The Efficacious (Wasted) War on Drugs

[Sh1ne0n67]

[Wasted - Drugs; get it?]

Three years ago, President Donald Trump bragged that "we are making progress" in reducing drug-related deaths, citing a 4 percent drop between 2017 and 2018. That progress, a dubious accomplishment even then, proved fleeting. The upward trend in drug-related deaths, which began decades ago, resumed that very year, and 2020 saw both the largest increase and the largest number ever. That record was broken last year, according to preliminary data that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published this week.

The CDC projects that the total for 2021 will be nearly 108,000 when the numbers are finalized, up 15 percent from 2020, when the number of deaths jumped by 30 percent. Two-thirds of last year's cases involved "synthetic opioids other than methadone," the category that includes fentanyl and its analogs. Those drugs showed up in nearly three-quarters of the cases involving opioids.

Illicit fentanyl, which has become increasingly common as a heroin booster or substitute during the last decade, is now showing up in cocaine, methamphetamine, and counterfeit pills passed off as prescription analgesics or anti-anxiety drugs like Xanax. That phenomenon vividly illustrates the hazards of the black market created by the war on drugs that Trump thought the government was finally winning.

When are we going to get WOKE and end this Reefer Madness?

If people want to Timothy Leary themselves, let them get the fuck to it and be done with them.
Treatment for those who want help is a lot cheaper and more effective than trying to stop the flow of drugs.

I have spoken.

https://reason.com/2022/05/13/a-rec...markably-effective-at-killing-people/Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).
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Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

 

[Chobham]

"Want help" is the operative phrase.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I smoked marijuana lightly for about eleven years. It did not do me any obvious harm, but I took chances on being arrested I would not take now. Back then the punishment for possession of marijuana was more severe than it is now. Back then the only person I knew who had problems had problems because he was arrested.

I never tried to quit. I lost interest. Right now I would not know where to buy any. I think marijuana should be legalized. There are people who should not smoke marijuana, just as there are people who should not drink alcohol. No one should smoke cigaretts.

What I have read about heroin and cocaine tells me that they are very pleasurable and very addictive. Consequently, I do not think it should be legal to sell them, but possession for personal consumption should be de criminalized.

If heroin and cocaine were fully legalized, many people would buy some out of curiosity, like it, buy more, and become addicted. I think that would be harmful for American society.

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

It always is with addiction.

Interdiction had failed miserably.
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Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

 

[Rotadom]

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

I somewhat differ John.

I think people can learn from observation and
I think addicts have a personality that drives them.
Deny the coke and legal wine, beer and spirits sales go up.

Alcohol has just as many negative effects, is highly addictive too,
but living around an alcoholic is absolutely the best deterrent for many people.
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

 

[Chobham]

Let's refer back to the quote in the OP regarding fentanyl.

"Illicit fentanyl, which has become increasingly common as a heroin booster or substitute during the last decade, is now showing up in cocaine, methamphetamine, and counterfeit pills passed off as prescription analgesics or anti-anxiety drugs like Xanax."

We're in a 'truth in advertising' issue here. Virtually everything is being laced with fentanyl. It's a cheap way of pumping up a drug. The problem is that the effects of fentanyl vary dramatically from individual to individual. One person's 'high' is another person's death warrant. Throw in the fact that there really isn't any quality control on the street drugs.

WRT to fentanyl it really is a war. The flow of the drug is China -> Cartels -> user. China is quite literally using the Opium War model against the US (and others). We have to treat it as the war it is.

So what to do? I agree with the treatment model but that will only go so far.

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

We have to bite the economic bullet and up the pressure on the Chinese economy.
I honestly believe that the average Chinese citizen has about had it with Communism.

They want to feed their babies and raise their families too...
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

 

[icanhelp1]

I somewhat differ John.

I think people can learn from observation and
I think addicts have a personality that drives them.
Deny the coke and legal wine, beer and spirits sales go up.

Alcohol has just as many negative effects, is highly addictive too,
but living around an alcoholic is absolutely the best deterrent for many people.
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

I'm well aware of the libertarian view point, let people indulge in what they want and bud out. Unfortunately fentanyl for an unsuspecting user could be a one and done type drug.

The war on drugs should be fought on our border and with countries who are attempting to poison our people. The countries that peddle this shit have very strict drug laws in their own right which should tell us something about what we're dealing with.

Our laws are slowly changing, criminalizing individual users has been found to be creating more problems than it solves and I believe most experts would agree that prosecuting users is a dead end, it creates a criminal label for those that need a helping hand not kicked to the curb. Laws are changing, Drug smugglers and pushers should be charged, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The point of focus should be on education, consultation and rehabilitation taking each individual as a separate case. We need to give these addicted individuals an opportunity to right their lives, if they don't, well, they simply die, but in the meantime they consistently put a great burden on society in so many ways. Homeless has spiralled out of control, many suffering from addiction, emotional and psychological problems and pose a threat to society in general. Those who want the government to bud out, to clutch onto their libertarian ideology of live and let die turn their back on the fact that many impinge on the rights of others, sprawling out in public areas restricting the right for others to access those areas.

We should intensify our interdiction activities to remove these drugs from our streets and do our best to eliminate the source. We can do that with a political commitment to staff and fund the effort. We all know it will never be 100% but that shouldn't deter us from continuing the fight. We have the capability all we need is the will. This poison is finding its way into our young people, in our schools... peddled by cartels and gangs.

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

That's why my position is legalization and corporatizing drugs.
We can legislate corporations, we can test their products, we can recall their products,
we can put them out of business, we can put them in jail and we can, at the same time reduce the costs
and in reducing the costs with the above measure, you end the prohibition, the violence and also improve our
relations with our border neighbors when this is no longer our biggest bone of contention.
I love traveling in Mexico, but I won't go there any more in an era of war.

How much more money do you want to throw at walls and security and prisons and citizen deaths?
None of it has proven the least bit effective. Remember the classic definition of stupid...

 

[Rainblow]

Wasted - *giggle* *snort*

 

[JohnEngelman]

I somewhat differ John.

I think people can learn from observation and
I think addicts have a personality that drives them.
Deny the coke and legal wine, beer and spirits sales go up.

Alcohol has just as many negative effects, is highly addictive too,
but living around an alcoholic is absolutely the best deterrent for many people.
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

I found a few websites that claim that prohibition significantly declined alcohol consumption. The assertions were not documented, but they are still plausible.

I think we need to assume that if any illegal drug is legalized, consumption will increase. Any harm coming from the increase in marijuana consumption is likely to be less serious than the existing harm that comes from diverting funds and attention of the criminal justice system to trying to prohibit marijuana growing, sales, and consumption.

One harm from keeping marijuana illegal is that the stuff one buys on the street can have harmful chemicals in it, most likely herbicides and insecticides, and even poison deliberately injected by an evil person for fun.

To those who claim that marijuana is a gateway drug, I claim that the gateway is provided by prohibition. A drug dealer who can sell you marijuana can probably sell you the hard stuff. This gateway will be closed if legal marijuana can be purchased at a drug store or liquor store.

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

Consumption might increase, but that does not imply that addiction will.

It also might mean that treatment would increase if the stigma of illegality were abrogated.
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

 

[JohnEngelman]

Consumption might increase, but that does not imply that addiction will.

It also might mean that treatment would increase if the stigma of illegality were abrogated.
__________________________________________
Democrat born. Democrat bred. Libertarian led (by Democrats).

Is it possible to take heroin or cocaine without being addicted? That is an honest question. I do not know the answer. For me marijuana was not addictive. I never smoked it heavily. I never tried to quit. I lost interest.

 

[pecksniff]

WRT to fentanyl it really is a war. The flow of the drug is China -> Cartels -> user. China is quite literally using the Opium War model against the US (and others). We have to treat it as the war it is.

Do they even have poppy farms in China? I thought those were mostly in Afghanistan.

 

[pecksniff]

Is it possible to take heroin or cocaine without being addicted?

It is, but there's a high risk of addiction.

 

[Btq97]

Yes legalise , tax and educate. Most of all ensure that the buyer knows what they are getting.

 

[pecksniff]

In Switzerland, junkies can get their heroin fix at government clinics.

Which probably spoils the romantic rebel-against-society, drugstore-cowboy cachet of the whole thing.