The 'D' word

[rgraham666]

Finally remembered to start this thread.

Twice over the last year, I've asked women out for a date.

Yes, that's the dreaded 'D' word.

Actually I asked them out for dinner, but I mentioned the 'D' word. As soon as I did, the temperature between us made a very noticeable drop.

I'm wondering why.

Myself, date, first one anyways, simply means that I'm sending a signal that I'm attracted to them and am taking an opportunity to get to know them better. I am not, repeat, not expecting to get laid. I mean, it would be nice, but if I expect it I know I'm expecting waaaay too much.

My question is, why does a date seem to frighten women so?

 

[Desamy]

One reason could be (and don't take offense to this) your age and the age of the women you're dating. I think that grown women don't necessarily want to go on 'dates'. It's very much a term I would expect to hear associated with, well, young people and teenagers.

With this said, I'm young, happily married, and I never dated, as such. The 'dating scene' never appealed to me.

Maybe going out to dinner is a preclude to.. the date? Testing the waters before seeing if there IS potential for more. But it might be scary to hear that word and think of the expectation behind it, as far as.. having to continue on with date after date after date!

Forget labels, go to dinner.

 

[Guest]

Good question RG.

That's been a question on my mind over the past few years. Several times I have asked women that I was attacted to, and felt the attraction was mutual, out for dinner. A time, date and place are agreed on and I say, "Great it's a date." Then I get a response like, "No! No, it's not a date we're just going out to dinner."

Now understand when I say, "It's a date." I don't ncassarily mean a "date" date. It's just an expression, an acknowledgement that we have agreed when and where to meet. That's all. But then isn't that what a date is? Two people who are interested in each other get together and have dinner, maybe go to a movie, go dancing, you know, have "fun" together and see if they are compatable. But the mention of that word these days seems to be a felony offense in the eyes of women. I don't understand it.

Is it because "date" has become politicly incorrect? Because hookers use the term "date" for an hour with a John? Is that what women think men are expecting? That we're going to buy them dinner ask for sex and never speak to them again if we don't get it?

Ok, I know some men are like that. Not all of us. Hell I was told last year by one woman I went out with that she didn't want to see me again because I didn't drag her back to my place for sex. But every time I touched her that night she pulled away. Someone explain that to me.

I don't "expect" anything, from a date or a relationship. I don't go antwhere with anyone intending to demand anything. I am not going to hang up the phone after making a "date" and rush right down to the drugstore to buy a box of Trojans. If sex happens then it happens. If it doesn't I'm not going to toss her to the street and tell her to get lost. That's just not me.

All I have ever asked of anyone is that they simply tell me what's on their mind. That's all. If you don't think it's working out, tell me. But please tell me why. If you want to have wild animal sex, just say it. Don't ignore me all night pull away if I brush your arm, press yourself against the passenger door like you're going to jump out at the next red light then get pissed because I didn't sleep with you. If you enjoyed yourself and want to see me again say so. But don't say it then avoid me in the hopes I'll get bored and leave you alone.

That's all I ever asked of anyone. And I have always returned in kind.

So, I'm dying to know, ladies, why is date a four letter word?

 

[GingerV]

I'm so totally guessing here.....Date isn't a 4 letter word to me (and not just because I'm not the world's most consistent spelller). But maybe it's because some women have it stuck in their head that if a "date" doesn't work out, the next meeting is awkward. So much so that you can't then just be friends.

They may be more comfortable with that imaginary pressure lifted from the event, starting as friends, and letting something more emerge if it happens. Without the romantic implications of Dating, they may think you have better chances of staying friends.

But do rest assured, it's not all of us. Keep asking, you'll find someone who shares your view.

G

 

[CharleyH]

Date. Hm, thought the word referred to a particular type of fruit. Nonetheless, I agree with a few things already said particularly the fact that the word 'date' conjures up the image of a second 'date' and the immediate feeling that if I say yes to a date, then I am also saying yes to the possibility of intimacy. If I decide after the 'date' that I don't want anything further to happen, then I have to hurt someone. Date implies more than a friendly dinner.

As for dinner RG - personally, I do not know why men take women to dinner on a first date. I prefer to suggest appetizers and drinks in a funky place with amazing atmosphere and great music playing in the background for a few reasons:

1) What if you enjoy her company, but dinner is over? You give her an opportunity to escape before she's drunk

2) What if you find you don't particularly enjoy her company and are stuck for three hours in a restaurant?

3) Appetizers, you can have as many as you like, and it can go as long or as short as you want it.

4) Appetizers, you end up sharing , and deciding together, which is a sly way to make it a date.

5) How cool is that? Appetizers, music, conversation and drinks, possibly even going to a few different places, or maybe just so engaged that you close the place.

6) Appetizers are much more casual than a formal dinner.

"Apps or Sassafraz? 101", by Charley.

 

[Marsipanne]

The 'Date' word seems to suggest some sort of attachment. If you say 'we're dating' that seems to lead on to 'we're in a relationship' and women don't want to pin themselves down with the word 'date' as it might trap them later on.

 

[Liar]

Dates have always fascinated me. I have tried to study the concept for years now, but I still don't quite get what constituted a date. When is something a date and when is it just two people with interrest in eachother spending quality time together?

From what I've learned about the phenomena though, I don't think I ever went on a typical date. Noone I know ever went on a date, and frankly when bringing up the subject, everyone scratches their head and asks "Isn't that, like, something they do only in half bad Hollywood romantic comedy movies?"

#L

 

[shereads]

RG, don't despair. My mom, in her 70's and widowed for seven years, refused to go out on a date. The gentleman, in his 80's (Do men ever get over the younger-woman thing?) offered all sorts of reassurances (including the unspoken assurance that their mutual heart ailments and overall frailty would prevent any athletic naughtiness )but she insisted there would be no date.

He tried calling her and reading the Webster's definition of "date." Such a harmless little word. Still no dice. "I don't date!"

He eventually wised up and asked her out to dinner, no date. He did draw the line at letting her pay half. Two years later, they're nearly inseparable. They dance. They hold hands. They kiss in public. I've seen him cop a feel of my mom's ass while they played a duet of "Amazing Grace."

(Yeesh!)

They might even date, but I haven't heard her call it that.

~ ~ ~

RG, for a woman of any age, dating has come to mean being test-driven as a potential partner. Despite your assurances that you have no wicked plans, and despite her possible interest in you, she may think that agreeing to a date means there's an unspoken agreement that the two of you will spend the evening evaluating each other. After the mutual evaluation comes the inevitable moment of truth: "Are we/Is he attracted? Will there be more dates, or does one of us have to politely insult the other?"

Dinner, on the other hand, just means having dinner and some conversation. No moment of truth.

Try dropping the D word from your vocabulary, and eliminating the unspoken threat of awkwardness.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Don’t take it personally.

So many people – not only women – were traumatized by dating that merely using THAT WORD makes many of them want to run away gibbering.

Using some kind of roundaboutation, like CharleyH or GingerV suggested is one way of sneaking up on a woman.

I do not know how you approach the request. Usually, men develop a certain sang froid about the process, after a while. But, when first dating, some have difficulty. Also, when they have to return to dating after a hiatus, some men (widowed/divorced) seem to have forgotten everything they once knew.

Ask yourself, when you approach a woman for a date do you tense up, or becoming deadly serious?

Without being frivolous, you want to address her in a manner, style, and tone that is similar to what she has become accustomed to, when dealing with you.

You want her to infer that:

She is important.

The ‘date’ is not crucial.

You are suggesting an idea that struck you as appealing.


(You’ve heard this before.) NEVER use the word “Date.” Make a list of euphoniums for a the terms "date" and "dating." Memorize them. Use them.

Unless she should ask, “You mean, like a date?" Then agree readily as though you hadn’t thought of that label before. “Yeah, like a date.” [Words to that effect, in terms comfortable to you.]

Be prepared to be turned down. She may not be a hermit.

No matter her excuse (if she gives one, other than a flat “No.”) accept it pleasantly, but do not take that as a final refusal. (It may be, but quite possibly it is not. Courage.)

Instead of saying “OK,” or “Thanks,” or both, or neither, ask for a raincheck, or suggest another time.

She may always be approached again, until she answers with , “X!”

(Where X = “Not with you!” or “Not with men!” or “Not without my boyfriend!” “Not now that my novitiate is over!”)

Good Luck.

PS: Don’t forget Rule One for Accepting Advice: "Consider the source."

 

[sincerely_helene]

I don't think it necessarily reflects on the womans attraction to you, rgraham. A couple weeks back I was asked out by a fairly decent looking 'potential', but then chickened out for the very reason you mentioned: I was worried that I would be expected to put out.

I know it may come off as a stereotype to assume all men think that way, but when you come from a particular history the assumption becomes justifiable.

In the past I have even refused to let the man pay for my meal so that I wouldn't feel like I "owed" him.

 

[rgraham666]

Thank you all!

I guess it's just one of those little human things I can't understand.

I can't see how asking a woman out for dinner differs from a date, except in the perception of it.

If I ask her out for dinner, it is with the intention of creating an opportunity for us to interact laying at least the background for a continuing relationship.

Also, I don't ask women out unless I've had a fair bit of interaction with them. I'm pretty sure by the time I ask that there is a good chance we'll be something other than bored with each other.

And for the record, I am still in contact with both the women. But I think mentioning the 'D' word moved me at least six spaces back on the board, and assigned me a handicap.

 

[McKenna]

They might even date, but I haven't heard her call it that.

Very sweet story Sher, glad you shared it!



RG- I've nothing really to add to your original question, I think the folks here covered it well.

 

[Vincent E]

My question is, why does a date seem to frighten women so?

Fuck all if I know. I once asked a woman out on a date, she accepted, but then after thinking about it overnight went running back to the arms of the guy she had recently broken up with. Maybe I am a little defensive about the situation, but then what can you expect from someone who just ended his last sentence with two prepositions?

I fI had any idea what was going on in women's minds I could leave the monastary. then I would right a best-selling book explaining it to the rest of mankind.

If the word "date" is so bad, just what the hell are we supposed to say?
-Okay, so it is an appointment.
-Okay, so it is a prearranged meeting for social purposes.
-Okay, so it is a planned, noncommital encounter.
-Okay, so we have a scheduled time and day for an interpersonal occasion during which I will be hoping to get laid, but probably won't since you are so afraid of using the word "date" that chances are you will not even be wiling to look at me let alone get down to business.

Hey ladies, how about a little help.

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: The 'D' word

If the word "date" is so bad, just what the hell are we supposed to say?
-Okay, so it is an appointment.
-Okay, so it is a prearranged meeting for social purposes.
-Okay, so it is a planned, noncommital encounter.
-Okay, so we have a scheduled time and day for an interpersonal occasion during which I will be hoping to get laid, but probably won't since you are so afraid of using the word "date" that chances are you will not even be wiling to look at me let alone get down to business.

Hey ladies, how about a little help.

What do you plan on doing on this date? Dinner? Movie? Shooting spree? Instead of asking a woman to go on a date, just ask her to go *insert date activity here*. Or ask her to join you for a planned, noncommital encounter. I really like that one.

 

[Guest]

Thank you all! And for the record, I am still in contact with both the women. But I think mentioning the 'D' word moved me at least six spaces back on the board, and assigned me a handicap.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I've only ever had one chickie say "Its not a date", before... but that was because her parents didn't want her dating and she was afraid it'd get back to them (weird).

I dunno.

I live in a pretty young and hopping place, lots of dating going on.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . .I once asked a woman out on a date, she accepted, but then after thinking about it overnight went running back to the arms of the guy she had recently broken up with. ...

Dear Vincent E,

Are you certain that the poor woman knew that the white stuff on your beard was snow?

It is possible that over night she discovered that her batteries were rechargeable.

Perhaps honesty would work best for you. Offer her an evening of pre-coital social interaction.

You WILL get you face slapped, but with perseverance you might eventually get lucky.


Best Wishes,

 

[Vincent E]

Dear Vincent E,

Are you certain that the poor woman knew that the white stuff on your beard was snow?

So, you're saying that the face dandruff is a turnoff?

It is possible that over night she discovered that her batteries were rechargeable.

I would have been willing to bring some Energizers myself. Just call me Ever Ready.

Perhaps honesty would work best for you.

I'm a man. Why be honest with a woman when you can lie?

Offer her an evening of pre-coital social interaction.

I knew there was one option I was missing.

You WILL get your face slapped, but with perseverance you might eventually get lucky.

Actually, I'm usually up for a good spanking.

Best Wishes,

Same to you.

 

[Honey123]

The word DATE

I am guessing this is or could be happening:

When men and women become friends, a woman, generally does not associate that friend with sex. At least, not right away. I think that woman still feel that men and women can be friends. I cannot nor will I speak for men on this topic.

Now, should the woman feel that this "friendship" is just a "friendship", the word date becomes a noose around her neck. The death of perhaps a truly great friendship.

If she says no to the date ~ how will their friendship end up?

If she says yes to the date ~ will this guy want more than "friendship"?

Why does a guy want to date a woman and vice versa? Well, to get more romantically involved. There is no such thing as a date without romantic ties or without a romantic notion.

Asking a female for a date too soon in the beginning of a friendship will inevitably end the relationship.

That's just my opinion....

 

[Black Tulip]

I agree with most of what's said so far.

I do not want to go dating, jeez I'm 50.
But you can ask me any day to "do" something with you, dinner, movie, to the beach, whatever.

Dating is specifically a romantic test. I don't want to fail those anymore, thank you very much. I'd rather be friends who drift into sex, perhaps.

Does this makes sense?

 

[Black Tulip]

.

Nervous fingers.

 

[gauchecritic]

Quite apart from the fact that I'm happily married (even after all this time) I can still tell which lady acquaintances I could succesfully ask out on a date or anything resembling such and which of them would slap my face just for asking.

On the other hand any one of the face slappers would gladly go out in a crowd which contained me, and have a jolly fun time in the process.

I have absolutely no idea if that is of any help whatsoever RG.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it's not necessarily what your saying but the way you say it.
Bearing in mind that 'the way you say it' includes: which way your shoes are pointing, whether you twitched an eyebrow, if you straightened your tie and a whole host of other bodily signals which women are expert at reading.

Men read them too but don't often act upon them.

Body Language by Alan Pease is a very good and entertaining book. The web site is just a selling place but may give you an idea.

Gauche

 

[Boota]

I've only asked one woman out on a date. Ever. She said yes, but then for reasons beyond our control, it never happened. (I've been asked out by women quite a bit, though. I always give them a lot of credit. I'm a scary looking guy. It takes some balls to approach me.)

Most of my "dating" was more incidental meeting at a mutually shared location. The only line I've ever used to get a woman to go anywhere with me is to motion with my head to my car and say, "Come on." It has always worked. I think it is the casualness of it. If I had asked them out for a specific occasion it may have gotten built up to be more in their heads and made them think about it. "Come on" means just that. Come on, let's do something fun.

 

[DirtyJJ]

And for the record, I am still in contact with both the women. But I think mentioning the 'D' word moved me at least six spaces back on the board, and assigned me a handicap.

I have no idea why this would be the case... I can't see being so hung up on the word. Even if you are a woman that is not a big fan of calling something a "date", it shouldn't create any tension or negative feelings in the friendship or relationship. It has been a while since I have dated but for me the word conjures up an image of something fun to look forward to with either a new person or someone you enjoy doing things with. In fact, I'd give anything for a "date" now! It seems my husband is scared of the word too!

I wish I had some better insight. It's not all women that feel this way. It seems silly that you should have to worry so much about saying the WORD date.
JJ

 

[Pure]

I do have a sense the word 'date' is passe, like 'necking' on the stoop. I think it connotes either-- first (and possibly last) step towards getting laid, or first step towards a commitment (exclusive 'dating').

Not surprisingly some folks don't want a planned meeting to fall, by prearrangement, neatly into one of those categories.

That leaves, in my speculation, mainly two types of women in this millenium who talk of and have 'dates': prostitutes ["he was a bad date"]; and those working through matching services, to find a husband.

Yet people will continue to meet, sometimes by prearrangement, and sometime because one or both hope, at some point, to get their ashes hauled. oops, that's *really out of date. i should say, to 'hook up.'