The Cost of War

[ll74]

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...etary-costs-date-us-war-afghanistan-2001-2022

A war, supposedly on terror. We lost. Horribly. Lives. Money. Equipment. Infrastructure. Pride. No one party owns this. No party can defend our actions there. No political or military can asses a win in their column.

The Costs of War Project also estimates that 241,000 people have died as a direct result of this war. These figures do not include deaths caused by disease, loss of access to food, water, infrastructure, and/or other indirect consequences of the war.

 

[CornusKousa]

Leftist explaining how they managed to lose the war for the USA via domestic political fuckery and do-gooder stupidity.

 

[zipman]

Leftist explaining how they managed to lose the war for the USA via domestic political fuckery and do-gooder stupidity.

That's a ridiculously stupid comment. Even for you.

 

[ll74]

That's a ridiculously stupid comment. Even for you.

He's blaming the left for losing. The right apparently would've won, if it weren't for those pesky left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXUqwuzcGeU

 

[WillJ8787]

Leftist explaining how they managed to lose the war for the USA via domestic political fuckery and do-gooder stupidity.

Facist authoritarian who's words are meaningless.

4 administrations (2 Republican, 2 Democrat)....plenty of blame for all.

 

[CornusKousa]

That's a ridiculously stupid comment. Even for you.

Not at all.

At least WillJ TRIES to make some kind of argument.

Facist authoritarian who's words are meaningless.

Your projections are meaningless.

Between the two of us, you're totalitarian god state worshiping authoritarian who absolutely detests and loathes individual civil rights and liberties.

You're the one who wants to "progress" the USA into being another N. Korea or Cuba remember???

4 administrations (2 Republican, 2 Democrat)....plenty of blame for all.

Yea plenty of blame, but not the same blame.


But the bottom line is the strategy of "Hey let's lick their ass and spend shit loads of money we don't have on them because we OWE the poor poor people of Afghanistan!!!" and the large push for a compassionate hearts and minds war of licking the Taliban's ass.... the way they think we could have "won" Vietnam??

Came from the bleeding heart morons of the left. You don't "Win" wars by giving the enemy blowies and bricks of cash....you fucking retards.

The (R)'s fault and their blame is as usual going along with that dumb shit.

When they should have just killed 30 million Afghanis and told the survivors "THAT is the price of fucking with the US of A.

 

[pecksniff]

But the bottom line is the strategy of "Hey let's lick their ass and spend shit loads of money we don't have on them because we OWE the poor poor people of Afghanistan!!!" and the large push for a compassionate hearts and minds war of licking the Taliban's ass.... the way they think we could have "won" Vietnam??

Like there could have been another way?!

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Facist authoritarian who's words are meaningless.

4 administrations (2 Republican, 2 Democrat)....plenty of blame for all.

The fucking liars in the GQP got us into the mess and look at the bullshit they are slinging when a Democrat gets us out of the war.

So no - the false equivalency of "plenty of blame for all" does not hold any water.

We should never have been in Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter and that is 100% owned by the GQP.

 

[CornusKousa]

Like there could have been another way?!

Conducting warfare to win might be a good start.

The fucking liars in the GQP got us into the mess and look at the bullshit they are slinging when a Democrat gets us out of the war.

So no - the false equivalency of "plenty of blame for all" does not hold any water.

We should never have been in Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter and that is 100% owned by the GQP.

No....it's not.

The (D)'s loved undermining it and the (R)'s loved exploiting it.

You're just too much of a dishonest partisan hack to admit it.

 

[ll74]

Like there could have been another way?!

We should've gotten out early on. It turns out that GW Bush's strategy of nation building was not a good idea from the start.

It turns out that Obama increasing drone strikes to try to "turn the tide" in the midst of that strategy was not a good idea from the start.

it turns out our overall strategy of relying on Pakistan to be an ally in our "war" was not a good idea from the start.

It turns out that Trump leaving the Afghan government out of negotiations, leaving our Afghan friends and allies out of the final agreement, letting 5000 Taliban forces out of prison was not a good idea from the start.

It turns out that Biden putting an end date publicly on a withdraw and relying on faulty understandings of the situation on the ground and letting go of Bagram airport was not a good idea from the start.

This entire mess should've stopped in 2002.

America lost the war in Afghanistan.

 

[mayfly13]

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...etary-costs-date-us-war-afghanistan-2001-2022

A war, supposedly on terror. We lost. Horribly. Lives. Money. Equipment. Infrastructure. Pride. No one party owns this. No party can defend our actions there. No political or military can asses a win in their column.

Danny Sjursen, who was stationed there in 2011, told Chris Hedges that American presence in Afghanistan was achieving Nothing even then, and that they were being asked to lie about it.
On Contact: The debacle in Afghanistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZQHssDTbc


gosh, besides what all American laypeople & soldiers must be feeling,
my 2nd thought was about Michael Hastings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkWLZQJz5gc
Remember how he wrote an army friend that he had a big story, just before he "accidentally crashed his car"?

 

[ll74]

Danny Sjursen, who was stationed there in 2011, told Chris Hedges that American presence in Afghanistan was achieving Nothing even then, and that they were being asked to lie about it.
On Contact: The debacle in Afghanistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZQHssDTbc


gosh, besides what all American laypeople & soldiers must be feeling,
my 2nd thought was about Michael Hastings.
Remember how he wrote an army friend that he had a big story, just before he "accidentally crashed his car"?

And yet the most recent call from Republicans on the hill is that we should stay longer.

I'm glad we're out. It sucks that the majority has kept us there for 20 years leading to our surrender and withdraw. And yes, I know the word surrender wasn't used....but our actions are the equivalent.

 

[mayfly13]

And yet the most recent call from Republicans on the hill is that we should stay longer.

I'm glad we're out. It sucks that the majority has kept us there for 20 years leading to our surrender and withdraw. And yes, I know the word surrender wasn't used....but our actions are the equivalent.

I'm not American, nor do I have a solid understanding of politics & history, but I'm fascinated, just like everyone else.

SO I have just discovered a guy called Max Blumenthal & The Greyzone on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urP758HKnt0
If he & his guests are credible, there are two major figureheads that are far more liable than Biden (nothwitstanding his incompetent handling of the withdrawal):

BUSH 2
OBAMA
who both, knowingly perpetuated the Afghanistan fiasco.


What's your opinion?

 

[ll74]

I'm not American, nor do I have a solid understanding of politics & history, but I'm fascinated, just like everyone else.

SO I have just discovered a guy called Max Blumenthal & The Greyzone on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urP758HKnt0
If he & his guests are credible, there are two major figureheads that are far more liable than Biden (nothwitstanding his incompetent handling of the withdrawal):

BUSH 2
OBAMA
who both, knowingly perpetuated the Afghanistan fiasco.


What's your opinion?

My opinion is that GW put us there for stupid reasons, egged on by American emotion after an attack on our soil. And every President since then has campaigned on getting us out. Biden got us out.

I don't care for blame as much as just admitting that we lost and should acknowledge that loss. If we don't, it will happen again.

As mentioned in my other thread - by calling it the "war on terror", they've made it incredibly difficult to acknowledge the loss....which is nothing but a disservice to those we've put in harms way during our efforts.

 

[mayfly13]

I can only imagine how it feels for you guys...

It's a bit personal for me too, even if I don't live in the US & don't have my livelihood & future at stake.
But I grew up in awe of, during a time in which America was revered. And Even later, when they started interfering with Europe, I compartimentalized that. Bad leaders at the time, the next ones will be better.

And now... It's like your government (R/L) is this kabal of psychopaths who are gradually leading the population towards abject poverty.

 

[ll74]

I can only imagine how it feels for you guys...

It's a bit personal for me too, even if I don't live in the US & don't have my livelihood & future at stake.
But I grew up in awe of, during a time in which America was revered. And Even later, when they started interfering with Europe, I compartimentalized that. Bad leaders at the time, the next ones will be better.

And now... It's like your government (R/L) is this kabal of psychopaths who are gradually leading the population towards abject poverty.

The internet led us here. Polarization of extremes that used to be held in check due to isolationism has been emboldened by finding like-minded groups online. When stupid people believe their basis of facts deserve equal footing with reality-based facts, shit goes nutso.

 

[phrodeau]

I'm not American, nor do I have a solid understanding of politics & history, but I'm fascinated, just like everyone else.

SO I have just discovered a guy called Max Blumenthal & The Greyzone on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urP758HKnt0
If he & his guests are credible, there are two major figureheads that are far more liable than Biden (nothwitstanding his incompetent handling of the withdrawal):

BUSH 2
OBAMA
who both, knowingly perpetuated the Afghanistan fiasco.


What's your opinion?

Obama faced a lot of “can’t allow our soldiers to have died in vain,” which led to him surging troops.

 

[pecksniff]

Conducting warfare to win might be a good start.

Nah. We already tried that.

 

[Taggy1]

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...etary-costs-date-us-war-afghanistan-2001-2022

A war, supposedly on terror. We lost. Horribly. Lives. Money. Equipment. Infrastructure. Pride. No one party owns this. No party can defend our actions there. No political or military can asses a win in their column.

How can anyone trust a President and party who leave their citizens to be tortured and killed???

 

[ll74]

How can anyone trust a President and party who leave their citizens to be tortured and killed???

Oh look, you are proving my point.

We lost. The whole we....not the party we.

Fuck off with your partisanship

 

[mayfly13]

Obama faced a lot of “can’t allow our soldiers to have died in vain,” which led to him surging troops.

What a clusterfuck.....

Hindsight is lazy. So one could relate to Bush2/Obama's decisions after 9/11. Tough, grey area during uncertain times.

BUT the lying to the American public (that they were "winning" against Taliban when it was anything but), the war profiteering by private contractors ...
while Americans at home could barely make ends meet.

Americans must be so bitter and disgusted with their political class...

 

[mayfly13]

And I understand that veterans' suicide rate is already sky-high.
I imagine now, with this added desilusionment... That they wasted their youth or limbs for cut-throat imbecils.

 

[CornusKousa]

Nah. We already tried that.

Yup, in the WW's and Desert Storm.

That's it.

We NEVER tried to win Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[CornusKousa]

And I understand that veterans' suicide rate is already sky-high.
I imagine now, with this added desilusionment... That they wasted their youth or limbs for cut-throat imbecils.

Only for those who were under the illusion that OIF/OEF was ever about winning, doing the right thing, oil, natural resources or any of that shit.

 

[pecksniff]

Yup, in the WW's and Desert Storm.

That's it.

We NEVER tried to win Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.

You cannot possibly believe that, not in a single one of those instances.