The infamous "Info dump"

[Derroreaper]

We've all read the negativity surrounding an info dump in a story. I've used them on occasion, and I'd defend my usage under the circumstances.

I've also read many reasons why its better to stay vague in descriptions regarding erotica, so the reader can picture his or her version of "Sexy or attractive". I agree that in a short stroke story its probably best to leave it to the reader's imagination.

I also believe there are times it is needed for the story. Especially in longer works where you might have many more characters involved in the story.

Do you believe it can be done well, and not noticed? Or do you believe it has no real place in writing?

I'm just looking to discuss opinions and maybe get an insight to the way others think.

 

[sr71plt]

I think it's easier to avoid the data bump in a longer story than a shorter one--it gives you more space and opportunity to wedge in bits and pieces of NECESSARY information. If the information isn't needed to serve the story, there's no reason to give it anywhere in any form. And auxiliary characters only need to be defined the same way--only to the extent that it serves the story.

 

[jdnunyer]

Agreed on all points, derroreaper.

IMHO, infodumping is like pornography, in that "you know it when you see it". But it's hard to actually specify a hard and fast rule about how much is too much.

I've had readers complain that I don't spell things out enough for them, and others express gratitude for me letting them connect the dots on their own. If I were to provide more exposition, that would either be very welcome or "infodumping", depending on who you ask.

I also agree with you about descriptions of characters. Stroke stories are probably best served by leaving things vague enough for readers to see what they want to see. But the more characters you have, the more important it becomes to provide a few details to differentiate them. This can be done without giving precise measurements, of course.

And there's nothing worse than having multiple characters who all have the exact same figure, which is clearly the author's idea of the perfect body. I've seen that a lot in incest stories, where daughters are all too often near-exact replicas of their mothers and/or sons photo-copies of their fathers. How often do you actually see that? Never?

 

[sr71plt]

I've seen that a lot in incest stories, where daughters are all too often near-exact replicas of their mothers and/or sons photo-copies of their fathers. How often do you actually see that? Never?

In real life? A lot more frequent than it's good to depict in stories, I think.

 

[jdnunyer]

In real life? A lot more frequent than it's good to depict in stories, I think.

Fair enough. My real point was that it happens all too often in stories.

 

[sr71plt]

Fair enough. My real point was that it happens all too often in stories.

I was just surprised at your comment, because my experience has been that people are more often than not the spitting image of someone farther up their family tree.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I'm frustrated at the perfect body types in even the oldest of men. Whenever I want to have an older character that looks decent, it feels like shoddy writing. I'm used to men of sixty still having nice hard bodies and nice big cocks from all of these stories. I want to have a nice muscular older man seem like a rarity (because at that age, they are rare) but it's hard to make it feel sincere.

So, ugly old men become a must in my stories.

 

[jdnunyer]

I know a lot of people who look a fair amount like one or more of their relatives. I don't know many people I'd describe as the spitting image of anyone else in their family though. At least, none that come to mind. I'm willing to believe it happens though, and I'm certainly not questioning your personal observations.

 

[Darkniciad]

I try to give out little things with actions and body language. Use an errant breeze or a nervous gesture as an excuse to get the hair color in there early. Similar things for other traits I want to include.

I avoid giving actual dimensions because it's a quick invite to criticism. "Oh, another 9 inch dick." "Great, more D-cups" Some do like it, though. I've had readers over the years that asked for them, and ended up providing them to the readers in question outside the story. It's just my experience that those who don't like dimensions or use them as an excuse to complain are at the very least far louder and more likely to comment than those who want to see it.

That's one area where I absolutely think vague is the way to go. You can emphasize certain traits without pulling out the ruler, and let the reader fill in the blanks.

If I need to get back-story in there, I try to have it come out while something else is going on. Most often, I have something trigger the main character to think about it, and keep that trigger mechanism going to break up the information I'm doling out. A phone call, a conversation, working on something on the computer... Whatever set the character to thinking.

I agree with SR that it's easier to avoid in a longer story. The one I'm working on now is steadily doling out necessary information while I'm introducing characters, plot elements, and other things up to 4K word mark, and that's going to continue for a while as I bring in one more character.

A lot of my shorter stroke tales don't go much past that in totality ( I tend to keep them all under 7k words max to hit the sweet spot of stroke readers attention span ) You've got to get necessary information in there quick, so it becomes more info-dumpy. I do still try to break it up with something, though.

 

[Tyro999]

I know a lot of people who look a fair amount like one or more of their relatives. I don't know many people I'd describe as the spitting image of anyone else in their family though. At least, none that come to mind. I'm willing to believe it happens though, and I'm certainly not questioning your personal observations.

I'm one of them, JD. When my dad died in 1996, he'd been a career military officer, and as an adult, a life-long Mason and National Sojourner [Masonic organization of Military Officers who are also Master Masons. He had held national office in the Sojourners. On his death, dozens of Masons/Sojourners participated in both his memorial service in his retirement home of Hampton Roads, and in his military interment ceremony in the Columbarium at Arlington National Cemetery.

By the time those two days were done, I was ready to kill the next Mason/Sojourner who said "There's no doubt whose son you are;" or asked "Do you know that you're the spitting image of your dad, Bud?"

[My brothers, one of whom vaguely takes after our maternal grandfather, and the other who, equally vaguely, resembles no one in the immediate family {parents/grandparents}, had a lot of fun with that - too much for their supposedly advanced ages of 49 and 47]

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I'm one of them, JD. When my dad died in 1996, he'd been a career military officer, and as an adult, a life-long Mason and National Sojourner [Masonic organization of Military Officers who are also Master Masons. He had held national office in the Sojourners. On his death, dozens of Masons/Sojourners participated in both his memorial service in his retirement home of Hampton Roads, and in his military interment ceremony in the Columbarium at Arlington National Cemetery.

By the time those two days were done, I was ready to kill the next Mason/Sojourner who said "There's no doubt whose son you are;" or asked "Do you know that you're the spitting image of your dad, Bud?"

[My brothers, one of whom vaguely takes after our maternal grandfather, and the other who, equally vaguely, resembles no one in the immediate family {parents/grandparents}, had a lot of fun with that - too much for their supposedly advanced ages of 49 and 47]

My grandparents came from Kentucky. My father and his mother went down to Kentucky for a funeral of a relative, and he said that he got mistaken for his father several times.

Not sure if that's a 'YAY' for grandpa or a for my dad.

 

[estragon]

Our DNA may well determine our destiny. That said, "wanted poster" descriptions in stories turn me off. It may be a truism, but it's true: show, don't tell.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've also read many reasons why its better to stay vague in descriptions regarding erotica, so the reader can picture his or her version of "Sexy or attractive". I agree that in a short stroke story its probably best to leave it to the reader's imagination.

I also believe there are times it is needed for the story. Especially in longer works where you might have many more characters involved in the story.

Do you believe it can be done well, and not noticed? Or do you believe it has no real place in writing?

I'm just looking to discuss opinions and maybe get an insight to the way others think.

I get the impression that compared to some others, I'm a very non-visual reader. I read and loved LotR as a kid, but I never had a strong mental image of the characters. (This is handy when it comes to film adaptations - I don't get upset when characters are changed from the description, unless it's really blatant.)

So visual description of characters is largely wasted on me. Give me one or two traits and maybe I'll remember them when it's important, especially if they give some insight into the character; give me a lot, and most of those will fall off my input buffer without ever making it into long-term memory. If you start giving breast/penis measurements, I'll stop reading right there, because those stories just don't do it for me. And if you give no physical description at all, I probably won't notice or care that it's missing.

I write in the same way; very occasionally I get complaints from people who prefer more description, but most people seem to be happy to fill in the blanks there.

(OTOH, body language matters a lot to me, probably because communication in general interests me.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

How's about, LEAVE OUT WHATS NOT RELEVANT TO THE TALE.

 

[PayDay]

I think it's easier to avoid the data bump in a longer story than a shorter one--it gives you more space and opportunity to wedge in bits and pieces of NECESSARY information. If the information isn't needed to serve the story, there's no reason to give it anywhere in any form. And auxiliary characters only need to be defined the same way--only to the extent that it serves the story.

How's about, LEAVE OUT WHATS NOT RELEVANT TO THE TALE.

These.

I find it's best to add visuals of the characters little by little as the story progresses. Make a visual important when the visual is important.

For instance, don't talk about height or boob size or a perfect ass unless the character is focused on those items.

Describe a character's eyes when the opposing character first sees them, or describe someone's ass as the ass in question walks away from the focused character.

The depth of the description is only there when you write it.