The Hot Coffee mod

[Seattle Zack]

I was just wondering if anyone was aware of this, or had any ideas about it. I know a lot of you have teenaged children, and a lot of you buy video games. What's your take on this?

In the industry, it's a big deal, really. The first console game to be rated AO.

The gaming community is such an insular group, it's hard to get a read on anything outside of it.

Oh, if you don't know what I'm talking about:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/07/20/video.game.sex.ap/index.html

You wanna see the actual sex scenes? http://gorillamask.net/gtasex.shtml

Rockstar North left it in there deliberately, is my opinion. And why not? It was in the initial build of the game. Hillary "The Shrew" Clinton may adopt videogame violence as one of the many things she rails against in her upcoming presidential campaign, so who knows.

 

[Guest]

White-trash ho dosen't shave her armpits?

 

[elsol]

I ain't insecure... tell me I'm great!

*shrug*

But then again I don't have kids, and by the time I was thirteen I was sneaking porn video, magazines, etc.. etc..

So if THIS is the extent of the porn my kids get into, I will be singing a HALLELUJAH from my roof.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[sophia jane]

Why isn't M a good enough rating for it? M/Mature games aren't allowed to be sold to people under 18- shouldn't that be good enough?

I do have kids and they play videogames. But we carefully select which games they can play. We also are careful about games they can watch others play. My oldest knows that "M" games are off limits. I'm sure he'll try to be sneaky when he's older and play them, but right now it isn't a problem.

SJ

 

[velvetpie]

I have always been a video game head. The two PS2s, Sega and GameCube all belong to me - MOM! But like Sophia Jane, we have always been careful to choose our kids' games and to gauge their reactions to some of the more violent games when we went out to arcades. It was a long while before I'd allow them to buy fighting games and amazingly enough, my son thanked me for that years later.

As for GTA, we own the game and since my youngest is 16 and already knows quite a bit about sex (both taught by us and her schoolmates), the sex scene is laugable.

As for censorship, that should be left up to the parents. GTA isn't the sort of game that young children should be playing anyway and I certainly don't want to give my right of choice away to anyone.

 

[Guest]

I was just wondering if anyone was aware of this, or had any ideas about it. I know a lot of you have teenaged children, and a lot of you buy video games. What's your take on this?

In the industry, it's a big deal, really. The first console game to be rated AO.

The gaming community is such an insular group, it's hard to get a read on anything outside of it.

Oh, if you don't know what I'm talking about:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/07/20/video.game.sex.ap/index.html

You wanna see the actual sex scenes? http://gorillamask.net/gtasex.shtml

Rockstar North left it in there deliberately, is my opinion. And why not? It was in the initial build of the game. Hillary "The Shrew" Clinton may adopt videogame violence as one of the many things she rails against in her upcoming presidential campaign, so who knows.

I'd heard about the controversy. Children of friends have the game, but I'd never viewed it myself. The M rating should be enough to censor the game for kids, and parents should be the ones to monitor what their children are able to purchase or play.

Upon viewing said "sex scenes"? They are poorly animated, not really explicit, and I'm sure most enterprising youngsters can get their hands on far naughtier bits.

(And they are horribly stereotypical. He-man conquers, gets the babe, screws her in six positions, "He's the man." And of course she doesn't get to have an orgasm herself. But I digress.)

HOWEVER, the fact that it was deliberately left in the game (and any internet-skilled kid could unlock the code without parent's knowledge) is maliciously sneaky. And I would imagine illegal - hence the change in rating.

If I'd purchased this game for my child without knowing about the little sex act I'd be mad as hell. Something like that should be listed in the contents. This isn't a case of parents being able to monitor what their kids buy. In this case, the parents were misled as to what they were buying in the first place.

And of course, a change to an AO rating means that most general retailers (Walmart, for one) will not carry it. The gaming company will lose money, and they should, for misleading the public as to the actual contents in their game.


But SZ, why would you bring Hillary Clinton into this? What in the hell does she have to do with any of this nonsense? You lose focus of your argument when you sidetrack to attack a woman in power.

 

[sophia jane]

HOWEVER, the fact that it was deliberately left in the game (and any internet-skilled kid could unlock the code without parent's knowledge) is maliciously sneaky. And I would imagine illegal - hence the change in rating.

If I'd purchased this game for my child without knowing about the little sex act I'd be mad as hell. Something like that should be listed in the contents. This isn't a case of parents being able to monitor what their kids buy. In this case, the parents were misled as to what they were buying in the first place.

And of course, a change to an AO rating means that most general retailers (Walmart, for one) will not carry it. The gaming company will lose money, and they should, for misleading the public as to the actual contents in their game.

I understand your point on this. I look at the contents of games to see why it's gotten a particular rating before buying a game for my kid. But... the GTA series, with its M rating, had enough other things in it that are not appropriate for kids that kids shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. So it shouldn't be a matter of parents getting surprised by inappropriate content. There's nothing appropriate about the GTA games for children. In fact, I would venture to say, that some of the other elements of the game are actually more inappropriate than the sex scene. But I haven't seen San Andreas (we haven't bought it yet), so I can't say that for sure.

SJ

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I played a lot of GTA. Basically, I'm awful with driving and shooting. But I love wandering around, exploring game worlds and finding the neat little things people stick into them. My friend was into the game, but while he loves the car races and gun fights, he gets bored easily with swimming around, running around, exploring basically. So we playe dit together. I'd do all the stuff I found fun, then he would take over and do missions and stuff.

It's a raunchy game. The language is apalling, the characters are rotten, the police corrupt, it's violent, filled with stereotypes, Yadda yadda yadda.

I wouldn't want any child playing it, but it's pretty fun for older gamers.

It's sold for mature audiences, I think they should have left it in. Face it, the only 18 year olds who would be shocked by that live in the stories here at Lit.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I understand your point on this. I look at the contents of games to see why it's gotten a particular rating before buying a game for my kid. But... the GTA series, with its M rating, had enough other things in it that are not appropriate for kids that kids shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. So it shouldn't be a matter of parents getting surprised by inappropriate content. There's nothing appropriate about the GTA games for children. In fact, I would venture to say, that some of the other elements of the game are actually more inappropriate than the sex scene. But I haven't seen San Andreas (we haven't bought it yet), so I can't say that for sure.

SJ

San andreas is totally inappropriate for kids. Top to botom, it's not made for kids. If anything, it's worse than the original or Pt. II.

 

[Guest]

I understand your point on this. I look at the contents of games to see why it's gotten a particular rating before buying a game for my kid. But... the GTA series, with its M rating, had enough other things in it that are not appropriate for kids that kids shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. So it shouldn't be a matter of parents getting surprised by inappropriate content. There's nothing appropriate about the GTA games for children. In fact, I would venture to say, that some of the other elements of the game are actually more inappropriate than the sex scene. But I haven't seen San Andreas (we haven't bought it yet), so I can't say that for sure.

SJ

Agreed. (And my kids aren't old enough yet for M games, anyway, so I don't have much experience with them yet.)

But why did they hide the sex act?

If it was for one of those fun hidden things to locate - OK.

But if it was just to keep the M rating I think that's a more serious issue.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Many time something like the sex scenes in GTA are put in there without the knowledge of the manufacturer. A bored programer will often add a little something extra into the game which will be triggered by a hidden object, special sequence or a code. Often refered to as "Easter Eggs" they get lost in the millions of lines of code that make up a game and are only found later either by accident or by a dedicated code ripper who is looking for them.

One that comes to mind were the old Leisure Suit Larry games of the 90's. THe games themselves were not rated then but would probablly be a PG-13 for implied sex but no nudity. But if you said the right thing at the right time, or gave the right woman the right object they became quite a bit more than PG-13.

 

[sophia jane]

Just watched the clip from Good Morning America. Evidently Hillary Clinton is suggesting that Rock Star offer to refund money to anyone who feels they were misled because of the sexual content in the game.

WTF? If you bought and played through any of the GTA games, a little sex scene isn't going to shock you.

SJ

 

[Guest]

Just watched the clip from Good Morning America. Evidently Hillary Clinton is suggesting that Rock Star offer to refund money to anyone who feels they were misled because of the sexual content in the game.

WTF? If you bought and played through any of the GTA games, a little sex scene isn't going to shock you.

SJ

So that's where Hillary comes into it.

I'm still torn. I'd like to know why they didn't reveal the sexual content, though.

 

[erise]

Upon viewing said "sex scenes"? They are poorly animated, not really explicit, and I'm sure most enterprising youngsters can get their hands on far naughtier bits.

(And they are horribly stereotypical. He-man conquers, gets the babe, screws her in six positions, "He's the man." And of course she doesn't get to have an orgasm herself. But I digress.)

What facinated me is that the guy is fully dressed.

 

[Guest]

What facinated me is that the guy is fully dressed.

LMAO!

My husband said the same thing!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

So that's where Hillary comes into it.

I'm still torn. I'd like to know why they didn't reveal the sexual content, though.

It's possible Cd's answer is the best. I seem to remember animators at Disney sticking in a few things that Ol walt wouldn't have approved of. these games are played by play testers all the time, but you can do some obscure things in a lot of them that have wierd results. And there are often gliches no one catches.

I had a game called warrior sof might & magic I think. Anyway, 8 levels in, there is a door that is locked and you need the key. No one noticed, but the final version of the code had the lock on the wrong side. But you had to get in the room to progress. they uploaded a patch for it, but you would think someone would have caught that.

In pirates, the legend of black cat, if you fight the valkerie and don't score any damage on her at all, she starts doing a cheer leading routine over your dead body.

Basically, there isn't any limit to what a coder can put in, and if the actions to trigger it are obscure enough, there isn't much chance of the play testers finding it.

 

[Guest]

It's possible Cd's answer is the best. I seem to remember animators at Disney sticking in a few things that Ol walt wouldn't have approved of. these games are played by play testers all the time, but you can do some obscure things in a lot of them that have wierd results. And there are often gliches no one catches.

I had a game called warrior sof might & magic I think. Anyway, 8 levels in, there is a door that is locked and you need the key. No one noticed, but the final version of the code had the lock on the wrong side. But you had to get in the room to progress. they uploaded a patch for it, but you would think someone would have caught that.

In pirates, the legend of black cat, if you fight the valkerie and don't score any damage on her at all, she starts doing a cheer leading routine over your dead body.

Basically, there isn't any limit to what a coder can put in, and if the actions to trigger it are obscure enough, there isn't much chance of the play testers finding it.

Thanks, Colly.

So I wonder what happens to the "coder" when the shit hits the fan at a later date?

This reminds me of some of the Disney cartoons and the suggestive messages purposefully left inside. Like the priest in The Little Mermaid sporting an erection as he is marrying Prince Eric and Ursula the Sea Witch in disguise on the ship?

Someone told me about that one - had to freeze the place in our copy to see it - amazing - but it isn't anything our young kids would ever notice.

I hope.

 

[shereads]

So that's why my nephew never puts down the Gameboy.

 

[JamesSD]

Our Violent, Puritanical culture

Video games are going the way of the movie industry, where bloody gory violence is somehow more acceptable than sexuality.

GTA is a very violent game. Comparatively the sex is amazingly tame. I can't imagine a single parent saying "I never would have bought Johnny that game if I knew there was sex in it!". Ok I can, but those people are morons.

Honstly, what's more harmful to children: seeing brains splattered all over the place, or a penis?

Videogamers are getting older overall. I think Rockstar is wisely positioning itself on the cutting edge of content aimed at more mature gamers. It's a tricky proposition, you want to really bring in the adult audience but not scare away the parents of teenagers too badly (because we all know the teens want adult content, badly)

Critiquing the actual content: What's with the dude not getting naked? On the one hand it makes the sex a bit less graphic and more comical. On the other hand, it smacks of sexism. The actual animations are quite good, despite the lack of facial expression.

 

[shereads]

Honstly, what's more harmful to children: seeing brains splattered all over the place, or a penis?

The clip doesn't show a penis.

I suspect it snapped off during one of this couple's previous encounters, considering how fast he flips her over.

A more serious concern is that children who play this game will think that's what naughty sex looks like. I despair for the future of sex, particularly fellatio, if kids take this to heart. A tired dog licking its private parts expresses more enthusiasm than the two people in that clip during the oral sex scene. Seriously, if they're that bored, they should play a video game instead. Maybe that's the message.

 

[Op_Cit]

A good explanation of the silliness of how the ratings are applied can be found at:

gtasanandreas.net

Under the "Saturday, July 23, 2005" comment.

 

[sophia jane]

A good explanation of the silliness of how the ratings are applied can be found at:

gtasanandreas.net

Under the "Saturday, July 23, 2005" comment.

That's hilarious and brings up some very valid points. Wonder what will happen next.

SJ

 

[Guest]

 

[Seattle Zack]

Well, as has been mentioned before, the ridiculous sex scene is certainly not the most objectionable thing about this game. Anyone who's played it knows exactly what I'm talking about. "Nigga" this and "muthafucka" that, the dialogue is straight out of Boyz in da Hood.

That being said, it is an awesome game, and definitely worth the accolades it's received. Not a game for kids, by any means.

It's just sad when politicians like The Shrew adopt this mantle, and decide to Make Society Better by passing legislation that does no good and, in the end, harms the industry.

Rockstar is a very talented group, and the game they developed is exactly what they wanted. Fuck the do-gooder politicians. "Protect the children" ... you lying hypocrites. It's the best publicity they could have asked for.