The Female Perspective on "Friends, Enemies, and Exes"

[RootOfTheStory]

Hey everyone, first time posting on the forums.

I've been writing the hell out of my first series on Literotica. Pretty typical harem building mind control story. I have a very vague story idea of where it's going, and I try to let the story progress in a few ways in each chapter. The sex scenes are just whatever pops into my head at the moment I'm writing.

I'm most curious about female perspectives on my writing, whether in an erotic story or not. But in this case especially, what with harem building being a very male fantasy. What is something that you, as a woman, would enjoy reading in this type of story? Should it be darker, gentler, something specific, something general? I'd love any female readers/writers to give their thoughts, and hopefully I can implement something in future chapters.

- RootoftheStory

 

[lustatopia]

Are Harem-building-mind-control stories ever typical?

I never knew that harem-building was a thing. I always thought harems were an ancient convenience that jaded Sheiks acquired in the slave markets.

I'm not a female, so I can't give you any insight into how the fair sex might view harem-building by mind control. However, I know what my wife would say, although she's not the fairest member of that sex.

If were to imagine a world where harem building by mind control was a thing, I might consider creating a warring nation of Amazons who built male harems by mind control too, or conquest or slave trade. This would at least double the number of sexual arrangements possible (math is not my strong suit.) Plus, it might increase the appeal of your story to include at least those women who find the idea of being an Amazonian warrior replete with her own all-male harem an appealing fantasy. Such a plot addition might even tweak my wife's own fading interest in sex.

I'm betting that your female harem is rampant with nubile lesbian sexual encounters, perhaps induced by the master's mind-control during exuberant orgies. Right?

Likewise, I would sketch the Amazons' all-male harem as rife with buff homosexual activity much to the delight of the Amazonian aristocracy, which naturally appreciate hot writhing male-on-male sex just as much as straight dudes get all weak-kneed when the babes start going down on each other.

This again would greatly expand the range of sexual kinks in your story, now threatening to explode into an epic rivaling Dune in scale and scope, only on a erotic, masturbatory level, of course.

 

[Voboy]

I'll be tongue-in-cheek in my response, because I doubt a "right answer" to your question actually exists. It's even slightly offensive treating females as some sort of monolithic bloc with identical views about these kinds of things, but it's your first post. So.

I think you make it better, from a female perspective, if you write of a female mind controller with a male harem.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've read these types of stories before. They can play on two different types of fantasies, one the woman's and one the man's. The man's fantasy is one of control and domination, the woman's is one of submission and surrender. You can play either angle, or you can try to play both if you use third person omnisicent POV, but that would be very ambitious.

From what I've read, these stories tend to go one of two ways. One is from the POV of a male, sometimes a geeky, non-powerful male, who stumbles on something that makes him powerful with women (mind control device or ability). He uses it to control women and gather his harem. This would appeal to many men, but not necessarily to women, I think.

The other is from the POV of a woman who is somehow kidnapped, or fooled into becoming a member of a powerful man's harem. The story becomes one of how she fights and escapes her captor or how she learns to submit to him and enjoy her submission. There are both men and women who enjoy this fantasy.

My recommendation: Write a chapter, or, better yet, a short standalone story that takes place in this universe, submit it, and then ask for input on the story feedback forum. You're much more likely to get helpful advice if your questions are very specific and if you have a sample of work to show people. It's really hard to give good writing advice in the abstract.

 

[NotWise]

Hey everyone, first time posting on the forums.

Welcome aboard, but I have no input for your story.

There is a separate forum (the Story Feedback forum) for requesting feedback on published stories.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

What is something that you, as a woman, would enjoy reading in this type of story? Should it be darker, gentler, something specific, something general? I'd love any female readers/writers to give their thoughts, and hopefully I can implement something in future chapters.

In the third book of the Kushiel's Dart series, the main characters gets captured and thrown into a Harem. It had the sense of a victorian erotic fantasy.

I like that the women there all had enough personality to be feel like real characters. I like that they were competitive with each other. I liked that some were nicer than others. They eventually kill their master, sorry if that's a spoiler.

In short, whoever these bitches are going to be, they have to be full characters. Make sure that each one is distinct and has or had an agenda outside of male, even if they're mind controlled.

Mind control is another discussion altogether. I regard is a subset of horror. It can be humiliation too, but it's mostly horror.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

From what I've read, these stories tend to go one of two ways. One is from the POV of a male, sometimes a geeky, non-powerful male, who stumbles on something that makes him powerful with women (mind control device or ability). He uses it to control women and gather his harem. This would appeal to many men, but not necessarily to women, I think.

I have never enjoyed those kinds of stories. It's too obliviously wish-fullfilly and reeks of 80s/90s era adorkable male stalkers.

I usually make that archetype into villains in my stories.

The other is from the POV of a woman who is somehow kidnapped, or fooled into becoming a member of a powerful man's harem. The story becomes one of how she fights and escapes her captor or how she learns to submit to him and enjoy her submission. There are both men and women who enjoy this fantasy.

This, I can get behind. Or in front of. Or under. I don't know, pick your position. I like either of those set ups.

 

[Ada Stuart]

Hey everyone, first time posting on the forums.

I'm most curious about female perspectives on my writing, whether in an erotic story or not. But in this case especially, what with harem building being a very male fantasy. What is something that you, as a woman, would enjoy reading in this type of story?

- RootoftheStory

It seems that you already have your answer, your story is doing really well based on votes and the red H's.

I read a little of chapter 1 and your writing skills are excellent, but as a woman this does not appeal to me bceause of:

1. Category Mind control
2. Degrading language; A woman calling herself a slut for no reason, is where I jump off the train
3. Harem theme - not a favourite
4. Several women and one man - the other way around is a lot better

Still, bear in mind that most readers in that category and on Lit are men. So, when appealing to a male audience you are doing well already It's not easy to appeal to both genders with the same story.

If you want to have the female perspective it's probably more useful to read stories written by women. Generally you have to start by seducing the mind instead of other body parts

I have never enjoyed those kinds of stories. It's too obliviously wish-fullfilly and reeks of 80s/90s era adorkable male stalkers.

I usually make that archetype into villains in my stories.



This, I can get behind. Or in front of. Or under. I don't know, pick your position. I like either of those set ups.

Totally agreeing with you, Maeven!

 

[ChloeTzang]

I have never enjoyed those kinds of stories. It's too obliviously wish-fullfilly and reeks of 80s/90s era adorkable male stalkers.

I usually make that archetype into villains in my stories.



This, I can get behind. Or in front of. Or under. I don't know, pick your position. I like either of those set ups.

Agreed. I’ve never really enjoyed the harem-type or mind control stories. Mind-control to me is more of a horror genre, harem less so but a female vs male view of a harem is rather different. The real challenge is in writing something that appeals to both male and female readers and that’s tough.

 

[Jing83]

Agreed. I’ve never really enjoyed the harem-type or mind control stories. Mind-control to me is more of a horror genre, harem less so but a female vs male view of a harem is rather different. The real challenge is in writing something that appeals to both male and female readers and that’s tough.

A harem is definitely demeaning. Especially when it's more likely that the average woman can have a larger sexual appetite than an average man for more than 20 minutes. It may be more appropriate for a woman to have a few men instead..!

 

[SimonDoom]

The real challenge is in writing something that appeals to both male and female readers and that’s tough.

Do you think so? My impression is that male readers, as well as female readers, like stories from the female point of view. I'm less certain whether female readers like stories from the male point of view. Your stories are principally from the female point of view, and you obviously have many male fans.

I write stories from both points of view, but I find the female point of view much more interesting.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

Agreed. I’ve never really enjoyed the harem-type or mind control stories. Mind-control to me is more of a horror genre, harem less so but a female vs male view of a harem is rather different. The real challenge is in writing something that appeals to both male and female readers and that’s tough.

For sure mind control is best done as horror. Even if the victim is blissful and happy because of the mind control, there is still something horrific about not having freedom.

The geeky wish fulfillment stuff is what’s truly scary though. Can a frustratedMary sue imagine getting love, sex, a relationship though expanding social skills? Empathy for women? Working on their own personality? Hell, finding a prostitute to love you?

No, apparently magical mind control powers are the only way.

 

[NotWise]

No, apparently magical mind control powers are the only way.

What? Isn't that obvious?

 

[SimonDoom]

For sure mind control is best done as horror. Even if the victim is blissful and happy because of the mind control, there is still something horrific about not having freedom.

The geeky wish fulfillment stuff is what’s truly scary though. Can a frustratedMary sue imagine getting love, sex, a relationship though expanding social skills? Empathy for women? Working on their own personality? Hell, finding a prostitute to love you?

No, apparently magical mind control powers are the only way.

We're talking about fantasy. It's not scary at all, any more than fantasies about incest, rape, poop, feet, hand cuffs, animals, yada yada are scary. The human psyche is dark, twisted, complex, and weird. It's only scary when people act on it and hurt others.

I've read plenty of decent mind control stories that aren't in any way horror.

Some people find the idea of losing control to be pleasant or erotic, not horrific. Others find the same about taking control. There's nothing at all particularly surprising about that.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

We're talking about fantasy. It's not scary at all, any more than fantasies about incest, rape, poop, feet, hand cuffs, animals, yada yada are scary. The human psyche is dark, twisted, complex, and weird. It's only scary when people act on it and hurt others.

I've read plenty of decent mind control stories that aren't in any way horror.

Some people find the idea of losing control to be pleasant or erotic, not horrific. Others find the same about taking control. There's nothing at all particularly surprising about that.

Hey... people can write what they want to write, and I the reader, don’t like everything I read.

My first submission here was a mind control horror story. I don’t expect everyone to like that.

 

[Nexte100]

Your thread title grabbed me, because (as a male) I've always found that men don't write women as well as women write men, and this is something I struggle with as well. Though I'm not in the majority that SimonDoom suggests that prefers to read stories from the female POV.

What made me reply, however, is the fact that I'm working on a similar story and related to your frustrations. I've chosen the easy(er) route in going with a first person POV, however, so it's not quite the same. Though of course I still need to understand how to write women to "get it right".

Partly I'm accepting the fact that I'm writing the story for guys that are looking for a wish fulfillment type of story, using it as a building block of comfortable material that will let me hone my skills before taking on more challenging projects. I fully embrace the fact that my story is more of an episodic "imagined sexy times" type of story with an attempt at a central plot threading it all together rather than something more traditional. Frankly, I just don't think the whole harem sub-genre of erotic lit lends itself to a compelling story unless the central theme is action or adventure or *something* other than the harem building/romance. That's just my opnion, of course, but for a harem story done in a more traditional way "right", I'd look to published authors like Michael Scott-Earle, who is arguably the best in the business, or Cebelius. I suspect you're familiar with both of these names, but obviously they are writing very different stories.

Regarding the permale persona, ofc I'm not qualified to give a good answer to this, but I can tell you what I do (though the degree of my success is probably questionable). I try to imagine what drives the women in the story, and to do this I like to think a little about where they came from, who their family was, and what other influences in their upbringing might have affected their personality. My skill level is such that I probably build characatures more than real characters, but that's my intent.

In my latest story, in order to hook readers and build a decent base, I attempted to jump right in with the sexier stuff with the plan to layer in the character later. Partly I've failed at this because I have a penchant for writing extremely detailed sex scenes, so some of the character stuff takes a back seat. But two of the things I read here resonated with me - I believe in dynamics between women, and I loathe the lesbian relationships that spring out of nowhere. Truthfully, I actually don't even enjoy reading about lesbian encounters, tbh, so stuff like that won't be found in any story I write.

Personally, I try to ask myself "why would the woman want to be with the MC?" If there is no good reason, it doesn't mean you can't cheat a little with the mind control aspect *to start with*, but ultimately I believe that each woman should get a compelling reason to want to be in that situation. As to why they would accept being a part of a harem, obviously that is trickier, but we ARE talking about fantasy here. Part of this may need to be hand waved with elements of the story. But that doesn't mean that you can't have an extremely successful story. Hell, just look at Twilight. Certainly not the most realistic thing in the world that some 100 year old cultured and learned vampire is competing with a werewolf that could get any girl he wants over a girl that is as interesting and pretty as barely steeped tea. There's plenty of demand for that.

 

[Hypoxia]

I missed the story and most of this thread TL/DR but I've written a couple tales where a guy accumulates a harem because he's just that kind of magnet. He listens. A guy can go far by just listening, and reacting appropriately. Mind control or billionaire wealth or dynastic power -- they have their own tropes. But they're not needed here. Write a storyline of women feeling safe and satisfied with a guy who pays attention and rescues them as needed. Rescuers get rewarded. Even by their kinswomen. Think of 'harem' as a gratitude group.

 

[lustatopia]

Gosh, you kids are great!

Great thread, very educational and a bit disorientating to an old fucking coot like myself.

Who knew mind-control harem fantasies were a goddamn thing today?

I can see how in the hands of a horny sexually inexperienced male the idea might sound amazingly appealing as deus ex machina device leading to sex with every girl you ever lusted after. However, if you pick it apart even for a moment the whole fucking idea unravels.

To start with, as Jhing83 points out: the average woman has a sexual appetite that can simply devour the average male's entire capacity to please in one go. So what the fuck is the rest of the harem going to do? Make trouble, is what.

Me thinks if a normal bloke with mind control "built" a harem, he would quickly disband it as he would be overwhelmed by the demand for attention as well as the ensuing intrigues, schemes, treacheries and sheer umbrage that would emanate from a group of naked nymphs held in sexual bondage together. Our so-called hero of the story would be lucky to get out alive!

I'm not making this shit up either. The classic literature on harems going back to ancient Persian poetry is full of tales and actual historic accounts of harems gone treacherously wrong for their princeling masters. It seems to be in the nature of the beast.

https://www.amazon.com/Sultans-Harem-Colin-Falconer/dp/1400083125

Others here have pointed out the harem idea, mind controlled or not, is demeaning to women. True, but that misses the more cogent point. Harems are always historically associated with slavery. A harem fantasy is a slave fantasy. There has never been a harem of volunteers, short of a few weekend orgies the likes of the Rolling Stones threw in the early 1970's.

Harems were also historically fairly equal opportunity. Harem slavery actually occurred to men as well, especially in places like the Persian and Ottoman Empires and further east in Mongolia and China.

(Oh, fuck, I did a Google search. Turns out "Reverse Harem" fantasies are also a YA thing nowadays. Good on ya', ladies!)

Perhaps, the most easily accessible classic about male sexual slavery, which includes harem information is Mary Renault's highly realistic historical fiction, The Persian Boy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Persian_Boy

 

[SimonDoom]

Hell, just look at Twilight. Certainly not the most realistic thing in the world that some 100 year old cultured and learned vampire is competing with a werewolf that could get any girl he wants over a girl that is as interesting and pretty as barely steeped tea. There's plenty of demand for that.

Twilight might have been more interesting from Edward's point of view. He's a more interesting character with a more interesting background, and it would be interesting to find out once and for all what he sees in Bella, your description of whom is dead-on.

There's nothing wrong with male wish fulfillment stories. That's what most superhero stories are. That's what Spiderman is, isn't it? Nerdy kid morphs into Spiderman and shows up the jocks, gets the girl, and wins the love of his community.

 

[rutger5]

Twilight might have been more interesting from Edward's point of view. He's a more interesting character with a more interesting background, and it would be interesting to find out once and for all what he sees in Bella, your description of whom is dead-on.

There's nothing wrong with male wish fulfillment stories. That's what most superhero stories are. That's what Spiderman is, isn't it? Nerdy kid morphs into Spiderman and shows up the jocks, gets the girl, and wins the love of his community.

But that wasn't the story of Spiderman, at least originally written by Stan Lee. Sure he had these super powers but in his real life he was still considered a loser to a degree. Unlike other superheroes like the Fantastic Four he was regarded with suspicion by many, aided by J Jonah Jameson's vendetta no doubt. Hell, the first girl he loved and was loved by, Gwen Stacy, was killed by the Green Goblin. It took years for him to get any respect.

 

[Hypoxia]

But that wasn't the story of Spiderman, at least originally written by Stan Lee. Sure he had these super powers but in his real life he was still considered a loser to a degree.

IIRC Peter Parker never got a harem either -- did I miss that storyline? Maybe replace Spidey with monster R&B performer Screamin' Jay Hawkins, who reportedly fathered children with over 100 women. His huge voice was his superpower, apparently.

Meanwhile, my standard rant on MC: It's mostly for lazy writers. Sure, it can be fun in a stroker. But for anything serious, there must be a price IMHO. The MC'er must suffer for their power, losing vitality, potency, brain cells, whatever. Otherwise it's only a playful romp, okay its place. For a nice twist, the MC'er is subdued and controlled by one or more 'victims'. Hilarity ensues.

 

[Athalia]

How many is a harem? I've just published a story of a man in a relationship with two women, equally shared. Would such a polyamorous setup be considered a harem? If a sequel added another lady to the household, would that be a harem?

But then, I probably wouldn't enjoy reading or writing a story where the women are subordinate to the man. And that's certainly not the case with the people in my story. If anything, one of the women is the one most in control, in that she leads the others into her games.