The "N" Word

[Cumbaby]

I have received criticsim for using the "N" word in my stories.

Why is it politcally correct for "home boys" to refer to each other as "N"s but "honkies" cannot?

 

[Guest]

we've had this topic before but im sure you hadn't seen it since youre pretty new to the AH.

its a derrogatory slang, which im sure you know. certain groups of people develop ways of chatting between themselves. its still derrogatory when someone in that group of people uses the word, but outsiders are not welcome.
why? there are a squillion different reasons why. pick one or pick none but really unless you are a part of that group, using that slang is best left unsaid.

ive got a beef with the word faggot. hate it.. hate the connotations...within the groups or without... horrid word.

whatever you do, just remember that you will not make everyone happy. if your point is to upset people(even remotely), then continue what youre doing...if not, then stop...easy choice.

 

[Cumbaby]

It is not my intent to upset or dis' anyone, it is just such a descriptive word

When I was a kid we had licorice candies called "Nigger Babys"!

 

[TheEarl]

It is not my intent to upset or dis' anyone, it is just such a descriptive word

When I was a kid we had licorice candies called "Nigger Babys"!

And one of my favourite books used to be called 'Ten Little Nigger Boys.' I don't think it's lost any of its flavour for being renamed the slightly less inflammatory 'And Then There Were None.'

It is a word with a hell of a lot of connotations. Unless you want every single one of them attached to your story, I'd really look at a way around it. It's like calling a gay man a 'queer' (do you have that in America)? People know what you mean vis-a-vis their sexuality, but it's got a whole lot of extra baggage with it.

The Earl

 

[Cumbaby]

I could never figure out why they call homosexual guys gay, they don't seem any happier than anyone else?

I think we are just to preoccupied with "labels", as Bill Shakespeare said: "A rose by anyother name still stiinks the same!"

 

[TheEarl]

I could never figure out why they call homosexual guys gay, they don't seem any happier than anyone else?

I think we are just to preoccupied with "labels", as Bill Shakespeare said: "A rose by anyother name still stiinks the same!"

But if I said "You are an idiot, a complete waste of oxygen." That would be a label. Would you be offended?

The Earl

 

[Daisy May]

I have received criticsim for using the "N" word in my stories.

Why is it politcally correct for "home boys" to refer to each other as "N"s but "honkies" cannot?

Twisted people. That's all I have to say about that.

A story is a story. Doesn't mean it's true or that your racist. I'd let it go in one ear and out the other. Keep writing

 

[Boota]

I never say "The N word" when I mean "nigger". Granted, nigger isn't a word I use on my own, and I don't call anyone that, but I will say it. Example:

Mr. Politically Correct: "They called him the N word."

Me: "They called him a nigger."

Simple as that. I'm not a child and I refuse to use baby talk, no matter whose sensibilities need stroked. If someone would complain to me about using the word nigger, I would just tell them to go fuck themselves and forget about them.

From strictly a character standpoint, if your character would say nigger and you don't allow the character to do that, you're cheating. You have to use the words that say what you mean, and sometimes those words aren't nice ones.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I never say "The N word" when I mean "nigger". Granted, nigger isn't a word I use on my own, and I don't call anyone that, but I will say it. Example:

Mr. Politically Correct: "They called him the N word."

Me: "They called him a nigger."

Simple as that. I'm not a child and I refuse to use baby talk, no matter whose sensibilities need stroked. If someone would complain to me about using the word nigger, I would just tell them to go fuck themselves and forget about them.

I'm not a child either, nor am I obsessed with political correctness, but I don't feel comfortable saying 'that word'

I also don't use the 'f' word (fat) because to me it carries a heavy negative cannotation- it is much more than just a description or 'well it's true'

Another word I almost never use is 'passed away' I prefer to just say 'died'

To me, died is the truth, but nigger is a lie.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I have received criticsim for using the "N" word in my stories.

Why is it politcally correct for "home boys" to refer to each other as "N"s but "honkies" cannot?

Why can my girlfriends call me a bitch, but a guy cannot?

 

[BlackShanglan]

To me, died is the truth, but nigger is a lie.

What a profound and genuinely interesting comment on the nature of language. I shall have to remember that one, S&P. Most aptly put and intriquing.

Shanglan

 

[R. Richard]

In order to really understand the reason why nigger' is used and not used, you would have to grow up white in an almost all balck area as I did.

Perhaps the best way I can inform you is to tell you about a game played only among young black men called 'the dozens.' The dozens is a game of ritual insults. The name comes from the dozen or so raciallly motivated insults a young black male would encounter in the course of living a normal day. By first hearing the insults from other blacks, he would get used to not reacting violently. The net result was the saving of many a young black male life. Was it fair? No. Was it practical? Yes!

 

[TheEarl]

I never say "The N word" when I mean "nigger". Granted, nigger isn't a word I use on my own, and I don't call anyone that, but I will say it. Example:

Mr. Politically Correct: "They called him the N word."

Me: "They called him a nigger."

Simple as that. I'm not a child and I refuse to use baby talk, no matter whose sensibilities need stroked. If someone would complain to me about using the word nigger, I would just tell them to go fuck themselves and forget about them.

From strictly a character standpoint, if your character would say nigger and you don't allow the character to do that, you're cheating. You have to use the words that say what you mean, and sometimes those words aren't nice ones.

Actually I'd like to back up slightly and agree with Boota. If you're using it as a descriptive word for a black man, then I think you could probably find better words. If your character's saying it, then that's what your character says. What's his reason though?

The Earl

 

[pop_54]

Ah the old PC brigade rears the head again.

If you're writing about a racist Bigot calling a black guy the *N* word in your dialogue lines, use it! Why not, it's relevant, life's like that PC peeps, racist Bigots exist and say nasty things.

If it's a black guy calling another black guy a *N*, go for it, they do that sort of thing, I know, some of my best friends have been black guys.

If it's you calling a black guy the *N* word in narrative, you're on thin ice my friend, I'd not recommend you do that... I wouldn't have the neck to tell you not to though, your choice, not mine, regardless of whether I agreed with your sentiments or not... I just wouldn't read your stories.

I personally will use any language or comment I feel relevant to the storyline or writing, regardless of whether it causes offence or not, I'm the most 'politically incorrect' person I know, and I aint changing at my time of life... If people don't like it, tough! I don't believe in censorship of the written word, and fear of using so called racist or non-PC language to avoid harsh judgement from a few PC Bigots is censorship of sorts.

On the subject of the PC Bigots, have you noticed they're almost all white skinned, and all claim to know how it feels for non white people to suffer racism... This has always been a topic of heated conversation among my black and asian friends, in the words of one, "who are these fucking white PC bastards to tell us what we like and don't like, and stir up race hatred in the process", in response to the local council banning Christmas lights the other year in case they offended the Muslim minority in the City.

Of course don't listen to me too much mate, I'm white, and according to the PC brigade, and other extremist groups, all white people are racists and need to be pinned down by law lest we should look at a black person wrongly... No I'm not racist, never have been, but could go that way with much more pushing from the PC brigade.

 

[robynwildchild]

well its just a negative connotation ..

why be negative...

and as the rule goes.. even in philly.. the boys will call the boys N infront of any old tom dick or harrietta .. but you aint' supposed to say it or try to repeat it... it don't work the same way.. like driving down a one way street the wrong way...

peeps get beat the fuck up for that shit

 

[Cumbaby]

well its just a negative connotation ..

why be negative...

and as the rule goes.. even in philly.. the boys will call the boys N infront of any old tom dick or harrietta .. but you aint' supposed to say it or try to repeat it... it don't work the same way.. like driving down a one way street the wrong way...

peeps get beat the fuck up for that shit

What I cannot understand is the black guys are not shy about boasting how much better they are than white guys?

Is that not a derogatory referrence to white guys/

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

What I cannot understand is the black guys are not shy about boasting how much better they are than white guys?

Is that not a derogatory referrence to white guys/

Cumbaby, this is fiction writing, not real life sociology.

The primary literary reason not to use that word is because it's almost certain to throw a lot of readers out of the story. That's a max no-no. The main reasons to use it are authenticity or a desire to shock the reader.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I've always used racial insults as a way of demonstrating to all characters a particular character's worldview. In my Loser series I feature a woman who sexually paid off a goon to sexually assault a lesbian slinging off derogatory terms for dykes. Later in the series the main villain throws around derogatory slangs for both women and blacks, using bitch, nigger, mulatto, cunt, and other terms with emphasis on certain terms to show that they were meant in a non-ironic fashion. I have also written scenes where a racist turns a purely innocent word into something hateful. In one of my plays, the ditzy bigot, states that Romeo sounds too latin and then tries to explain that she has nothing against the Latino people in a way that shows her utter lack of respect for them.

This is how I write the derogatory in my works, because the general context of a derogatory use is someone who is bigoted against the group he's using it against. However, I recognize that other cases exist. The white man trying to act black may use it among white friends or a black man if he does not value his teeth despite having no malicious intent. And I myself have used areas where the character herself has called herself a derogatory slang to show her inner strength.

So, in my uses I base it on character devolpment. I don't do it out of fear of offense, though I might temper my use of swearing depending on my audience. An adult audience will get my usual drunken monkey swear-a-thon, but for my straight-up fantasy or sci-fi pieces I clean myself up. This is because I like having a lot of people read my works and the non-adult stories generally do not have as great a need for the mood of swearing. In all cases, the defining factor is the requirements of the story. What is the tone, the characters, the theme. These drive who says what, whether I tone down or go full out, and whether it ends in uberhappy mode or with everyone and their mom dead.

I doubt this is helpful however as you seem to be searching for a sociological reason why certain derogatory terms can't be said in the presence of certain groups. That I can't give you.

 

[Amy Sweet]

Actually I'd like to back up slightly and agree with Boota. If you're using it as a descriptive word for a black man, then I think you could probably find better words. If your character's saying it, then that's what your character says. What's his reason though?

The Earl

Well yes, if a character would say it, then obviously the character would say it.

I've said it-- about twice. I don't just throw it out there because I "should" be able to say it since black people say it. It has a hard time coming out of my mouth to tell the truth. I think I'd have a much eiser time getting it to come out of a characters mouth if need be.

I knew a black woman who called her white boyfriend 'nigger' in the way you'd say 'dude.'

(see- I did it there)

 

[BlackShanglan]

I knew a black woman who called her white boyfriend 'nigger' in the way you'd say 'dude.'

Yes, it's amusing the way the word is mutating. When I worked at a swimming pool in the middle of an urban housing project, I heard the younger children use the word "nigger" to refer not only to persons of European descent, but also to inanimate objects - i.e., on seeing a life tube in the pool, "look at that nigger floating there!"

I think it on the whole a cheerful sign. It's losing its power to hurt through endless diluation. Perhaps in a generation or two, no one will wince.

Shanglan

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I think it on the whole a cheerful sign. It's losing its power to hurt through endless diluation. Perhaps in a generation or two, no one will wince.

Shanglan

I doubt it. It's one of those things that people will cling to the the rail on a sinking ship so that they can complain about it.

I agree with Pop_54. Look at the context. If you are writing a story where "nigger" would be appropriate (certain time pieces, cultural settings or trying to establish a particular mood), then don't shy away from it because of people who want the world baby-proofed. But while certain things (male and female genitalia) have a number of different reference words, "nigger" and "black" (or similar words) are not interchangable. Context is everything, in regards to writing.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I doubt it. It's one of those things that people will cling to the the rail on a sinking ship so that they can complain about it.

In my pessimistic moments, I would say probably true. It seems like the only really good way to get two groups of people to stop trying to kill each other (or at least really annoy each other) is to redirect their attentions to a third party.

This planet *needs* an alien invasion.

Shanglan

 

[Amy Sweet]

In my pessimistic moments, I would say probably true. It seems like the only really good way to get two groups of people to stop trying to kill each other (or at least really annoy each other) is to redirect their attentions to a third party.

This planet *needs* an alien invasion.

Shanglan

Na, the government would just use it to misdirect our attention from what they were doing behind our backs/right under our noses.

Plus, they'd prolly put us under martial law and we'd *all* loose *all* of our civil liberties. Hell, they'd probably tell us we had to lodge soldiers too.

 

[TheEarl]

If it's you calling a black guy the *N* word in narrative, you're on thin ice my friend, I'd not recommend you do that... I wouldn't have the neck to tell you not to though, your choice, not mine, regardless of whether I agreed with your sentiments or not... I just wouldn't read your stories.

I personally will use any language or comment I feel relevant to the storyline or writing, regardless of whether it causes offence or not, I'm the most 'politically incorrect' person I know, and I aint changing at my time of life... If people don't like it, tough! I don't believe in censorship of the written word, and fear of using so called racist or non-PC language to avoid harsh judgement from a few PC Bigots is censorship of sorts.

On the subject of the PC Bigots, have you noticed they're almost all white skinned, and all claim to know how it feels for non white people to suffer racism... This has always been a topic of heated conversation among my black and asian friends, in the words of one, "who are these fucking white PC bastards to tell us what we like and don't like, and stir up race hatred in the process", in response to the local council banning Christmas lights the other year in case they offended the Muslim minority in the City.

Of course don't listen to me too much mate, I'm white, and according to the PC brigade, and other extremist groups, all white people are racists and need to be pinned down by law lest we should look at a black person wrongly.

Hear hear!

The Earl

 

[The_Darkness]

In my part of the world, we're becoming more and more ethnically diverse, and to be perfectly blunt, most of the people hate it. They're not racist, they're just set in their ways....that and to be perfectly honest, most of the crime and violence we have around here stems from the immigrants. That having been said, they usually keep it within their groups...not that that makes it better, but it does make it significant.

How that addresses using nigger in a sentence. We have two types of black people. We have black folks...just regular people. They're not looked at differently, they don't dress like they're in a rap video and they don't go around through Wal-Mart in gangs and act out of sorts. Then we have niggers. They're the black people who act like the stereotypical black person; gangs, treating everything like it's their personal playground, starting fights, packing weapons, etc. This statement has been brought up by many of my friends who lived in major cities (or at least cities in general, we only have 15,000 people in my town) that include but are not limited to Omaha, Milwaukee, McAllen, Chicago, Denver (and subburbs), and Dallas.

We use the word Nigger to differentiate between black people and gang-wanna-be's that will more than likely go out of their ways to break laws and then scream harassment or some shit. That's happened quite a bit around here in the last 20 years....not like a lot, but more than once which is too much.

But the white people do it to. So do the Mexicans. So do the Puerto Ricans. So do the Orthodox Jews. So do the Chinese. So do the Laocians. So does EVERY racial group we have.

It all boils down to derrogation and what people view as proper. "Spic" "Nigger" and "Chink" are all evil words to say in company, but they are all inter group words.

If the character is going to say it, let them say it. Just because a character says or does something, that does not mean that the author wants to. My most popular stories are incest stories; I sure as hell don't want to fool around with my mother. We break people who mess around with their sisters in this part of the world. Every writer's a critic and most critics are extremely subjective. Use the word you want to, so long as it's in character.