surrealism

[Senna Jawa]

Somehow several of you now, and more in the past, so easily agree among yourselves that supposedly I am impolite, rude, lacking social skills, ... Why, several of you tell me to "fuck off", call me names like "asshole", etc. All this happens to me en mass, plus many so-so sophisticated attacks or thinly disguised ones. There was even a confident conjecture that I am a sociopath (yes, we must have psychiatrists in residence). A time ago whenever a certain participant had to say something positive about my writings (poems or comments--I don't remember), s/he also felt compelled to assail my character, my personality, while others did it too in a less systematic way but still routinely--all of them were doing it without any provocation or even without the slightest pretext (most of them were not even complimenting me on anything ). It didn't matter that I was not even here on many of those occasions when I was badmouthed (it is easier then for the brave poets). This disgusting business was just an expression of the social mutual understanding and camaraderie of this forum. Even my advanced age was to you guys a good target, very convenient for more ugly epithets hurled at me. And again this kind of "argument" was supported by other so friendly and cultural forum paricipants, who witnessed the respective thread. Even my exchange about poems by one of the authors is given now, by that author, as one more proof that I was rude. But why is this author calling my contribution to our exchange rude now, with the claim that I am "the rudest on this forum", while there was no issue during our exchange?? (Oh, no, how could I confuse my rudeness for a friendly cooperation?!--my gush, how blind I am!).

So, you guys agree that you are all cultural, friendly, civilized, that you have social skills, etc. In short, that you are a refined bunch, intimate with the words like "decorum".

But I don't go around, using the most filthy language to call you names, to attach to you some labels-epithets, and I don't give a moral support to those who do it, and I do not gang up on people in a misguided notion of a social unity. (It takes a lot before I pay anybody with the same kind of coin--yes, I am not an infinitely patient saint, and after a prolonged abuse I may lash out too; and no, it does not make me happy).

So it is agreed upon on this forum that I am the rude one. And where is the evidence? Let's keep it simple and easily verifiable. The claim about my supposed rudeness was made anew recently due to my recent activity on this forum. So let's stick to this period of time. What are my crimes against the code of politeness? I called a poem "poor". I called a phrase in a poem "pathetic", I called an appearance of a word--"awful". And a bit earlier, a couple of months ago or so, I commented on a poem which was entered into a thread meant to discuss another poem by the same author. If that was a mistake (?? -- quite a subtle one --commenting on a wrong poem), fine, but was it impolite or rude? And, no, it was not any "going after the xyz" (after the unknown to me author). I was writing about the poem.

*****

Should we really avoid strong but adequate descriptions of certain elements of the poems? In my opinion it'd be counterproductive in every possible way. Observe that you may narrow the spectrum of expressions but then the (immature?) authors will be hurt by the lower end of the established spectrum anyway. So, once again, using that new newspeech lower end of the allowed spectrum will be considered insensitive or even "rude" (what a nonsense--calling a person the worst names is ok, but evaluating an element in a poem is rude?).

Thus the only solution (pseudo-solution) would be that both the minor artistic flaws and the drastic flops would have to be described in the same terms! In other words, we would not have a way to tell them apart. The problem is real. The ability to see the artistic truth would be severly limited (and it already is).

*****

It is not an abstract problem, it's real. There were many poems on Internet, including Literotica, on which I would comment, but I didn't. I do feel the pressure of the "polite camp" (sorry for this sarcasm). Say, I see a promising poem. I would like to tell the author and the forum that it is a good poem. If it didn't have any flaw, I would. There are very few poems without flaws. If I don't mention the flaws then it is not honest, not useful to anybody, it'd be misleading. But if I did, then the admissible language of the "polite camp" equates the relatively minor flaws and the gross artistic errors. A mild criticism would be equated with the different kind of critique of weaker poems. The author of the strong poem may rightly feel injured.

It is artistically not a good situation. The problems, which are minor in the context of all poems, are major in the context of the difference between a good poem and a superb poem. Then half of the secret is in such details--they are not details anymore, when the top level art is considered.

Without the full spectrum of expression it is not possible to discuss poems.

*****

One could say, that I should write privately each time. But why should I? And first of all such a sugestion is an acknowledgment of the rotten situation on the forum. Instead of making the shoe to conform to the foot do you cut your toes or stretch your foot on a torture machine?

We have Internet. Email exchanges cannot replace forums. A forum is much more efficient then email, when the atmosphere is proper. If you are serious about poetry then you will gain more from the discussions of poems by others than from discussing your own poems. You need both but in proportion 20:1 (20 poems by others versus 1 by you). The craving for comments on your own poems is crazy. It is understandable but you should keep it under control, you should not give in.

Expelling honest artistic exchanges to the email would be a huge step backward.

Is this your ideal? To have the bullshit exchanges on the forum and the honest ones in the email only?

I know from the experience that it is hard to keep an email exchange sharp for a prolonged time, it's virtually impossible.

*****

To be specific, and I hope that Anna will forgive me, I wanted to write right away that I liked her poem pink gown, that it is a strong poem. Possibly it should not be changed, but certainly one may wonder about a few places in it, and I didn't feel like justly praising her poem but without mentioning the spots which in my opinion are somewhat weak. On the other hand, I didn't want to make my critical remarks either, because they would sound more or less like a criticism of many poems which are way weaker than "pink gown". There is just no way around it, when comments are self-censored and when the commentators, who praise poor poems are not only poor (as commentators) but also not willing to accept the wrongness of their judgement after it is pointed out to them. Then the respect for art is lost completely and replaced by false pronouncements.

Since I mentioned certain spots in the Anna's poem then let me present them. Word "eyes" (line 4) and "look" (line 5) make an inefficient combination, which produces a wordy noise (for no good reason). I don't want to provide fixes here, it's rather Anna's job, but here ommiting word "eyes" should be at least compared with other possible solutions.

More subtle is the question of "my" in line 5. The unfortunate strongly suggestive routine interpretation is that "my" means "of the woman (of the narrator or any woman). It's unfortunate because it is illogical (the woman is not doing the invitation). It is an important place in the poem. I hope that Anna will make it perfect. Then it will be great! Possibly, it should be stated so that the breast itself, through that thin fabric, will invite the potential onlookers: look, look at me-breast. I don't know. It is just very important to have the text here perfectly crisp, so that it will be an image speaking to the reader, and not the author from behind the image.

Lines 1-3-5 in stanza 4 ("how quickly...") should be turned into poetry. Most likely, I am quite sure, the culprit is line 3, too many words which have nothing to do with poetry: "...do not ... what this..". An instant description of the narrators facial expression or of a gesture would be perhaps preferable as that line 3.

I would somehow avoid "just" from the ending (the 2nd line from the end), it lowers the quality of the voice. Once you are at this task, perhaps you will manage to avoid "it is" as well. Placebo kills poetry. The goal is to express the feeling that it is the first time but already it's long or tiring, and ... etc. That's what you, Anna, are doing, but try to do it without "it is" and "just". Let each word and each element of the poem carries poetry.

It is a very strong ending in the first place. Do I really have to say such obvious things? The whole poem is very good.

Oooops! You have two more lines (about "pink"). Get rid of them. Or adopt them earlier in the poem (in a modified version perhaps, so that they will fit). Naeh, you don't need them. They are too didactic anyway, you will not lose much. You already have them in the title. And "none of us do" is seriously poor, too hard to verify, doesn't sound true, sounds like propaganda.

*****

Now tell me guys, should one write in the same way about much-much weaker poems? Really? (Then Anna would be forgiven in the court, by jury, after killing me).

*****

OK, best regards to all of you, my cultural, polite, diplomatic, socially skilled, decorum knowing people, who diagnosed me as a rude sociopath, jerk and asshole and many similar things, and who decided so many times that I should "fuck off",

your impolite, unskillful socially, undiplomatic, a rude, the rudest sociopath

Senna Jawa​

PS. But at least, in a contrast to you, I know what poetry is

 

[annaswirls]

oh goodness Senna, forgiveness? you must see how I defend you/ the right to critique poems however you see fit...

I have always been grateful to anything you say about my writing. It is a gift you give. I have already cut the last lines-- you are right, I do have a bad habit of going overboard, and that was one example. The revised version is in the Construction Thread. I will work on it some more.

I agree that the discussion of your personality was completely inappropriate and far more rude than any comment you could make about a poem. I apologize for any part I may have taken in that discussion.

It has been since 9th grade that I stopped thinking about public perception of who I support and defend but I am not finished yet.

I will read your comments more carefully and make changes as I feel they are necessary.

Have a nice day,
J

ps never censor yourself when you are commenting on my work. please. I like when people use words like-- this line is awful-- why mince words. But that is me. ejohne on another forum used to comment like that on my work, but I was okay with it, while others shyed away, I wanted it, because he would see mistakes in a "good" poem as insults to the art and that was where his frustration came from. When something is almost there and yet isn't there.

 

[Maria2394]

DEar SJ,

I for one have watched people on this forum, and I DO NOT believe you are the rudest. i can be rude, most folks can be, some make a practice of it.

You are very honest and you have your own way, which so many peole are too quick to judge. I have been disheartened by personal attacks on here and i Have been drawn into ;the mess something which i have vowed will never happen again.

I enjoy your poetry and your comments, and i can see how some people may perceive them as rude, simply because you do not politic and kiss up. I respect you. YOu dont have to be all bubbles and sunshine to impress me, just be yourself. and I wish I could write something that would warrant a comment from you.

Pathetic is a harsh word, I agree with that, but a word is that, just a word. I Have thought the same about some of my own work. No one had to tell me... what could you have said that would have not raised such ire? I cant think of anything...just be you. You do have friends, people who care. count me among them, and I do not care if that makes me outcast, I rather dislike crowds anyway



maria

 

[Liar]

Should we be able to be frank to one another, to use the full spectrum of the vocabulary to describe things, speak freely about poems without having to consider the emotional recation of the poet?

Yes, in the best of worlds.

But communication between humans is a hermeneutic (a bit of a pseudo-intellecual term I know, but it's one of the few fancy words I know, so indulge me) practice. Peer to peer communication moreso than any other. Words carry connotations, fuzzy at best, they transmit from product to creator unintentionally, they change meaning in the reader's eye compared to the writer's. That's why scientific and legal texts are such drags. In order not to be open to too much (mis)intepretation, they have to create a sub (or super) language that only work in their context.

We don't have that here, so we have to consider what people are likely to expect of us, and act accordingly. Without the attention and benevolence of the reciever, a communicator has sod all chances of getting the point across. Some readers will take it the right way, but we can't expect that all do. Yes, this means a compromised and a crippled tool for giving feedback to those who have yet to know us and our 'style'. But I see no other functional solution.

I certainly wish people were better listeners, able to set their egos aside and revieve crticism with an open mind instead of an exposed heart. I try to tell people here and elsewhere that what they precieve as rudeness and insults is merely a failure in communicating. Unless of course one intends to be rude and insulting, which we have established by now that you don't, right?

But that's the way the world look, and that's the way people are. Can we change it? I can't. I can only try to function witin it's limits. Not that I always succeed. I'm prone to let debacle get the best of me and start flinging personal attacks with the best of them. As I'm sure you've seen.

However, since I suspect you scooped up the "decorum" reference from a post of mine, let me just say that that was not directed at you exclusively. It was a general statement and advice to any reciever of communication.

anyway, that's my 2c, do with them what you wish, folks

/the sleazy one

 

[Angeline]

Senna, I'm sorry if I seem rude in trying to explain to others why I think you comment the way you do. Most of the time I think you're simply being honest. I've never thought it fair that people make you a scapegoat because they can't handle honesty. You've attacked people here in the past though--I would say without provocation, you would probably disagree. I don't think your motives are always misunderstood, but I think they are most of the time.

Who and what you wish to comment on is, obviously, your business. I think you waste your time commenting on some poems here because all the writer (and many others) can see is that you've used "negative" words; they never get that you're addressing the poem and that you don't equate the poem with the person. But that's my opinion.

I'm glad you're around again because you understand poetry better than most people I know and I learn from reading your comments on any poem. I think you'll always cause controversy here though because most people can't separate poetry critique from personal attack. And I doubt this is the only place you've experienced this. Perhaps this time people will get it and we can discuss poems and not be diverted into dissecting your motives. I do regret that I participated in that yesterday. I should learn to just keep my mouth shut and stick to the poems. I always get myself into trouble when I start trying to defend/explain people, something I'm drawn to do in spite of what experience should have taught me by now.

 

[bogusbrig]

Since a lot of what you said is aimed at me. I asked you a question you were rude, snobbish and superior in your reply. You pressed my buttons and got under my skin. Am I sorry for what I called you? No. Because I don't think you are sorry for being rude and snobbish.

Obviously the initial problem was me for daring to ask you how you justify such concrete opinions.

You obviously have a lot of respect on the board for your knowledge of poetry. I'm always going to disagree with you so the best thing I can do is ignore you.

You have a way with put downs when making a critique which I don't think carries through to your own work, which good as it might be, as I have said before, I don't think it is as good as the height of the pedestal you put yourself on.

Before the accusations start about 1 votes on your poem. I voted a 5 and I stick by my criticism that the word 'morphed' jars with me because along with the narrative of the poem, I just get computer animated images. Obviously that is not the concensus view but I don't care, it is all merely opinion at the end of the day.

 

[TheRainMan]

Senna,

I have seen enough of your posts and commentary to know for certain that your knowledge of the art of poetry is deep. Your comments (the ones I've seen, anyway) always refer to the poem itself, and never to the poet.

I think anyone who thought your comment on the poem the other day was directed at the person and not at the words is misunderstanding what you write, and that portion of the problem lies with them, not you.

Their reaction had more to do with the tone of your words (which a whole host of people, right or wrong, view as anywhere from snobbish to insulting) and it is quite another matter -- one of communication skills and respect, and not poetry.

Apparently, this sort of brouhaha has been going on here a lot longer than I have been here. Many people seem to think your manner is harsh, and perhaps you might consider softening it some, just to keep the peace and prevent people's insecurities from showing themselves in technicolor. You can still get your poetry points across without drawing so much ire, misdirected as much of it might be.

You have a lot to give, and I for one would like your resurfacing here to be a permanent one, and a productive one as well, for myself and all the poets.

That would seem impossible if bickering and self-defense take the front seat instead of poetry.

 

[Guest]

Since a lot of what you said is aimed at me. I asked you a question you were rude, snobbish and superior in your reply. You pressed my buttons and got under my skin. Am I sorry for what I called you? No. Because I don't think you are sorry for being rude and snobbish.

Obviously the initial problem was me for daring to ask you how you justify such concrete opinions.

You obviously have a lot of respect on the board for your knowledge of poetry. I'm always going to disagree with you so the best thing I can do is ignore you.

You have a way with put downs when making a critique which I don't think carries through to your own work, which good as it might be, as I have said before, I don't think it is as good as the height of the pedestal you put yourself on.

Before the accusations start about 1 votes on your poem. I voted a 5 and I stick by my criticism that the word 'morphed' jars with me because along with the narrative of the poem, I just get computer animated images. Obviously that is not the concensus view but I don't care, it is all merely opinion at the end of the day.

Very well said, bogus.

On another note: I have no idea why Senna is going thread happy here when he should be commenting back to people in the thread I made. That's where all these comments started. He's obviously paranoid - accusing, guessing, and naming people for giving him bad votes. Mr. Crapola is finally getting a taste of his own medicine and doesn't like it. It's just a shame those that are doing it are playing the anonymous game.



edit to say that yes, I'm accusing too. I believe he's Mr. Crapola. I never got one so I have no reason to be paranoid. I'm just saying.

 

[Rybka]

Contagious?

Very well said, bogus.

On another note: I have no idea why Senna is going thread happy here when he should be commenting back to people in the thread I made. That's where all these comments started. He's obviously paranoid - accusing, guessing, and naming people for giving him bad votes. Mr. Crapola is finally getting a taste of his own medicine and doesn't like it. It's just a shame those that are doing it are playing the anonymous game.

Over ~

Why are you doing this? Shame on you! You are becoming even more personally negative than the one you attack. Perhaps Senna Jawa is contagious?

 

[Guest]

Why are you doing this? Shame on you! You are becoming even more personally negative than the one you attack. Perhaps Senna Jawa is contagious?

I have no regrets. It's how I feel. It's not like I'm reviewing a darn poem of his. I'm stating in public that he's rude and sarcastic with his comments. If you feel this was an attack, then perhaps you should look up the word. I believe that's what you're saying - that I'm attacking the guy?? Not true. He needs to change his attitude. His above post is horrible and dripping with sarcasm, which is much worse than what I've ever said.

 

[*Catbabe*]

I have no regrets. It's how I feel. It's not like I'm reviewing a darn poem of his. I'm stating in public that he's rude and sarcastic with his comments. If you feel this was an attack, then perhaps you should look up the word. I believe that's what you're saying - that I'm attacking the guy?? Not true. He needs to change his attitude. His above post is horrible and dripping with sarcasm, which is much worse than what I've ever said.

How can you not see the irony in publically harping at someone to change their negative public behaviour?

It is a sign of wisdom and maturity to have strong feelings about something or someone and keep them to yourself. You must meet dozens of people every week whom you would love to ask to change or call they rude. Do you do it? If you do, I am surprised you are employed, have any friends or have not been punched in the face as of yet. Adult people accept people as they are or they move on and stay focused on things they can control, like themselves.

When different people come together there will be differences. Why fight that all the time? Why assume that your values and practices should be adopted by anyone else... let alone everyone else.

 

[Guest]

How can you not see the irony in publically harping at someone to change their negative public behaviour?

So you agree, huh?

It is a sign of wisdom and maturity to have strong feelings about something or someone and keep them to yourself. You must meet dozens of people every week whom you would love to ask to change or call they rude. Do you do it? If you do, I am surprised you are employed, have any friends or have not been punched in the face as of yet. Adult people accept people as they are or they move on and stay focused on things they can control, like themselves.

Yup, I speak my mind when I feel someone is rude. Absolutely! And if people get punched in the face for stating their opinions in public (not on a board) we'd all be in jail.

When different people come together there will be differences. Why fight that all the time? Why assume that your values and practices should be adopted by anyone else... let alone everyone else.

You don't want to argue this. I could pull up posts from you proving you have done the same.

 

[Senna Jawa]

proportions

I've written my post "generically", writing "several of you", without any specific names. I didn't want it to be unnecessarily overly personal. The drawback was that those who never claimed to know how horrible my personality is, and who even supported me, could feel uneasy about accidentally being included into "several". I am sorry for this, and please, don't worry, I am grateful to you.

*****

In the past, with one of my quite vicious attackers, we became soon virtual friends. We had a correspondence which went beyond poetry, into private life affairs. So, the initial clash was not any end of the world to us.

*****

My comments about the poems are not the only reason for the negative ("refined" or violent) reactions directed at me. I'll avoid any speculation and will provide raw facts.

Soon after I joined this forum I was somehow naively enthusiastic, I wanted to share the best I had, which was a proposal for two artistic projects. Before I could finish the description (I didn't get beyond the introduction) I've already encountered hostility! Those people are not active here either. BTW, I was nicely greeted here by Judo, she even liked my "Poe tr y".

On another occasion, we were discussing Charles Bukowski on this forum. One can't realistically justify each and every claim in a single discussion post, and especially you can't in advance answer all possible questions, when you make a statement of a significant scope. But I am always willing to provide further details or explanations (I don't bluff, I don't pretend). If I am asked politely (just normally), I happily answer the question, it is nice then. Instead, I was attacked right away, and asked in a hostile, agressive way. And before I had a chance to answer, that same person already wrote that my supposed behavior was "typical" (typical for what?), that "it figures", s/he had implied some kind of dishonesty on my part. Well, I don't have to answer any q's under such unfair, ugly and hostile circumstances. The whole promising discussion went down the drain, and it was a great pity.

It is my experience that when I state my views, nothing personal after all (one would think), I am often met with hostility.

If I am asked for more details, I will provide them. But when my ears are assaulted by angry barking at me, I have no obligation to do so.

*****

I was teasing, both times, about the "1" for "achilles" (votes are but a trivia item). It was a bad idea though, and for that I apologize to saldne and Bogu.

*****

Regards,

Senna Jawa​

PS. My usage of "morph" in "achilles" is an artistic issue and I may address it in another thread. Here let me only say that I have expected discomfort which "morphed" could cause some readers (I even had a private feedback before I posted "achilles"). Nevertheless, it is a super-precise word for my text (a few years from now the attitude toward "morph" might change due to the common acceptance of the word; I'd choose it regardless).

PPS. Maria, I believe that I did comment on one of your poems (I am embarrassed that it was only one; hm, I also remember that my comment was not all ah&oh, but then, what's new ). Yes, you are a thousand times nicer to me than vice versa, shame on me.

PPS. Anna, I am glad, that you moved the last two lines into the middle of the poem, and that it is now only two women who avoid pink, instead of all of them.

 

[*Catbabe*]

You don't want to argue this. I could pull up posts from you proving you have done the same.

That's a lovely mature response. So, nice to see you considered my words carefully before responding.

Be my guest, if you have nothing better to do. I think you will notice something though... or maybe not. If you looked carefully, you would see that I am never rude until someone is rude directly to me, I express my opinion and when I see it is changing nothing, I move on.

As I am now. Have fun and good luck with everything. I have better things to do than argue whether the world is black and white when everyone already knows it's full of colour.

 

[Maria2394]

Yes, Senna,

now that I think about it you did comment on one of mine. And I appreciated it very much. It has since been deleted, ( the whole poem). I have never wanted justahs and ohs from you, just the same type constructive crit you give other people. I woudlnt freak out. BUt I admit Iw ould LOVE to write something that you would feel like you couldnt improve upon, but I am not that experienced yet, not that good. I am still learing.

I am well aware of how you critique, and it doesnt scare me at all. And I am pretty sure that I have never called you any names on here OR in private. I understand your persona, a little bit. Math oriented people are "different" and thats just a fact of life. I wish I were a math person... then maybe I would nt feel so emotionally wrecked all the time

hugs,

maria

 

[*Catbabe*]

Senna commented on a haiku I wrote a million years ago. It had lots of 'oh' and 'ah' comments, none of which I remember nor did they have any lasting impact of me as a writer.

Senna's comment was very detailed. He thought two out of the three lines were *ahem* weak and explained why. I read every word very carefully and saved the comment and remember exactly what he said, even to this day.

I also remember that he thought my third line was something akin to 'not too bad." After reading his comments on the first two lines, his comment on the third was something that had great value to me.

I appreciated it and appreciate what he brings to the forum.

 

[Liar]

It is my experience that when I state my views, nothing personal after all (one would think), I am often met with hostility.

Yes. Ever considered why?

Because time and again your comments and posts look like hostility (or worse, patronizing and scorn) to an even slightly unattentive reader. If your words are intended as such or not is irrelevant. They claim you started it. You claim they did. I claim you allow such misintepretation by your choice of rhethorics. It's the same reason that some people seems to regard twelveoone their bogeyman. (I don't know if you followed that recent debacle or not, might mean nothing to you.)

Whereas Saldne's initial posts back there for instance was intended as an angry rant and a hostile personal attack. I don't approve of personal attacks per se. But by golly, it was recieved exactly as intended. Razor sharp communication.

Well, peace, that's my piece. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that.


And for the record, if there was any doubt: You and anyone else should feel free to comment in any way you damn well please on my poems.

 

[bogusbrig]

I think it is about time we brought all this to an end, it has all lost a sense of scale and got out of all proportion and we should get back to discussing poetry.

My initial question to Senna was not aggressive or at least not ment to be but I can see it could be interpreted that way.

I let myself down by over reacting to Senna's reply. I went way over the top and it was totally uncalled for. I should have kept a sense of proportion. I don't know what precisely it was about Senna's reply that pressed my buttons so violently but something did.

Senna, I do apologise for over reacting, it was unnecessary and uncalled for and I don't think you are a sociopath, I was still festering so I apologize for that too.

The 'morphed' I stick with that until convinced otherwise.

 

[TheRainMan]

I think it is about time we brought all this to an end, it has all lost a sense of scale and got out of all proportion and we should get back to discussing poetry.

My initial question to Senna was not aggressive or at least not ment to be but I can see it could be interpreted that way.

I let myself down by over reacting to Senna's reply. I went way over the top and it was totally uncalled for. I should have kept a sense of proportion. I don't know what precisely it was about Senna's reply that pressed my buttons so violently but something did.

Senna, I do apologise for over reacting, it was unnecessary and uncalled for and I don't think you are a sociopath, I was still festering so I apologize for that too.

The 'morphed' I stick with that until convinced otherwise.

Amen.

Not because I cast judgement on what you or Senna or anyone else did or didn't do -- but because you want it ended.

So do I.

I am here for poetry.

And I am sick of this shit.

 

[Guest]

Whereas Saldne's initial posts back there for instance was intended as an angry rant and a hostile personal attack. I don't approve of personal attacks per se. But by golly, it was recieved exactly as intended. Razor sharp communication.

I agree. This is razor sharp communication below. It was meant to be, but I wouldn't call it an attack.

At least I have given KIND constructive criticism on poems that people were very thankful for. I don't believe Senna has ever been kind in his reviews/comments so I spoke my mind in public. And I still have no regrets - especially when I get emails from Lit poets saying "Go saldne, go! It's about time someone told him off!" Or "Thank you so much for starting the feedback thread regarding Senna. Someone needs to put that man in place."

I'm done. I said how I felt and hopefully he'll be kind to people in the near future when giving comments on poems - especially to those who are new. I have this feeling he won't but at least I feel better now that I vented. It needed to be done in my opinion. Again, no regrets. I am done. I am done. Over and out!

saldne said "Now I feel like I'm venting in public like twelveoone. But you know what? I'm not coming back to this thread. I'm done. I just had to say you're fucking rotten."

 

[anniebug's man]

What's with the navel gazing? It amazes me. With the exception of Senna's review of anna's pink gown poem this entire thread is just an exercise in the most indescribable babble. Do we really all need to be stroked all the time?

I have never thought Senna rude, just whitty, harsh, and yes arrogant at times and of course most generally right on point.

Let's cut the crap and get down to business.

 

[annaswirls]

What's with the navel gazing? It amazes me. With the exception of Senna's review of anna's pink gown poem this entire thread is just an exercise in the most indescribable babble. Do we really all need to be stroked all the time?

I have never thought Senna rude, just whitty, harsh, and yes arrogant at times and of course most generally right on point.

Let's cut the crap and get down to business.

the stroking business? I could use a good stroking about now.

 

[anniebug's man]

the stroking business? I could use a good stroking about now.

Now that is a proposition!
Now is that a proposition?

 

[Guest]

The teachers that get the best results care little for their pupil's feelings only urging them to improve. When it all boils down it's really all just personal opinion to be taken or left. The choice is the individual's.

 

[bogusbrig]

The teachers that get the best results care little for their pupil's feelings only urging them to improve. When it all boils down it's really all just personal opinion to be taken or left. The choice is the individual's.

I'm not sure about this. Teaching is an art and different pupils have different needs. By the time one gets to university then I think that is different. The lecturer is there merely to impart knowledge and give direction and not to nurse maid students and rejection of a lecturer's values and view of life is not uncommon. I'm glad I did. I have earned far more directly through my artwork than my tutor's at college ever did.