The Isolated Blurt Thread IX: Insurrection

[RobDownSouth]

Again, it's not the specific verbiage. It's the tone, the intent, and the frequency that is troubling. What is the purpose of calling out to a random woman on the street? If the men who do this think they're doing it for the women, they should just stop. Complimenting women you know is a better idea and will have better results.

I cannot understand any other reason for doing this than getting under the skin of these women. It's a male-bonding experience when conducted by or with a group or it's enabling the guy to get off a bit on this power play. Two of the guys in the video followed her around, FFS. This is not harmless.

I'm neither easily offended not prone to "butt hurt" which should be clear based on my behavior here. How about not dismissing my statements and those of other gals here and stepping back and considering them?

I'm following this discussion with interest, mainly because I have no personal point of reference. I don't engage in this sort of behavior, and don't know anyone personally who does, so my first reaction is that it must be rather limited and why don't women simply ignore it or *drumroll* get over it.

And as soon as I said the magic words "get over it" I realized I was no better than the Vettebigot, who grew up with the word "nigger" being a large part of his daily vocabulary, and his seeming lack of understanding as to why this was no longer acceptable conversation in today's society. He's gone the "they should get over it" route and I've blasted him for his tone-deafness.

And now I'm guilty of the same thing I routinely criticize other lesser humans here for.

I am shamed.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I'm following this discussion with interest, mainly because I have no personal point of reference. I don't engage in this sort of behavior, and don't know anyone personally who does, so my first reaction is that it must be rather limited and why don't women simply ignore it or *drumroll* get over it.

And as soon as I said the magic words "get over it" I realized I was no better than the Vettebigot, who grew up with the word "nigger" being a large part of his daily vocabulary, and his seeming lack of understanding as to why this was no longer acceptable conversation in today's society. He's gone the "they should get over it" route and I've blasted him for his tone-deafness.

And now I'm guilty of the same thing I routinely criticize other lesser humans here for.

I am shamed.

You've never smiled and said hello to someone you didn't know? That's what nearly all of the 1000 violations this poor woman was subject to were.


...eh, its not that important to me. Men are pigs and should walk around with heads down, making no eye contact and in silence less some delicate flower be offended.

 

[dolf]

I put it at about 1/20, the ones who turn nasty if they don't get your adoration and attention. the aggressive tone, the crude insults, the slightest hint of a veiled threat. a 1/20 chance is enough to make me tense up as soon as it starts. i'm not congratulating myself on my fabulous arse having attracted the adoration of yet another mouth breather, i'm looking to see how many people there are in the street, any shops I could go into, any groups of people I could walk towards. if the street is deserted, i'm doing a quick mental inventory of what could, if it came to it, make a decent defensive weapon.

 

[Wife of Bath]

my daughter first came home crying at the age of 13, after two friendly guys followed her a short distance in the street, commenting on her body. had she realised how friendly they were, i'm sure she would have been overjoyed. i'm an idiot, because, instead of telling her to get over her butthurt, I told her the world is full of douchebags and there's not a lot can be done about it.

Ugh.

My scariest experience with this happened when I was 14. I was out for a run, just outside my own neighborhood, when a pick up truck with five guys in it slowed down and drove right next to me for several minutes while I was running making comments about my body.I didn't look at them and I didn't respond, but they persisted. Just when I was contemplating jogging up to a random house and knocking on the door, they took off laughing very loudly. Clearly, I should've just taken this is a friendly complement as they were telling me how beautiful I was.

Double ugh.

I'm following this discussion with interest, mainly because I have no personal point of reference. I don't engage in this sort of behavior, and don't know anyone personally who does, so my first reaction is that it must be rather limited and why don't women simply ignore it or *drumroll* get over it.

And as soon as I said the magic words "get over it" I realized I was no better than the Vettebigot, who grew up with the word "nigger" being a large part of his daily vocabulary, and his seeming lack of understanding as to why this was no longer acceptable conversation in today's society. He's gone the "they should get over it" route and I've blasted him for his tone-deafness.

And now I'm guilty of the same thing I routinely criticize other lesser humans here for.

I am shamed.

I've had plenty of experience with this phenomenon and it is unsettling, uncomfortable, and symptomatic of a larger issue. I've had men follow me (very similar to the video) for extended time while making comments; I've been groped in passing and treated less-than. I dress conservatively, I don't wear makeup, and I am pretty introverted. None of that seems to matter. It's taken as a matter of course that 'boys will be boys' and men can say whatever they want.

 

[Wife of Bath]

I put it at about 1/20, the ones who turn nasty if they don't get your adoration and attention. the aggressive tone, the crude insults, the slightest hint of a veiled threat. a 1/20 chance is enough to make me tense up as soon as it starts. i'm not congratulating myself on my fabulous arse having attracted the adoration of yet another mouth breather, i'm looking to see how many people there are in the street, any shops I could go into, any groups of people I could walk towards. if the street is deserted, i'm doing a quick mental inventory of what could, if it came to it, make a decent defensive weapon.

This. I carry pepper spray at all times and have a separate canister in my car.

 

[dolf]

tell me, savage, do you make a habit of saying hello to people who are avoiding eye contact and not engaging, or is it the small town mutual smile & nod? do you ignore dozens of other people in the street, only greeting the woman you'd quite like to shag given half the chance?

if you can't tell the difference between the two types of behaviour then you're a tit.

 

[JohnnySavage]

tell me, savage, do you make a habit of saying hello to people who are avoiding eye contact and not engaging, or is it the small town mutual smile & nod? do you ignore dozens of other people in the street, only greeting the woman you'd quite like to shag given half the chance?

if you can't tell the difference between the two types of behaviour then you're a tit.

I used to smile and say hello to everyone. But from now on, after being shown my piggish ways, I'll avoid eye contact and go about my business with my yap shut.


ETA: The bolded part... how would I know if I'd quite like to shag someone if I hadn't met them? And how would I meet them if I hadn't said hello first?

Ohhhhh..... I get it, you think men are pigs and want to bang any woman they find physically attractive without regard to whether or not they are insane.

 

[dolf]

oh fuck off.

 

[Wife of Bath]

oh fuck off.

I second that.

 

[Wings]

I posted about this a few times previously. Minneapolis is becoming well known for its street harassment. I AM in the mom generation, I'm a big girl, I dress usually well but not overtly sexy, I have been known to make eye contact frequently because after a very bad experience when I was younger I like to let people know that I see them, that I'm not oblivious to them in case they thought to catch me unaware.

There is some iota of compliment in being cat called, certainly but not enough to make it okay. And smiling and nodding a hello is MILES apart from someone commenting on my body. Miles and miles. One is quite innocent and mostly friendly, the other is abhorrent and triggers my safety warning. I've been followed, yelled at, called names, badgered, I even had to change my bus stop because one group of guys, who started out as one guy and then he got pissed that I didn't succumb to his lines gathered other guys who apparently thought I needed to be taught a lesson, wouldn't leave me alone.

I repeat, I'm not as attractive as that woman in the video, I'm certainly not as young and I'm fatter and I have to deal with it. What happens to the young little college kids around here who don't know how to protect themselves and be aware? It's scary shit.

 

[dolf]

I just asked my son what he thought.
bear in mind that he's 13. just 13.

is this about that video of the woman walking around? yeah... *sucks teeth* most of the guys think they're being nice, but they haven't thought about how it's going to make her feel.

...my son is awesome, in case you hadn't guessed.

 

[Lorilei]

It's the implication that the woman should be grateful and appreciative of the attention that bugs me the most. Um, no. Just because we're walking in public doesn't mean we've got our red light on and are open for business.

And Dolf, your son sounds like a sensible guy.

 

[dolf]

you know the thing that really pisses me off? as soon as you mention any sort of gender harassment, you're dismissed as butthurt and oversensitive. even if there is nothing else you've ever claimed to be upset or intimidated by. even if all you're doing is stating the fact that it bothers you, you're interpreted as some stupid bitch, with a victim mentality, who wants to force all those poor men to wear shackles and blindfolds and be beaten twice a day.

you say hate being hollered at? quit oppressing me, bitch!!

 

[Wings]

Listen, little lady. You should be GRATEFUL for the menz' attentions. They just want you to understand how much you turn them on in their pants and how badly they need to tell you, at a very high volume, that they expect you to fall at their feet for their flattery.

Just toddle back to the kitchen and make daddy a sandwich.

 

[Wife of Bath]

I posted about this a few times previously. Minneapolis is becoming well known for its street harassment. I AM in the mom generation, I'm a big girl, I dress usually well but not overtly sexy, I have been known to make eye contact frequently because after a very bad experience when I was younger I like to let people know that I see them, that I'm not oblivious to them in case they thought to catch me unaware.

There is some iota of compliment in being cat called, certainly but not enough to make it okay. And smiling and nodding a hello is MILES apart from someone commenting on my body. Miles and miles. One is quite innocent and mostly friendly, the other is abhorrent and triggers my safety warning. I've been followed, yelled at, called names, badgered, I even had to change my bus stop because one group of guys, who started out as one guy and then he got pissed that I didn't succumb to his lines gathered other guys who apparently thought I needed to be taught a lesson, wouldn't leave me alone.

I repeat, I'm not as attractive as that woman in the video, I'm certainly not as young and I'm fatter and I have to deal with it. What happens to the young little college kids around here who don't know how to protect themselves and be aware? It's scary shit.

Scary.

I just asked my son what he thought.
bear in mind that he's 13. just 13.
...my son is awesome, in case you hadn't guessed.

amazing. Good job, mama.

It's the implication that the woman should be grateful and appreciative of the attention that bugs me the most. Um, no. Just because we're walking in public doesn't mean we've got our red light on and are open for business.

Exactly.

you know the thing that really pisses me off? as soon as you mention any sort of gender harassment, you're dismissed as butthurt and oversensitive. even if there is nothing else you've ever claimed to be upset or intimidated by. even if all you're doing is stating the fact that it bothers you, you're interpreted as some stupid bitch, with a victim mentality, who wants to force all those poor men to wear shackles and blindfolds and be beaten twice a day.

you say hate being hollered at? quit oppressing me, bitch!!

Yes! This! 1000x this.

Listen, little lady. You should be GRATEFUL for the menz' attentions. They just want you to understand how much you turn them on in their pants and how badly they need to tell you, at a very high volume, that they expect you to fall at their feet for their flattery.

Just toddle back to the kitchen and make daddy a sandwich.

I hung that clock over the stove just for you, sweet cheeks.

 

[Que]

Again, it's not the specific verbiage. It's the tone, the intent, and the frequency that is troubling. What is the purpose of calling out to a random woman on the street? If the men who do this think they're doing it for the women, they should just stop. Complimenting women you know is a better idea and will have better results.

I cannot understand any other reason for doing this than getting under the skin of these women. It's a male-bonding experience when conducted by or with a group or it's enabling the guy to get off a bit on this power play. Two of the guys in the video followed her around, FFS. This is not harmless.

I'm neither easily offended not prone to "butt hurt" which should be clear based on my behavior here. How about not dismissing my statements and those of other gals here and stepping back and considering them?

You are exactly right about the bolded part. One guy is already assumed to be a problem because men and women do not have the same frames. A small man is usually significantly stronger than a very fit larger woman.

Two on one, is not OK even with two men vs another man. If two guys are "just joshing" a solitary male stranger, it sets up flight or, more likely fight. The lone male is deciding quickly which of the two guys he is going to put down quickly.

So, every time you see a group of guys catcalling- it is a pack mentality and showing off. It is victimizing and I am sure they know it. No one in the group thinks that anyone in the group is going to even get her number, much less make any kind of valid connection because that never happens for all of the reasons you stated.

The one and only point of contention I sometimes have in these discussions is the sometimes presented conclusion that no man can speak to a woman he does not know.

Is the woman I am addressing trapped by geography or her job? Is she a captive audience? Tread lightly if at all. Since she cannot readily dodge me, it is almost worthless as an encounter, since how will I read their reaction accurately. Many jobs require a smile. Best to be pretty neutral.

If I am interested enough to actually want to meet her, I am interested enough to observe and find some sort of neutral, friendly, nonthreatening opener. This best openers are non-verbal anyway. A smile, an eye-roll at someone else's boorish behavior, a polite shrug after a harried waitress overlooked you. It is always OK to speak to a women about any subject that you would speak to a man about who was also standing in line.

None of what was described was actually guys trying to meet her. They know when they open their mouths that she is going to reject them. it says as much about their (probably accurate) self assessment as it does about her general appearance. They know they don't have a chance so they are emotionally flashing.

It is the same mentality that causes a perv to open his trench-coat.

 

[spacekowboy]

"I'll bet your baseboards are spotless!"

 

[Wings]

I bet you pick out the best birthday cards!

 

[dolf]

bob & query & kidlet the younger have stopped me wanting to break things.

*sigh*

 

[evesdream]

This is an interesting discussion. Honestly, the conceit of the video makes me a little bit irritated when I remember the actual harassment I got from ages 10 going on up.

An old man coming up behind me in his store, physical contact in parks, on the bus, cruel backhanded comments from boys my age, etc. and worse.

Being followed one night as a teen (to the point where I was afraid to go home because I didn't want him to know where I lived) by someone pretending to pee in the bushes for about 3 blocks - that night I went up to the well lit-house of someone who seemed to have a lot of guests and asked them to use their phone to call my mother and wait out the creep. And worse than that too.

I can't agree that the majority of what she experienced in that clip is harassment.

I did receive the irritating comments from boys along the lines of "what, I'm too ugly?/too black?" but I don't consider that harassment either even, though it was meant to get a rise out of me and it bothered and confused me. It's what it was, bravado, failed come-ons, their frustration.

"Smile"? Come on.

Oh, and shut up, query.

 

[evesdream]

Well to hell with all of you.

 

[eyer]

Today's the old man's 82nd...

...I haven't talked to him since his 78th.

Just tried calling the only home number he's had since 1968...

...it has been disconnected and is no longer in service.

Naturally, that makes me wonder...

...if that's not also the case concerning his life.

 

[Wings]

I believe that the term "harassment" has been broadened to cover the street stuff. It's easier for the cops around here to patrol for it when it sounds scarier. Of course some dude was following and raping women in a parking garage in daylight here the other day so it's pretty scary as it is, no matter the title.

 

[eyer]

Well to hell with all of you.

Need any oral sex right now?

 

[Learnsmith]

You've never smiled and said hello to someone you didn't know? That's what nearly all of the 1000 violations this poor woman was subject to were.


...eh, its not that important to me. Men are pigs and should walk around with heads down, making no eye contact and in silence less some delicate flower be offended.

Hardly. I don't catcall and yet I've never had trouble earning female attention. The key is learning to recognize the subtle signals - the body language, the cues. There's no conspiracy of women trying to neuter men or pacify them, that's ridiculous. It's just that men today have never learned how to charm, how to engage, how to make their interest known, or know when to save it for another time. Most guys have neglected for years the art of the hunt, and now suddenly they're mad when women tell them they're bad at it.