Tell me about 1969?

[Vermilion]

OK... Have had sudden inspiration for a short story that is demanding to be written, but I need some details about 1969 (Britain *and* the States).

So...

-Was there any way to tell the sex of a baby before it was born? ie- were ultrsounds in use then?

-What kind of reasons would there be for a young American man (probably Texan, if that makes a difference) to be travelling/working in the UK and Europe then? Between 18 and 25 in age... Would something like the Grand Tour be a possibility???

-How common were TVs in the UK at this point? Black and white, presumably, especially if it's a low income family, but how likely would it be for someone to have one?

That's everything for the time being, but I'll come back if I need more info... thank you

x
V

 

[rgraham666]

I can answer the question about sexing the baby.

Yes, they could. A little amniotic fluid would be drawn from the womb and they could check for XX or XY chromosomes.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Led Zeppelin II, In the Court of the Crimson King, Abbey Road, and Tommy

 

[cloudy]

I can answer the question about sexing the baby.

Yes, they could. A little amniotic fluid would be drawn from the womb and they could check for XX or XY chromosomes.

They only do that, though, if there's some particular reason to - even now.

Ultrasounds weren't in general use. When I had my oldest daughter, in 1980, there still was no routine checking of a baby's sex.

 

[oggbashan]

OK... Have had sudden inspiration for a short story that is demanding to be written, but I need some details about 1969 (Britain *and* the States)...

-What kind of reasons would there be for a young American man (probably Texan, if that makes a difference) to be travelling/working in the UK and Europe then? Between 18 and 25 in age... Would something like the Grand Tour be a possibility???

-How common were TVs in the UK at this point? Black and white, presumably, especially if it's a low income family, but how likely would it be for someone to have one?

That's everything for the time being, but I'll come back if I need more info... thank you

x
V

Could be travelling as a representative of a US company seeking European outlets; or doing post-graduate studies in English Literature; or research on the UK version of the American Revolution; or just travelling. The dollar/pound rate was more reasonable for US tourists then.

TVs? Yes. Most UK families would have a TV in 1969. The growth of TVs in UK homes surged in 1953 with the broadcast of The Coronation. From then onwards the price of TVs dropped. In real terms the cost of a TV in 1969 was a fraction of the cost in 1953.

Og

 

[Caitano]

The procedure Rob refers to is called amniocentesis, accent on the E of -esis. It's surgical, a hollow needle passed through the wall of abdomen and womb to draw off a fluid sample. And it was not performed, in general, merely to know the sex of the child, but to assess genetic defects if they were suspected, stuff like that. There'd have to have been some reason to do that, in other words, but some of the reasons were not dire, and a lot of people had the procedure performed in the course of their pregnancies. Pregnancy itself was approached in a much more medical way, then. You'd have thought it was mostly a clinical event.

Grand Tour-- your American would have had to belong in the upper few layers of American society to have a Grand Tour idea in the family culture, and even then the family would have been, likely, old money aristocracy. Alternatively your American could come from a recently immigrant household.

In that era, lots of people of college age spent a school semester or year abroad. Such programs were popular especially if it looked like a good way not to spend a year abroad in a southeast Asian jungle.

People that age might also be on a work-study tour. Go to Rotterdam, for instance, live with a host family but work for only a few guilders a week. Total immersion would teach the person the language. I'm afraid I can't recall any of the organizations that arranged these things, but it could be done ad hoc. Labor is still really cheap if you have to give them a room and feed them supper, so long as you work 'em long.

By 1969, the counterculture was well launched. Young people went on the road, here at home, a lot. Have you seen Easy Rider? The mythology was that all youth were connected to all youth. People under 30 could pack a duffle and count on being fed and given dope, sex, and a place to crash wherever they went. You could bum rides or hitchhike and travel anywhere. Probably would have worked in Europe, too, but you'd have to cross the ocean somehow, first.

 

[Vermilion]

The procedure Rob refers to is called amniocentesis, accent on the E of -esis. It's surgical, a hollow needle passed through the wall of abdomen and womb to draw off a fluid sample. And it was not performed, in general, merely to know the sex of the child, but to assess genetic defects if they were suspected, stuff like that. There'd have to have been some reason to do that, in other words, but some of the reasons were not dire, and a lot of people had the procedure performed in the course of their pregnancies. Pregnancy itself was approached in a much more medical way, then. You'd have thought it was mostly a clinical event.

Grand Tour-- your American would have had to belong in the upper few layers of American society to have a Grand Tour idea in the family culture, and even then the family would have been, likely, old money aristocracy. Alternatively your American could come from a recently immigrant household.

In that era, lots of people of college age spent a school semester or year abroad. Such programs were popular especially if it looked like a good way not to spend a year abroad in a southeast Asian jungle.

People that age might also be on a work-study tour. Go to Rotterdam, for instance, live with a host family but work for only a few guilders a week. Total immersion would teach the person the language. I'm afraid I can't recall any of the organizations that arranged these things, but it could be done ad hoc. Labor is still really cheap if you have to give them a room and feed them supper, so long as you work 'em long.

By 1969, the counterculture was well launched. Young people went on the road, here at home, a lot. Have you seen Easy Rider? The mythology was that all youth were connected to all youth. People under 30 could pack a duffle and count on being fed and given dope, sex, and a place to crash wherever they went. You could bum rides or hitchhike and travel anywhere. Probably would have worked in Europe, too, but you'd have to cross the ocean somehow, first.

I'm aware of amnios, cos my mum had to have one, but yes, it is unlikely that it'd be done in the pregnancy I'm writing about, guess I'll have to tweak some details

As to the American traveller - either a very very rich young man or a hippy traveller would work...
I need to think about the implications of which one I choose
Thanks all!
xx
V

 

[Caitano]

My pleasure.

 

[R. Richard]

Somehow, you gotta' work this in. The year 1969 saw the first manned moon landing on Earth's Moon by the United States' Apollo 11. Neil Armstrong landed the lunar module Eagle on the surface of the Moon at 4:17:42 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, July 20, 1969. The first words spoken on the moon were, "Slippery here." The crew spent a day on the surface of the Moon and then returned to Earth.

 

[champagne1982]

Somehow, you gotta' work this in. The year 1969 saw the first manned moon landing on Earth's Moon by the United States' Apollo 11. Neil Armstrong landed the lunar module Eagle on the surface of the Moon at 4:17:42 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, July 20, 1969. The first words spoken on the moon were, "Slippery here." The crew spent a day on the surface of the Moon and then returned to Earth.

what happened to the favourite propaganda of, "One small step for man... One giant leap for mankind..."? Any video I've seen of the event seems to have him uttering at least "mankind" with his foot resting (or sliding) on moon dust.

 

[R. Richard]

what happened to the favourite propaganda of, "One small step for man... One giant leap for mankind..."? Any video I've seen of the event seems to have him uttering at least "mankind" with his foot resting (or sliding) on moon dust.

I worked with a guy who was on the project that did the doppler radar for the lunar lander. He has the official TV feed. The first guy out of the lunar lander gets to the bootom of the ladder, finds the going a bit slippery and mutters, "Slippery here." Only then does he utter the propaganda.

 

[Vermilion]

Moon stuff might get a very brief passing mention, but it's not that relevant to the characters in question...

And I live with a rocket scientist, so don't worry - I'll get the details right

 

[john-the-author]

Byron is quite right about the music. Gawd, that does take me back. If it was late in the year, the Abbey Road album was released in the fall. (Wikipedia says Sept 26 in the UK and Oct 1 in the US.) It was huge: I remember that the AM stations were playing it constantly. "Come Together" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" were both getting hours of airplay a day.

I'm surprised that no-one mentioned one of the other reasons to be travelling in Europe at that time: it was a fair way to be out of the US and avoiding the draft for a while. It wasn't a permanent solution unless you were willing to drop out entirely (which is why people would move to Canada) but if you were in college and "getting an education" in Europe, there was a considerable amount of latitude for delaying your entry into the military.

This was also the time of the classic "Europe on $5 a Day."

 

[Vermilion]

Byron is quite right about the music. Gawd, that does take me back. If it was late in the year, the Abbey Road album was released in the fall. (Wikipedia says Sept 26 in the UK and Oct 1 in the US.) It was huge: I remember that the AM stations were playing it constantly. "Come Together" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" were both getting hours of airplay a day.

I'm surprised that no-one mentioned one of the other reasons to be travelling in Europe at that time: it was a fair way to be out of the US and avoiding the draft for a while. It wasn't a permanent solution unless you were willing to drop out entirely (which is why people would move to Canada) but if you were in college and "getting an education" in Europe, there was a considerable amount of latitude for delaying your entry into the military.

This was also the time of the classic "Europe on $5 a Day."

Please tell em I'm right and that this was also the year Stevie Wonder's 'Ma Cherie Amour' was released...?

But avoiding the draft is a great reason... Fits in well... I think it was mentioned above but I didn;t pick up on it properly then.
Thanks
x
V

 

[sr71plt]

Whether or not the sex of a baby could be determined in 1969, this was rarely done "back then"--and probably only done for medical necessity.

TV's in the UK then--ten years later, I found there might be one TV in a house, but it would be a small black and white--and, as I recall, coin operated to keep the power going.

It's hard pressing to think of any young Texan going to the UK in 1969, the state seemed so insularly Texan then and I don't think the Texas colleges were known for their cultural programs then. Other parts of the South, yes--there were strong cultural ties between some of the southern states, particularly Virginia, and the UK then. There's always oil, though. British and American oil interests coincided to a great extent then in the North African oil fields. A promising young Texan could have been sent from Texas then to London in connection with Conoco, Standard Oil, or Sinclair interests, for instances. But if I heard the combination of 1969, a young male Texan, and "the grand tour" put together in one sentence, I think I'd give at least a snort.

 

[Vermilion]

Whether or not the sex of a baby could be determined in 1969, this was rarely done "back then"--and probably only done for medical necessity.

TV's in the UK then--ten years later, I found there might be one TV in a house, but it would be a small black and white--and, as I recall, coin operated to keep the power going.

It's hard pressing to think of any young Texan going to the UK in 1969, the state seemed so insularly Texan then and I don't think the Texas colleges were known for their cultural programs then. Other parts of the South, yes--there were strong cultural ties between some of the southern states, particularly Virginia, and the UK then. There's always oil, though. British and American oil interests coincided to a great extent then in the North African oil fields. A promising young Texan could have been sent from Texas then to London in connection with Conoco, Standard Oil, or Sinclair interests, for instances. But if I heard the combination of 1969, a young male Texan, and "the grand tour" put together in one sentence, I think I'd give at least a snort.

Thanks - I'll bear that in mind
x
V

 

[3113]

The answers to your questions really depend a lot on your characters. Why 1969? Are your characters old fashioned conservatives, or part of the counter culture movement? What about that year is grabbing your attention as compared to any other year in the 60's or any other decade?

The Baby: There would really be no reason for anyone to know the sex of the baby as already well mentioned. It just wasn't done in those days like it is now, and in the early days when it started being done, people often debated about it ("Do I want to now the sex of my baby?"). So it's really, really, really doubtful that any medical procedure would be done to determine the sex, or that if the sex was determined, that the doctor would actually tell the mother. MORE, 1969 was the height of counter culture and what that meant is that if your preggers female was a hippy, well then she's deeply into natural childbirth (a big new thing then), and not seeing a doctor at all.

There were a lot of young Americans going to the U.K. and hoofing it about Europe in 1969. Abby Road was release in Sept. 1969 in Britain, and October 1969 in the U.S. To quote:

Abbey Road became one of the most successful Beatles albums ever. In the UK the album debuted straight at #1, knocking-off the top spot the Rolling Stones compilation Through the Past Darkly which debuted the previous week at #4 and never managed to reach #1, knocked two consecutive weeks by the Beatles. Abbey Road spent its first 11 weeks in the UK charts at #1, and then was knocked-off just for 1 week to #2 actually by the Rolling Stones debuting at the top with Let it Bleed. However, the following week – which was the Christmas week – Abbey Road returned to the top for another 6 weeks, completing 17 weeks at the top. In all it spent 92 weeks inside the UK Top 75, making a big re-entry after over 16 years in October 31, 1987, when it was released for the first time on CD and reached #30. In the UK Abbey Road was the best-selling album of 1969 – amazingly with only two months in the market – even more impressively the fourth best-selling of the entire 1960s, and the eighth best-selling album of 1970.

A Beatles fan from any state in the Union might well have saved up his money and finally made the pilgrimage to Apple Records. Especially if he was a musician.

EDITED TO ADD: What Beatles tunes are dominating the airwaves depends on the time of year: the Beatles famous White Album was released in November of 1968, and songs from that album would be playing through the winter and spring months of 1969.

By 1969 even the low income often had televisions (color ones at that!), though not the very low. A television was one of those things a family would put at the top of their list to get if they could get it.

As you probably already know, there was a lot of drug use among the counter culture crowd...and that all of it was jail-time illegal including marijuana.

 

[CharleyH]

OK... Have had sudden inspiration for a short story that is demanding to be written, but I need some details about 1969 (Britain *and* the States).

So...

-Was there any way to tell the sex of a baby before it was born? ie- were ultrsounds in use then?

-What kind of reasons would there be for a young American man (probably Texan, if that makes a difference) to be travelling/working in the UK and Europe then? Between 18 and 25 in age... Would something like the Grand Tour be a possibility???

-How common were TVs in the UK at this point? Black and white, presumably, especially if it's a low income family, but how likely would it be for someone to have one?

That's everything for the time being, but I'll come back if I need more info... thank you

x
V

#1: I think people have answered so I won't add.

#2: If the Texan had a dual Canadian Citizenship? He'd have probably been able to go there just to tour Europe and work as a waiter or maybe even go to Uni for a minimal if any fee at that time.

#3 Don't know the answer.

Much luck on your story, V.

 

[Vermilion]

1969 was chosen because I figured out the age I wanted my primary character to be, then counted backwards to what year she would have been born so I could do some flashbacks for her backstory.

Nothing more interesting I'm afraid

x
V

 

[Weird Harold]

But avoiding the draft is a great reason... Fits in well... I think it was mentioned above but I didn;t pick up on it properly then.

Nope, that was the first mention of draft-dodging -- I ws looking for it to avoid duplication.

However, nobody has mentioned the other side of that equation: there were a LOT of US servicemen in your preferred age group stationed in England or visiting England on leave from other European assignments -- Especially USAF personnel at the big bases at Lakenheath and Mildenhall.


One suggestion about realism, -- especialy if you do use a GI "on leave:" The worst language barrier I encountered in 21 years of military service was in East Anglia at RAF Bentwaters near Ipswitch -- and I was by no means unique in that regard.

For example:

"I need to go to town early tomorrow. Knock me up in the morning around five?" said the pregnant English Lass.

"I don't think that's possible; you're already knocked up," replied the naive GI.

I was stationed in England half a decade too late to be more help, but in 1969 virtually any american male anywhere in Europe was either avoiding the draft, was in the military, or (at the older end of your range) a veteran who had served his two years draft or three/four years of voluntary enlistment.

If you need some drama, Post-Traumatic Stress was just beginning to be a concern among Vietnam Veterans in the late sixties an seldom recognised in time to ameliorate some of the worst flashbacks and nightmares.

 

[CharleyH]

However, nobody has mentioned the other side of that equation: there were a LOT of US servicemen in your preferred age group stationed in England or visiting England on leave from other European assignments -- Especially USAF personnel at the big bases at Lakenheath and Mildenhall.


One suggestion about realism, -- especialy if you do use a GI "on leave:" The worst language barrier I encountered in 21 years of military service was in East Anglia at RAF Bentwaters near Ipswitch -- and I was by no means unique in that regard.

For example:

"I need to go to town early tomorrow. Knock me up in the morning around five?" said the pregnant English Lass.

"I don't think that's possible; you're already knocked up," replied the naive GI.

I was stationed in England half a decade too late to be more help, but in 1969 virtually any american male anywhere in Europe was either avoiding the draft, was in the military, or (at the older end of your range) a veteran who had served his two years draft or three/four years of voluntary enlistment.

If you need some drama, Post-Traumatic Stress was just beginning to be a concern among Vietnam Veterans in the late sixties an seldom recognised in time to ameliorate some of the worst flashbacks and nightmares.

Intriguing. I should have recalled the Vietnam war, but was a mere baby at the time and its why I didn't. Interesting info, WeirdH.

 

[3113]

Weird Harold hit the nail there. No avoiding Vietnam. I remember listening to a wonderful history teacher who taught about the 60's from his arrest record during that time (he got arrested during the early free speech movement at Berkley for saying bad words--seriously! We forget how it was then).

One of the important things he said at the beginning of his lecture was: "What you have to remember is that no one in the U.S. was neutral about the war, because everyone was somehow involved. If you weren't drafted or dodging the draft, you knew someone who was or knew someone who'd been there and come back, or gone and been killed. It was impossible to remain outside of the argument because it affected everyone, directly or indirectly, your brothers, boyfriends, buddies and neighbors. Every healthy male of draftable age had to make that gut-wrenching decision of whether or not they were going to go, and consider the consequences if they did or didn't."

 

[Caitano]

Nope, that was the first mention of draft-dodging -- I ws looking for it to avoid duplication.

I believe I did mention southeast Asian jungles, though.

 

[kendo1]

I was there.
I can't remember.

 

[oggbashan]

I was there.
I can't remember.

I was in Swinging London - swinging. I can remember *some* of it. For some of it the now law-abiding Og has a convenient patch of amnesia. The abiding memory is how many free or cheap music events were available. The coffee bar culture was still around. I helped wash up in some famous places in exchange for free admission and/or free coffee.

I wasn't into the trendy dressing phase. I was the wrong size and build so I used to go out on the town in the West End in either my office suit with bowler hat and OHMS briefcase (which I usually left in the trunk of my car or at whoever's flat I was using that night) or my evening suit with stiff shirt and bow tie. I had a folding top hat and opera cloak but didn't usually wear them because even then that was a bit too much...

One of my girl friends (a friend who was a girl, not a girlfriend) in 1969 was a leggy blonde who shared a flat in Chelsea. She was six foot two inches tall and looked spectacular in a short tartan mini-kilt. We went shopping for the flat to Safeways in the Kings Road one evening. It was the first time I had been filmed by a TV crew walking backwards in front of me. I suppose it was the contrast between my official Civil Service image and her incredible length of slim leg. When we turned to go into Safeways I tipped my bowler hat to the TV crew and she did a brief curtsey. That made the TV crew laugh.

After a meal in her flat we went, in my ancient car, to an opera at Sadlers Wells and then on to Soho...

Og