The Healthcare Problem.

Ishmael

Literotica Guru
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Posts
84,005
This thread;

Obamacare, NOT so affordable after all !!

Prompted me to start this thread.

First of all there were some good posts in there. Not entirely on the mark, but good posts none the less. Everyone seemed to have a handle on the cause, at least in their own mind. And many had solutions of one sort or another.

Let me start with the observation that there is NO single simple answer. The Health care system is a tangled web of competing interests all looking out for their own financial interests. And any government solution has, and is, merely exasperating the problem.

Starting with just one piece of the puzzle. The AMA, and other organizations, has actively limited the number of medical school students since the 1960's. The counter-argument is that once the shortage of physicians became acutely apparent they, the AMA, increased the quota by 30%. Unfortunately they are behind in filling that quota. Shortages of anything increase the prices charged.

Add to that the insane cost of medical school on top of that. Doctors are virtually forced into high return specialties for no other reason that to pay off their student loan debt. Further driving costs up and exasperating the shortage of Primary Care physicians.

Then there is another choke point in the system, that being the 3 year residency requirement in a 'teaching' hospital. The slots available have NOT substantially increased and teaching hospitals, which traditionally have treated the indigent, are being punished under "Schuck'N'JiveCare." (Number of patients returning with the same complaints.) While the intent was to increase 'quality' of care by rewarding the hospitals with the lower number of return cases, the results have been to punish those hospitals that provide care for the lowest rung of society.

Then there is the digital record aspect of "Schuck'N'JiveCare" that forces physicians to invest in highly expensive software that requires the services of equally pricey specialty IT firms to maintain the integrity of the systems while protecting against hacking. With all of the patients information ending up in a unified government database that is itself subject to being hacked. And if you think the government is a safe repository of your personal information, I refer you to the recent OPM hack. The complete personal data of 21.5 million current and former government employees, not including their relatives, hacked. The point being the government can't even protect itself. (That hack has cost the government billions of dollars with no end in sight as I type this.) And all of this is at a cost to the patient.

Everything that we were told about "Schuck'N'JiveCare" has essentially turned out to be false. Yes, some 9 million more Americans are insured, but what about the other 37 million that we were told would be insured as well? It's obvious that they have either opted out, or just can't afford the premiums.

The insurance companies are the favored fall guys for the price increases, and to a limited extent there is some truth in that. But it must be remembered that all they do is write the checks. And with the advent of "managed care" they've had to hire a great many more employees to oversee this managed care. And that increased their management overhead, which drives prices upwards as well.

Then there is the new tax on medical devices. (Did you know that applies to your veterinarian as well? Anyone with a pet has seen the effects.) It's folly to think that that hasn't had an impact on costs to the patient.

Layer upon layer of new bureaucratic rules all designed to "fix" things while "things" just get worse and more expensive. The rule of unintended consequences run amok.

Ishmael
 
Don't worry...these are just glitches the government will work out. :D
 
Don't worry...these are just glitches the government will work out. :D

Ch'yeah, right?

Watch these Litlibs not come in here and answer anything.

They'll do anything to support The Fraud, even if it means dying in a hospital with tubes stuck up their ass.
 
First of all there were some good posts in there. Not entirely on the mark, but good posts none the less. Everyone seemed to have a handle on the cause, at least in their own mind. And many had solutions of one sort or another.

First of all, you're a drunk old fool on Medicare so your analysis of other people's opinions mean squat.

"Schuck'N'JiveCare."

Ishmael

Then you destroy any valid point you may think you have with this crap.
 
This is a sex site.

Healthcare is not sexy.

Why argue politics on a sex site?
 
Anyone think he has enough box wine to get all the way through the night?
 
Of course, health care would be much more affordable for everybody without any government involvement. Thanks a lot, Reagan.
 
This thread;

Obamacare, NOT so affordable after all !!

Prompted me to start this thread.

First of all there were some good posts in there. Not entirely on the mark, but good posts none the less. Everyone seemed to have a handle on the cause, at least in their own mind. And many had solutions of one sort or another.

Let me start with the observation that there is NO single simple answer. The Health care system is a tangled web of competing interests all looking out for their own financial interests. And any government solution has, and is, merely exasperating the problem.

Virtually the entire industiralized world disagrees that there isn't a simple solution. The fact that you don't like the simple answer doesn't mean its complicated. It means you like most Americans would rather fail than than admit they may have goofed.

Starting with just one piece of the puzzle. The AMA, and other organizations, has actively limited the number of medical school students since the 1960's. The counter-argument is that once the shortage of physicians became acutely apparent they, the AMA, increased the quota by 30%. Unfortunately they are behind in filling that quota. Shortages of anything increase the prices charged.

Citation is needed. It doesn't seem impossible that this is true but I'm curious both why they would bother (doctors aren't exactly poor and that's a lot of dedication to go through) and what method do they even have to exact said wish?

Add to that the insane cost of medical school on top of that. Doctors are virtually forced into high return specialties for no other reason that to pay off their student loan debt. Further driving costs up and exasperating the shortage of Primary Care physicians.

Presuming your previous point isn't bullshit the cost of school would probably be part of the plan. I presume you know off the top of your head what the average cost is for a doctor's education?

Ultimately this seems like one of those failures of capitalism but hey lets see what your plan is.

Then there is another choke point in the system, that being the 3 year residency requirement in a 'teaching' hospital. The slots available have NOT substantially increased and teaching hospitals, which traditionally have treated the indigent, are being punished under "Schuck'N'JiveCare." (Number of patients returning with the same complaints.) While the intent was to increase 'quality' of care by rewarding the hospitals with the lower number of return cases, the results have been to punish those hospitals that provide care for the lowest rung of society.

Citation is needed. What precisely in Obamacare rewarded good hospitals?

Then there is the digital record aspect of "Schuck'N'JiveCare" that forces physicians to invest in highly expensive software that requires the services of equally pricey specialty IT firms to maintain the integrity of the systems while protecting against hacking. With all of the patients information ending up in a unified government database that is itself subject to being hacked. And if you think the government is a safe repository of your personal information, I refer you to the recent OPM hack. The complete personal data of 21.5 million current and former government employees, not including their relatives, hacked. The point being the government can't even protect itself. (That hack has cost the government billions of dollars with no end in sight as I type this.) And all of this is at a cost to the patient.

A unified system is a no brainer. That said please explain the costs.

Everything that we were told about "Schuck'N'JiveCare" has essentially turned out to be false. Yes, some 9 million more Americans are insured, but what about the other 37 million that we were told would be insured as well? It's obvious that they have either opted out, or just can't afford the premiums.

Nope.com. The majority of what I was told about Obamacare has turned out to be true. It is not obvious that those not covered opted out or can't afford the premiums. Many live in states that denied the expansion of Medicare.

Citation is needed.

The insurance companies are the favored fall guys for the price increases, and to a limited extent there is some truth in that. But it must be remembered that all they do is write the checks. And with the advent of "managed care" they've had to hire a great many more employees to oversee this managed care. And that increased their management overhead, which drives prices upwards as well.

Do you have numbers or are you just making shit up?

Then there is the new tax on medical devices. (Did you know that applies to your veterinarian as well? Anyone with a pet has seen the effects.) It's folly to think that that hasn't had an impact on costs to the patient.

Yep. I highly doubt this has impacted costs on the patient though. Please provide numbers.

Layer upon layer of new bureaucratic rules all designed to "fix" things while "things" just get worse and more expensive. The rule of unintended consequences run amok.

Ishmael

Yadda yadda. There will be new rules as we figure this whole thing out. There always are. Whether or not things get more expensive or not is something we can chart and measure. It's worth noting that so far it's clearly not making things more expensive. So do you have a timeline for when the other shoe drops or is it the generic "Democrats are all powerful and when a Republican President takes over they'll drop it to prove a point?" Cus I see that going around alot and all I can say to that is if I'm really that in control shouldn't you focus a lot more on not pissing me off?
 
Virtually the entire industiralized world disagrees that there isn't a simple solution. The fact that you don't like the simple answer doesn't mean its complicated. It means you like most Americans would rather fail than than admit they may have goofed.



Citation is needed. It doesn't seem impossible that this is true but I'm curious both why they would bother (doctors aren't exactly poor and that's a lot of dedication to go through) and what method do they even have to exact said wish?



Presuming your previous point isn't bullshit the cost of school would probably be part of the plan. I presume you know off the top of your head what the average cost is for a doctor's education?

Ultimately this seems like one of those failures of capitalism but hey lets see what your plan is.



Citation is needed. What precisely in Obamacare rewarded good hospitals?



A unified system is a no brainer. That said please explain the costs.



Nope.com. The majority of what I was told about Obamacare has turned out to be true. It is not obvious that those not covered opted out or can't afford the premiums. Many live in states that denied the expansion of Medicare.

Citation is needed.



Do you have numbers or are you just making shit up?



Yep. I highly doubt this has impacted costs on the patient though. Please provide numbers.



Yadda yadda. There will be new rules as we figure this whole thing out. There always are. Whether or not things get more expensive or not is something we can chart and measure. It's worth noting that so far it's clearly not making things more expensive. So do you have a timeline for when the other shoe drops or is it the generic "Democrats are all powerful and when a Republican President takes over they'll drop it to prove a point?" Cus I see that going around alot and all I can say to that is if I'm really that in control shouldn't you focus a lot more on not pissing me off?

Google is you friend if you want citations. There are plenty of them out there.

And, apparently like herbal child, you are incapable of responding to complete thoughts with complete thoughts. Parsing like you do is the sign of a weak mind you know?

Cost to become a doctor? Again google is your friend. Starts at about $230,000 and goes up from there. On a student loan at 7.5% the doctor is going to be paying back close to $1,000,000.

What the rest of the world does is not my concern. And it doesn't seem to be working out very well for them either.

What you were told that was true? Which part? The part about keeping your doctor? The costs going down dramatically? Signing up would be easy? Which part?

You keep asking for citations. I'm not your librarian or paid researcher. Each and everyone of my statements was researched. Finding the info was easy, very easy. Seems to me a clever fellow such as yourself should have no problem finding the info and then trying to find sources to refute said info.

Now we're getting somewhere. Taxes do not effect costs? Do you seriously want to argue that point?

Here's a partial list of the new taxes;

• 2.3% Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers began in 2014

• 10% Tax on Indoor Tanning Services began in 2014 (silly, but still a tax)

• Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

• Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals that fail to comply with the requirements of ObamaCare (This is the one that hits the 'teaching hospitals.)

• Tax on Brand Name Drugs



• Tax on Health Insurers

• Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

• Employer Mandate on business with over 50 full-time equivalent employees to provide health insurance to full-time employees. $2,000 per employee – $3,000 if employee uses tax credits to buy insurance on the exchange (AKA the marketplace). (starting 2015 for employers with 100 or more FTE and 2016 for those with 50 or more.)

• Medicare Tax on Investment Income. 3.8% over $200k/$250k

• Medicare Part A Tax increase of .9% over $200k/$250k


New rules? A nice way of saying more bureaucracy, more inefficiency, higher costs, lower quality of service.

Ishmael
 
Asking for a citation of well publicized facts is the sign of the lazy, the uninformed, and the ignorant.

These mouth breathers get their news from Comedy Central.
 
This thread;

Obamacare, NOT so affordable after all !!

Prompted me to start this thread.

First of all there were some good posts in there. Not entirely on the mark, but good posts none the less. Everyone seemed to have a handle on the cause, at least in their own mind. And many had solutions of one sort or another.

Let me start with the observation that there is NO single simple answer. The Health care system is a tangled web of competing interests all looking out for their own financial interests. And any government solution has, and is, merely exasperating the problem.

Starting with just one piece of the puzzle. The AMA, and other organizations, has actively limited the number of medical school students since the 1960's. The counter-argument is that once the shortage of physicians became acutely apparent they, the AMA, increased the quota by 30%. Unfortunately they are behind in filling that quota. Shortages of anything increase the prices charged.

Add to that the insane cost of medical school on top of that. Doctors are virtually forced into high return specialties for no other reason that to pay off their student loan debt. Further driving costs up and exasperating the shortage of Primary Care physicians.

Then there is another choke point in the system, that being the 3 year residency requirement in a 'teaching' hospital. The slots available have NOT substantially increased and teaching hospitals, which traditionally have treated the indigent, are being punished under "Schuck'N'JiveCare." (Number of patients returning with the same complaints.) While the intent was to increase 'quality' of care by rewarding the hospitals with the lower number of return cases, the results have been to punish those hospitals that provide care for the lowest rung of society.

Then there is the digital record aspect of "Schuck'N'JiveCare" that forces physicians to invest in highly expensive software that requires the services of equally pricey specialty IT firms to maintain the integrity of the systems while protecting against hacking. With all of the patients information ending up in a unified government database that is itself subject to being hacked. And if you think the government is a safe repository of your personal information, I refer you to the recent OPM hack. The complete personal data of 21.5 million current and former government employees, not including their relatives, hacked. The point being the government can't even protect itself. (That hack has cost the government billions of dollars with no end in sight as I type this.) And all of this is at a cost to the patient.

Everything that we were told about "Schuck'N'JiveCare" has essentially turned out to be false. Yes, some 9 million more Americans are insured, but what about the other 37 million that we were told would be insured as well? It's obvious that they have either opted out, or just can't afford the premiums.

The insurance companies are the favored fall guys for the price increases, and to a limited extent there is some truth in that. But it must be remembered that all they do is write the checks. And with the advent of "managed care" they've had to hire a great many more employees to oversee this managed care. And that increased their management overhead, which drives prices upwards as well.

Then there is the new tax on medical devices. (Did you know that applies to your veterinarian as well? Anyone with a pet has seen the effects.) It's folly to think that that hasn't had an impact on costs to the patient.

Layer upon layer of new bureaucratic rules all designed to "fix" things while "things" just get worse and more expensive. The rule of unintended consequences run amok.

Ishmael

[voice=ManBoobPig] B-B-B-B-B-B-B-utt the SUBSIDIES! It's the LAW! You're a LIAR!!!

[/voice]

;) ;)

Good post, great observations.

We're from the government, we're here to help you.
Notable Liberal Mantra
 
One thing to keep an eye on. The Unions are expending a great deal of energy and money to get the "Cadillac Tax" overturned...

:eek:

Yet another death knell (along with the exchanges going broke because the Democrat calculus of gains balancing losses and having a gains pool to reimburse losses turned out to be wading pool meets Marianas Trench).
 
Asking for a citation of well publicized facts is the sign of the lazy, the uninformed, and the ignorant.

These mouth breathers get their news from Comedy Central.

How is the taste of ishiepoo's impotent cock in comparison to ken? Go find a job other than sucking cock you deadbeat.
 
On the other side of the aisle, Adre LOVES Obamacare!


image.php
SSSSSSSshhhhh... I love the plan because it forced up the cost of everyone else's health care to cover my pre-exisitng condition, and I'M RICH! RICH ENOUGH TO BUY AND SELL A_J SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE BREAKFAST!!!...



:smug:


It's what he's thankful for today! No pain, no gain!
 
Of course, health care would be much more affordable for everybody without any government involvement. Thanks a lot, Reagan.

That thanks goes properly to Ted Kennedy, the drunken murdering cowardly Lion of the Senate...

Reagan was put into the same corner as Romney, support it or we begin screaming about how Republicans want people to die due to lack of access to basic health care, sanitation, clean water, clean air, food, condoms, equal opportunity, education, science...,

Republicans! What are the against!

What do you have?

:eek:
 
Originally Posted by phrodeau View Post
Of course, health care would be much more affordable for everybody without any government involvement. Thanks a lot, Reagan.



I nominate fro-to to the Lit Moron Hall of Fame.
 
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