the AH relationship: digital penpals or something more?

[artisticbiguy]

I will preface this topic with the statement that I do believe meaningful relationships can and do begin online, I've a few very important RL relationships that started that way. That said...

In the 20 or so years I've been communicating with people online (since college in the 80s, prior to internet browsers & html) I have considered most online relationships to be a digital form of the age old "pen pal". A faster, more convenient, slightly more interactive medium of penpalling than SnailMail, but essentually the same. In this type of relationship, deep thoughts, jokes, emotions, and trivial things can be exchanged to that voice in the darkness without the worry of coming face to face with the individual. That freedom of expectation allows for a different kind of intimacy and expression from our physical, tangible relationships. At times it can be the only relationship where one feels one can be truly and wholly one's self.

In the many years I've had pen pals (about 25-30, as I started with school exchange penpals in late elementary), I have had pals from all over the world. When they hurt, I hurt; when they were happy, I was happy for them. If they vanished and I didn't get my regular communication with them, I worried. Very few of them did I ever have the opportunity to meet; the few online ones I chose to make real life contact with have, fortunately, all be positive exchanges (even if not all of these people would I have a real life, intense relationship with).

Yet, online, especially here in the AH, the relationship expectations seem to have blurred. I would never, in a million years, have been jealous if a pen pal had other pen pals (maybe envious, but not jealous). I would not expect a pen pal to write exclusively to me, or only have certain kinds of exchanges only with me. If a penpal shared a private or intimate thought, picture, etc. with me, I certainly wouldn't expect that I was the only person to see or read them. Here, however, people feel snubbed, cheated upon, etc.

I can understand this with people like Vella & Lucky (though I've never seen them behave such) as they have a real life relationship, or Gosling and Mat (they also have never displayed such behaviours). I do not, however, understand that behavior in people who have never met, and more than likely never will. Should AH relationships be monogamous? Can there be AH infidelity?

Though it is true that we can never truly know anyone else, this saying is very timely for online relationships. As an example: save for a few people on the AH, no one can be sure if the images I claim are of me (my AV's and other posted photos) are of me or of someone I know. Maybe Mal and I aren't married... we could even be the same person. The beliefs and convictions I present may be nothing more than an experiment in writing. Yet people become so very attached, to the point of jealousies and arguments and fights, with the digital representations that are presented on the screen.

So, what are AH relationships? I'd like to know what others believe them to be.

 

[Guest]

It's a matter of trust, I think, and how much importance one gives the relationships.

There are several people here to whom I am very attached, yet I know relatively little about them on a "factual" level, and I am perfectly happy with that boundary. Many people feel a need to hide or protect themselves from what they see as a dangerous unknown, while that same danger is part of the reason they venture here. Anonymity creates a kind of freedom.

That said, it is only when I chose to take an online friendship offline that I change my expectations. As long as something exists only online, the "contract" is very small -- I do not try to snoop, stalk, ask others questions, or otherwise penetrate the cloak of anonymity a person creates around themselves.

I also accept people as they present themselves. I do not care who someone "really" is -- reality is such a strange thing to begin with. While I might experience a complete range of emotion in relation to people here, I know there is always the caveat that "it is only online". It is a reality subject to its own rules.

Like you, I've had penpals and online friends for well over 20 years (I started snail mail pen pals when I was 8, which was...oh, a long time ago) and I learned most of my philosophy by making mistakes.

 

[Guest]

IYet people become so very attached, to the point of jealousies and arguments and fights, with the digital representations that are presented on the screen.

So, what are AH relationships? I'd like to know what others believe them to be.

Seems like i am blissfully unaware. I can only speak from experience. I met Nirvana in RL after meeting her on Lit. We talked on the phone and we emailed and had coffee together when I was in London. Since then we have secured a beautiful friendship that I guard with my life.

Eventhough it was a personal dissapointment for me when she met her woman at the AH I wish them all the happiness they deserve.

They belong together. Sometimes life works in ways we don't understand. I don't believe we have to have met someone face to face to have an intimate bond with them.

Anyone who has been in Vana or her woman's presence while they're on the phone or even talk about each other will know what i mean. It's real.

As for other relationships? They all have to start somewhere.

 

[Guest]

Good points, all.

Many of us have spoken on phone to AH friends. Many of us have met in real life or are making plans to do so. That takes it a step further than pen pal status, I think.

But this is a terrific place to begin those relationships, especially when we feel free enough to bring our joys and sorrows into open forum discussion.

Or to just get drunk and flirt.

That's fun, too.

 

[Guest]

what would a online relationship be?
and what would an offline relationship be?

 

[Guest]

I do not care who someone "really" is -- reality is such a strange thing to begin with. While I might experience a complete range of emotion in relation to people here, I know there is always the caveat that "it is only online". It is a reality subject to its own rules.
.

I like this very much. I have been more honest with people online that i have in real life.

just a pity we dont all play by the same rules

 

[matriarch]

At the last count, I've met, and spent time with, 32 AH-ers !! Wow.

They are all as varied, outrageous, interesting, enthralling, amusing, entertaining, supportive in real life as they are on the boards.

We spend so much time together on here, sharing our lives, our secrets, our pain, our love and we have no way of knowing who is, or isn't, telling the truth. Who is, or who isn't, what and who they say. We can only take them on face value, accept what they tell us as the truth, and hope that no-one is maliciously and deliberately lying to us. It would be so very easy to do, but I fail to see the point.

I haven't regretted one second I've spent on here, and have, from day one, accepted that what someone is saying/telling me is the truth. Naive, maybe, but the only way I could have stayed here.

 

[impressive]

At the last count, I've met, and spent time with, 32 AH-ers !! Wow.

They are all as varied, outrageous, interesting, enthralling, amusing, entertaining, supportive in real life as they are on the boards.

Everyone I've met (let's see ... 13? now) has been offline just as they are online.

 

[Liar]

We all lie all the time. And that is not restricted to online interaction. Whenever you have a social interaction with another human being, you construct an image of yourself, and project it. Even if it's not your intention to show a false image, and you don't willfully fabricate stuff, it is still a constructed persona, where you accentuate or suppress things about you. It's natural to protect your private zone.

So what aspects of you is it that the faceless Internet can help you protect? It's a) your looks and b) your identity. And personally, I'm more interrested in the character of a person than those two things.

 

[matriarch]

Everyone I've met (let's see ... 13? now) has been offline just as they are online.

Indeed.

 

[matriarch]

We all lie all the time. And that is not restricted to online interaction. Whenever you have a social interaction with another human being, you construct an image of yourself, and project it. Even if it's not your intention to show a false image, and you don't willfully fabricate stuff, it is still a constructed persona, where you accentuate or suppress things about you. It's natural to protect your private zone.

So what aspects of you is it that the faceless Internet can help you protect? It's a) your looks and b) your identity. And personally, I'm more interrested in the character of a person than those two things.

. .

 

[carsonshepherd]

I do not, however, understand that behavior in people who have never met, and more than likely never will. Should AH relationships be monogamous? Can there be AH infidelity?

I have a bit of experience in this matter and to me, it amounts to one thing: expectations.

Say I have an "online only" relationship with someone. Real-life contact has been offered to me, but I've opted not to take it for various reasons. Do I expect this person to treat me with a certain amount of respect and loyalty? Absolutely. And sometimes they live up to this expectation and sometimes not.

But my loyalty is not based on theirs. When I give my loyalty is because of the way that person makes me feel, not because of what they do. Others might wonder about my loyalty or even disapprove of it, but they don't really understand that it's completely my choice and NOT the choice of the object of my smit. Nobody else makes me feel that way, so while I might flirt and tease with other people, there is no deep connection and thus no loyalty. If someone else puts that expectation on me, they are like to be disappointed. My "online monogamy" is based on what I want, not what someone else wants or demands.

I am not a jealous lover or friend online or in real life. The other person is free to do whatever they choose, although I expect the same freedom (even if I don't get it. ) An "online only" relationship basically happens in one's own head and in my own way, I stay loyal to my object d'smit because nobody else compares.

Does this shed any light on what you're asking ABG?

 

[The_Fool]

We all lie all the time. And that is not restricted to online interaction. Whenever you have a social interaction with another human being, you construct an image of yourself, and project it. Even if it's not your intention to show a false image, and you don't willfully fabricate stuff, it is still a constructed persona, where you accentuate or suppress things about you. It's natural to protect your private zone.

So what aspects of you is it that the faceless Internet can help you protect? It's a) your looks and b) your identity. And personally, I'm more interrested in the character of a person than those two things.

I do not lie, I am a complete and utter fool....humph......

 

[rgraham666]

I don't make a distinction between on-line and off-line. I hold myself to the same standards in both places. And expect the same in return.

As Liar pointed out, we always project facades, what we would like to be rather than who we really are.

One of the things I like best about the AH is I don't have to do that. I'm me here, and I'm accepted here.

I've met two AHers in real life. Neither is exactly as they show themselves here, although very close. I can't say I was disappointed because of this. I still like them both.

 

[carsonshepherd]

We all lie all the time. And that is not restricted to online interaction. Whenever you have a social interaction with another human being, you construct an image of yourself, and project it. Even if it's not your intention to show a false image, and you don't willfully fabricate stuff, it is still a constructed persona, where you accentuate or suppress things about you. It's natural to protect your private zone.

So what aspects of you is it that the faceless Internet can help you protect? It's a) your looks and b) your identity. And personally, I'm more interrested in the character of a person than those two things.

Oh, excellent points here Liar. Sometimes by shedding our images of ourselves, we can be fully who we are.

 

[Liar]

By the way, and I suspect this is true for more than me, the reason I mask my identity here on this board is not because I want to hide the real me from the people here, but because I want to hide the real me from other people. The real me is a regular on a smut site forum. Some tight-asses that I depend on would probably take offense, and cause major inconvenience. And they know how to Google, the bastards.

 

[S-Des]

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. To me, on-line gives people a chance to see me for who I am (I don't lie about anything, precisely because there are no expectations). When I meet someone in real life, they rarely get the chance to know me because I'm very private. They see a part of me, but only a small part.

I haven't been here long enough to understand the subtext of some of the conversations and relationships. Also, I don't make the effort. I prefer to get to know the people the same way they are getting to know me . . . one post at a time. I have a handful of people I PM (and a couple I instant message). Through longer chats, I seem to have connected with people I like and who share traits with me (although not many simiar interests, which interestingly, doesn't seem to matter). These on-line relationships are much more important to me. Like ABG said, my "pen pals" become part of my life and I miss them when they're busy and worry about them.

The AH is a nice place to talk to people and share some opinions. Like any social environment, different people react differently. Some are very sociable and will go out of their way to be in a conversation. Others are more private and only offer opinions or flirt when they feel it's appropriate. I find both equally interesting and try to make no judgements about their motivations. I take 'flirts' with me to be a completely innocent compliment and am happy to see the same person later flirt with someone else. It only becomes more personal when the other person talks to me individually and lets me into their life.



P.S. Liar, you are dead-on. My real life could become very complicated if certain people knew I wrote here. It's nice to see others who can share or find creative ways to almost share. I probably will remain anonymous for my time here (unless I can talk everyone into coming to Chicago for a party ).

 

[Belegon]

my reasons for protecting my identity online are similar to Liars...among other things, I work in a industry known for conservatism and my previous employer still had language in the employee handbook stating basically that people could be fired for creating negative associations with the firm.

...and let's face it, pornster is a negative association for many people.

The people I've met have been very much who I thought they were before meeting them. There are some things that don't translate and just can't. For example, the beauty of Min's laugh or the positive energy that permeates a certain Texas abode. And there are definitely things that have grown out of those meetings that feel more right to me then I can possibly explain.

If I ever did "Draw a line" between two realities, that line is so blurred now as to be impossible to distinguish. I can honestly say that I have friends all over the world.

Edit:
As to the subject of jealousy, my opinion of it in such a forum as this is as virulent as it is in "real" life. It is one of the world's great ills.

 

[The_Fool]

my reasons for protecting my identity online are similar to Liars...among other things, I work in a industry known for conservatism and my previous employer still had language in the employee handbook stating basically that people could be fired for creating negative associations with the firm.

...and let's face it, pornster is a negative association for many people.

The people I've met have been very much who I thought they were before meeting them. There are some things that don't translate and just can't. For example, the beauty of Min's laugh or the positive energy that permeates a certain Texas abode. And there are definitely things that have grown out of those meetings that feel more right to me then I can possibly explain.

If I ever did "Draw a line" between two realities, that line is so blurred now as to be impossible to distinguish. I can honestly say that I have friends all over the world.

Edit:
As to the subject of jealousy, my opinion of it in such a forum as this is as virulent as it is in "real" life. It is one of the world's great ills.

Damn straight....I am jealous of Bel's knees.....

 

[minsue]

I have a bit of experience in this matter and to me, it amounts to one thing: expectations.

Say I have an "online only" relationship with someone. Real-life contact has been offered to me, but I've opted not to take it for various reasons. Do I expect this person to treat me with a certain amount of respect and loyalty? Absolutely. And sometimes they live up to this expectation and sometimes not.

But my loyalty is not based on theirs. When I give my loyalty is because of the way that person makes me feel, not because of what they do. Others might wonder about my loyalty or even disapprove of it, but they don't really understand that it's completely my choice and NOT the choice of the object of my smit. Nobody else makes me feel that way, so while I might flirt and tease with other people, there is no deep connection and thus no loyalty. If someone else puts that expectation on me, they are like to be disappointed. My "online monogamy" is based on what I want, not what someone else wants or demands.

I am not a jealous lover or friend online or in real life. The other person is free to do whatever they choose, although I expect the same freedom (even if I don't get it. ) An "online only" relationship basically happens in one's own head and in my own way, I stay loyal to my object d'smit because nobody else compares.

Does this shed any light on what you're asking ABG?

Well said.

 

[Guest]

Um. What's wrong with jealousy?

 

[Boota]

I've never met anyone from the AH, but I've met a couple people that I knew only from online. So far, so good. They were exactly what I expected and seemed to be sincere. Same with me. I'm always honest in how I deal with people, so if I ever meet any of you at a Litogether or something you will know exactly what to expect. I would guess that is true for most of us on here. No one I know on the AH comes across as a fake to me.

As far as monogamy online I have no experience with that. I've never had that sort of online relationship.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I've been thinking about this for a long time, actually; you beat me to starting a thread, and did an excellent job of setting the stage. The thing I've been thinking about is this: How real are these online relationships? They certainly feel very real. I have a relationship with one person I've met here that has blossomed into what I can't imagine is anything less than an important lifelong friendship. We have shared a lot in a short amount of time. Could that be an illusion? I don't think it is, but can't say for certain that it is not.

More evidence that they are real is the way Colleen's death hit so many people hard. Shereads said it very well on the R.I.P. thread: "The internet is a wonderful, terrible place to make friends. Some of us, shy or just in need of a break from 'real-world' intimacy, come here believing we can enjoy the special people we meet without being vulnerable to them. Then someone like Colly proves us wrong."

There is another aspect to it that must be acknowledged, though, some of which is explained well by ABG. Someone wrote here a while back, "Everything you or I or he or she does and says here is in the interest of making self seem more appealing. Every avatar, signature, profile, and minute comment is calculated." That comes across as excessively cynical, but there is an element of truth to it as well. Of course we try to make ourselves appear appealing, in real life and on-line. In most cases that does not mean that we are dishonest; I couldn't be more certain that almost all of what is said on these boards is honest and sincere.

The difference is, in real life we receive so many more "cues" about what people are really like. In addition, real-life people have personal characteristics and habits that may be very unattractive or irritating, but which do not say anything about their minds or souls. I may have very irritating voice and speech habits, an irritating laugh, chronic flatulence, pick my nose in public, chew with my mouth open and have lousy table manners, etc. But you don't see any of it. Someone may come across here as courtly and graceful, but in real life be very different – and yet there is not necessarily any dishonesty in this.

Here is what I am trying to learn from these relationships on this new medium: Extend the good behaviors that are easy here to my real life relationships, where they are harder. If I gave as many *HUSG* in real life as I do here I would get sore, but I should do it anyway. OK, not necessarily real physical hugs, but all the other kinds of hugs that we give each other here. I've started trying to do this. In some situations it is invisible, as when I listen better than I previously would have. In some situations it makes me look a little weird, as when I tell an old childhood friend how much I think of her. That's OK – that's a weirdness rap I will gladly accept. Progress is slow; character building is the work of a lifetime. Needless to say doing these things makes me a better person, so however real these relationships are or are not, for this they have real value.

I look forward to going back and reading all the posts here.

 

[Belegon]

Um. What's wrong with jealousy?

That's a thread in itself....and I'll resist...this time.

 

[Guest]

I have a relationship with one person I've met here that has blossomed into what I can't imagine is anything less than an important lifelong friendship.

.

lucky chick