The “Twin Towers”, 911, Revisited…

[amicus]

There is a movie coming on, following “The Ghost and Mrs. Muir” with Rex Harrison and Gene Tierney, which I adore; the upcoming film is ‘The Money Pit”, with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long, a 1986 thing I am not going to watch again.

But the opening scenes of ,“The Money Pit”, included the New York City skyline and sure as hell, there they were, the World Trade Center Towers, North and South, standing tall and proud.

And I thought back to when it happened and when the ’talking heads’ said, “we will be changed forever because of this…”, I hate to admit they were right.

I don’t know how you, or any one else responds when you see what I saw, again and again, those Towers still standing.

I feel anger.

I can only guess, but there are dozens, if not hundreds of films, that used the Twin Towers as a centerpiece for a New York City Skyline, and those films never go away.

Because of that incident, that ’terrorist attack’ on American soil, there was a war in Afghanistan and the liberation of the people there; and a war in Iraq, and a liberation of the people there and an ongoing conflict, as the Middle East simmers and boils.

I would like to see the Twin Towers erected again exactly as they were as a middle finger, ‘fuck you’, to the Arab world.

I want Afghanistan and Iraq to become representational republics and I want to see Syria and Iran razed and brought into the 21st century and Saudi Arabia, if need be, and I want Sharia Law gone forever and women’s rights established in the medieval middle east.

I don’t want much, do I?

Amicus…

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I feel sad because my mother's father was one of the engineers that designed the elevator system for the buildings.

 

[tickledkitty]

It's always a jolt to see them, isn't it? You're not even thinking about it or looking for them, just watching some brainless move, and then there they are. Just the way they always were. Then I think about how I felt before 911. Like nothing that horrible could ever happen here. Some things, like the New York skyline, would never change.

Not feeling quite so safe anymore.

 

[amicus]

I feel sad because my mother's father was one of the engineers that designed the elevator system for the buildings.

~~~

Over the years I have watched several programs concerning the construction techniques used for erection of the towers, from below ground up, including the elevators and stairways and fire protection.

You should not, I think, feel remorse in any aspect of the engineering design as it was state of the art and even designed to withstand the impact of a commercial size aircraft as was available at the time.

What was not considered and possibly could not be engineered for to prevent, was a fully fueled aircraft of that size and the consequences of the intense fire and temperatures created by that amount of jet fuel.

The unique and new architectural design of the buildings was a step forward, an innovation in design technology.

The buildings withstood the impact, which was tremendous, but the jet fueled fires weakened the steel structure beyond capacity and thus the collapse.

What I have found interesting in absentia, is that these attacks were planned, in part, by an architectural engineer, who found a 'weakness' in the overall construction and exploited it.

I would like to find that bastard and castrate him, slowly, with a dull knife, or if female, find a similar painful equivalent.

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

It's always a jolt to see them, isn't it? You're not even thinking about it or looking for them, just watching some brainless move, and then there they are. Just the way they always were. Then I think about how I felt before 911. Like nothing that horrible could ever happen here. Some things, like the New York skyline, would never change.

Not feeling quite so safe anymore.

~~~

Yes, exactly, tickledkitty, I was doing something else and looked up when the movie came on and there they were.

And I did not really think it would change us, America, forever...but it has. And we have changed in response, more protective, more concerned, more security conscious which expends time and energy in a defensive mode, not a productive one and that too, is of concern.

Thank you.

Amicus...

 

[TheeGoatPig]

~~~

Over the years I have watched several programs concerning the construction techniques used for erection of the towers, from below ground up, including the elevators and stairways and fire protection.

You should not, I think, feel remorse in any aspect of the engineering design as it was state of the art and even designed to withstand the impact of a commercial size aircraft as was available at the time.

What was not considered and possibly could not be engineered for to prevent, was a fully fueled aircraft of that size and the consequences of the intense fire and temperatures created by that amount of jet fuel.

The unique and new architectural design of the buildings was a step forward, an innovation in design technology.

The buildings withstood the impact, which was tremendous, but the jet fueled fires weakened the steel structure beyond capacity and thus the collapse.

What I have found interesting in absentia, is that these attacks were planned, in part, by an architectural engineer, who found a 'weakness' in the overall construction and exploited it.

I would like to find that bastard and castrate him, slowly, with a dull knife, or if female, find a similar painful equivalent.

Amicus...

I know all about that stuff as well. Hell, I work for an architectural firm now as well.

I'm upset because my grandfather's greatest engineering achievement that paid for his retirement isn't there anymore, and I will never get to stand atop those towers (that were just 90 minutes drive from my house) ever now.

 

[amicus]

I know all about that stuff as well. Hell, I work for an architectural firm now as well.

I'm upset because my grandfather's greatest engineering achievement that paid for his retirement isn't there anymore, and I will never get to stand atop those towers (that were just 90 minutes drive from my house) ever now.

~~~

Ah, okay...I understand...I was fortunate enough to visit the top of the Empire State Building, but the time frame preceded the Towers; don't get old, there ain't no future in it.

regards..


amicus...

 

[cloudy]

I know all about that stuff as well. Hell, I work for an architectural firm now as well.

I'm upset because my grandfather's greatest engineering achievement that paid for his retirement isn't there anymore, and I will never get to stand atop those towers (that were just 90 minutes drive from my house) ever now.

I'm not upset. Not anymore.

I had a family member die in one of those towers. I suppose I should be upset, though, that people can't stand on top of them anymore.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I was up in one of the towers for a party one night. You could actually feel the building sway in the wind. The view was fantastic...the lights of the city glowing in the clear night sky. This was back in the '80s on one of the many trips I made to New York in the course of my job back then.

 

[amicus]

I was up in one of the towers for a party one night. You could actually feel the building sway in the wind. The view was fantastic...the lights of the city glowing in the clear night sky. This was back in the '80s on one of the many trips I made to New York in the course of my job back then.

~~~

I envy you that opportunity, I felt the same at the top of the Empire State; but I think what you said, and what Cloudy said, adds to my conclusion that the event, tragedy, changed us forever. Things are not as they were and perhaps never will be again.

Amicus...

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I'm not upset. Not anymore.

I had a family member die in one of those towers. I suppose I should be upset, though, that people can't stand on top of them anymore.

I'm sorry to hear that.

And surprised that I didn't know anyone injured or killed. But glad.

I did know someone who claimed to run the barricades as they were being put up on the George Washington Bridge, but I don't believe him

 

[slyc_willie]

I remember being up on the observation deck (Tower One, I think) back in '96 and watching how the horizon would tilt just a little, since the buildings actually swayed. I kept thinking, what if they fell down? What kind of damage would they cause?

Unfortunately, now we know.

One of my favorite movies that I love watching over and over is Escape From New York. Every time Snake Pliskin lands that glider on the roof of the WTC, though . . . makes me kind of shiver every time.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I remember being up on the observation deck (Tower One, I think) back in '96 and watching how the horizon would tilt just a little, since the buildings actually swayed. I kept thinking, what if they fell down? What kind of damage would they cause?

Unfortunately, now we know.

One of my favorite movies that I love watching over and over is Escape From New York. Every time Snake Pliskin lands that glider on the roof of the WTC, though . . . makes me kind of shiver every time.

I saw the remake of "King Kong", which was inferior to the original, in my opinion, but the climax centered on the WTC, rather on the ESB. That will never be the same.

One thing that has changed is that people, airline personnel and passengers, will never again be sheep during an airliner hijacking, if such a thing ever even happens again. Five men, armed with boxcutters, or even switchblades, will never be able to control hundreds of people. Instead, the hundreds will mob them, beat them to a pulp, and try to figure out how to safely throw the bastards out the hatches.

 

[mikey2much]

The towers came down because we had already changed

I am sorry to say this but the towers came down because we had already changed. I wish that someone would find and post the speeches our glorious leader made in the first year of his rule. I remember one part of one speech where he said that "Nation building was not our job, that when the folks in the middle east wanted peace there would be peace , but until then it was not our problem."

He said it and we backed away leaving the Jewish state the only well armed nation over there and they went crazy. With illegal settlements blooming like weeks in a garden and the rights of all non-jewish people washed away in a sea of military checkpoints and oversights.

I love America and I have fought for my country but this is not the nation we had set out to become. Look around you at what we have become today.
Open your eyes to what is real and get over this sick feeling that we were attacked for nothing. The towers came down because we turned our backs on our responsibilites. It was a self-inflicted wound, just like the the menu of laws passed since then to control the american people.

The so called war on terror is really a war on everybody who disagrees with our rulers. I am one of those people and I really hate to see the american people have the wool pulled over their eyes once again by guys like Amicus.

I am truely sorry for the lost of lives that day. Good people always get hurt by bad governments. We need to change the government, and try to get back to where we were trying to go before. One country, with liberty and Justice for all.

Can anybody out there see these clowns in office now thinking that way?

Please don't think that you are doing the right thing to back these murderous
thugs that have taken over our sweet land with their lies and fear mongering.

America deserves a chance to find it's place as the leader of the 'Free World', not the leader of a gang of despots who rule by force and control thoughts with false infomation.

I am aware that I will be flamed for these thoughts, that is the price you pay when you tell the truth these days. When you are writing your replies please take a moment to consider what I am saying. You can bet the the government worker who is reading over your shoulder as you type your reply or listening in on your phone calls will take the time to make a note of my statements.

We were a free country once, we can be again once we get these fucking holy rollers out of our lives. The church always corrupts goverment, always has, always will. The only reason we stayed free as long as we did was the seperation of church and state laws that protected us from the religious nuts on the right.

The people who brought down the towers was us when we elected this group of fools to lead us. We can fix this if we all work together, we are americans. We are the people who have lead the world toward the light of freedom for over two hundred years.

Our government has always leaned toward bcoming a dicatorship, that is the nature of goverments. Up until this time we have been able to take comfort and protection in the bill of rights and the constitution. We are on the verge of losing those protections if we don't act soon.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I am sorry to say this but the towers came down because we had already changed. I wish that someone would find and post the speeches our glorious leader made in the first year of his rule. I remember one part of one speech where he said that "Nation building was not our job, that when the folks in the middle east wanted peace there would be peace , but until then it was not our problem."

He said it and we backed away leaving the Jewish state the only well armed nation over there and they went crazy. With illegal settlements blooming like weeks in a garden and the rights of all non-jewish people washed away in a sea of military checkpoints and oversights.

I love America and I have fought for my country but this is not the nation we had set out to become. Look around you at what we have become today.
Open your eyes to what is real and get over this sick feeling that we were attacked for nothing. The towers came down because we turned our backs on our responsibilites. It was a self-inflicted wound, just like the the menu of laws passed since then to control the american people.

The so called war on terror is really a war on everybody who disagrees with our rulers. I am one of those people and I really hate to see the american people have the wool pulled over their eyes once again by guys like Amicus.

I am truely sorry for the lost of lives that day. Good people always get hurt by bad governments. We need to change the government, and try to get back to where we were trying to go before. One country, with liberty and Justice for all.

Can anybody out there see these clowns in office now thinking that way?

Please don't think that you are doing the right thing to back these murderous
thugs that have taken over our sweet land with their lies and fear mongering.

America deserves a chance to find it's place as the leader of the 'Free World', not the leader of a gang of despots who rule by force and control thoughts with false infomation.

I am aware that I will be flamed for these thoughts, that is the price you pay when you tell the truth these days. When you are writing your replies please take a moment to consider what I am saying. You can bet the the government worker who is reading over your shoulder as you type your reply or listening in on your phone calls will take the time to make a note of my statements.

We were a free country once, we can be again once we get these fucking holy rollers out of our lives. The church always corrupts goverment, always has, always will. The only reason we stayed free as long as we did was the seperation of church and state laws that protected us from the religious nuts on the right.

The people who brought down the towers was us when we elected this group of fools to lead us. We can fix this if we all work together, we are americans. We are the people who have lead the world toward the light of freedom for over two hundred years.

Our government has always leaned toward bcoming a dicatorship, that is the nature of goverments. Up until this time we have been able to take comfort and protection in the bill of rights and the constitution. We are on the verge of losing those protections if we don't act soon.

The attack on the Twin Towers did not happen spontaneously. I mean, Bin Ladin did not say on 9-10-01 "Hey, I know. Let's hijack some airplanes and fly them into some American buildings." The planning started before Bush was elected, and would have happened even if SCOTUS had allowed the voters in Florida to be disenfranchised.

Israel is not the only well-armed nation in the Middle East. They (probably) don't have nuclear bombs, like Pakistan and their military is smaller than that of Iran or Iraq under Saddam. However, when they are pushed into war, as has happened several times over the last sixty years, they fight well, knowing they are literally fighting for their lives.

Arabs in Israel probably have more rights than Arabs or other Muslims in Muslim nations. Some are actually members of the parliament. However, because of the constant danger of homocide bombers and other fanatics, they carefully watch everybody, even Jews.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

a bunch of stuff not pertaining

Way to turn a memorial thread into a political topic.

 

[mikey2much]

Israel is not the only well-armed nation in the Middle East. They (probably) don't have nuclear bombs, like Pakistan and their military is smaller than that of Iran or Iraq under Saddam. However, when they are pushed into war, as has happened several times over the last sixty years, they fight well, knowing they are literally fighting for their lives.

I think nearly everyone agrees that Israel has several bombs, and I think that it would be a more advanced version then Pakistan has. I have been reading the horror story that passes for everyday life in the Gaza strip for years and it has only grown worst. As for Israel's defense, they have invaded their neighbors several times in the last few years. I wouldn't want them as a neighbor and I don't think you would either. However I don't think that they should be left out there surrounded by people who hate them. I think we should stand by them because if for no other reason, they have always stood by us when we needed them.
However we should expect them to do right by their people and the people who live around them. If we are giving them the means to wage their war, we should be responsible for what they do. Instead we turned our backs and let the situation go to hell over there.

 

[mikey2much]

Way to turn a memorial thread into a political topic.

I am afraid that the politics is what made the world trade center become a memorial. The only good perpose that it can now serve is to make us aware of what caused it to happen in the first place.

I certainly don't mean to take anything away from the value of the people lost. I just want the blame to fall where it belongs.

 

[cloudy]

I am afraid that the politics is what made the world trade center become a memorial.

No.

What made it a memorial is that thousands of people, people like you and me, with families that loved them, died there.

One of them was one of my family.

I hate Bush as much as anyone, but you cheapen Daniel's death by turning it into a political tool for you to use. Leave him, and the rest of them, alone.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

No.

What made it a memorial is that thousands of people, people like you and me, with families that loved them, died there.

One of them was one of my family.

I hate Bush as much as anyone, but you cheapen David's death by turning it into a political tool for you to use. Leave him, and the rest of them, alone.

I'm in with cloudy on this. We had an office in one of the towers and all of our agents were in that day. All of us hunting for our clients desperately trying to get all of them and us back into the country just to be told our friends were gone and one of then newly back at work from having had a baby. Though I know in my heart that vengance is not what they would look for nor fights to cheapen their memory. 'Light a candle of strength, stand tall as one and never give in the wind.'

 

[mikey2much]

No.

What made it a memorial is that thousands of people, people like you and me, with families that loved them, died there.

One of them was one of my family.

I hate Bush as much as anyone, but you cheapen Daniel's death by turning it into a political tool for you to use. Leave him, and the rest of them, alone.

I know that you live out in the country close to the warpath and that you get on it very quickly when somebody writes something that you disagree with. However I think that keeping the fire to the feet of those that caused this is not cheapening to anyone. This is not just politics to me, it is the real world and if we stand around and do nothing, nothing will get done. I don't want a memorial, I want a reckoning. I want those who did this to pay a price. Even at the expense of upsetting you if need be.

 

[mikey2much]

I'm in with cloudy on this. We had an office in one of the towers and all of our agents were in that day. All of us hunting for our clients desperately trying to get all of them and us back into the country just to be told our friends were gone and one of then newly back at work from having had a baby. Though I know in my heart that vengance is not what they would look for nor fights to cheapen their memory. 'Light a candle of strength, stand tall as one and never give in the wind.'

Please take just a moment and imagine that I am right in this, ( I truely believe that I am,) And Bush and his cronies started the chain of events that led up to this awful act. Wouldn't you want them to be held accountable for their actions? I don't want to step on anyones toes or feelings here but we have to talk about this. We have to punish those who brought this about. There are already too many things that we, as americans, aren't talking about. Lets not make this another one of them.
I have had my say, I will go back to lurking now.

 

[cloudy]

Please take just a moment and imagine that I am right in this, ( I truely believe that I am,) And Bush and his cronies started the chain of events that led up to this awful act. Wouldn't you want them to be held accountable for their actions? I don't want to step on anyones toes or feelings here but we have to talk about this. We have to punish those who brought this about. There are already too many things that we, as americans, aren't talking about. Lets not make this another one of them.
I have had my say, I will go back to lurking now.

no one says you have to stop talking. Don't be so damn touchy.

Here's a question for you: when does the "punishing" stop? So, we punish those who did this. Let's call it what it really is: retaliation. Then they retaliate against us, then it's our turn again, ad nauseum. In reality, by doing so, we are no better than those who started it if we keep up the feud.

Is that the type of future you wish to see?

It sure isn't one I like to contemplate.

eta: I'll admit, after it happened, and we knew Daniel was gone - even though it was Christmas before they found enough of him to identify - I was like you. I wanted them dead...NOW. I wanted them drawn and quartered, and paraded around, humiliated, tortured.

Now, I just want peace. And retaliation does absolutely nothing towards that goal. Anger begets anger. I'm better than that.

 

[dominic42]

i was watching godspell the other night and one of the scenes was filmed on the roof during construction.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I know that you live out in the country close to the warpath and that you get on it very quickly when somebody writes something that you disagree with. However I think that keeping the fire to the feet of those that caused this is not cheapening to anyone. This is not just politics to me, it is the real world and if we stand around and do nothing, nothing will get done. I don't want a memorial, I want a reckoning. I want those who did this to pay a price. Even at the expense of upsetting you if need be.

The people who caused this were a few radical Islamists, who hate anybody who doesn't agree with their twisted interpretation of one of the great religions of the world. However, I am in agreement with Cloudy and TGP and The Vamp. I don't want to argue on this thread. If you want to start a new one, we can go at it there.