The end to a begining.

ABSTRUSE

Cirque du Freak
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I recently read an article about starting your stories by writing the end first. It may be of help to some newbies looking for ideas on how to approach enhancing writing techniques.

The author Deborah Cannon , brought up some reasons why editors reject stories. She wrote:

,” The pace of the story was wrong, the story was not complete in itself, the main character was not identifiable or likeable or interesting. Nothing much happened in the story, the character did not have a serious enough problem or didn't solve it by his/herself. The story was too grim or downbeat or boring or offensive.”

Nothing was mentioned about the quality of the writing. The emphasis is on story and character.

She also wrote:

“Something I have recently re-discovered in my never-ending quest to uncover the secrets to writing a "Bestseller" is that you cannot know what your story is about - you can't even begin to write it - if you don't know how it ends. Yes. That's right. You must know how it ends. If you don't know how it ends before you write your story, how can you know what events are needed to get to that end? How will your story make sense? Your story must have a logic to it. Even if it's science fiction or fantasy, it must follow the rules of the world you create. But maybe the most important question is: How will you know what to foreshadow? Foreshadowing is one of the most effective techniques for creating suspense. Without suspense, your story will fall flat.”


Makes sense I guess. I know I tend to build my stories after I’ve discovered who my characters are and then create their situation based on their personalities. Some times it’s the other way around. I think I write under the “Chaos Theory of Abstrusion’.

Here is something else that makes perfect sense. You can’t build a house without a blueprint and you can’t arrive at a destination with out a map. Outlining is also important to writing well. An exception to this was Margaret Mitchell, she did not outline “Gone With the Wind” but started with her last chapter first and worked backwards chapter by chapter. It’s easier to re-write an outline than a first draft.

Now I’ve created a conundrum for myself, I have a story started and I have no clue what is going to happen in the end. Think I should go back to the end and figure it out !.

I also liked this:

“The short story is the universal school for fiction writers. Short stories teach writers how a story works. Because they are short, the author can study the piece from beginning to end.”


I hope this might be of assistance to some people out there who are looking for some writing hints. After all, we learn by sharing, I guess we teach that way also.

~A~noviciate in the school of fiction.
:)
 
Hiya ~A~

You have many interesting points in your post but I didn't see anything about flexibility. I agree that the destination has to be in sight when starting the journey. Events always occur along the way to influence situations at a later date.

Your mention of Chaos Theory caught my eye and I've seen it at work in several places lately. The idea that one seemingly insignificant decision can change the outcome entirely and many of the interactions along the way.

Do you know if there are any exercises that have been posted that would promote this kind of thinking? It may be good for a thread by itself if it's not been done recently. That's the nice thing about starting a new thread, if they don't generate interest they quietly slip to the bottom.


edited to add
Go ahead and disturb the universe. I won't tell anyone it was you.
 
Not sure I agree with this at all. That's what the editing process is for, for tidying up the loose ends, for fixing your foreshadowing, that sort of thing.

I don't pre plan or outline. I just write. Que sera, sera. What will be, will be. What ends up on the page. My 75,000 word NaNo novel was written in that way and the foreshadowing in that worked just fine.

I had, without being consciously aware of it written all of the clues into the preceeding 70,000 words, and when my protagonist put the pieces together at the end, I was as surprised as he was.

The point is: I didn't plan that ending and I didn't plan to lay any of those clues out.

I don't write stories anyway. They write themselves. I am merely the medium of communication. The story's already written by the time I start typing. I just don't consciously know it.
 
ruminator said:
Hiya ~A~

You have many interesting points in your post but I didn't see anything about flexibility. I agree that the destination has to be in sight when starting the journey. Events always occur along the way to influence situations at a later date.

Your mention of Chaos Theory caught my eye and I've seen it at work in several places lately. The idea that one seemingly insignificant decision can change the outcome entirely and many of the interactions along the way.

Do you know if there are any exercises that have been posted that would promote this kind of thinking? It may be good for a thread by itself if it's not been done recently. That's the nice thing about starting a new thread, if they don't generate interest they quietly slip to the bottom.


edited to add
Go ahead and disturb the universe. I won't tell anyone it was you.

I was actually looking for exercises when that caught my eye and I thought it might be worth while for the newer writers. I'll see what I can come up with.
~A~
 
In my novel I had the ending in mind the whole time and worked toward that end, but I came up with some happy surprises along the way that had to be incorporated. The last line of my book was supposed to be one thing, but it just didn't have the punch I was looking for, so I had to write an epilogue that wrapped things up and gave it the true ending.

I guess, for me, it's a matter of having a plan and knowing when to deviate from it. Or even outright abandon it.

I have attempted writing both ways. Totally free form and with a rigid plan. Both ways turned out well and I can't really say if one process was better than the other. Maybe a different process depending on the story. I don't think I would tackle a novel length work without a plan. That is a lot of work to get into and then have to dig myself out of any holes that I might stumble into.

As far as the middle parts of the story, I had a very loose plan all the way through. I knew what I wanted to write, but not necessarily everything I wanted to write. I have three chapters in my book that were never intended to be there, but the story called for them, so there they are.

Creativity is a funny thing. The mix of spontaneity and planning coming together for a desired effect. I think even the most free form story has some form of plan, though. Even if that plan is coming together on the fly. It's just a matter of short term planning or long term planning. A fine line to be sure.
 
Boota said:
Creativity is a funny thing. The mix of spontaneity and planning coming together for a desired effect. I think even the most free form story has some form of plan, though. Even if that plan is coming together on the fly. It's just a matter of short term planning or long term planning. A fine line to be sure.
I definitely agree with this - I think that I practise a form of the short-term planning when I'm writing. I don't know how it's going to end, but I do have a vague idea of the next dozen or so paragraphs.
 
raphy said:

I don't write stories anyway. They write themselves. I am merely the medium of communication. The story's already written by the time I start typing. I just don't consciously know it.
Your too cool and you wear great hats. You may live in my universe now.
~A~
 
ABSTRUSE said:
Your too cool and you wear great hats. You may live in my universe now.
~A~
Errr... What's it like in your universe?
 
In screenwriting, the ending should not only be thought out, but it should pack a punch. It should be both satisfying and surprising. Satisfying, because it should tie loose ends and flow naturally from the preceding events; surprising, because we shouldn't see it coming.

Controlling expectation and anticipation of the ending is what a lot of good screenwriting is about.

Many professional readers for big movie companies will "top and tail" a script - first 5, last 5 pages, before deciding whether to read it. Antoher reason to focus on the ending!

I've posted a "reverse story thread", where you have to add the PRECEDING sentence in the story, starting with the ending.
 
My first few stories for Lit came from knowing what the sex scene would be like in detail. That was the end to which I pointed them. It didn't get written until I came to the point where it would start, but I never knew where that point was.

Then I started just writing and finding that a denoument, as they say, arrived and I could say The End.

My last few stories have been taken from the middle and have no real beginning (except that I gave them one) and end abruptly or promise other things.

The easiest story I wrote was based on Sleeping Beauty, I knew the beginning, the middle and the end, I just had to invent or steal, characters and make it funny.

I haven't the faintest idea which way is 'better'.

I've read somewhere that mysteries are particularly suited to the end first method.

As for your beginning 'struse maybe you've actually written the end and don't realise.

Gauche
 
ABSTRUSE said:
I recently read an article about starting your stories by writing the end first. It may be of help to some newbies looking for ideas on how to approach enhancing writing techniques.

The author Deborah Cannon , brought up some reasons why editors reject stories. She wrote:

,” The pace of the story was wrong, the story was not complete in itself, the main character was not identifiable or likeable or interesting. Nothing much happened in the story, the character did not have a serious enough problem or didn't solve it by his/herself. The story was too grim or downbeat or boring or offensive.”

Nothing was mentioned about the quality of the writing. The emphasis is on story and character.

She also wrote:

“Something I have recently re-discovered in my never-ending quest to uncover the secrets to writing a "Bestseller" is that you cannot know what your story is about - you can't even begin to write it - if you don't know how it ends. Yes. That's right. You must know how it ends. If you don't know how it ends before you write your story, how can you know what events are needed to get to that end? How will your story make sense? Your story must have a logic to it. Even if it's science fiction or fantasy, it must follow the rules of the world you create. But maybe the most important question is: How will you know what to foreshadow? Foreshadowing is one of the most effective techniques for creating suspense. Without suspense, your story will fall flat.”


Makes sense I guess. I know I tend to build my stories after I’ve discovered who my characters are and then create their situation based on their personalities. Some times it’s the other way around. I think I write under the “Chaos Theory of Abstrusion’.

Here is something else that makes perfect sense. You can’t build a house without a blueprint and you can’t arrive at a destination with out a map. Outlining is also important to writing well. An exception to this was Margaret Mitchell, she did not outline “Gone With the Wind” but started with her last chapter first and worked backwards chapter by chapter. It’s easier to re-write an outline than a first draft.

Now I’ve created a conundrum for myself, I have a story started and I have no clue what is going to happen in the end. Think I should go back to the end and figure it out !.

I also liked this:

“The short story is the universal school for fiction writers. Short stories teach writers how a story works. Because they are short, the author can study the piece from beginning to end.”


I hope this might be of assistance to some people out there who are looking for some writing hints. After all, we learn by sharing, I guess we teach that way also.

~A~noviciate in the school of fiction.
:)

I agree to a point that normally an end should be there at the beginning... However! I'm not all that normal, so often begin to write something without a bloody clue how I'm going to end it... Hence the unhealthy length of some things I've written (not here, well not yet) I ramble on looking for a way to end it... often a revolver to the temple seems attractive... I have my NaNo entry still in edit and completion... It now stands at about 68,000 words and I haven't got a f*****g clue how it ends yet.

My biggest failing is actually changing my mind half way through, I begin with an ending in mind... then sort of forget all about that particular ending part way.

I have been guilty of writing to a pre-planned ending though... so all is not lost.
 
Most often my stories don't start with anything other than an idea. What would vampires do if humans were made extinct? This is how the dinosaurs really died out. What happens if a hair growth formula works too well?

However, my Lit stories (still waiting for one, three in progress) seem to start with characters. Then my brain seems to knock the characters together until the defining event of the story emerges.

My Lit stories then usually crystalize around the 'climax' as it were. I write about how the characters got there and what they do after.

So I suppose I do start from the end.
 
Hmmmm?
So, as erotica writers, do some of you start with the sex scene and build around that or do you start with a story concept and add the sex?

~A~
 
ABSTRUSE said:
I recently read an article about starting your stories by writing the end first. It may be of help to some newbies looking for ideas on how to approach enhancing writing techniques.

She also wrote:

?Something I have recently re-discovered in my never-ending quest to uncover the secrets to writing a "Bestseller" is that you cannot know what your story is about - you can't even begin to write it - if you don't know how it ends.?

An exception to this was Margaret Mitchell, she did not outline ?Gone With the Wind? but started with her last chapter first and worked backwards chapter by chapter. It?s easier to re-write an outline than a first draft.

~A~noviciate in the school of fiction.
:)
[/QUOTE.

===========================

Read this earlier, and showed it to a friend. I was promptly shown a novel by Mickey Spillane, "I The Jury," and told that he always started with a slam bang ending, then began with how it all came about. That was a pretty interesting ending, and fairly erotic for the time, I guess. I was told he was one of the most popular writers in the fiftys.

For myself, I'm more like raphy, but have recently discovered the value of writing a "happening" in at the end of my story, then waiting placing it when the situation for it came up, if ever.

mismused
 
I keep experimenting but I find that a clear idea of the main structure of the beginning, developments and end help to keep the storyline from wandering.

As a crime fiction writer once said 'If you introduce an object or a character you must do so for a purpose, if only to mislead.'

It is no use having a sub-plot about the heroine's second cousin if the second cousin doesn't contribute in some way to the main story line. As most of us are writing what are SHORT stories, we must be economical with extraneous matter. What would be OK in a blockbuster of 300,000 words is distracting in a story of 7,500.

That's my view. Other views can be equally valid.

Og
 
rgraham666 said:
Most often my stories don't start with anything other than an idea. What would vampires do if humans were made extinct? This is how the dinosaurs really died out. What happens if a hair growth formula works too well?

rgraham, that's the mark of a Sci Fi writer. Sci Fi is often an exploration of an idea. I also do that.
 
Re: Re: The end to a begining.

mismused said:
Read this earlier, and showed it to a friend. I was promptly shown a novel by Mickey Spillane, "I The Jury," and told that he always started with a slam bang ending, then began with how it all came about.

I actually usually write two 'stories' when I write (not counting sub plots)

There's always the main plot of the story, and there's always the backstory behind the main protagonist. I usually always have that, because my main story takes my protagonist on a journey whereby the backstory has relevance.

In Absolution, Dev (the progatonist) finds himself unwillingly teamed up with the woman he used to love but who 10 years ago betrayed him, got him put in jail and got his partner killed.

In Redemption, Marshall (the protagonist) has to once again protect the life of a girl who he saved from assassination 10 years (that's conicidence) before by killing her father.



So I always work out the backstories - During the course of the novel I have my protagonists explore their feelings and explore what meeting up with their past does to them.

In Absolution, it's like.. What happened 10 years ago? How did she betray him? What effect is that going to happen on their relationship now that they're forced to work together?

In Redemption, there's the 'I saved your life, but I had to kill your father to do it .. I have no idea how you feel about me after all these years.'

It means I end up telling two stories in one, but I only ever work one out before hand (The backstory)
 
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Sub Joe said:
In screenwriting, the ending should not only be thought out, but it should pack a punch. It should be both satisfying and surprising. Satisfying, because it should tie loose ends and flow naturally from the preceding events; surprising, because we shouldn't see it coming.


How do you explain the success of Kill Bill Vol. 2 then?:confused:

Everything in a film is laid out in the first ten minutes as far as my crititical knowledge goes.

As for writing, everyone has their method. Sometimes one knows the end, and can work towards that. Sometimes writing the beginning leads the characters to a perfect ending, and sometimes, it's just a thought, a symbol that makes everything else make sense. :) There is no set formula I think. I write when most inspired to tackle a particular subject. I have several stories going at once, and move between them constantly. I may research something for one story, stumble upon the whole plot for another story.

It's said that Hemmingway would always edit first, write new next and drink the day away.

F. Scott Fitzgerald, I heard had notes of postcards all over the place.

It's all intriguing, and now I am getting caught up in my own thoughts. One might wonder how I could write anything, and write as well as I do ;)
 
Sub Joe said:
rgraham, that's the mark of a Sci Fi writer. Sci Fi is often an exploration of an idea. I also do that.

As you may have noticed I'm a big SF fan. So it made sense that up until I came on Lit that my stories were SF.

That's changing now.
 
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