The appeal of being cuckolded?

[nice90sguy]

Sorry, wrong forum.

 

[cuck72]

For me it's hard to explain because I AM! the jealous type, but I for some reason have always got excited thinking of guys I've known over the years fucking my wife. I just imagine him with a bigger cock and a better lover, then picture how excited and slutty my wife would be with him. And despite my jealousy, I also get these submissive feelings and have bi thoughts that add to the cuckold humiliation I have. My wife was messing around with a guy she worked with, he would call her late at night and I was feeling so hurt and worried she didn't love me anymore, but the next day I was having these fantasies about him fucking my wife, and her giving him lunch time blow jobs. I was hard and jacking off to these images in my perverted head. I wouldn't want to lose my wife, but I do get very excited thinking of her being a slut. We also had some very hot 3sums years ago with a co-worker friend of mine.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why did you think it was the wrong forum and delete the post? It's a perfectly fine question to ask authors at the Author's Hangout.

For the sake of answering your question I'm going to interpret "cuckolding" in a broad way, to include any relationship where the husband consents to or derives pleasure from the wife having sex with other men. There are any number of reasons why people might agree to this.

First, some people are just not monogamous. It's not important to them. They're fine with partners having other partners. This may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it shouldn't be hard to understand how other people may like this arrangement. People like sex. Some people don't need it to be exclusive.

Second, some men love the "hot wife" fantasy. They enjoy having a wife/partner with a super high sex drive and they enjoy that she indulges it. In some cases like this, the "stag/vixen" arrangement, there's no humiliation involved. The husband may even take the alpha role and orchestrate his wife's infidelity. It may be a form of dominance or control. It may or may not be part of a mutual swinging relationship. Again, not everybody's cup of tea, but it shouldn't be that hard to imagine how others might enjoy this.

Third, there are people who DO enjoy humiliation, for all kinds of reasons, men and women. There are men who have "sissy fantasies," or fantasies about being humiliated and replaced by men who are perceived to be "alpha males." This is probably the hardest version for some people to understand, but as far as I can tell it's extremely common.

 

[FromDarkwater]

Thanks for acknowledging that there is a wide range of relationships types that somehow all get classified with the term "cuck"... yet, they have completely different dynamics in each.

 

[Differentendeavours]

Those are good explanations above. I stumbled into the notion that I was a cuckold long before I ever knew the term for it. I didn't know it was a thing and felt weird about it. Still do...lol

 

[NoTalentHack]

SimonDoom did a good job on all three, but I want to go into the humiliation part. It's not my thing, at all, but I spent a lot of time trying to find a reason that someone would like that for a character in a story I'm working on (about a bull that's trying to quit the life so he can settle down and have a normal relationship), and it comes down to perceived gender roles and their interaction with humiliation and degradation.

Cruel cuckolding, which is what you're talking about there, is pretty much just BDSM degradation kink (sometimes) without the accoutrements.

Think about the typical erotica with a dom: they'll call their female sub a slut, whore, or similar term; force her to do degrading things (sexual or otherwise); expose her to others; and deny orgasms or (alternately) force orgasms. Those are all things that woman, societally, have been conditioned to consider degrading and (in more recent years) anti-feminist; that last bit is in flux, with sex positive feminism, "consent is king" attitudes, etc., but that form of degradation still relies on traditional gender norms when it comes to sexuality.

Only about half of that works with a male sub, and then only with modifications. What are you going to call him? A slut? Okay, gladly for most guys. Most of the "degrading" sexual behaviors are penetrative: anal, DV, DP, etc. None of those are degrading to a guy, at least in a heterosexual coupling without toys. Nudity can still work, but it has to be of the kind that would make him seem "less than," like being the only naked person in a room of clothed people, etc. And begging for orgasm? Okay, but you then have to do some extra work there, since guys are... well, they're easy there.

To cause that pain-as-pleasure for guys that female subs get by being degraded in a typically male heteronormative way, you have to completely invert the normal power dynamic. It's not "what (some) guys wants but can't say/do," as it is in the maledom/femsub scene. It has to instead be "what (most) guys really don't want:" caging them, mocking the size of their genitals, being denied sexual gratification by their spouse (and then only giving them the minimum necessary to orgasm, i.e., handies), "forced" bisexuality, and, of course, being forced to watch (or listen, or imagine) as their spouse is taken by a more "manly" man. It's the same (or at least similar) set of cylinders that's firing when the femsub is being told that she's a slut and being told to beg for anal. She's not supposed to like it, and in the brain that's turned on by humiliation, that makes it the sexiest possible thing.

The struggle, the mental one, matters there as well. When it ceases to be humiliating, it becomes less stimulating. So there's the ramping in a lot of stories, not just for literary reasons, but because the cuckold (in a semi-realistic scenario) has to both be uncomfortable enough to enjoy the humiliation without being so humiliated that they tap out. That's less of an issue in stories, but in real life, no one goes from heteronormative desires to cuck in the blink of an eye, just like no one goes from "I dunno, I'd like to be blindfolded maybe?" to "cane me while I deep throat a 12 inch dildo, Daddy!" without a bunch of steps in between.

If you want to read a really good story series about a relationship (that's much more BDSM coded than cuckoldry coded) becoming female-led, oneagainst's Alena's Game is really solid. There's stuff there that people quibble with (some of it is real-world dangerous, etc.), but both the mindset of a man giving into his submissive side and the way his wife pushes his boundaries is covered, and it makes for both a great character study and a sort of primer on femdom/malesub. As someone who is not into that, at all, it was really helpful for me, once I got past my anger on behalf of the MC, even as he's saying "this is what I like." Ingrained gender roles, y'all.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff, the shifting in gender norms, masculinity/femininity as performative, etc. But that's the basics.

p.s. Cuckoldry based in humiliation can include the other stuff as well, i.e., "she always comes back to me because she really does love me," and "I like to see her happy."

 

[Lifestyle66]

I write to the Loving Wives category with stories they describe as "cuck".

As Simon said above, it's not always about humiliation. My stories have a husband-and-wife couple who are very secure in themselves, and they are swingers without jealousy. Sex to them is about having fun, even with others. In my series which developed that couple, they married with the pact: "Never lie to me and give me two weeks' notice if you ever want to leave."

My next story to post at the end of this week has the husband setting up a threesome for his wife as a gift to fulfill one of her fantasies. To this couple, it's a "gift of sex" they give each other, to keep their spouse happy and PREVENT any need for deception or secret affairs. If you think about their relationship, together they each have everything they could ever want, including sex with others! With what other spouse could they ever find such an arrangement?

 

[KeithD]

If the man enjoys watching another man with his wife, he, technically, isn't a cuckold. He's a wittol.

 

[nice90sguy]

Well, thanks for the replies, it clearly wasn't the wrong forum!

The main thing I wanted to limit the question to was to get replies from the "cuckoldee" point of view -- i.e. the person who isn't physically getting his (it's usually HIS) rocks off by it.

I'd speculated as to the reasons, and some of these replies made this a lot clearer to me. I was "cuckolded" by my ex, which basically was a major contributor to the break-up of my first marriage. I felt sad, angry, and my pride had been hurt. "Humiliation" was an understatement for how I felt.

Now: As a guy with more than his fair share of submissive kinks, I do get the "humiliation" aspect.

And I suspected, that there's also a strong element of bisexuality for some guys -- they get off on thinking about , or looking at other guys having sex, not just women.

And I think it shares one feature along with a lot of other submissive kinks, the relinquishing of responsibility. When you're cuckolded, you don't have to worry about whether you're able to satisfy your woman -- the other guy can do it for you.

And there's the purely voyeuristic side too, perhaps:

wittol

Thanks, for that new word to add to my vocabulary!

 

[lovecraft68]

I've always equated cuckolding with a form of submission, like you're being made to do something, but its what you really wanted end of the day.

 

[NoTalentHack]

One other thing that's important and usually not seen in LW and fetish stories: it's usually not a 24/7 thing. The LW cuck stories where the guy is never given relief by the wife, is constantly being forced to sleep in another bed, etc. has as much in common with most real world cuckolding scenarios as the "always collared, always naked 24/7 femsub" has with real life BDSM. It's a fun thing to get both partners off, when done right. Only in the most fucked up and unhealthy of relationships would the wife not let the husband tap out and say, "I can't take this, no really, I'm not playing, please stop." Safewords: they're not just for being tied up anymore!

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

My life truly began when I forgot the safe-word.

 

[SimonDoom]

If the man enjoys watching another man with his wife, he, technically, isn't a cuckold. He's a wittol.

Does anyone actually use this word to describe himself? I haven't seen that. Technically, it's correct, but it's a terrible-sounding word, and I have yet to see anyone in this lifestyle self-describe himself this way. I think this is a case where the traditional cuckold/wittol vocabulary arguably is not helpful because it does not describe the subject matter the way the participants see it.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Among most of the Loving Wives readers, their vocabulary is limited to "wimp", "cuckhold", "whore", and "slut". It would be an impossible task to teach such simple minds another word such as "wittol".

 

[KeithD]

Does anyone actually use this word to describe himself? I haven't seen that. Technically, it's correct, but it's a terrible-sounding word, and I have yet to see anyone in this lifestyle self-describe himself this way. I think this is a case where the traditional cuckold/wittol vocabulary arguably is not helpful because it does not describe the subject matter the way the participants see it.

They don't use it because they aren't aware of the proper term. Doesn't negate that it's the proper term to use. There aren't all that many men who refer to themselves a cuckolds at all, are there? Do you? I don't.

 

[Lifestyle66]

If the man enjoys watching another man with his wife, he, technically, isn't a cuckold. He's a wittol.

Wittol is not the correct term, either.

Webster define wittol as "a man who knows of his wife's infidelity and puts up with it" or "a witless person".

That implies the wife is still cheating, and he (grudgingly?) puts up with it. Or maybe he witlessly allows it, as if ignorant of others' opinions. Even the word "infidelity" is "unfaithful to a moral obligation", and morals are about knowing right from wrong. But it's not wrong, if the husband knows, allows, and encourages it. So even infidelity is incorrect in describing a consensual swinger relationship.

In the case of swingers, a man can ENJOY and even encourage his wife to fuck another guy. In delving into those definitions, cuckold and wittol are both incorrect. Cuckold just becomes a popular insult thrown out by the mass of moral judgmental types.

 

[ofbuttons]

I received some feedback the other day regarding a series I am writing. I had added in my author's note that cuckoldry was a future fetish that may crop up -- I wanted to head people off at the pass about a few different hot button kink topics, as the series develops them over time.

The feedback was positive but essentially asked me to reconsider including cuckoldry. Now, I hadn't gone into detail, but I was using the term in the kink/fetish sense -- if it was pure non-consensual cheating, I would have just said 'cheating'. I know the real definition of cuckold, but in a BDSM-y kinky erotica story, I would be more specific if it wasn't the kink definition.

All this to ask: anyone want to enlighten me about this anonymous comment? Is cuckoldry kink really such a hard limit (in a NC/R story about under-negotiated chastity where people are already behaving badly)? It feels like this is the one thing that readers take super personally, and I don't really understand -- after all, it's just fiction, and I find these stories hot.

As an aside, I have been cheated on in my past, btw, and hated it. I would never wish it on anyone. But in a fictional kink scenario, where it's portrayed as fetish, I enjoy reading/writing it.

But I also don't want to be ignorant/harmful, so looking for opinions. I am not sure if I will reconsider the direction of my series, but I have thoughts on how to handle that subject matter if I don't.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I received some feedback the other day regarding a series I am writing. I had added in my author's note that cuckoldry was a future fetish that may crop up -- I wanted to head people off at the pass about a few different hot button kink topics, as the series develops them over time.

The feedback was positive but essentially asked me to reconsider including cuckoldry. Now, I hadn't gone into detail, but I was using the term in the kink/fetish sense -- if it was pure non-consensual cheating, I would have just said 'cheating'. I know the real definition of cuckold, but in a BDSM-y kinky erotica story, I would be more specific if it wasn't the kink definition.

All this to ask: anyone want to enlighten me about this anonymous comment? Is cuckoldry kink really such a hard limit (in a NC/R story about under-negotiated chastity where people are already behaving badly)? It feels like this is the one thing that readers take super personally, and I don't really understand -- after all, it's just fiction, and I find these stories hot.

As an aside, I have been cheated on in my past, btw, and hated it. I would never wish it on anyone. But in a fictional kink scenario, where it's portrayed as fetish, I enjoy reading/writing it.

But I also don't want to be ignorant/harmful, so looking for opinions. I am not sure if I will reconsider the direction of my series, but I have thoughts on how to handle that subject matter if I don't.

I wrote this in a series of Discord posts a while back about NTR in visual novels (which is a sort of sub-genre of cuckoldry that gets tossed around a lot in anime and visual novel development, where the protagonist not only has the girl taken away from it but has absolutely no recourse at all, usually even walking away), but it applies to a lot of the feelings that cause a lot of folks to feel really uncomfortable about general cuckoldry as well.

TL;DR: Other kinks invoke sense of gain, even if not particularly liked; worst case is ambivalence. NTR invokes sense of loss, which creates a more visceral reaction for most people.

I will say, re: NTR. I'm not a fan of it, but it's also not a dealbreaker for me, gamewise, if it's skippable. And I'll even go down that route when I'm running out of things to do in a game I otherwise like. For the people that have a real revulsion to it (as opposed to something like feet or bondage or some other flavor), it's a feeling of "I'm taking a chance of losing this thing" as opposed to "I'm taking a chance of gaining this thing."

What I mean is that, if you're playing a game and you go along and you really like a character and they go "Oh, would you like a footjob," even if you don't care for that and the dev wasn't thoughtful enough to put in a way to skip that content, your character had, at worst, a mildly unenjoyable experience for you/them. A lot of people have had the experience of having a partner whose kinks didn't line up 100% with theirs, and it's part of the give/take of a relationship to go "eh, this doesn't do it for me, but it does for them, so I'll enthusiastically participate in it for their enjoyment."

But in the case of NTR, it feels like something being taken from the player/character. Going back to the "kinks I'm not into but my partner is," if they like feet, eh, you go along with it for them. If they like fucking other people, that's a much bigger ask for probably 95%+ of folks, because it feels like missing out for most people, missing out on that opportunity to have sex with their partner. And study after study has shown that potential loss is a MUCH bigger motivator than potential gain in the population at large.

And then you add into it that "NTR" can be defined by players (usually depending on their level of aversion to NTR) as everything from "this character had sex offscreen with someone else before the game began and it's described at anything more than the most basic level" to full on "being forced to watch while a group of guys run a train on the main character's wife as they all say things intended to humiliate the main character," and you have an extremely unpopular kink.

And that's before you get into the toxic masculinity, etc. that can often crop up in the AVN player community.

 

[MillieDynamite]

If the man enjoys watching another man with his wife, he, technically, isn't a cuckold. He's a wittol.

Dictionary definition of wittol = wit·tol(wtl) n. Archaic: A man who knows of and tolerates his wife's infidelity.

Nothing in the definition suggests he approves, encourages, watches, or participates.

Dictionary definition of cuckold.

cuck·old(kkld, kk-) n. A man married to an unfaithful wife.

Notice the word Archiac isn’t attached to this definition. Archiac means it isn’t in common use any longer. Wittol has no meaning in the modern lifestyle of a woman who fucks other men with her husband’s consent. Why, no one other than a few (like you) even knows the word exists.

The word wittol has fallen from favor, and men who watch, encourage, arrange for the tryst, or even take part call themselves cucks, cuckolds, or the like. Maybe they need a new unique word. But Keith, trying to make others use the word wittol leaves you floundering at the base of a waterfall; you can’t swim to the top of it.

You are technically right, but it won’t change the perception of the masses that belong to cuckold sites that propagate the internet. Check out The Cuckold Place or Cuckold Consultant. You’re banging your head against a wall, with the world using it the way they want you, and you attempt to stem the tide of their ignorance. They’re blissful in their stupor of obliviousness, and you can’t change them.

I'm not arguing with you and won't express this anymore on this thread.

 

[KeithD]

I see no reason to argue about it either. I neither write nor read very much of that stuff.

 

[lc69hunter]

I was in the cuckold lifestyle for many years when much younger. I tend to like happy scenarios, so I tended to only play with couples when it was a loving, consensual cuckold relationship, with three winners and no losers. I saw mostly gentle teasing and humiliation from the wife, and I did not participate in that. Never saw a cage on a man. Even when the husband had creampie, cleanup duties, even on me at times, I never heard the crude language tossed at him, like you read about in LW.

That is my experience.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

No, lets just marvel in the love and hate of the category.

 

[SimonDoom]

They don't use it because they aren't aware of the proper term. Doesn't negate that it's the proper term to use. There aren't all that many men who refer to themselves a cuckolds at all, are there? Do you? I don't.

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the lifestyle to know what people actually call themselves, but online there are many men who at least like to fantasize about themselves as cuckolds and like thinking of themselves this way.

My general view is that there's no particular value in insisting on the "proper" terms to describe people's kinks and fetishes. I think it's better to take the cue from how the people who participate in those kinks and fetishes actually refer to themselves. Otherwise, you stand a good chance of missing a nuance in the kink or fetish.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I see no reason to argue about it either. I neither write nor read very much of that stuff.

Stag & Vixen would be the proper way to phrase it, I think. Do you agree? Though it's never about humiliation when they self-identify that way, at least the few couples I know don't do the humiliation part.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the lifestyle to know what people actually call themselves, but online there are many men who at least like to fantasize about themselves as cuckolds and like thinking of themselves this way.

My general view is that there's no particular value in insisting on the "proper" terms to describe people's kinks and fetishes. I think it's better to take the cue from how the people who participate in those kinks and fetishes actually refer to themselves. Otherwise, you stand a good chance of missing a nuance in the kink or fetish.

but if you had a Stag & Vixen category it might be some time before the INCEl's found them. lot of value in that.