The Democrats need to soft-pedal social liberalism, play up economic populism

[pecksniff]

The "culture war" Pat Buchanan declared in 1992 was already won by that time, for all intents and purposes, by the liberal side. All advances made since then -- recognition of same-sex marriage, the beginnings of a transgender-rights movement, etc. -- have been in the nature of what military types call post-victory "mopping up."

The economic war is both more important and more electorally salient. Trump appealed to the white working class by playing on their racial and cultural resentments, but also with a lot of vague economic-populist talk.

Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s. They'll treasure that even if this time around, nonwhites and women and immigrants get the same opportunities. If the Dems can only deliver that, or even show a plausible path to it, the WWC will vote D, and swallow their frustration about SSM or abortion or feminism or the browning of America.

Of course, to even begin to think about delivering that, the Dems will have to set themselves against the plutocracy. Including those parts of it that fund their election campaigns.

 

[CornusKousa]

The "culture war" Pat Buchanan declared in 1992 was already won by that time, for all intents and purposes, by the liberal side. All advances made since then -- recognition of same-sex marriage, the beginnings of a transgender-rights movement, etc. -- have been in the nature of what military types call post-victory "mopping up."

The economic war is both more important and more electorally salient. Trump appealed to the white working class by playing on their racial and cultural resentments, but also with a lot of vague economic-populist talk.

Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s. They'll treasure that even if this time around, nonwhites and women and immigrants get the same opportunities. If the Dems can only deliver that, or even show a plausible path to it, the WWC will vote D, and swallow their frustration about SSM or abortion or feminism or the browning of America.

Of course, to even begin to think about delivering that, the Dems will have to set themselves against the plutocracy. Including those parts of it that fund their election campaigns.

Equal opportunity isn't the problem though, we have that, have for some time.

You guys are after equal outcomes...which has nothing to do with liberalism and in fact more often than not flies in the face of it.

 

[pecksniff]

Equal opportunity isn't the problem though, we have that, have for some time.

First, that is a lie and you know it. Second, the problem here is not equal opportunity but lack of opportunity, for anyone in the working class regardless of ethnicity. That's what the Dems need to address.

 

[Wrong Element]

Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s. They'll treasure that even if this time around, nonwhites and women and immigrants get the same opportunities. If the Dems can only deliver that, or even show a plausible path to it, the WWC will vote D, and swallow their frustration about SSM or abortion or feminism or the browning of America.

I disagree. This is the Bernie Sanders argument, and it's just not true. Trump's voters love him because he channels their hate. They could not care less about substantive issues.

And people who worry about "social liberalism" are typically more willing to sell out the rights of vulnerable people than I am.

 

[pecksniff]

And people who worry about "social liberalism" are typically more willing to sell out the rights of vulnerable people than I am.

My point is that the Dems need to downplay the social liberalism. Even when entirely justified, as it always is, it just plays into the Pubs' hands, gives them emotional red meat for their base, allows them to talk egregious bullshit about "snowflakes" and "fee fees." They can't do that if Dems start talking about taxing the rich heavily or applying some actual industrial policy to bring back American manufacturing jobs.

As for the rights of vulnerable people -- there's no going back. Same-sex marriage, having been recognized, is never going to be abolished. Not even transgenders are going back into the closet. The concerns BLM has raised are not going away until resolved in their favor. If the SCOTUS strikes down Roe v. Wade, that reduces abortion to an ordinary political-electoral-legislative issue without constitutional protection -- which is the worst thing that could happen to the GOP, electorally -- a lot of self-ID'd "pro-lifers" are going to start voting D if faced with the possibility that the Rs might actually shut down the clinics -- after all, many of them do have teenage daughters.

 

[CornusKousa]

First, that is a lie and you know it.

No, it's not a lie.

Ethnic minorities galore are living proof it's not a lie.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/30c0ccd721e2618292aa94ff3874a13d/tenor.gif?itemid=17931626

Second, the problem here is not equal opportunity but lack of opportunity, for anyone in the working class regardless of ethnicity.

I know, because we have equal opportunity.

And it's not a lack of opportunity, it's again a lack of equity.

People don't want to be Mr. or Ms. works their ass off for 15/hr.

They want to be Instagram star millionaires and generation participation trophy is throwing a colossal hissy fit that a free society doesn't monetarily reward them for their mediocrity or just because they exist.

They're made they have to do something for their money....like children mad they have to clean their room.

That's what the Dems need to address.

Yes, by taking away the "free" bullshit and telling the (Wo)man children to grow the fuck up.

 

[Rightguide]

No, it's not a lie.

Ethnic minorities galore are living proof it's not a lie.


I know, because we have equal opportunity.

And it's not a lack of opportunity, it's again a lack of equity.

People don't want to be Mr. or Ms. works their ass off for 15/hr.

They want to be Instagram star millionaires and generation participation trophy is throwing a colossal hissy fit that a free society doesn't monetarily reward them for their mediocrity or just because they exist.

They're made they have to do something for their money....like children mad they have to clean their room.



Yes, by taking away the "free" bullshit and telling the (Wo)man children to grow the fuck up.

I just saw a Tic Tok video where a black kid was saying he didn't want to ever have to work doing anything to earn money to buy anything, that everything people need or want should be free for the taking. So, I think the biggest thing we need are teachers who actually know something and schools that will teach it.

 

[ll74]

No, it's not a lie.

Ethnic minorities galore are living proof it's not a lie.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/30c0ccd721e2618292aa94ff3874a13d/tenor.gif?itemid=17931626



I know, because we have equal opportunity.

And it's not a lack of opportunity, it's again a lack of equity.

People don't want to be Mr. or Ms. works their ass off for 15/hr.

They want to be Instagram star millionaires and generation participation trophy is throwing a colossal hissy fit that a free society doesn't monetarily reward them for their mediocrity or just because they exist.

They're made they have to do something for their money....like children mad they have to clean their room.



Yes, by taking away the "free" bullshit and telling the (Wo)man children to grow the fuck up.

People realize their time is more.valuable than employers want to pay because other people have demonstrated differently.

But yes....the employees fault¯ \_(ツ)_/¯

 

[pecksniff]

People don't want to be Mr. or Ms. works their ass off for 15/hr.

They want to be Instagram star millionaires . . .

Ideally. But most would be satisfied with well-paid blue-collar jobs like their grandfathers had.

 

[CornusKousa]

Ideally. But most would be satisfied with well-paid blue-collar jobs like their grandfathers had.

Define "well paid"....again we come back to some subjective shit.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

First, that is a lie and you know it. Second, the problem here is not equal opportunity but lack of opportunity, for anyone in the working class regardless of ethnicity. That's what the Dems need to address.

I'm sure they'll get right on that. They love the racist, sexist, transphobic, Islamophobic blue collar guy as much as anyone.

 

[CornusKousa]

People realize their time is more.valuable than employers want to pay because other people have demonstrated differently.

But yes....the employees fault¯ \_(ツ)_/¯

What are you talking about?

If other people have demonstrated differently then why are they begging the government to make 15/hr happen instead of getting that sweet ass Instagram money for being beautiful and or exceptionally personable??

 

[pecksniff]

Define "well paid"....again we come back to some subjective shit.

"Well-paid" means a middle-class income and benefits, enough to get a house in the burbs and college for the kids, like blue-collar Americans did have in the 1950s and 1960s. That period when, for the first time in American history, the division between the working class and the middle class faded, to the point where the pundits could use the two terms as synonyms, which they still do to some extent.

 

[pecksniff]

I'm sure they'll get right on that. They love the racist, sexist, transphobic, Islamophobic blue collar guy as much as anyone.

They love his vote, anyway. And they'll get it if they can get him what he needs economically.

 

[ll74]

What are you talking about?

If other people have demonstrated differently then why are they begging the government to make 15/hr happen instead of getting that sweet ass Instagram money for being beautiful and or exceptionally personable??

When other people in another industry do less work for more money, and you don't know anything about the industry.....how do you think that impacts people in a different industry?

Do they want to go learn about the other industry, sure...but the majority of people just see they're being exploited for their work.. because that's how human beings operate.

If you were one, you might get it

 

[CornusKousa]

"Well-paid" means a middle-class income and benefits, enough to get a house in the burbs and college for the kids, like blue-collar Americans did have in the 1950s and 1960s. That period when, for the first time in American history, the division between the working class and the middle class faded, to the point where the pundits could use the two terms as synonyms, which they still do to some extent.

That was a golden era, and microcosm and anomaly largely caused by WWII, the boomers went all out with it and it's not coming back. The world has recovered and the competition is real.

On the upside, because of this golden era, even our working poor today still live objectively better for less than our middle class did 70 years ago.

I mean even our homeless people are fat....that's fucking crazy.

 

[CornusKousa]

When other people in another industry do less work for more money, and you don't know anything about the industry.....how do you think that impacts people in a different industry?

Makes the childish ones envious.

But at the end of the day having a hissy fit over the fact you're not a rock star or whatever doesn't do any good or accomplish anything.

Do they want to go learn about the other industry, sure...but the majority of people just see they're being exploited for their work..

They're not being exploited though, that's what the paycheck is!!

because that's how human beings operate.

If you were one, you might get it

No, that's how CHILDREN operate.

Adults realize they're a 4 and never getting paid mega bucks to be good looking.... or be a rock star....baller whatever.

Adults realize flipping burgers isn't a career path to a life of riches, so they go learn a skill and hustle a living doing something a little less rich and fabulous.

Like plumber, accountant, carpenter, mechanic, welder, etc. and make very good livings despite the lack of a Malibu mansion.

 

[WillJ8787]

The "culture war" Pat Buchanan declared in 1992 was already won by that time, for all intents and purposes, by the liberal side. All advances made since then -- recognition of same-sex marriage, the beginnings of a transgender-rights movement, etc. -- have been in the nature of what military types call post-victory "mopping up."

The economic war is both more important and more electorally salient. Trump appealed to the white working class by playing on their racial and cultural resentments, but also with a lot of vague economic-populist talk.

Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s. They'll treasure that even if this time around, nonwhites and women and immigrants get the same opportunities. If the Dems can only deliver that, or even show a plausible path to it, the WWC will vote D, and swallow their frustration about SSM or abortion or feminism or the browning of America.

Of course, to even begin to think about delivering that, the Dems will have to set themselves against the plutocracy. Including those parts of it that fund their election campaigns.

If Dems focused on jobs for all... include traditional working class white folks....they would win every election. Dems have some issues with logical thinking for sure.

But, it is no where close to to the cess pool Repubs abide in.

 

[pecksniff]

Do they want to go learn about the other industry, sure...but the majority of people just see they're being exploited for their work.. because that's how human beings operate.

If you're lucky you get exploited -- instead of unemployed.

 

[CornusKousa]

If you're lucky you get exploited -- instead of unemployed.

^^ Considers the "exploitation" of employment, a free an voluntary exchange of goods and services, to be lucky.

I knew you were a capitalist at heart peck.

Probably make your calls for socialism from an iSomething while sipping your Starbucks too don't ya??

 

[pecksniff]

^^ Considers the "exploitation" of employment, a free an voluntary exchange of goods and services, to be lucky.

I knew you were a capitalist at heart peck.

Probably make your calls for socialism from an iSomething while sipping your Starbucks too don't ya??

I am pointing out that the real problem is that the American plutocracy no longer need the American working class, and they know it. But the working class is still here, and they've gotta get a living somehow. The Dems need to focus on that fact to win their votes.

 

[pecksniff]

It appears the present admin is following this advice -- all the important WH initiatives have been economic.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

First, that is a lie and you know it. Second, the problem here is not equal opportunity but lack of opportunity, for anyone in the working class regardless of ethnicity. That's what the Dems need to address.

The Democrats couldn't be any more contemptuous of the white working class. They're the party of the faculty lounge now, and despise the masses.

 

[WillJ8787]

The "culture war" Pat Buchanan declared in 1992 was already won by that time, for all intents and purposes, by the liberal side. All advances made since then -- recognition of same-sex marriage, the beginnings of a transgender-rights movement, etc. -- have been in the nature of what military types call post-victory "mopping up."

The economic war is both more important and more electorally salient. Trump appealed to the white working class by playing on their racial and cultural resentments, but also with a lot of vague economic-populist talk.

Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s. They'll treasure that even if this time around, nonwhites and women and immigrants get the same opportunities. If the Dems can only deliver that, or even show a plausible path to it, the WWC will vote D, and swallow their frustration about SSM or abortion or feminism or the browning of America.

Of course, to even begin to think about delivering that, the Dems will have to set themselves against the plutocracy. Including those parts of it that fund their election campaigns.

".... Well, what the WWC wants more than anything else is an adequate supply of blue-collar jobs that pay middle-class salaries, like it was in the 1950s and 1960s"

Correct and this is a biggie....so, how does one attract manufacturers back to this country from other low wage centers round the world? If we are talking tech. or tech industry support staff(since we are talking white working class which means under educated and not qualified for much) how does one get them back into the areas that have large WWC population?

And, how are we going to get Democrats to realize they need to implement the answers to the above two questions?

 

[pecksniff]

And, how are we going to get Democrats to realize they need to implement the answers to the above two questions?

The real challenge is, convincing them that needs doing even if it means giving up all that sweet plutocrat-funding.