The larger problem with the President's executive order immigration ban

Colonel Hogan

Madness
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There are three general considerations relative to the President's controversial immigration ban that are relevant to the current public discussion and the direction of the country going forward:

1. The Constitutional and statutory legality of the executive order itself.

2. The wisdom of the policy given its objective and all potential ramifications.

3. The manner in which the executive order was drafted and implemented.

This post is concerned primarily with item three.

When it was announced during the transition period that both Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon would play critical and highly powerful roles in the Trump White House, eyebrows were raised both in Washington and throughout the country as to how the establishment Republican crowd represented by Priebus could possibly coexist with the hardcore rightwing element represented by Bannon.

At the time, I thought it was a good move because it suggested that a wide range of conservative political philosophy would get a fair hearing and coalesce into a conservative consensus that would be difficult for the Democrats to effectively oppose.

The manner in which the immigration ban order was produced and implemented greatly calls that conclusion into question.

The Priebus/Bannon "cage match" only works if both camps have an equal footing on all issues and thrash things out to a "fair" internal resolution. If issues are instead "parceled out" to the respective groups or if one group is played against the other this Administration and we, as a country, are headed for disaster.

It appears at this point neither Rex Tillerson or Acting AG Yates was consulted on the legality and/or wisdom of the policy. That failure affects NEITHER the legality or ultimate WISDOM (or lack thereof) of the immigration ban.

But it does represent a colossal misjudgment and mismanagement by the President. And judgment and management are, first and foremost, what running ANY executive department is about.

Ultimately, it will matter little who is "right" or "wrong" about a host of issues and policies as we move forward if the Trump administration is characterized by managerial incompetence generally.

And that sure looks like what has happened in this instance.

I continue to defend the legality of the President's executive order. But I'm not certain at this point that that is the most important of the three considerations I suggested at the beginning of this post.

And that IS disturbing.
 
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Glad you got that off your chest.

You surprised the acting AG got her ass fired?
 
Due to the backing up of the green card acceptance I don't think the Trump administration thought it through. It's never a simple thing.

However I do think vetting is an important thing.
 
I would add Kelly, the Homeland Security Secretary, to that list too. He appears to have been left out of the loop and isn't happy about it.

Another issue is that, according to Politico, the White House somehow managed to draft congressional staffers into working on the EO, and had them sign non-disclosure agreements so that their actual employers wouldn't find out what they were up to.

This is a White House that obviously has no interest in separation of powers. Are there any congressional leaders who care more about the prerogatives of the legislative branch than about kowtowing to Trump? I'm not optimistic.
 
Everybody can relax. Trump just fired the acting head of ICE.

Problem solved.
 
I would add Kelly, the Homeland Security Secretary, to that list too. He appears to have been left out of the loop and isn't happy about it.

Another issue is that, according to Politico, the White House somehow managed to draft congressional staffers into working on the EO, and had them sign non-disclosure agreements so that their actual employers wouldn't find out what they were up to.

This is a White House that obviously has no interest in separation of powers. Are there any congressional leaders who care more about the prerogatives of the legislative branch than about kowtowing to Trump? I'm not optimistic.

Do you mean executive orders? Obama really liked them too and used them often.
Please don't think I am saying one justifies the other. This practice should be stopped.
 
Originally Posted by Colonel Hogan View Post
There are three general considerations relative to the President's controversial immigration ban that are relevant to the current public discussion and the direction of the country going forward:

1. The Constitutional and statutory legality of the executive order itself.
It's legal. The constitution does not apply to foreign nationals. Immigration is an executive branch discretion.

Quote:
2. The wisdom of the policy given its objective and all potential ramifications.
You do not have enough information to judge whether its wise or not.

Quote:
3. The manner in which the executive order was drafted and implemented.
IBID.

Quote:
This post is concerned primarily with item three.
All answered in various threads about the same subject.

That was one hell of an edit.
 
The reason

Why it "seemed" a go it alone

Is because

As StrongHorse Trump said

Dont telegraph shit

The more that know, the more leaks, the more the terrorists* plan and ISIS et all as well

DO IT.....

Then talk

He said this 800 times

You all dont listen


*DUMZ
 
COLONEL?

Pish Posh.

Immigrants enter our nation at the pleasure of the President. And Trump made it clear from day one he intended to screen immigrants. Recall Roosevelt jailed Jap-Americans after Pearl Harbor. Lincoln did as much and worse, murdering slaves who resisted emancipation. Obama restricted immigration. Ditto Bush and Clinton and Reagan and Carter. The President is authorized to control immigration to preserve the peace and safety of the nation.

More.

No President is obligated to obey illegal court orders. Courts are not the supreme legal authority in America. The People are. Madison was asked about it 200 years ago. He said voters determine whats what. Think JURY NULLIFICATION.

The real issue is rebellion by the elites and the Media Party. Trump was ordained by our Constitutional system AND you don't like it. Tough titty, kitty. If you don't like Trump impeach and try him. Otherwise he's immune from whatever prosecution you got in mind.

Once a few Democrats are shot things will settle down.
 
Amusement for the rest of the year: Suits against the government/agencies/executive generally end up before the Court of Appeals for the DC circuit. Remember who runs that show? :D
 
And another thing: Whatsername that just got fired, knew that would happen and probably had a million dollar per year partnership lined up at one of the big law factories in DC. So, it was planned and no big deal.

Had she been a person of conviction, here's what she should have done: There are two types of lawyers that go into government: A) hot runners from top law schools that need to check the "government service" box on their resume, and 2) the bottom-of-the-class graduates from lower tier law schools that can't get a job anywhere else. She should have assigned attorneys from group 2 to defend the President's wacko Orders.
 
I see hogan has glossed over the legality of the order.

The old ham in the sandwich routine.

This stunt is probably outside the administrative procedures act, but is certainly open to litigation on that point.

Cute move though on trumps part.

If he loses in court, he'll blame the obama legislative work-around that he stretched to the limit. Sweet.

It's like recycling plastic or cutting drugs; each time you step on it, it becomes weaker.
 
I see hogan has glossed over the legality of the order.

The old ham in the sandwich routine.

This stunt is probably outside the administrative procedures act, but is certainly open to litigation on that point.

Cute move though on trumps part.

If he loses in court, he'll blame the obama legislative work-around that he stretched to the limit. Sweet.

It's like recycling plastic or cutting drugs; each time you step on it, it becomes weaker.

You keep bringing that up, why? The order is quite legal and based on law passed by congress and signed into law by Obama. Obama later gutted the law by EO and Trump merely restored the law.

The court order did not address the constitutionality of the law, merely stated that those already on US soil (the 'in transit' crowd) were subject to the policies prior to Trumps EO.

Ishmael
 
I think Lance needs to stop worrying about the US and start worrying about Canada. The recent event should have knocked some of the smugness off of the oh-so-superior to the US contingent here from his backyard.


Seems they have a redneck and gun problem they need to address instead of lecturing us on our problems...
 
You keep bringing that up, why? The order is quite legal and based on law passed by congress and signed into law by Obama. Obama later gutted the law by EO and Trump merely restored the law.

The court order did not address the constitutionality of the law, merely stated that those already on US soil (the 'in transit' crowd) were subject to the policies prior to Trumps EO.

Ishmael

IT APPEARING to the Court from the Emergency Motion for Stay of Removal, the other submissions, the arguments of counsel, and the hearing held on the 28th of January, 2017,
1. The petitioners have a strong likelihood of success in establishing that the removal of the petitioner and others similarly situated violates their rights to Due Process and Equal Protection guaranteed by the United States Constitution;


:rolleyes:

Also, an Executive Order is not a law.

:rolleyes:
 
The law is the law. Executive Orders, has we have seen for the last eight years clearly have to force of law until a court overturns them. I predict that sans new "victims" the court will have no reason to halt this Executive Order on any grounds.


By the time they get to court, no one will be affected. The complainants are few, have been vetted and have been sent on their way.
 
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