Switching Question

poppy1963

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Do Dom/mes ever require a sub to take a Dom/me role over them?

KS's thread on "Dominant women" made me think of this. In many areas of life, most of us "switch" around...we are dominant over some/subordinate to others. Sometimes in a sexual/partnered relationship I like to be "in charge" and sometimes I like to be led by the other.

It would seem to me that those who come to the BDSM lifestyle have a distinct preference mostly and the expectation would be that you are either one or the other for the most part.

But suppose a Dom/me just wanted to be subordinate on occasion or vice versa in the sexual or emotional parts of the relationship. Is that something that happens or is that something that would be a bit taboo?
 
In my relationship, B. is the dominant one 95% of the time. On rare occasions, he needs me to dominate him (but only in a sexual context because he's only a "sexual" kind of submissive). I enjoy my time Topping him, but there's no question at the end of the day that he's the Dom, and I'm the sub. It works for us, but not for others.
 
I once upon a time knew a gentleman who said what today's kinky people call "switching", used to be called "being Lovers" (20-ish + years ago), so I don't think it's necessarily taboo... somewhat uncommon today, maybe, but not taboo.

:)
 
BiBunny said:
In my relationship, B. is the dominant one 95% of the time. On rare occasions, he needs me to dominate him (but only in a sexual context because he's only a "sexual" kind of submissive). I enjoy my time Topping him, but there's no question at the end of the day that he's the Dom, and I'm the sub. It works for us, but not for others.

Ok...so it does happen in the course of the relationship that a Dom/me may wish to be sub "sexually".

You used the word "topping" as well here...I've noticed that particular word used several times over the last couple days at Lit and I had not seen it previously...at least not enough to have it stand out for me....even when reading in the Library. Is this a relatively new description of taking temp charge? Topping someone? It almost sounds like a term of "competition".

Thanks BiBunny! I am always met with many helpful responses when I have a BDSM question and come for a consultation. I will research the term "topping" but I always like to hear from others what it means to them or in their relationship...People do vary how things are defined within the context of their individualizations as couples.

It's all very individualized I'm learning!
 
Topping is another word for Dominating, but some people make a disctinction between Topping and Domming. Think of Topping as temporarily taking on the characteristics of a Dominant for a set amount of time, for either both partie's pleasure, or the pleasure of the person Bottoming (submitting) but not necessarily being Dominant in the relationship. Bottoming is sort of the same thing, but from a submissive aspect.
 
CutieMouse said:
I once upon a time knew a gentleman who said what today's kinky people call "switching", used to be called "being Lovers" (20-ish + years ago), so I don't think it's necessarily taboo... somewhat uncommon today, maybe, but not taboo.

:)

That is what I am seeing and learning. Before coming to Lit and asking the questions I have...rather than relying just on "readings"...I had the impression that the "rules" were stricter than they seem to be for many in this lifestyle. It sounds very prescribed but oftentimes sounds very fluid when I talk with those who practice BDSM...

Thanks, CutieMouse!
 
CutieMouse said:
Topping is another word for Dominating, but some people make a disctinction between Topping and Domming. Think of Topping as temporarily taking on the characteristics of a Dominant for a set amount of time, for either both partie's pleasure, or the pleasure of the person Bottoming (submitting) but not necessarily being Dominant in the relationship. Bottoming is sort of the same thing, but from a submissive aspect.

The more I learn from the actual people in BDSM, the more I come to see that in many ways, it's kind of just linguistic....a way for people to define things in terms of dominant/subissive terminology for whatever their reason is. The roles seem to vary from very strictly prescribed for some to very loosely prescribed for others and with varying degrees of relational dynamics from the DaddyDom type of thing too the most S/M type.

Please bear with and forgive my ignorance of the terminology sometimes...and please feel free to correct my usage of it as you see fit.
 
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CutieMouse said:
Topping is another word for Dominating, but some people make a disctinction between Topping and Domming. Think of Topping as temporarily taking on the characteristics of a Dominant for a set amount of time, for either both partie's pleasure, or the pleasure of the person Bottoming (submitting) but not necessarily being Dominant in the relationship. Bottoming is sort of the same thing, but from a submissive aspect.

Yep, and that's pretty much the context in which I used it, too, CM. Thanks for explaining for me. :)

Poppy, I know you don't post here often, so you don't know this, but both B. (my Master) and I are switches. I use the label "switch" because it's the easiest way to describe it, but it's more complicated than that. He is mostly dominant and sometimes a "bedroom" type submissive. He'll tell anybody in a heartbeat that he could never be an owned sub or slave. He mostly just enjoys pain and humiliation, but only when he's in the mood for it. I, on the other hand, am pretty much his total opposite. I'm mostly submissive and a masochist, but I can be quite sadistic when I'm in the mood, so I like to play on top as well. If the right sub were to come along someday, I could probably see myself collaring a pet of my own, but it's not something that's high up there on my "To Do" list.

Sometimes B. and I look to each other to satisfy his submissive needs and my dominant ones, and sometimes we look to others. I always feel very special when he asks me to Top him. Like I said, though, in the end, it always reverts back to the two of us being in our more "comfortable" roles--he as Dom, and I as sub.

I will say that I don't think it's really common with switches, though.
 
Fixed orientations along the power exchange (or SM) axis work for some people, a flexible orientation works for others. Just as some people are strictly hetero-, or strictly homo-, and some are happily bi-sexual.

In my own situation, for example:
Sexually, I'm very strictly straight. I have no desire at all to experience sex with a male partner.

Sadistically though, I'm pretty much bi because I'm not terribly particular about the gender of the person I inflict pain on. I like tears and whimpers from males and females.

When it comes to power exchange, I'm pretty much the Dominant one all the time, but I will, occassionally bottom for a scene. When I bottom, it's for a purpose, either as part of my ongoing education in the lifestyle, or as a fund-raising effort (you would be surprised at how much money people will pony up to spank me or stick needles in me etc!) for a charitable cause...

But I have never bottomed in my relationship however. It would be terribly disconcerting to my slave as well as myself to alter the dynamic that exists between us. She is a switch, pretty dominant/Toppy with most folks but she's slave to me.

I used to expect more formal rigidity from others, but realized fairly early on that other people did not necessarily live their lives by my expectations! *LOL* Probably a good thing that is, too! Otherwise ALL of y'all would hankering to mow my yard and get your asses beat by me! :D
 
Evil_Geoff said:
Otherwise ALL of y'all would hankering to mow my yard and get your asses beat by me! :D

You mean there are people who DON'T want to mow your yard and have you beat their asses? :eek: *Faints from the horror*

On another note, the beginning of your post reminded me--if y'all think my relationship is complicated with the "Who's on top now?" thing, just wait'll I throw our sexual orientations in there as a factor, too. :D
 
BiBunny said:
Yep, and that's pretty much the context in which I used it, too, CM. Thanks for explaining for me. :)

Poppy, I know you don't post here often, so you don't know this, but both B. (my Master) and I are switches. I use the label "switch" because it's the easiest way to describe it, but it's more complicated than that. He is mostly dominant and sometimes a "bedroom" type submissive. He'll tell anybody in a heartbeat that he could never be an owned sub or slave. He mostly just enjoys pain and humiliation, but only when he's in the mood for it. I, on the other hand, am pretty much his total opposite. I'm mostly submissive and a masochist, but I can be quite sadistic when I'm in the mood, so I like to play on top as well. If the right sub were to come along someday, I could probably see myself collaring a pet of my own, but it's not something that's high up there on my "To Do" list.

Sometimes B. and I look to each other to satisfy his submissive needs and my dominant ones, and sometimes we look to others. I always feel very special when he asks me to Top him. Like I said, though, in the end, it always reverts back to the two of us being in our more "comfortable" roles--he as Dom, and I as sub.

I will say that I don't think it's really common with switches, though.

What you are saying here, BiBunny is a frequent theme in the answers to the questions I ask...things are very variable within the context of each relationship and are not as stringently defined as they may appear in the literature. That's why I come to ask...because I realize that what I've read is but the general guide and that each couple defines and designs what works for them. While it doesn't come as that much of a surprise really, what does come as a surprise is how like all relationships in any kind of lifestyle BDSM ones can be.
 
poppy1963 said:
What you are saying here, BiBunny is a frequent theme in the answers to the questions I ask...things are very variable within the context of each relationship and are not as stringently defined as they may appear in the literature. That's why I come to ask...because I realize that what I've read is but the general guide and that each couple defines and designs what works for them. While it doesn't come as that much of a surprise really, what does come as a surprise is how like all relationships in any kind of lifestyle BDSM ones can be.

Exactly. As a matter of fact, that's our stock answer around here to any kind of "How is _______ done?" question: "It depends on the people involved!" :D

And I'm a hater of strict rules and guidelines, so I always have to mix it up a bit myself. ;)
 
Evil_Geoff said:
Fixed orientations along the power exchange (or SM) axis work for some people, a flexible orientation works for others. Just as some people are strictly hetero-, or strictly homo-, and some are happily bi-sexual.

In my own situation, for example:
Sexually, I'm very strictly straight. I have no desire at all to experience sex with a male partner.

Sadistically though, I'm pretty much bi because I'm not terribly particular about the gender of the person I inflict pain on. I like tears and whimpers from males and females.

When it comes to power exchange, I'm pretty much the Dominant one all the time, but I will, occassionally bottom for a scene. When I bottom, it's for a purpose, either as part of my ongoing education in the lifestyle, or as a fund-raising effort (you would be surprised at how much money people will pony up to spank me or stick needles in me etc!) for a charitable cause...

But I have never bottomed in my relationship however. It would be terribly disconcerting to my slave as well as myself to alter the dynamic that exists between us. She is a switch, pretty dominant/Toppy with most folks but she's slave to me.

I used to expect more formal rigidity from others, but realized fairly early on that other people did not necessarily live their lives by my expectations! *LOL* Probably a good thing that is, too! Otherwise ALL of y'all would hankering to mow my yard and get your asses beat by me! :D

Yeah....:D....ok...there are the things like humiliation and pain that accompany the lifestyle more than in the general population.

It's true...I am surprised at the idea of "how much money people will pony up to spank me or stick needles in me etc! for a charitable cause... "
This would not have been a concept I would have thought of if you hadn't just educated me about it! :catroar:
 
I am "switch" and so is my former play partner, who was - well, less than a lover but much more than a "fuck buddy." Our relationship was always very fluid. Perhaps not coincidentally, the couple I may start playing with on a regular basis is very much the same (both bi and both switch).

I just went to a queer play party where it seemed as though at least half the folks there were taking turns at bottoming and Topping. On another thread about switching I mentioned the definitions a good friend and occasional play partner (Dom) uses for terms denoting dominance and submission: a bottom gives his/her body (temporarily), a sub gives her/his mind and a slave gives his/her soul. The opposite might be said of a Top, Dom/me, and Master/Mistress.

I know of one switch lesbian couple whose relationship is very much structured around D/s, and they actually exchange roles every month (they also trade off on who will be Dominant and sub for special events).

I don't know if this is typical, but this type of fluidity (I like your use of the term) seems to be fairly common in the circles in which I travel.

:rose: Neon
 
I'd also like to touch again on the difference between being a Top or bottom, and being a Dominant or a submissive. And believe me, there IS a difference.

The terms Top and bottom come from our friends in the gay community and refered to their sexual position, who was on top (the fucker), who was on bottom (the fuckee). While not necessarily regarding who is getting fucked and who is doing the fucking, the terms carry over to the BDSM scene with more or less the same connotations

Topping refers to the physical aspects of the play, the scene, the sex. The Top is the person performing most of the physical aspects of the play. In a flogging scene, the person swinging the floggers is the Top, in a bondage scene the Top is doing the one tieing the ropes... the bottom is the one receiving the action from the top.

It may appear that the Top is "in control" of the scene, but that is not necessarily the case. If the Top and bottom do not have a power exchange relationship, the bottom is often the one actually directing the scene. The bottom sets the parameters, how hard, how soft, how long, how intense the scene goes, etc. Toss in a D/s relationship and it gets even MORE confusing for the outside observer because you might have a masochistic Dominant and sadistic submissive... *chuckles*

Dominant and submissive refer more to the emotional side of the relationship. Who leads, who follows. It's about who makes the decisions and sets the policy... Dom/sub is about authority and responsibility, surrender and leadership...

And while it may be fun to read, please keep in mind that most of the "literature" regarding BDSM is pornographic hogwash, and has about as much relationship to real life and real people as your typical Harlequin romance or Hollywood action movie... It's wanking material, fuel to feed sexual fantasies and fetishes, it's not intended to teach people how to handle their daily lives and relationships. Even the best BDSM fiction out there (stuff like The Marketplace series by Laura Anoniou) is fiction.

Most of your "How-to" books (like Screw the Roses, The Topping Book, The Bottoming Book) are pretty grounded in the realities people face. Other books like slavecraft and Protocol Handbook for the Leather Slave: Theory and Practice and Different Loving delve more into the mindset, the emotional and spiritual aspects of the relationship dynamics.

It's all good, just remember that fantasy stuff is just that, fantasy. Great to read about, but not everyone wants to be O or Beauty, and no one really lives like that...

Hope I haven't muddied the waters for you tooooo much!
 
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EG writes: I'd also like to touch again on the difference between being a Top or bottom, and being a Dominant or a submissive. And believe me, there IS a difference.

The terms Top and bottom come from our friends in the gay community and refered to their sexual position, who was on top (the fucker), who was on bottom (the fuckee). While not necessarily regarding who is getting fucked and who is doing the fucking, the terms carry over to the BDSM scene with more or less the same connotations

Topping refers to the physical aspects of the play, the scene, the sex. The Top is the person performing most of the physical aspects of the play. In a flogging scene, the person swinging the floggers is the Top, in a bondage scene the Top is doing the one tieing the ropes... the bottom is the one receiving the action from the top.

It may appear that the Top is "in control" of the scene, but that is not necessarily the case. If the Top and bottom do not have a power exchange relationship, the bottom is often the one actually directing the scene. The bottom sets the parameters, how hard, how soft, how long, how intense the scene goes, etc. Toss in a D/s relationship and it gets even MORE confusing for the outside observer because you might have a masochistic Dominant and sadistic submissive... *chuckles* Ok...at one point that would have put me on "tilt" but now I see a bit better how that could be. A masochistic Dom would be directing the play/scene telling the sadistic sub what "actions" need performed. The sadism/masochism comes into it by virtue of the type of "satisfaction" the individuals get out of it. Correct? Like in your next sentence below here.

Dominant and submissive refer more to the emotional side of the relationship. Who leads, who follows. It's about who makes the decisions and sets the policy... Dom/sub is about authority and responsibility, surrender and leadership...

And while it may be fun to read, please keep in mind that most of the "literature" regarding BDSM is pornographic hogwash, and has about as much relationship to real life and real people as your typical Harlequin romance or Hollywood action movie... It's wanking material, fuel to feed sexual fantasies and fetishes, it's not intended to teach people how to handle their daily lives and relationships. Ok...I getcha...but a lot of people seem to BELIEVE that what we read in stories is how their "real life" should be...because "everybody elses' is"....how often I hear shit like that! :D Even the best BDSM fiction out there (stuff like The Marketplace series by Laura Anoniou) is fiction.

Most of your "How-to" books (like Screw the Roses, The Topping Book, The Bottoming Book) are pretty grounded in the realities people face. Other books like slavecraft and Protocol Handbook for the Leather Slave: Theory and Practice and Different Loving delve more into the mindset, the emotional and spiritual aspects of the relationship dynamics. Thanks for the references.

It's all good, just remember that fantasy stuff is just that, fantasy. Great to read about, but not everyone wants to be O or Beauty, and no one really lives like that...

Hope I haven't muddied the waters for you tooooo much! No...not at all. You, as well as all who have offered, teach me a great deal and I thank you once again. I DO enjoy your way, Geoff, as so often you take me by surprise with your frankness and I love the litte "oh my!" I get. :D
 
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