The Democratic 'Tax Plan'

Ishmael

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The democrats are getting to roll out a $1 trillion dollar plan. The republicans are going to call it a tax increase. and to an extent they'd be right.

The democrats are going to say it's just an offset plan, and to an extent they'd be right too.

The issue is the 'Alternative Minimum Tax' that is about to shaft millions of middle class taxpayers due to bracket creep. Both the democrats and republicans agree that this has to be taken care of (ie. eliminated). However, the democrats insist on offsetting the lose of revenues with new taxes. The leaked plan calls for the rich, single taxpayers with incomes over $100k and married taxpayers with incomes over $200k to be hit with a 4% pre-tax surcharge. All well and good and perfectly in keeping with the democratic policy of 'sticking it to the rich.' This is computed to recover $100 billion/year over the next 10 years.

And this is where it gets sticky. IF the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, which they will if a democrat wins the white house in '08, only $300 billion need be recovered. So this is, in reality, a $700 billion tax hike. The republicans have a point. But, because it is intended to offset 'lost' revenues, the democrats can argue that point with equal force.

The real problem is that the Bush tax cuts have given the collection of tax revenues a shot in the arm far beyond expectations. But this has been known for years. Tax cuts, up to a point, have always led to increased tax receipts. And the deficit is shrinking faster than originally projected even in the face of the Iraq expenses.

And tax increases have always led to a slow down in the economy and consequently tax receipts.

Congress, both democrats and republicans, seem to be so addicted to spending that the thought of just making the AMT go away hasn't crossed their minds. It seems to be beyond their grasp that a reduction in spending is just as effective as increasing taxes when it comes to deficit control.

It also hasn't occured to them that as inflation continues to erode the value of the dollar that their solution only sets a new threshold to be dealt with when a married couple making $200k a year is only mid-middle class. I'm sure that those numbers may seem like heady stuff to the youngsters on the board, but those numbers are within your future.

And the whole 'stick it to the rich' mantra may sound like a good idea today, but may not have as sweet a sound in your future.

The sum of good government is one "which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned." Thomas Jefferson

Ishmael
 
I do believe they plan to tax us...

Neither side is going to wake up until we hit malaise again. The only thing I have to postulate is that the Democrats will get us there quicker and leave us saddled with more legacy baggage.
 
Ishmael said:
The issue is the 'Alternative Minimum Tax' that is about to shaft millions of middle class taxpayers due to bracket creep. Both the democrats and republicans agree that this has to be taken care of (ie. eliminated). However, the democrats insist on offsetting the lose of revenues with new taxes. The leaked plan calls for the rich, single taxpayers with incomes over $100k and married taxpayers with incomes over $200k to be hit with a 4% pre-tax surcharge. All well and good and perfectly in keeping with the democratic policy of 'sticking it to the rich.' This is computed to recover $100 billion/year over the next 10 years.
I'd end up paying the Alternative Minimum tax AND another 4% on top of that? :mad: I don't mind paying a LITTLE more than my share but it's getting ridiculous to expect me to pay that much more.

We need a flat tax system, period.
 
We HAVE a flat tax system.

As soon as we get a new one, Congress will start amending it to get deals for their buds...

The Fair Tax is a better way to limit the divide and conquer behavior.
 
All they have to do is propose a 8% pre-tax surcharge, pass a 4% and claim they cut taxes by half.
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
I do believe they plan to tax us...

Neither side is going to wake up until we hit malaise again. The only thing I have to postulate is that the Democrats will get us there quicker and leave us saddled with more legacy baggage.

If the dems win, the stock market will fall because of the anticipated tax increase (and the anticipated downturn in the economy it will cause) and things will start looking dicey. The dems, of course, trying to steer blame for the failing economy that they know that they'll cause, will blame it on Bush and the Republicans and have someone make up some numbers that "will show" conclusively that the economy started turning down before they got there. The American people who don't remember Jimmy Carter will buy that for a while....

Of course, four years from now after the dems have completely made a shambles of the economy and unemployment is up to 8 or 10% will continue to blame Bush and the Republicans....but the American people will say to themselves...whoops, we screwed up again...lets get the Republicans back in there before we're all unemployed.

Lets just skip the downturn part and not let the dems get elected in 2008 (and extend the tax breaks by making them permanent, index the AMT like we indexed social security and reduce spending).
 
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it's...let me take more of what you earn and wonder why you spend/invest less? humm?? they didn't teach this in my Liberal arts college?
 
I want to win the war and I hope we stay there till its done...but I hope we can make "done" soon so we can reduce spending. This is putting a strain on the economy. Of course, it makes me cringe when I hear the dems say "We have to stop the war now and we can take all the money we "save" and give it to babies, and trees, and bugs, and friends and cousins and doctors and nurses and everyone will be so happy".

We can just reduce spending and run surpluses for a while until we get our $9 Trillion debt reduced a little.
 
No. This election will not be about issues. It will be about the cult of personality and in that, the Republicans cannot compete, the mob wants Bill and a retreat from the world stage, they've had their fill of fighting, they want the government to now focus on them, and so it will...
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
No. This election will not be about issues. It will be about the cult of personality and in that, the Republicans cannot compete, the mob wants Bill and a retreat from the world stage, they've had their fill of fighting, they want the government to now focus on them, and so it will...

The ascendancy of emotion over leadership and logic again eh? How do you think that Hillary will manifest her powerlust if she gets elected? Will she seduce interns?
 
Cap’n AMatrixca said:
The "war" is not straining the economy. Government is...

$50-100B a year is a strain no matter how you cut it. Reducing spending in other parts of the gov budget would be helpful, but that's a big chunk.

Reducing our dues to the UN would be a good first step...not get rid of it, just put it on a stricter diet.
 
Maybe she'll personally interview the people she wants to work in the travel office.

Will she terrorize secret service agents again? What in the world will she do to the marines?
 
Cheyenne said:
I'd end up paying the Alternative Minimum tax AND another 4% on top of that? :mad: I don't mind paying a LITTLE more than my share but it's getting ridiculous to expect me to pay that much more.

We need a flat tax system, period.

No, the AMT would go away under the plan proposed. You'd only get nailed for the 4% pre-tax surcharge.

I wonder what catchy name they'll come up with for that tax though. :)

Ishmael
 
RightField said:
The ascendancy of emotion over leadership and logic again eh? How do you think that Hillary will manifest her powerlust if she gets elected? Will she seduce interns?


SHE won't do anything other than go along with the Democrat Congress' nonsense (like Bush) so that she has plausible deniablity. She'll continue to make speeches and offer plans, make goals, and issue vague promises to protect the children, minorities, and now, the middle-class. But she won't make the health care mistake ever again thanks to the guidance (past) of the toe-sucker, who added another chapter to her Alinsky book: How the Radical Maintains Power Achieved...
 
We know she'll bring the Marines home. Those Blues look snappy serving appetizers...

She'll put them in their proper place.
 
Ishmael said:
No, the AMT would go away under the plan proposed. You'd only get nailed for the 4% pre-tax surcharge.

I wonder what catchy name they'll come up with for that tax though. :)

Ishmael
What's the 4% calculated on... tax due? income?
 
Yep, Congress is a collective idiot, and everyone in it follows the party line, kneejerk, lockstep and :avery:.

If the Bush tax cuts were such a great deal, they won't be expired. Even Congressional Democrats can figure that out.
 
Cheyenne said:
What's the 4% calculated on... tax due? income?

The precise details aren't out yet, but what has been leaked is that it's 4% of unadjusted gross income. Then you get to figure your taxes. What isn't clear is whether you get to figure your taxes on the income before or after the 4% is taken. (ie. whether the 4% is deducted as part of the adjusted gross)

Ishmael
 
i've always wondered what the argument against the amt could possibly be. it would actually be immoral to eliminate it.
 
paganangel said:
i've always wondered what the argument against the amt could possibly be. it would actually be immoral to eliminate it.
You have no clue what it is or how it is calculated, do you?
 
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