I've seen those relationships in action and I've always felt for those guys. But I don't think even then I'd be like "how can you call him that, you fake people." I assume there's something I can't see there or they'll figure it out or something.

 

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[Keroin]

I don't give a fuck about BDSM labels. Never have, never will.

 

[Primalex]

Usernames that include Master, Mistress, Sir, Lord, or Lady make me laugh, because they come off as presumptuous.

I don't give a fuck what anybody calls themselves in private, but a message board is for conversation with more than one's partner. And the notion that I should refer to Sir So-and-So as Sir is just silly. I'll stick with So-and-So, and leave the genuflecting for others.

Not sure I would call it presumptuous, but I agree with the general statement.

 

[FurryFury]

I think, given the nature of such relationships, he's every bit as much yours as you are his.

It's not about ownership, but about belonging. Belonging right there with that person, be they dom or sub.

Well said!



Black Bunny,

I certainly don't care if you call your S.O. Master or anything else. I seriously doubt that many on here would.

Debates have happened over terminology in the past that lead to the simplicity of PYL/pyl but you can call each other anything you want.

Generally we do point out that here that such things as O/our are not required by us, at this site, though if you feel you must, or have be ordered to type that way, that's fine too.

BTW, such things as DH, DS, DD on other sites do bother me. Is it really so much trouble to write out my husband and so on? Maybe you are NOT feeling that he is so "dear" at that moment. I find it cloying but I digress.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Heh. I can barely remember to capitalise "I" in my own posts, when I'm speaking of myself-- don't ask me to capitalise some stranger's chosen honorific, or use it every time I speak to them. I have an immediate reaction, too, when I see a username beginning with an honorific-- I assume they are new to the scene, or were when they picked it.

On the subject of a vs. my/her/his,

On another site, the forum's owner has in his sig; Women are like art; beautiful, valuable, property.

It irritates me every time I see it-- big surprise, right? I've asked him to amend it to make it less universal: My women are like art; beautiful, valuable, property, but he doesn't quite see the difference.

 

[where]

Heh. I can barely remember to capitalise "I" in my own posts, when I'm speaking of myself-- don't ask me to capitalise some stranger's chosen honorific, or use it every time I speak to them. I have an immediate reaction, too, when I see a username beginning with an honorific-- I assume they are new to the scene, or were when they picked it.

On the subject of a vs. my/her/his,

On another site, the forum's owner has in his sig; Women are like art; beautiful, valuable, property.

It irritates me every time I see it-- big surprise, right? I've asked him to amend it to make it less universal: My women are like art; beautiful, valuable, property, but he doesn't quite see the difference.

my beloved uses an honorific which he had when he came onto the internet scene. he had taken bdsm quite seriously before that though, and was a sub as part of his 'training' (yup... I know, old school, but I am reaping the rewards!). However he doesn't take himself too seriously and is perfectly happy to parody himself. I suppose it was that humour and self awareness that first drew me to him.