Thanks to Offshoring, China's economy has grown 10% at the expense of OUR ECONOMY

[Le Jacquelope]

Here's a hint: When you MANUFACTURE and EXPORT goods, you are on the rise. When you are exporting jobs and IMPORTING goods more than you are MANUFACTURING GOODS... you are declining.

Stupid neo conservatives will get what that means only if our relations with China sours and they decide to embargo the US.....




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060125...XMktXv9xg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

China's Economy Hits Growth Spurt

By ELAINE KURTENBACH, AP Business Writer2 hours, 33 minutes ago

China's economy expanded by a stunning 9.9 percent in 2005 according to data released Wednesday which suggests it may now rank the fourth-biggest in the world.

Spurred by strong exports and foreign investment, growth in the fourth quarter was also up 9.9 percent from the same period a year ago.

For all of 2005, China's gross domestic product totaled $2.26 trillion, the National Bureau of Statistics said.

According to recent estimates, that would make China's economy the fourth largest in the world, behind the United States, Japan and Germany, after steamrolling past Britain, France and Italy.

The economy is showing hardly any signs of slowing down despite efforts by the communist leadership to curb excessive investments in construction and redundant factories that have strained transport networks and supplies of energy and other resources.

Growth in 2004 was 10.1 percent — a figure recently revised up from the original 9.5 percent based on an economic census that uncovered much larger than expected growth in the services sector.

Chinese economic data are notoriously unreliable, and some economists questioned whether the figures announced Wednesday were understating real growth, given a nearly 30 percent surge in exports and strong domestic spending.

The 9.9 percent figure "doesn't quite capture it," said Stephen Green, senior economist for Standard Chartered Bank in Shanghai. "One could say that 9.9 percent is a very convenient number; it's not 10 percent. Ten percent might scare people, and might create more trade friction with the U.S."

While many other countries have yet to release 2005 GDP figures, according to the most recent figures available and projections for the year, China's economy is now bigger than those of Britain, France and Italy.

But while its growth has been meteoric, China remains a developing economy — that wealth is spread among a population of 1.3 billion people, a large share of whom live in poverty.

The Statistics Bureau said GDP growth in the first three quarters of 2005 was revised upward from preliminary estimates, to 9.9 percent in the first quarter, 10.1 percent in the second and 9.8 percent in the third, from 9.4 percent, 9.5 percent and 9.4 percent, respectively.

The economy has consistently overshot official targets for the past several years. Perhaps partly for that reason, officials presenting the report did not offer forecasts for 2006. Government economists earlier offered predictions of between 8.5 percent and 9 percent for this year, a range in line with estimates by the World Bank and many private economists.

One of the key factors behind last year's better-than-expected performance was strong investment in construction and factories. Such spending grew a robust 25.7 percent to $1.1 trillion, and officials warned of problems in keeping it under control.

Retail sales, an increasingly important driver for growth, climbed 12.9 percent year-on-year to $831 billion, the Statistics Bureau reported.

Chinese officials have stressed the need to reduce the reliance on exports, which accounted for more than 30 percent of GDP growth in 2005, by further boosting domestic spending.

"We believe domestic demand will increasingly become a much more important driver for growth...in the coming years," Liang Hong, the chief China economist for Goldman Sachs, said in a research note.

The consumer price index, China's main gauge of inflation, rose a mere 1.8 percent last year. Surging costs for raw materials and fuel were countered by falling prices for many industrial goods, reflecting overcapacity in key sectors such as autos and steel.

Excess production is squeezing profit margins, economists have warned. Li Deshui, director of the Statistics Bureau, told reporters the trend could lead to higher bankruptcies. It could also sap investment demand at a time when export growth is bound to begin slowing, said Green of Standard Chartered.

Nevertheless, the government report forecast a positive outlook for the economy this year.

 

[shoulderblade]

added tidbits

China has overtaken Japan as the second largest producer of cars and trucks.

As of 2008 Chinas largest auto maker 'Geely' intends to export autos into the U.S. at a price - less than $10,000 (U.S.)

I have read that approx. 90% of CD's and DVD's sold in China are copies and not legit company products. Alot of lost revenue to western companies and the trade balance.

Even the gov. of China has a programme to eliminate copied software from its computers.

Possibly growing public debt in America will alert 'stupid neo-conservatives' to the problem even if the relationship does not sour.

One thing about China. They are quite clear that they crave economic growth and power and no-one really does anything to curb it. They have been given the opportunity and they have taken it.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Neo conservatives have absolutely no idea what can happen with China holding $800 bil of US debt. They think it's a non issue.

http://vidangesdudiable.blogspirit.com/images/medium_head-in-sand.jpg

 

[unregistered]

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Here's a hint: When you MANUFACTURE and EXPORT goods, you are on the rise. When you are exporting jobs and IMPORTING goods more than you are MANUFACTURING GOODS... you are declining.


There is no need to read any further in order to illuminate the bankruptcy of your economic education. The quote above will suffice quite nicely. let me give you a hint:

When America imports more than it exports it simply means we are getting more and paying less for it, nothing more. Do you normally pay more for less in your own personal economy? Free trade with China, Japan, Taiwan, etc., benefits all American consumers.

Sadly, you are proving yourself to be abysmally ignorant yet again.

1) When America imports more than it exports, it means we are losing good paying jobs. That is why America's job outlook now points mainly to a service economy - which means a handful of nursing and teaching jobs at best, and for the most part, cooks, waiters and cashiers. Everything else is moving overseas. Even management jobs are not secure.

2) When America imports what it used to manufacture, we become vulnerable to embargoes. See: the oil crisis.


Free trade is a wage race to the very bottom.


Foolish child. When you don't produce a product, you ain't worth shit, boy. What happens when that foreign country steals your intellectual property and decides to compete against you with it? I'll tell you what happens. Cherry QQ happens. Look it up. Oh I'm sorry, Vetteman, this is way beyond those trailer park lectures you call your economic education.

 

[JammieDodger]

Good, they have a much richer culture. Go China!

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Good, they have a much richer culture. Go China!

Yeah, at the expense of our country and yours.

So what happens if China decides to seize the factories on their land? They get all your country's industrial capacity, that's what. Then they call in your debt that they hold.

What happens next? Well... in a picture...

http://www.offramp.org/~lapis/images/pwned.jpg

 

[unregistered]

 

[fingermagic]

Here's a hint: When you MANUFACTURE and EXPORT goods, you are on the rise. When you are exporting jobs and IMPORTING goods more than you are MANUFACTURING GOODS... you are declining.

Stupid neo conservatives will get what that means only if our relations with China sours and they decide to embargo the US.....




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060125...XMktXv9xg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

China's Economy Hits Growth Spurt

By ELAINE KURTENBACH, AP Business Writer2 hours, 33 minutes ago

China's economy expanded by a stunning 9.9 percent in 2005 according to data released Wednesday which suggests it may now rank the fourth-biggest in the world.

Spurred by strong exports and foreign investment, growth in the fourth quarter was also up 9.9 percent from the same period a year ago.

For all of 2005, China's gross domestic product totaled $2.26 trillion, the National Bureau of Statistics said.

According to recent estimates, that would make China's economy the fourth largest in the world, behind the United States, Japan and Germany, after steamrolling past Britain, France and Italy.

The economy is showing hardly any signs of slowing down despite efforts by the communist leadership to curb excessive investments in construction and redundant factories that have strained transport networks and supplies of energy and other resources.

Growth in 2004 was 10.1 percent — a figure recently revised up from the original 9.5 percent based on an economic census that uncovered much larger than expected growth in the services sector.

Chinese economic data are notoriously unreliable, and some economists questioned whether the figures announced Wednesday were understating real growth, given a nearly 30 percent surge in exports and strong domestic spending.

The 9.9 percent figure "doesn't quite capture it," said Stephen Green, senior economist for Standard Chartered Bank in Shanghai. "One could say that 9.9 percent is a very convenient number; it's not 10 percent. Ten percent might scare people, and might create more trade friction with the U.S."

While many other countries have yet to release 2005 GDP figures, according to the most recent figures available and projections for the year, China's economy is now bigger than those of Britain, France and Italy.

But while its growth has been meteoric, China remains a developing economy — that wealth is spread among a population of 1.3 billion people, a large share of whom live in poverty.

The Statistics Bureau said GDP growth in the first three quarters of 2005 was revised upward from preliminary estimates, to 9.9 percent in the first quarter, 10.1 percent in the second and 9.8 percent in the third, from 9.4 percent, 9.5 percent and 9.4 percent, respectively.

The economy has consistently overshot official targets for the past several years. Perhaps partly for that reason, officials presenting the report did not offer forecasts for 2006. Government economists earlier offered predictions of between 8.5 percent and 9 percent for this year, a range in line with estimates by the World Bank and many private economists.

One of the key factors behind last year's better-than-expected performance was strong investment in construction and factories. Such spending grew a robust 25.7 percent to $1.1 trillion, and officials warned of problems in keeping it under control.

Retail sales, an increasingly important driver for growth, climbed 12.9 percent year-on-year to $831 billion, the Statistics Bureau reported.

Chinese officials have stressed the need to reduce the reliance on exports, which accounted for more than 30 percent of GDP growth in 2005, by further boosting domestic spending.

"We believe domestic demand will increasingly become a much more important driver for growth...in the coming years," Liang Hong, the chief China economist for Goldman Sachs, said in a research note.

The consumer price index, China's main gauge of inflation, rose a mere 1.8 percent last year. Surging costs for raw materials and fuel were countered by falling prices for many industrial goods, reflecting overcapacity in key sectors such as autos and steel.

Excess production is squeezing profit margins, economists have warned. Li Deshui, director of the Statistics Bureau, told reporters the trend could lead to higher bankruptcies. It could also sap investment demand at a time when export growth is bound to begin slowing, said Green of Standard Chartered.

Nevertheless, the government report forecast a positive outlook for the economy this year.

We also outsource way to much porn these days too. Will it never end!

 

[JammieDodger]

Yeah, at the expense of our country and yours.

So what happens if China decides to seize the factories on their land? They get all your country's industrial capacity, that's what. Then they call in your debt that they hold.

What happens next? Well... in a picture...

I don't approve of the human rights issues in China.. or the beating of the environment required to make progress.. but I do believe economic progress will change these very things that are fueling it for the good and I do hold 1.3 billion people's lives and quality of life as being higher than both mine and 60 million other's.

 

[JammieDodger]

We also outsource way to much porn these days too. Will it never end!

Yeah.. outsourcing porn.. that sucks.. just so I can further describe how it sucks where would I find this chinky porn, exactly?

 

[fingermagic]

Yeah.. outsourcing porn.. that sucks.. just so I can further describe how it sucks where would I find this chinky porn, exactly?

In the Phillipines

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Sadly, you are proving yourself to be abysmally ignorant yet again.

1) When America imports more than it exports, it means we are losing good paying jobs.


Who wants or needs those jobs?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHHAHHA!!!!

Holy shit, dude, there are countless Americans I can introduce you to who were doing those jobs before they lost them, and have nothing but Mickey D's jobs to go to now.

We cannot eat, wear, or use the products we send overseas. Would you rather protect a few jobs or a higher standard of living? Unemployment is about 5.5% that means 94.5% of the American labor pool is actively employed,

BZZZZZZT. We had a hell of a lot of manufacturing jobs, not just a few. Unemployment doesn't count those who have given up looking for work, nor does it count those who have been laid off of good paying (hello, Aerojet?) jobs and are now working cashier jobs.

That 5.5% thing you neo cons keep bringing up is deceptive and inaccurate, to say the least.

and since 70% of the 5.5% are jobs that are is always in flux what more could you want? We have the highest standard of living in the world driven by a 12 trillion dollar economy,

You forgot all the national and consumer debt that has been run up in the last few decades. People are going deep into debt to fuel that standard of living, and eventually that debt is going to get called in. People are going their entire lives staying deep in debt. Do you even know what that means?

almost three times as large as the next in line. What more is there...Utopia? Our system is not designed to be everything to everybody, only the best for the most.

I noticed you did not address several points I made which nullify this argument of yours.

a) what happens when China calls in our debt?
b) what happens when China embargoes us?
c) what happens when China steals our technology from those overseas factories and competes directly against us? Go look up Huawei and Cherry Corporation for a clue as to what happens.

Why are you always dodging those questions?

 

[Ham Murabi]

So, LT, if China's economy is growing at the expense of the U.S., how much did our economy shrink in the last year?

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[shoulderblade]

unreality of debt

Question for LT or whoever re. the quality of American gov. debt.

The government lowers taxes in order to stimulate the ecomomy and increase overall revenue.
Congress however subverts the process by increasing spending and increasing overall debt.
Presently gov. debt is being issued at about 4.5%. However real growth in GDP - inflation is much less than 4.5%.

So how could anyone believe this debt can be paid given the difference between real growth and offered rate of return/compounded?

Icing - At some point lowering taxes will not generate more revenue but the opposite, raising taxes, would slow the economy.

Agree with LV there are serious problems here but I dont think the Chinese even have to make a move. Unless you are hoarding currency reserves there is little reason (aside from basic security) to go for this option.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Actually it grew about 4%

It grew 4 percent? On a $12 trillion economy. That's fairly astounding. As a matter of fact, that 4 percent growth on a $12 trillion economy might be a hell of a lot more impressive than 10 percent growth on a puny $2.2 trillion economy.
Look at this another way. Our economy is five times the size of China's, yet our population is about one-third that of China's. I wonder who has the higher standard of living?
This month the U.S. has lost 15 miners in accidents. That's tragic. 15 dead miners amounts to a slow week in China.

 

[IndulgeYourself]

And they're also taking over Airbus manufacturing and sales

[good grief, "Welcome to Air China, will that be 2 for Taiwan-CheapSeats Class or...."]


Airbus flies high in China
( 2004-01-17 09:31) (China Daily)

The world's top commercial aircraft manufacturer Airbus said it received 36 new orders last year and made 36 separate deliveries in China, a significant business move for the multinational.


Airbus China President Laurence Barron (center) announced at a Friday press conference in Beijing that it received 36 new orders last year and made 36 separate deliveries in China. [newsphoto.com.cn]
"Both the new orders and deliveries accounted for more than 10 per cent of Airbus' business worldwide," Airbus China President Laurence Barron said in Beijing on Friday.

Airbus' goal in China is to take at least 50 per cent of the market share, as it has been doing in the rest of the world, he said.

Airbus will also intensify industrial co-operation and make efforts to be recognized as No 1 in customer service in China, Barron added.

The aircraft maker's business in China has been steadily expanding since it first entered the country in 1985, he said.

The Airbus fleet in service on the Chinese mainland, Hong Kong and Macao has grown to around 220 today from 29 in 1995.

Five Chinese manufacturers are already involved in the manufacturing of Airbus parts, such as wing components and passenger doors, he said.

"Airbus is not only selling aircraft in China, but is also committed to the long-term development of China's aviation industry," he said.

Airbus plans to considerably increase its procurement from China in the coming years worth an estimated US$60 million annually by 2007 from the current level of about US$10 million annually, he said.

Industrial co-operation between Airbus and the Chinese aviation industry began in 1985, when the General Administration of Civil Aviation of Shanghai, now China Eastern Airlines, became the first carrier in China to operate the European consortium's aircraft.

Contracts for Chinese companies to build sections of Airbus aircraft followed, as did further orders from Chinese airlines.

Aerospatiale, which is now Airbus France, signed the first product sub-contracting agreement in 1985 with Xi'an Aircraft Company on manufacturing and assembling access doors for Airbus A300/A310 wide-body aircraft.

Since then, the total value of projects subcontracted by Airbus to Chinese manufacturers has exceeded US$500 million.

In 2002, Chinese manufacturers delivered more than US$12 million worth of aircraft components to Airbus.

"Airbus' industrial co-operation with China made further progress last year," Barron said.

In October, Airbus and Xi'an Aircraft Company signed several contracts worth more than US$7.5 million to strengthen bilateral co-operation. The contracts covered the growing production rate of A320 access doors, A330/A340 brake blades and passenger door skin for A320 family.

In July, the Jinling Shipyard launched a roll-on and roll-off vessel for the transportation of A380 components.

 

[unregistered]

 

[IndulgeYourself]

[good grief, "Welcome to Air China, will that be 2 for Taiwan-CheapSeats Class or...."]


Airbus flies high in China
( 2004-01-17 09:31) (China Daily)

You'll have to pardon the date. [fucking editors]
This news was released a few days ago. Apparently China is so much cheaper they can also discount 2 years off the calendars.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I didn't address them because I didn't think they really merited a response.

BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!! You don't think, numbnuts. That's your problem.

But I will say this. America is the worlds largest consumer, and the largest buyer of Chinese goods and services. China has a 2.2 trillion economy, do you really think they are going to advance policies that would undermine their own economic well being?

Why not? They can just trade with everyone else. Hell, why trade at all? They can produce everything they need right there. They have a saying, you know... they intend to sell us capitalists enough rope to hang ourselves.

With all our intellectual property and debt in their hands, they can jerk us around however they please. Power trumps wealth at a certain level.

Foolish boy. A wise family does not let itself get up over its head in debt.

America is a nation of managers of a paper empire. Paper is quite vulnerable to fire. Again, as usual, you can't refute that.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

So, LT, if China's economy is growing at the expense of the U.S., how much did our economy shrink in the last year?

The growth of our economy is not relevant to the well being of job holders and seekers.

Jobless recovery, anyone?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Question for LT or whoever re. the quality of American gov. debt.

The government lowers taxes in order to stimulate the ecomomy and increase overall revenue.
Congress however subverts the process by increasing spending and increasing overall debt.
Presently gov. debt is being issued at about 4.5%. However real growth in GDP - inflation is much less than 4.5%.

So how could anyone believe this debt can be paid given the difference between real growth and offered rate of return/compounded?

Icing - At some point lowering taxes will not generate more revenue but the opposite, raising taxes, would slow the economy.

Agree with LV there are serious problems here but I dont think the Chinese even have to make a move. Unless you are hoarding currency reserves there is little reason (aside from basic security) to go for this option.

It can't be paid. The US is headed straight for default on that debt.

We now turn to Ham Murabi and Vetteman... as soon as they get their heads out of the sand, that is...

 

[Le Jacquelope]

It grew 4 percent? On a $12 trillion economy. That's fairly astounding. As a matter of fact, that 4 percent growth on a $12 trillion economy might be a hell of a lot more impressive than 10 percent growth on a puny $2.2 trillion economy.
Look at this another way. Our economy is five times the size of China's, yet our population is about one-third that of China's. I wonder who has the higher standard of living?
This month the U.S. has lost 15 miners in accidents. That's tragic. 15 dead miners amounts to a slow week in China.

That growth doesn't translate to jobs. Most of it is debt.

If people spent within their means, we wouldn't have any growth whatsoever. As it stands, eventually that consumer debt still has to be called in or paid off. That growth won't go on forever.

Unfortunately you're incapable of seeing past the nose on your face. You're probably one of those people who says "What? I can't be out of money! I still have some checks left!"