The Baby Boomer retirement apocalypse: which will kill us first?

[Le Jacquelope]

The draw on social security, the cashing in of pension funds, or the selling off of stocks?

There are a lot of pension funds that are about to get called in, as well as a lot of 401K and mutual fund stocks, to fund elderly people's retirement.

Aside from firing every American and immediately giving all those jobs to the Chinese (note: hyperbole alert), how will America weather the drain on private funds and stocks that is to come? And will this be as bad as the Social Security issue?

I think the draw on stocks and pension funds will be absolute murder, because there won't be taxes or Government backing for companies hit by this, unless they beg for corporate welfare. It's great (in a greedy capitalist sense) to put American workers through musical jobs hell to raise the Chinese economy so they can buy our stocks, but that's a pipe dream, a big fat 'maybe'. How will they back those pension funds when they come due and payable?

Which will ruin us first, and for those who believe these three issues won't cause a Depression... how do you suppose America will weather this?

 

[keeblercrumb]

Your thread raises some really profound issues..... at least to anybody who will be living in the US during the next 20 years.....

Pretty sobering stuff......

And..... I don't have a clue how it will all work out. But our thread was way too good to just ignore.

So please excuse me. I have to go find some sand to stick my head in.

Let me know what happens.

-KC

 

[amicus]

One might hope, beyond all expectations, that the coming social security bankruptcy will be a wake-up call for all you stupid fucking left-wingers as I have been telling you for years.

Since the 1930's when that fucking socialist, Roosevelt, got the greatest Ponzi scheme in history enacted into law, your wonderful government has been stealing your confiscated tax funds from the social security retirement fund and spending it as they wish, issuing government bonds as an IOU.

Those trillions of hard earned tax dollars taken by force have been spent and wasted and only notes are left and only those still paying in support those baby boomers now retiring and the fucking feminists quit having babies a long time ago and there are not enough putting in to support those drawing out.

Just as in England and Canada and the rest of Europe, with government health care, they system is bankrupt. People are pulling their own teeth with plyers in Britain because their system has failed.

America and the free enterprise system will survive, LT, aside from the worst you fucking left wingers can do; but it won't be easy.

You have taxed the wealthy to the extent they have invested elsewhere. You have taxed and regulated industry to where it has moved offshore, but the chickens came home to roost with social security, you have fouled your own nest.

Enjoy it.

Amicus...

 

[cantdog]

"America" won't be doing much; it's an abstraction. There are some actual people here, though, who've let themselves be righteously fucked over. Some will weather it better than others. A much better question-- how will you do?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

One might hope, beyond all expectations, that the coming social security bankruptcy will be a wake-up call for all you stupid fucking left-wingers as I have been telling you for years.

Since the 1930's when that fucking socialist, Roosevelt, got the greatest Ponzi scheme in history enacted into law, your wonderful government has been stealing your confiscated tax funds from the social security retirement fund and spending it as they wish, issuing government bonds as an IOU.

Those trillions of hard earned tax dollars taken by force have been spent and wasted and only notes are left and only those still paying in support those baby boomers now retiring and the fucking feminists quit having babies a long time ago and there are not enough putting in to support those drawing out.

Just as in England and Canada and the rest of Europe, with government health care, they system is bankrupt. People are pulling their own teeth with plyers in Britain because their system has failed.

America and the free enterprise system will survive, LT, aside from the worst you fucking left wingers can do; but it won't be easy.

You have taxed the wealthy to the extent they have invested elsewhere. You have taxed and regulated industry to where it has moved offshore, but the chickens came home to roost with social security, you have fouled your own nest.

Enjoy it.

Amicus...

And in other countries, these industries are poisoning their nest. China, most of all, has a physical air and water pollution disaster situation going on that has skyrocketed ever since these industries started going over there.

You're in for your own rude awakening when the elderly selloff of stocks affects YOUR holdings and drives down their value. As usual, being the right wing crackhead that you are, you're not seeing that writing on the wall.

 

[trysail]

I think the draw on stocks and pension funds will be absolute murder, because there won't be taxes or Government backing for companies hit by this, unless they beg for corporate welfare.

You really might want to stick to graffiti and hold on to your day job since you repeatedly demonstrate your near total ignorance of economics and investing.

On the other hand, that qualifies you to run for Teddy Kennedy's seat.

Warren Buffett you ain't.

 

[sr71plt]

The draw on social security, the cashing in of pension funds, or the selling off of stocks?

There are a lot of pension funds that are about to get called in, as well as a lot of 401K and mutual fund stocks, to fund elderly people's retirement.

Aside from firing every American and immediately giving all those jobs to the Chinese (note: hyperbole alert), how will America weather the drain on private funds and stocks that is to come? And will this be as bad as the Social Security issue?

I think the draw on stocks and pension funds will be absolute murder, because there won't be taxes or Government backing for companies hit by this, unless they beg for corporate welfare. It's great (in a greedy capitalist sense) to put American workers through musical jobs hell to raise the Chinese economy so they can buy our stocks, but that's a pipe dream, a big fat 'maybe'. How will they back those pension funds when they come due and payable?

Which will ruin us first, and for those who believe these three issues won't cause a Depression... how do you suppose America will weather this?

Yep, that seems to be where we're heading. But, like those who took out risky mortgages for bigger homes than they could afford and now want the rest of us to bail them out, it's largely the fault of a consumptive society. Saw this coming a long time ago--went for something that provided me a cushy government pension and took care of my own retirement plan in work above that, paid off the house (which is a nice, if not flashy and expensive to maintain, one purposely in a neighborhood were values will only rise), a villa in the Mediterranean and money socked away there outside of the American market as well. I don't plan on bailing out (or weeping for) all of those who didn't plan ahead--if I can avoid it--which might require retreat to the Med. I don't think the American system is going to heal itself without a radical shift from radical consumptive Republicanism.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh! The government will print more money.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

You really might want to stick to graffiti and hold on to your day job since you repeatedly demonstrate your near total ignorance of economics and investing.

On the other hand, that qualifies you to run for Teddy Kennedy's seat.

Warren Buffett you ain't.

Yes, I know this is useless, since whenever you are actually CHALLENGED on your "economics and investing" knowledge, you run for the high hills, but...

what part of what I said was factually incorrect?

Here's what I said again:

When baby boomers tap into their private retirement funds - the pensions and the investments - that will bring with it precipitous drops in stock values due to relentless floods of selloffs, and those corporate pension funds will also go BOOM.

Ok, now, show us your high and mighty investment and economic knowledge and tell us what is in error with that.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Yep, that seems to be where we're heading. But, like those who took out risky mortgages for bigger homes than they could afford and now want the rest of us to bail them out, it's largely the fault of a consumptive society.

Indeed, they do want us to bail them out. What do you think will happen if we tell them they're on their own?

It wasn't entirely just the homeowners and buyers who did this. There were a lot of inflated appraisals (mortgage fraud), lair loans, teaser rate loans, and a huge glut of overzealous ARM advertisers involved. ARMs were the proverbial crack, and there were the crack users and crack dealers.

And then there are those of you living next door to a homeowner facing foreclosure. When that home goes, your home's value will drop.

So the question is not whether or not you want to pay for their bailout (note the exact words I use), the question is how much you want to pay. You can all pitch in a buck or two to help them out now or suffer thousands in lost land value when the house goes into foreclosure.

*note: if you don't have one of those 125% refi loans or you're planning on living in your home for double digit years to come, you are probably going to be immune to this issue. Probably. That is, unless, your middle class neighborhood is hit by mass foreclosures all at once and becomes a Detroit, Michigan.

Saw this coming a long time ago--went for something that provided me a cushy government pension and took care of my own retirement plan in work above that, paid off the house (which is a nice, if not flashy and expensive to maintain, one purposely in a neighborhood were values will only rise), a villa in the Mediterranean and money socked away there outside of the American market as well. I don't plan on bailing out (or weeping for) all of those who didn't plan ahead--if I can avoid it--which might require retreat to the Med. I don't think the American system is going to heal itself without a radical shift from radical consumptive Republicanism.

In some ways, the radical consumption culture spreads way beyond Republicanism.

BTW what country's currency will survive if the US has a major economic downturn? If America's ability to buy imports plummets, that will have a global ripple effect...

 

[keeblercrumb]

One might hope, beyond all expectations, that the coming social security bankruptcy will be a wake-up call for all you stupid fucking left-wingers as I have been telling you for years.

Since the 1930's when that fucking socialist, Roosevelt, got the greatest Ponzi scheme in history enacted into law, your wonderful government has been stealing your confiscated tax funds from the social security retirement fund and spending it as they wish, issuing government bonds as an IOU.

Those trillions of hard earned tax dollars taken by force have been spent and wasted and only notes are left and only those still paying in support those baby boomers now retiring and the fucking feminists quit having babies a long time ago and there are not enough putting in to support those drawing out.

Just as in England and Canada and the rest of Europe, with government health care, they system is bankrupt. People are pulling their own teeth with plyers in Britain because their system has failed.

America and the free enterprise system will survive, LT, aside from the worst you fucking left wingers can do; but it won't be easy.

You have taxed the wealthy to the extent they have invested elsewhere. You have taxed and regulated industry to where it has moved offshore, but the chickens came home to roost with social security, you have fouled your own nest.

Enjoy it.

Amicus...

On behalf of fucking left wingers everywhere, I want to thank you for this reasoned, balanced and insightful commentary to LT's question concerning the potential impact of baby boomers drawing down their huge 401k investment in stocks and bonds as a result attaining retirement.

But since you brought it up (and I may be wrong about this), I think the Great Socialist in the Sky FDR probably assumed we would use the SS tax to actually fund it, and not as a backdoor way to raise funds for every other purpose. Then... gee... it would still be there!

But meanwhile... back on thread.....(and reality)....

Hopefully, I guess it will be the great influx of investors from China, India, Russia and the rest of new capitalist world which will compensate for this withdrawal. I hope.

My plan is to take the money and run as soon as I can. (Yes Amicus, and then sit around the fire at the commune and watch it metamorphize into smoke we all can enjoy.)

Peace and Love,

-KC

 

[trysail]

Yes, I know this is useless, since whenever you are actually CHALLENGED on your "economics and investing" knowledge, you run for the high hills, but...

what part of what I said was factually incorrect?

Here's what I said again:

When baby boomers tap into their private retirement funds - the pensions and the investments - that will bring with it precipitous drops in stock values due to relentless floods of selloffs, and those corporate pension funds will also go BOOM.

Ok, now, show us your high and mighty investment and economic knowledge and tell us what is in error with that.

"In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine. In the long run, it's a weighing machine." That quote (authored by John Maynard Keynes) has been used by Warren Buffett to describe the notion of "intrinsic value." Nobody (that would include you) can predict the short term course of the stock market. Warren Buffett has repeatedly said as much and I'll be damned if I'm going to gainsay him.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1206/1491299422_9b5a76eaea.jpg​

Common stocks have always fluctuated; they always will. Ultimately, their prices converge on their individual intrinsic values. There will always be informed buyers with capital. In the future, more of those buyers are likely to be Chinese, Indian, Russian, or Japanese. God knows, they've sure as hell got plenty of little green pieces of paper with George Washington's picture on 'em. One hundred years from now, Nestlé will still be selling chocolate, coffee, tea, and water around the globe. One hundred years from now, The Coca-Cola Company will still be selling carbonated water around the globe and Proctor & Gamble will still be selling soap, razors, deodorants, and cosmetics. In the intervening years, all three will have paid continuous and rising dividends.

In addition, there will, of course, be my heirs and assigns.

I'm curious. Who planted this little bug in your ear? Richard Hokenson? Comstock Partners?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

On behalf of fucking left wingers everywhere, I want to thank you for this reasoned, balanced and insightful commentary to LT's question concerning the potential impact of baby boomers drawing down their huge 401k investment in stocks and bonds as a result attaining retirement.

I just blew diet pepsi out of my nose, doggone you. Do you know what it's like to have diet pepsi coming out of your nose? It's not like water, you know. It's more, well, effervescent. It leaves this strange but short lived burning sensation to go along with the whole choking feeling that comes as it backfires into your lungs. Plus this diet pepsi is ice cold. Brain freeze city. This sounds actionable!

But since you brought it up (and I may be wrong about this), I think the Great Socialist in the Sky FDR probably assumed we would use the SS tax to actually fund it, and not as a backdoor way to raise funds for every other purpose. Then... gee... it would still be there!

I'm sure Amicus will file this under unintended consequences ... unlike what will happen when the elderly start selling off their investments.

But meanwhile... back on thread.....(and reality)....

Hopefully, I guess it will be the great influx of investors from China, India, Russia and the rest of new capitalist world which will compensate for this withdrawal. I hope.

<rant on>
I find it odd that we as Americans are relying on some of the most awful parts of the industrialized world (I mean, really, would you want to live under Putin, in a land where the population is imploding... or where Chinese troops will put you in prison for calling for Democracy?) - and some of the most unstable economies in the world - to bail us out of our corporate greed-inspired quagmire.

Wishing on the China, Russia or India fairy for our salvation? Man, whodathunkit. I know many free enterprise Reagan voters like myself who utterly cringe at this. Russia and China, in particular, are leopards who are loathe to change their spots. Western democracies will rue the day we economically empowered these nations. We will come to regret it.
<rant off>

My plan is to take the money and run as soon as I can. (Yes Amicus, and then sit around the fire at the commune and watch it metamorphize into smoke we all can enjoy.)

Peace and Love,

-KC

When the selloff rush comes, the money you've taken and run away with, will become a liability. It'll cost more to lug it around than it is actually worth. As happened in 1929.

 

[sr71plt]

Indeed, they do want us to bail them out. What do you think will happen if we tell them they're on their own?

*note: if you don't have one of those 125% refi loans or you're planning on living in your home for double digit years to come, you are probably going to be immune to this issue. Probably. That is, unless, your middle class neighborhood is hit by mass foreclosures all at once and becomes a Detroit, Michigan.

Sorry, I'm tired of suggesting people live within their means and take care of themselves and then expect me to worry about what to do when they won't pay attention to reason. I've given up on them and am taking care of my own--and telling them they are on their own now.

I don't live in a middle class neighborhood. I live in an upper class neighborhood that also enjoys location, location, location. And I live here because I used a little common sense when I bought the place. There obviously will always be rich with money (because our system makes sure there are). My neighborhood is a glitsy enclave wedged nicely between an insanely rich and expanding major university campus and a high-end commercial center. I have no mortgage--and I made sure I didn't retire from the main job until this was so. When I'm done here, either someone rich will pay me big bucks for the location no matter how the economy is doing (because our system makes sure the rich stay rich) or I'll sell out to the university or the commercial folks for the same big bucks. And anyone else could have thought ahead and done the same thing.

If the government stops paying its pensions, which is the foundation of my income--other than a nice chunk my wife and I accumulated through our own "other" work and that we only draw the interest from--the country is in such deep doo doo that my own circumstance won't make a drop in the bucket. (As was posted up the line, when the going gets tough, the government can always print more money.)

I was never dumb enough to think Social Security was my retirement. Nor am I dumb enough to fall for Bush's "let the workers decide how to invest their Social Security themselves" because we might as well not have any such system at all then--the money will be invested in a plasma TV and an iPod, and I'll still have the dumb suckers suggesting I should bail them out when these won't shelter, feed, or medicate them. (And I think the point made earlier that FDR thought we'd be a lot less dumb about what we did with the Social Security system was spot on--not his fault in the least for initiating it.)

Nope. Not any more. They can step up to taking responsibility for their future just like I did--or not. And if they don't like it, they can wake up and vote the fuckers perpetuating this out of office.

And when the system really falls flat, I've got that nice little villa on a Mediterranean island--and a nest egg and an address to send my annuity and royalties to set up there too.

Of course, I've always voted for the candidate who showed the most promise of getting this cleaned up (or genuinely trying to)--even if it took socialism--and I'd be quite willing to swallow an increased progressive tax (minus the loopholes for the rich)--even drive a hybrid car (well, one of three and only the Mercedes soaks up gas and we don't drive it far--but none of these bought until we can pay cash for them). But it isn't my fault that the voters go for the short-term toys candidate--so those who overextended themselves by moving into McMansions that were beyond their means get no sympathy or tears from me.

And as far as the Democratic and Republican divide on this--Clinton left us in a huge surplus situation and Bush evaporated it through multiple instances of (continuing) stupidity. It's a real joke that Democrats spend and Republicans save--in recent memory all of the big spending administrations (on nothing resembling infrastructure) have been Republican.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

"In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine. In the long run, it's a weighing machine." That quote (authored by John Maynard Keynes) has been used by Warren Buffett to describe the notion of "intrinsic value." Nobody (that would include you) can predict the short term course of the stock market. Warren Buffett has repeatedly said as much and I'll be damned if I'm going to gainsay him.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1206/1491299422_9b5a76eaea.jpg​

Warren Buffet is not God.

The stock market today is not a voting machine. It is becoming an ATM in the making. What you have today is a huge undercurrent of stock purchases by mutual funds and 401K planners trying to sock away money for retirement.

There is no denying the math and no denying the laws of physics as it applies to economics. When you have millions of people purchasing investments, whether to fund their retirement or for other reasons, stocks in general will rise. It's a halo effect. Chain reaction stock purchases will and did happen.

Likewise, when it comes time for the elderly to retire, they will cash in their investments. That means they will sell off their stocks. En masse. You cannot deny the math. There will be mass selloffs by retiring elderly people. There is no denying that. That will reverse the halo effect. Stocks will be sold, value will be lost, and chain reaction selloffs will happen.

Common stocks have always fluctuated; they always will. Ultimately, their prices converge on their individual intrinsic values. There will always be informed buyers with capital.

They will not beat out the millions of people selling off their investments for the sole purpose of what they were purchased for: to fund retirement.

In the future, more of those buyers are likely to be Chinese, Indian, Russian, or Japanese. God knows, they've sure as hell got plenty of little green pieces of paper with George Washington's picture on 'em.

Russia? Have you seen how fast their population is growing? Oh wait, it's shrinking. China's population is too far off from being able to bail us out. And when they sell their investments off? There won't be any counterweight for them.

One hundred years from now, Nestlé will still be selling chocolate, coffee, tea, and water around the globe. One hundred years from now, The Coca-Cola Company will still be selling carbonated water around the globe and Proctor & Gamble will still be selling soap, razors, deodorants, and cosmetics. In the intervening years, all three will have paid continuous and rising dividends.

amended: all three will have paid continuous and rising dividends to fewer and fewer people.

In addition, there will, of course, be my heirs and assigns.

I'm curious. Who planted this little bug in your ear? Richard Hokenson? Comstock Partners?

It's nice to see that you are putting all your faith in a nation with a rapidly shrinking populace and another nation that has threatened to destroy America's economy. Japan is simply too damned small, with its own shrinking population and job loss problem, to help us when this selloff happens.

That leaves India.

Radical right wingers in my time would have laughed you out of the room for suggesting these things. You put too much faith in these young and frighteningly unstable economies.

 

[slyc_willie]

The abuses heaped upon the social security funds amassed by the government have taught me only that I will never see a social security paycheck.

Not that I would want one, really. I mean, I can put away $25 a week for twenty years, starting now, and have more than enough to live on when I retire at sixty-five. In contrast, the eight hundred or so SS would give me would barely pay my bills. I don't trust my government to support me; I only hope they will protect me. That's all.

My comfort in my twilight years is left in my own hands. As it should be, I think.

 

[sr71plt]

The abuses heaped upon the social security funds amassed by the government have taught me only that I will never see a social security paycheck.

Not that I would want one, really. I mean, I can put away $25 a week for twenty years, starting now, and have more than enough to live on when I retire at sixty-five. In contrast, the eight hundred or so SS would give me would barely pay my bills. I don't trust my government to support me; I only hope they will protect me. That's all.

My comfort in my twilight years is left in my own hands. As it should be, I think.

Unfortunately, the kicker is that for every one person who will take responsibility for his/her future, there are 30,000 no brainers who won't and who will be there for that one person to carry in the long run (unless that one person has socked away a nice little retirement villa in a socialist country with a great climate and good doctors. I recommend Malta.)

 

[slyc_willie]

Unfortunately, the kicker is that for every one person who will take responsibility for his/her future, there are 30,000 no brainers who won't and who will be there for that one person to carry in the long run (unless that one person has socked away a nice little retirement villa in a socialist country with a great climate and good doctors. I recommend Malta.)

I don't mind paying into a fund which will never support me. Call me a socialist in that regard, if you want. Or even an altruist. I kind of like that.

Money means little to me beyond that which I need to be comfortable. I really feel for those small-minded, materialist folks who feel that their car is necessary, or that a cell-phone is all-important for keeping in touch with the world.

I keep my life simple. It makes things easier.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Sorry, I'm tired of suggesting people live within their means and take care of themselves and then expect me to worry about what to do when they won't pay attention to reason. I've given up on them and am taking care of my own--and telling them they are on their own now.

I don't live in a middle class neighborhood. I live in an upper class neighborhood that also enjoys location, location, location. And I live here because I used a little common sense when I bought the place. There obviously will always be rich with money (because our system makes sure there are). My neighborhood is a glitsy enclave wedged nicely between an insanely rich and expanding major university campus and a high-end commercial center. I have no mortgage--and I made sure I didn't retire from the main job until this was so. When I'm done here, either someone rich will pay me big bucks for the location no matter how the economy is doing (because our system makes sure the rich stay rich) or I'll sell out to the university or the commercial folks for the same big bucks. And anyone else could have thought ahead and done the same thing.

You know, we made our first million in cash this year and have not looked back. I wish we had invested in gold: my meager gold investments (that which I did not sell off) have doubled since the early 2000s. But no matter where I go, we'll have our solar power and a nice garden or eventually a small farm. A high thick wall would be all we need to make us zombie proof.

But if things go totally south, where will I get new PCs?

If the government stops paying its pensions, which is the foundation of my income--other than a nice chunk my wife and I accumulated through our own "other" work and that we only draw the interest from--the country is in such deep doo doo that my own circumstance won't make a drop in the bucket. (As was posted up the line, when the going gets tough, the government can always print more money.)

Printing more money makes what you have worth less. Best to invest in gold if the printing really revs up. In fact, invest now.

I was never dumb enough to think Social Security was my retirement. Nor am I dumb enough to fall for Bush's "let the workers decide how to invest their Social Security themselves" because we might as well not have any such system at all then--the money will be invested in a plasma TV and an iPod, and I'll still have the dumb suckers suggesting I should bail them out when these won't shelter, feed, or medicate them. (And I think the point made earlier that FDR thought we'd be a lot less dumb about what we did with the Social Security system was spot on--not his fault in the least for initiating it.)

You can take any concept dreamt of by humans and turn it into a colossal failure. That includes socialstic concepts and capitalistic concepts.

Human stupidity will be the ruin of any institution ever imagined. The communists have learned this the hard way; the capitalists (Amicus) are too proud to realize their vulnerability.

Nope. Not any more. They can step up to taking responsibility for their future just like I did--or not. And if they don't like it, they can wake up and vote the fuckers perpetuating this out of office.

And when the system really falls flat, I've got that nice little villa on a Mediterranean island--and a nest egg and an address to send my annuity and royalties to set up there too.

Or you can zombie proof your home.

Of course, I've always voted for the candidate who showed the most promise of getting this cleaned up (or genuinely trying to)--even if it took socialism--and I'd be quite willing to swallow an increased progressive tax (minus the loopholes for the rich)--even drive a hybrid car (well, one of three and only the Mercedes soaks up gas and we don't drive it far--but none of these bought until we can pay cash for them). But it isn't my fault that the voters go for the short-term toys candidate--so those who overextended themselves by moving into McMansions that were beyond their means get no sympathy or tears from me.

It's a pity they stopped making pure electric cars.

And as far as the Democratic and Republican divide on this--Clinton left us in a huge surplus situation and Bush evaporated it through multiple instances of (continuing) stupidity. It's a real joke that Democrats spend and Republicans save--in recent memory all of the big spending administrations (on nothing resembling infrastructure) have been Republican.

Ayup. The truth lies in the national debt, and who contributed to it.

 

[rengadeirishman]

this whole thing makes me want to die now. Knowing that when i finally get through college and grad school, Ill be in a world of hurt trying to pay rising taxes and student loans, and likely, given my field, never be able to own a home in a good school district, and give my children the life i want to give them.

Maybe i should switch to business.

 

[keeblercrumb]

I just blew diet pepsi out of my nose, doggone you. Do you know what it's like to have diet pepsi coming out of your nose? It's not like water, you know. It's more, well, effervescent. It leaves this strange but short lived burning sensation to go along with the whole choking feeling that comes as it backfires into your lungs. Plus this diet pepsi is ice cold. Brain freeze city. This sounds actionable! .

Welll perhaps.... but now I have to send my suit to the cleaners. Thanks.

<rant on>
I find it odd that we as Americans are relying on some of the most awful parts of the industrialized world (I mean, really, would you want to live under Putin, in a land where the population is imploding... or where Chinese troops will put you in prison for calling for Democracy?) - and some of the most unstable economies in the world - to bail us out of our corporate greed-inspired quagmire.

Wishing on the China, Russia or India fairy for our salvation? Man, whodathunkit. I know many free enterprise Reagan voters like myself who utterly cringe at this. Russia and China, in particular, are leopards who are loathe to change their spots. Western democracies will rue the day we economically empowered these nations. We will come to regret it.
<rant off>

Well, as it happens, I do live there. Actually work there. In Russia, that is. In his press conference yesterday, George alluded to the something in the Russian DNA which seems to favor a centralized government. Perhaps.... (many would have made this same argument about Germans and Japanese, not so many years ago) but I think people tend to really favor "things getting better" (Quick! What Kevin Costner movie is that from??)

And make no mistake, things are getting "better" here and quickly. This place was a basket case not so many years ago. It has only been since Putin came to power that the government is actually able to collect taxes! Now? Jobs, cars, shopping centers, and they are even trying to build roads, as well!
Of course $85/barrel oil helps. It is no surprise everyone loves him and will go along with whatever he has to say. Perhaps it is why most American's could give a shit less who was blowing Clinton as long as times stayed good.

Even the imploding population is showing signs of reversing.... lots of babies afoot! (No, I had nothing to do with that!). The imploding statistics are a legacy of the Soviet days and the Yeltsin fiasco. Who would want to raise children in that environment??

I hope we do not rue the day. If Europe and developed Asia prove to be the blueprint, the improved economic conditions across the Asian land mass will mean only good things for us and the world. There is a wide spectrum of forms of government currently within the "west"... from tolerant to intolerant.. controlled to uncontrolled... and many seem to function pretty well. With economic success comes an empowered citizenry. And then comes human rights, etc..

I think sr71plt's formula for survival sounds pretty good. In reality, I plan on working as long as I can, anyway. I don't need to retire to "travel". I just go work places. In addition to all over the US, I have been lucky enough to have worked in Singapore, Australia, England, Ukraine and now Russia. My wife works in Germany. I hope to ride this train til I can’t ride no more.

And when I can't work? I will go find that commune Amicus decided I live in and "watch the evening tire, while all my friends and my old Lady sit and pass the pipe around. And talk of Poems, and Prayers and Promises....."

-KC

 

[sr71plt]

I don't need to retire to "travel". I just go work places. In addition to all over the US, I have been lucky enough to have worked in Singapore, Australia, England, Ukraine and now Russia. My wife works in Germany. I hope to ride this train til I can’t ride no more.

Yep, that was my "success" formula exactly. Live all over the world at regular salary plus danger pay (times two--both husband and wife working) on the government nickel--with housing, travel, car, maid, bodyguard service paid for on top. Socking away what we'd normally be paying for housing and cars and paying for everything (including the kids' college) with cash. No crippling debt for anything. As long as we were able to survive having a bomb dropped in our laps, we were way ahead of the curve. And living outside of the United States was a reward in itself--until we could afford to live well in the States.

And I can feel rengadeirishman's pain about college education costs. We feel so lucky that our children went through when college was still affordable--and that we could manage to pay it off as they went. We put our son through to the doctorate level without debt and then he married a woman who is still burdened with over $80,000 in education loan debt (which was much higher until I've paid some of it off just because I can't imagine living under that sort of burden).

 

[amicus]

this whole thing makes me want to die now. Knowing that when i finally get through college and grad school, Ill be in a world of hurt trying to pay rising taxes and student loans, and likely, given my field, never be able to own a home in a good school district, and give my children the life i want to give them.

Maybe i should switch to business.

~~~

"Miles and Miles to go before I sleep",....smiles and smiles to go before I sleep...I just used those lines recently in a piece here on the forum.

Reminds me of another poem with the line...I paraphrase..."...the fog comes in slowly and silently on little cats paws...." something like that...been a while.

Renegade, don't let these folks get you down. They are the 'second handers' so described by Ayn Rand, that are parasites, sucking from the system, the system they hate and do not understand and lacking that comprehension, fail to acknowledge that it is not the system, but the basic humanity behind all things that eventually rises and maintains stability.

Call it Capitalism, a 'free market', laissez-faire, an open economy, call it what you wish, it is simply the economic expression of human freedom, which once acknowledged will never, ever, fade completely away.

But it does require defense here and there and that requires integrity and knowledge about the basic tenets of human freedom and very few express much respect or even admiration for those values on this forum.

I don't mind that these 'bottom feeders' decided to come out and expose their hideaway plans, nature, reality, needs worms and scavengers to clean up dead things; they too serve a purpose.

In terms of the new concepts rushing about, such as 'global economy', one needs, from time to time, remind oneself that a bare half century ago, the entire world was disrupted by war and entire economies and nations and millions of people were obliterated.

You will notice, in these discussions, that the great trading nations of the past, England, France, Germany, the Dutch, with colonies all over the world, don't even receive mention.

The playing field has changed. The one consistency for about two hundred years, has been the free enterprise Americans, who seem adept enough to maintain balance through the changing environments.

That will continue.

Hang in there Renegade, make your contributions, pay back your college loans and plan for your own brood.

Regards....


Amicus...

 

[trysail]

Well, as it happens, I do live there. Actually work there. In Russia, that is. In his press conference yesterday, George alluded to the something in the Russian DNA which seems to favor a centralized government. Perhaps.... (many would have made this same argument about Germans and Japanese, not so many years ago) but I think people tend to really favor "things getting better" (Quick! What Kevin Costner movie is that from??)

And make no mistake, things are getting "better" here and quickly. This place was a basket case not so many years ago. It has only been since Putin came to power that the government is actually able to collect taxes! Now? Jobs, cars, shopping centers, and they are even trying to build roads, as well! Of course $85/barrel oil helps. It is no surprise everyone loves him and will go along with whatever he has to say. Perhaps it is why most American's could give a shit less who was blowing Clinton as long as times stayed good.

Even the imploding population is showing signs of reversing.... lots of babies afoot! (No, I had nothing to do with that!). The imploding statistics are a legacy of the Soviet days and the Yeltsin fiasco. Who would want to raise children in that environment??

I hope we do not rue the day. If Europe and developed Asia prove to be the blueprint, the improved economic conditions across the Asian land mass will mean only good things for us and the world. There is a wide spectrum of forms of government currently within the "west"... from tolerant to intolerant.. controlled to uncontrolled... and many seem to function pretty well. With economic success comes an empowered citizenry. And then comes human rights, etc..

-KC

It's nice to read your "on the ground" report. I enjoyed it. You see, I have some investments in Russia (some of them going as far back as 2002). They've done handsomely and I'm in for the long haul- my favorite holding period being "forever." I assure you that those investments were not made without some trepidation. With reference to the "Russian DNA" comment, it has to be admitted that there is no tradition of free markets or open society in Russia (in contrast to China which has a long history of merchant capitalism). I'd be lying if I didn't admit that my Russian investments still make me nervous. Like the U.S., it remains a "great experiment" and only time will tell. I don't put all my eggs in one basket; should the Russian experiment end badly, it won't kill me. It is said that Gazprom now has well over one million individual Russians as shareholders.

Let's all hope that, someday, Vladimir Putin does a "George Washington" (i.e., voluntarily transfers the reins of power). In so doing, he would do his country an enormous and great service should he choose that course. We'll see; again, only time will tell.

 

[keeblercrumb]

It's nice to read your "on the ground" report. I enjoyed it. You see, I have some investments in Russia (some of them going as far back as 2002). They've done handsomely and I'm in for the long haul- my favorite holding period being "forever." I assure you that those investments were not made without some trepidation. With reference to the "Russian DNA" comment, it has to be admitted that there is no tradition of free markets or open society in Russia (in contrast to China which has a long history of merchant capitalism). I'd be lying if I didn't admit that my Russian investments still make me nervous. Like the U.S., it remains a "great experiment" and only time will tell. I don't put all my eggs in one basket; should the Russian experiment end badly, it won't kill me. It is said that Gazprom now has well over one million individual Russians as shareholders.

Let's all hope that, someday, Vladimir Putin does a "George Washington" (i.e., voluntarily transfers the reins of power). In so doing, he would do his country an enormous and great service should he choose that course. We'll see; again, only time will tell.

First.... there is no sign that Vladimir Putin will be leaving anytime soon. They really love him here... and the women all want his babies.... It was curious, of course, that until just recently he was a real "broken record" on not wanting to change the constitution so he could continue on as President.... this endeared him even more to the populous. And then.... the other shoe dropped and now he announces that he WOULD be happy, however, to be Prime Minister, a largely figurehead position (until now!)

As for investments.... I am not in the market here, although I have friends who are (I am just to close to the "end" for that much risk) and have done staggeringly well. But the whole Yukos affair made it clear that if Putin does not "like" your politics, your financial security is not worth shit.

But the last 15 years of capitalism here is like watching a compressed version of 150 years of American capitalism..... The great Robber Barrons, the Mafia, etc... it is a fascinating place to be.

Oh... .and the women are pretty good looking as well.

-KC