The Civil War: States Rights Vs Slavery

[Irishdragon]

There are many interesting topics to cover in the Civil War. What caused it? Why was it fought? Did it need to be and have we recovered from it?

I am of the opinion that it was a States rights issue that caused the war. Your thoughts?

 

[KinkyKat]

There are many interesting topics to cover in the Civil War. What caused it? Why was it fought? Did it need to be and have we recovered from it?

I am of the opinion that it was a States rights issue that caused the war. Your thoughts?

I agree.

But, more importantly, all of my history profs in high school and college agree(d).

 

[Azwed]

States rights number one reason or there abouts. The war finaly decided that the federal government was the superior to the states. After the war citizens started to identify them as American and not Virginians, Texans or whatever for the first time.

Ecomomics was another reason. The north was prospering from the industrial revolution and the south was not.

 

[huskie]

There are many interesting topics to cover in the Civil War. What caused it? Why was it fought? Did it need to be and have we recovered from it?

I am of the opinion that it was a States rights issue that caused the war. Your thoughts?

I agree. I was told (but have not read) that 95% of the soldiers that fault for the south never owned a slave. I for one would not fight and die so some son of a bitch could own a person.

But if I were a yanky, ya I would fight to stop slavery.

We're sore lossers down here, so I for one am still fighting this war...... Funny though? I have lots of yanky friends?

 

[KinkyKat]

After the war citizens started to identify them as American and not Virginians, Texans or whatever for the first time.

Whadaya mean "Texans or whatever"?

LOL

 

[Azwed]

i am a Texan

but i live in VA so i just picked first to states that popped into my head.

 

[Problem Child]

The "states rights" argument in regards for the reasons for fighting the Civil War is fucking ridiculous. The "states right" they were fighting for was the right to own slaves.

It's like the doctor saying "Well Mrs. Snagglepuss, cancer didn't kill your husband, death did."

 

[REDWAVE]

All three

Actually, all three factors were in play. The Civil War was first and foremost a struggle between the Northern industrial bourgeoisie and the Southern slave-owning aristocracy. During the first major phase of U.S. history, the slavocracy, the Southern plantation owners were the dominant force. After the Civil War, the "robber barons" of the Northeast were in control-- and still are today, with some modifications. The issue of slavery was secondary, and actually roused little enthusiasm among most white Northerners, who were racist themselves (and still are today, with some modifications). What really won the Civil War for the North was Lincoln finally allowing blacks to serve in the Union Army in 1863. The flood of black soldiers, many recently freed slaves, into the Union Army provided the manpower with which to break the back of the South in a war of attrition. Grant was no great military genuis, that's for sure, but he understood basic arithmetic. His forces took heavy losses, but so did the South, which could afford them a lot less. On the Southern side, the sight of free black men with guns in their hands was a realization of their deepest and darkest nightmare.

States' rights was the least important factor, basically an intellectual smokescreen for the slavemasters.

 

[Marxist]

Please God, not this argument again. Please. This is going to be a great waste of bandwith. Please, just stop. Now.

If it keeps going I'll start posting pics from my work as amateur proctologist. I swear I'll do it.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Please God, not this argument again. Please. This is going to be a great waste of bandwith. Please, just stop. Now.

Yeah, we did this already. Everyone go read that thread, you know - the one where I was right.

 

[Marxist]

Yeah, we did this already. Everyone go read that thread, you know - the one where I was right.

Yes. It was quite, ummm educational. Some people...

 

[JazzManJim]

The "states rights" argument in regards for the reasons for fighting the Civil War is fucking ridiculous. The "states right" they were fighting for was the right to own slaves.

That's not quite right.

The state's rights issue over which the first states seceded involved where they could seel their raw goods, and for what price.

Several states had lots of raw goods, such as cotton which they wanted to sell for th ebest possible price. At that time, France and a couple other European countries were paying a premium on those goods and the southern states were selling very happily. Several northern states lobbied Congress to insist that the southern states should have to sell to the northern states first, at the best price that state could offer, regardless of foreign offers. The southern states, of course, disagreed.

That prompted the debate over which body - the state or federal - held strongest sway. The Federal Government insisted that it did and was prepared to legislate that way, and enforce it if necessary. The southern states decided that the Constitution didn't mandate that and, since the Federal Government was going to act against the Constitution, they were within their rights to break away and secede.

Later on, Slavery became a much stronger and flashier point of contention, mostly because it was an issue with which the "average person" could identify. Economics and state's rights wasn't selling well, and slavery did.

Then again, it's always worth noting that the reason the southern states had such a boom market in raw materials was because they had very, very low labor costs due to slavery.

 

[REDWAVE]

MC

Well, what thread was that, Mellon Collie? Why don't you post the link to it?

 

[Marxist]

Jim, I love you like a neighbor but post again on this thread and I'm going to storm over to your house and set fire to your Dolemite collection.

 

[KinkyKat]

The "states rights" argument in regards for the reasons for fighting the Civil War is fucking ridiculous. The "states right" they were fighting for was the right to own slaves.

Actually, PC, the Civil War was an economic war, and the entire issue of slavery was distinctly economic....not moral principle. At the heart of it all....whether states were superior or inferior to the federal government. But, one of the chambers of that heart was the South's ability to produce and sell cheaper goods and services because of cheaper labor costs ---- ala, slavery.

The South was tremendously frustrated over incredibly anti-South, pro-industrial banking and monetary policy founded in the New England states, enforced everywhere from the NYC financial district to the halls of Congress in Washington.

The whole idea of federalism was that the individual states would remain "sovereign". The Constitution was constructed to reinforce those ideas.

Even today, the argument continues about states rights.

 

[Marxist]

OK, here's the old thread. Have fun.

http://www.literotica.com/forum/sho...ight=civil and states and rights&pagenumber=6

 

[Mellon Collie]

Re: MC

Well, what thread was that, Mellon Collie? Why don't you post the link to it?

Like I could ever find the thread I wanted? P'shaw.

Marxist, don't make me - make you, call me your daddy.

 

[Marxist]

http://www.trauma.org/images/evisceration.jpg

 

[Marxist]

http://www.eastbaytrauma.org/images/sewing%20mesh-1optimized.jpg

 

[Marxist]

http://www.eastbaytrauma.org/images/sewingmesh1.jpg

 

[Marxist]

http://www.eastbaytrauma.org/images/granulating.jpg

 

[riff]

It was about states rights, it was about slavery, it was about socio-economic rivalry, and it was about money and power.

Just my opinion.

War is fucked up.

 

[estevie]

Marxist, you are a sick individual.

















But I like ya anyway!

 

[REDWAVE]

Mark's sis

Marxist, you're one sick puppy. And you call me a nutjob.

 

[Marxist]

Marxist, you are a sick individual.

















But I like ya anyway!

You could call me a rapist, but that smile on your av's face would put a positive spin on it somehow.

Bastard!!


BTW--it's nice to see ya, literally and figuratively.