Terrorism, assassination or self defence?

[p_p_man]

From the London Times, Friday 25th January.

Witness in Sharon case killed by bomb

FROM NICHOLAS BLANFORD IN BEIRUT AND MARTIN FLETHER IN BRUSSELS

A FORMER Lebanese Christian warlord who was a potential key witness in a war crimes trial against Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Prime Minister, was killed yesterday in a massive car bomb blast outside his home in Beirut.

Elie Hobeika, who commanded Lebanese Forces militiamen during the massacre of hundreds of Palestinian refugees in Beirut in 1982, died instantly with three bodyguards when a parked Mercedes packed with an estimated ten kilograms of explosive blew up beside his vehicle as he was leaving his home in the Christian suburb of Hazmieh.

Now I wonder who could have carried out this terrorist attack?

Or will it be called an assassination or even an act of self defence?

I know what I think...

ppman

 

[sch00lteacher]

Act of self defence

First, sorry, I didn't know these posts were back here with zero responses to them. You know how I feel about that. I hate it when a regular is ignored. You should have at least one reply.

I get a kick out of each neat little trick that Israel pulls off. I just wish that they had been able to do this 70 some odd years ago.

Don't fuck with Israel is the message. They keep sending it, maybe someday someone will listen.

 

[SINthysist]

You know Hamas hates Christians as much as it hates Jews...

 

[SINthysist]

p_p_ just likes seeing

Christian and war-lord in the same sentence.

 

[lavender]

Re: Act of self defence

 

[sch00lteacher]

Re: Re: Act of self defence

You get a kick out of the murder, death, destruction, and what I tend to believe is a mini-genocide of a group of people? Wow! That's rather disturbing.

What are your feelings about what the USA is doing to Afghanistan? What do you think we are doing there? Didn't 09/11/01 disturb you?

Yes, I get a kick out of murder, death, and destruction when the cause is just. I wish the Jewish people had acted like this in the 1930s when they were the ones being murdered.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of 'kick'. I don't get a hard-on and start drooling at the mouth. But I am pleased that Israel resonds to terroistic acts. I am glad that they don't sit back and let people kill innocent children.

Sorry if I disturb you. You must really feel bad when you watch the news.

 

[SINthysist]

Lavy,

Do you admire the strength of the first female suicide bomber?

 

[crystalhunting]

Re: Re: Re: Act of self defence

What are your feelings about what the USA is doing to Afghanistan? What do you think we are doing there? Didn't 09/11/01 disturb you?

Yes, I get a kick out of murder, death, and destruction when the cause is just. I wish the Jewish people had acted like this in the 1930s when they were the ones being murdered.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of 'kick'. I don't get a hard-on and start drooling at the mouth. But I am pleased that Israel resonds to terroistic acts. I am glad that they don't sit back and let people kill innocent children.

Do you also get a kick when Isreali soldiers shoot Palestinian kids for throwing rocks at em?

Trouble is...they kill plenty of Muslim children all the time,are those children not legitamate enough for you?...

perhaps you should consider your thoughts again.

Shame.

CH

 

[sch00lteacher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Act of self defence

Do you also get a kick when Isreali soldiers shoot Palestinian kids for throwing rocks at em?

Trouble is...they kill plenty of Muslim children all the time,are those children not legitamate enough for you?...

perhaps you should consider your thoughts again.

Shame.

CH

War is war. Shit happens. Too fucking bad. Yes they are fighting a war.

Palestinians know that Israelies have weapons, that shoot real bullets, and that they, the Israelies use them quite often.

If your stupid enough to throw a rock at a guy with a weapon, knowing the history of said action (they shoot at you). Then your a moron.

Sorry, but you can't PC this stuff. I am not going to reconsider my thoughts. Sorry I am not a bleeding heart liberal. Would I shoot a child that threatened me, in a war zone? In a heartbeat. I'm not talking about rock throwing. I'd have a hard time shooting a kid throwing rocks (but I can understand the state of mind of someone who would, rocks can and do kill). If he had a grenade, a gun... if I even had the thought that he was hiding such item as he approached me. Dead.

Everyone seems to forget that there are two sides to this. The PLO are not pacifists. They purposely target Israeli children with their suicide bombers.

I wish I could think of a better way to express 'kick'. Maybe a feeling of righteousness? Whatever. It doesn't bother me that you don't feel the way I do. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain myself, or try to convert anyone.

 

[SINthysist]

You Palistinian Lovers should realize that the next logical step is to send kids in as suicide bombers. We've seen the tapes of fathers training sons to be just like them.

Now one has to wonder, "Is this how the Isreali's are raising thier children?"

 

[p_p_man]

The trouble with Sharon...

is that his 'hit 'em back and hit 'em back hard' policy doesn't work. Each time Israel enters Palestinian territory and shells a police station, or kills local people, whether they have anything to do with Arafat's organisation or not, a suicide bomber appears in Jerusalem and the whole cycle keeps going round and around.

It gives Sharon good, solid, propaganda enabling him to tell the world that Israel is acting in self defence. And the world (the US in particular) gives him the moral and practical support he needs to continue. Because we remember the difficult time Israel went through just after its recognition by the United Nations as a State.

But what Israel went through is history and should be consigned to the waste bin. As should the murder of British conscripts by Zionists hanging them with wire around their necks from telegraph poles. And the bombing of the King David Hotel killing 92 in July 1946, again by Zionists.

What cannot be forgotten are crimes so horrendous, and the perpetrators of those crimes, who are still living within a time slot of retribution. If it's possible to bring them to justice, then to justice they should be brought.

It becomes almost mandatory that they be brought to trial for their actions. Sharon is such a man.

Peres is one senior Israeli who is at least making the headlines with his moderate and practical solutions to the situation. But Sharon won't listen. It goes against everything he believes in.

Sharon is a mass murderer. The "Beast of Beirut" who ordered the massacre of the Palestinians in Beirut should be brought to trial for war crimes.

But there's little chance of that happening if key witnesses are assassinated with such comparative ease.

And he enjoys the, sometimes tacit, support of America.

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

Everyone

Should just stand back and let them have it out. That's how you get true peace, when once side wins, really wins, and then the other side has to come to terms that they have to live with.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Act of self defence

War is war. Shit happens. Too fucking bad. Yes they are fighting a war.[edited]

Would I shoot a child that threatened me, in a war zone? In a heartbeat.[edited]

So Israel declared war on Palestine? News to me.

But I suppose if Bush can do it Sharon can only say he's following his master's voice!

And I suppose the deliberate gunning down of a 12 year old kid caught in cross fire with his dad would be considered heroic. The Israeli's excuse?

They didn't see him

I don't know why. The rest of the world did.

Bollocks, Israel. Fucking Bollocks!

ppman

 

[sch00lteacher]

PP my man they declared war a few thousand years ago. Come one man. You know better than this.

Your being British you would know a lot more about the recent history of the area than the average American. I am not sure we even teach what happened there after WWII to our kids. What they did was wrong, I will agree with that. A terrorist is a terrorist.

What is the name of the book by Uris? I can't think of it right now.

"And I suppose the deliberate gunning down of a 12 year old kid caught in cross fire with his dad would be considered heroic. The Israeli's excuse?

They didn't see him ."

They (Israeli soldiers) were not across the street from him like the camera man was. I can believe that their view was blocked by the father, and the wall he was using for cover. His child should not have been there. The Israelies did not bring him, the father did. Dad made a mistake, and it cost him his son. I feel sorry for him for his loss. But I understand what happened and I do not blame Israel.

"is that his 'hit 'em back and hit 'em back hard' policy doesn't work. Each time Israel enters Palestinian territory and shells a police station, or kills local people, whether they have anything to do with Arafat's organisation or not, a suicide
bomber appears in Jerusalem and the whole cycle keeps going round and around. "

Yes, the policy does work. It makes some nations think twice. When was the last time someone hijacked an Israeli aircraft? When was the last time a nation sent their tanks into Israeli terrritories?

If Israel did not respond the way it does they would have a lot more to worry about than suicide bombers. There wouldn't be an Israel.

Who was it who said "never argue politics with P_P_?

They were right. But it sure is fun to argue with someone who knows something.

Take care, talk more with you later.

 

[p_p_man]

Originally posted by sch00lteacher
What is the name of the book by Uris? I can't think of it right now.

He wrote many.

BATTLE CRY
THE ANGRY HILLS
EXODUS
MILA 18
ARMAGEDDON
TOPAZ
QB VII
TRINITY
THE HAJ
MITLA PASS
REDEMPTION
A GOD IN RUINS

but you're probably thinking of 'Exodus' about the birth of the present Israeli State. A great book. But then he's a great writer.

"And I suppose the deliberate gunning down of a 12 year old kid caught in cross fire with his dad would be considered heroic. The Israeli's excuse?

They didn't see him ."

They (Israeli soldiers) were not across the street from him like the camera man was. I can believe that their view was blocked by the father, and the wall he was using for cover. His child should not have been there. The Israelies did not bring him, the father did. Dad made a mistake, and it cost him his son. I feel sorry for him for his loss. But I understand what happened and I do not blame Israel.

You must have seen the TV coverage as well as everyone else. It was played over and over again on prime time TV. The father, crouching beside a large bin, his arm trying to protect his son while he shouted to the soldiers to stop firing. The little boy, mouth gaping wide open in sheer terror, crouching as low as he could beside his dad. And all the time the bullets hitting the wall against which they were crouching...

And to say he should not have been there just leaves me speechless. What do you think his father did? Take him out to see the sights? They were the only civilians in the vicinity. The Israelis knew they were there all right. And when the boy urged by his father to make a run for it managed to get a few short yards before the bullets, which we all saw, hit the wall in a tracking motion until they reached the 12 year old lad and ripped him to pieces.

"is that his 'hit 'em back and hit 'em back hard' policy doesn't work. Each time Israel enters Palestinian territory and shells a police station, or kills local people, whether they have anything to do with Arafat's organisation or not, a suicide
bomber appears in Jerusalem and the whole cycle keeps going round and around. "

Yes, the policy does work. It makes some nations think twice. When was the last time someone hijacked an Israeli aircraft? When was the last time a nation sent their tanks into Israeli terrritories?

If Israel did not respond the way it does they would have a lot more to worry about than suicide bombers. There wouldn't be an Israel.

I don't believe I'm reading this. So by killing rock throwing children, and I've never seen the young of Palestine armed with anything else other than rocks, the Israelis are, in fact, saying to the world, 'see what we'll do if you dare hijack our planes or invade our territory'.

Even you can't believe that!

Just in case we've all forgotten why I started this thread I'm pasting a small item from the UK's Guardian Newspaper of 26 January...

Saturday January 26, 2002
The Guardian

Lawyers seeking to prosecute the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, for war crimes said yesterday that their case was still strong, despite the assassination of a key witness.
The Lebanese warlord Elie Hobeika was blown up at his Beirut home on Thursday, two days after saying he would give evidence against Mr Sharon.

Palestinian survivors of the 1982 massacre at Sabra and Chatila in Lebanon are trying to prosecute Mr Sharon for crimes against humanity in the Belgian courts, which have the authority to try foreigners for human rights violations committed elsewhere.

Mr Sharon was the Israeli defence minister when Hobeika's militia killed 1,000 Palestinians in a 40-hour rampage during which the Israeli forces sealed off escape routes.

Mr Sharon resigned when an Israeli inquiry found that he bore "personal responsibility".

Several Lebanese leaders have said they suspect Israel was behind Hobeika's assassination: an accusation Israel rejected "with disgust".

ppman