The Death Penalty

[Ramone45]

The pope has changed the official position of the Catholic Church on this issue. I think the death penalty can be moral. I think there are some people who are so evil and commit acts so heinous, that society is justified in permanently removing them. It's possible that some of these people have a irredeemable defect which science has not yet identified. I think there are cases where the death penalty is the morally justified punishment. The pope opposes the death penalty because it violates human dignity. Doesn't depriving a person of freedom for the rest of their life also violate human dignity? If a person converts and reforms in prison, shouldn't they be released?

 

[nowisthetime]

I've always admired this Pope for many reasons. I was raised Catholic as well.

The modern Catholic Church has for a long time, looked disapprovingly on the death penalty.

Unlike many evangelicals, who fume over abortion yet are joyful regarding the death penalty, at least he remains consistent.

 

[Rightguide]

The pope has changed the official position of the Catholic Church on this issue. I think the death penalty can be moral. I think there are some people who are so evil and commit acts so heinous, that society is justified in permanently removing them. It's possible that some of these people have a irredeemable defect which science has not yet identified. I think there are cases where the death penalty is the morally justified punishment. The pope opposes the death penalty because it violates human dignity. Doesn't depriving a person of freedom for the rest of their life also violate human dignity? If a person converts and reforms in prison, shouldn't they be released?

No, prison is a punishment for previous actions. Once you murder another human being you forfeit any right for further existence in my book. God is the great redeemer, let him forgive.

 

[jaF0]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

I think all religion in all forms is pure hooey, but we must never allow barbarism. The US should abolish it outright and refuse to do any business at all with countries who practice it.

 

[RobDownSouth]

No, prison is a punishment for previous actions. Once you murder another human being you forfeit any right for further existence in my book. God is the great redeemer, let him forgive.

How many Vietnamese civilians did you murder in the 'Nam, Gunny?

 

[about_average]

Well, it did take them a long time to admit Galileo was right.

 

[phrodeau]

It's odd to see a Pope contradicting scripture.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Not a big fan of the death penalty under any circumstance outside of external enemies of the State. It's not that I think any of these people can be rehabilitated, but they can be studied and out of that, some good may come of it for the future.

Life is a precious thing and when the State gets into the business of taking it, then there is no limit to the taking of it, in a sense, the State becomes a lot like the criminal it executes.

 

[Ramone45]

No, prison is a punishment for previous actions. Once you murder another human being you forfeit any right for further existence in my book. God is the great redeemer, let him forgive.

I agree. We are human and imperfect. As a Jesuit famously told me, "I dispense justice, let the Lord dispense mercy."

 

[God_Above]

I agree. We are human and imperfect. As a Jesuit famously told me, "I dispense justice, let the Lord dispense mercy."

I do none of that. I thin the evil herd with diseases and disasters.

 

[phrodeau]

I do none of that. I thin the evil herd with diseases and disasters.

Bet you can't bring back smallpox.

 

[ryan8558]

Bet you can't bring back smallpox.

I've wondered if this is possible. Do people still get smallpox vaccinations?

 

[Rightguide]

I agree. We are human and imperfect. As a Jesuit famously told me, "I dispense justice, let the Lord dispense mercy."

Damn right.

 

[Weird Harold]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

Should be "Thou shalt not commit murder" but like many other parts, King James' translators got it slightly wrong.

An execution is not murder.

 

[God_Above]

Bet you can't bring back smallpox.

Can you afford to cover that, perhaps with your soul?

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/c...pox-virus-could-be-resurrected-global-warming

 

[Bookishleigh]

I've always admired this Pope for many reasons. I was raised Catholic as well.

The modern Catholic Church has for a long time, looked disapprovingly on the death penalty.

Unlike many evangelicals, who fume over abortion yet are joyful regarding the death penalty, at least he remains consistent.

It always amused me to hear someone say life is precious and therefore abortion is wrong but then clamber for the death penalty. Taking the religious aspect out of it, however, there are definite cons to the death penalty. JaF0 said we should stop dealing with countries who do endorse the death penalty; however, some countries are already doing that to us by refusing to export or supply the drugs we use for lethal injection. So you had a rash of botched injections (Clayton Lockett, Joseph Wood, Dennis McGuire) because we had to start trying out other concoctions.

Also, when a person is convicted and sentenced to death they are automatically guaranteed the right of appeal. Some states even make it mandatory to appeal a death penalty conviction. This costs money and given that the person is incarcerated they are not paying for it. Even if that appeal is denied, a person convicted of the death penalty may appeal to the Supreme Court. Again, this all costs money. Even if a person opts not to exercise their appellate right, death penalty inmates are housed differently than those who are sentenced to life in prison. There are some statistics that state the cost to house someone for life is less than a death penalty inmate.

But I'm going to step off my soapbox now....

Should be "Thou shalt not commit murder" but like many other parts, King James' translators got it slightly wrong.

An execution is not murder.

One man's execution is another man's murder. The Bible is quite inconsistent on the death penalty...and even in some passages condones the death penalty for slavery, battering a family member, etc.

Here is an entire slew of biblical quotes, all contradictory in nature. Since you appear to be an expert on what was really meant, please get back to us when you have solved all these little discrepancies.

 

[jaF0]

JaF0 said we should stop dealing with countries who do endorse the death penalty; however, some countries are already doing that to us by refusing to export or supply the drugs we use for lethal injection.

And many countries, including Canada, will not extradite a prisoner to the US if there is any chance they will face it. Authorities here must sign off that they will not seek it before the transfer is approved.

 

[oggbashan]

I find it difficult to understand the rules around the death penalty in the US.

When we had the death penalty in the UK, the time for appeal procedures, including to the highest possible court, rarely exceeded three weeks. If there was no appeal, the execution would take place within two or three days. After the final appeal had been rejected, again execution followed very quickly. We didn't have a Death Row holding people for years.

But we now know that in the 20th Century some innocent people were executed in England.

What many people in the UK have difficulty in accepting is that a 'life' sentence, which was supposed to replace the death penalty, rarely means imprisonment for life even for the most terrible crimes. The convicted offender is usually out of prison, if on licence with restrictions, after only 12 years. That does not seem to be proportionate.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

I think all religion in all forms is pure hooey, but we must never allow barbarism. The US should abolish it outright and refuse to do any business at all with countries who practice it.

The correct commandment is Thou Shalt Not Murder

https://biblehub.com/exodus/20-13.htm

We need to use the death penalty more often, expand the crimes it can be used for to include rape, child rape, child molestation, animal abuse, and recidivist criminals.

 

[jaF0]

I find it difficult to understand the rules around the death penalty in the US.

Written by lawyers to benefit lawyers financially.

 

[jp55665566]

Written by lawyers to benefit lawyers financially.

Trial Lawyers Union is a huge lobbyist in Congress. They need to go.

 

[Bookishleigh]

And many countries, including Canada, will not extradite a prisoner to the US if there is any chance they will face it. Authorities here must sign off that they will not seek it before the transfer is approved.

If Canada just weren't so damn cold.....

Trial Lawyers Union is a huge lobbyist in Congress. They need to go.

Riiiiiiiigggghhhht. Along with insurance companies, defense spending, and of course the NRA.

Maybe all interest groups should go.

 

[Libsam]

I'm not pro-Capital Punishment, but I've heard some very good arguments from atheist empiricist who point out the cost of housing inmates for life. I can't remember the numbers but I remember being blown away upon hearing them.

So not only does the murderer harm society by taking an innocents life, then they continue to harm society in the way of being a financial burden.

We need to put them back to work, I don't believe it is cruel or inhumane to make them work.

 

[Saint_Ann]

It's odd to see a Pope contradicting scripture.

Not the first time either.

 

[RubyJulie]

We need to use the death penalty less. Innocent people have been executed because of it and it's barbaric and disgusting. These religious people need to get over the fact that God and politics don't mix.