"Superman's Lament" by Skibum

[Softly]

Thank you skibum for reporting to us the details of "Superman's Laments," just as he told you. None of us will read about the "Man of Steel" again, without considering
his plights.
Your writing, as I and others have commented
about before, is simple excellent.

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm still laughing, and wiping tears from my eyes

Poor guy.

 

[Bob Waters]

Skibum,
Nice story, but it appears to have been done before. I refer you to a humorous essay entitled 'Man of Steel, Woman of Kleanex' by noted SF author Larry Niven.

 

[Skibum]

Originally posted by lepeu:
Skibum,
Nice story, but it appears to have been done before. I refer you to a humorous essay entitled 'Man of Steel, Woman of Kleanex' by noted SF author Larry Niven.

Would you be able to tell me the title of the anthology that Niven's essay is in. I'd really like to see how a true master dealt with the subject.

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by skibum:
Would you be able to tell me the title of the anthology that Niven's essay is in. I'd really like to see how a true master dealt with the subject.

I'm not sure wher it first appeared, but it's included in N-Space. A Tor Paperback printed in 1991. (Copyright 1990, First edition September 1990 in HB)

I like your rendition better. Niven took an analytical third person approach. I liked the personal touch of your first person lament.




[This message has been edited by Weird Harold (edited 06-14-2000).]

 

[Whispersecret]

I have never seen Niven's essay, nor do I doubt that it exists, but I must say that from what I know of skibum, he simply is not the type of person who would purloin someone else's work and call it his own.

I'm pretty sure that Niven didn't address the sexual side of Superman (wet dreams, the speed of ejaculate, etc.) So, I hope no one is thinking of accusing skibum of plagiarism. Sometimes the same idea will occur to different people. It happens.

Like I said, I haven't read Niven's Superman thing, but I'd be interested to see how it differs from skibum's, because I'm sure it does.

 

[Laurel]

I have to go with WS on this one. The New Yorker printed an insanely good article a few years ago on the ambiguities surrounding plagiarism, the gist of which was that since our brains are sponges, and we tend to "sample" writers that we enjoy, it's often very difficult - except in fairly obvious situations where an author copies whole sections word for word - to distinguish plagiarism from influence. If we're lucky, our influences mesh so that there's only hints of Faulkner, of Wharton, of Brodkey, of television, of mom, of pop culture. But with new writers who haven't had time to simmer their pot of favorites down into a stew, sometimes you'll even find whole scenes that seem "stolen". Also, with thousands of writers writing within the same cultural context, it would be odd if they DIDN'T touch upon the same subjects.

I remember a few years ago Killing Joke sued Nirvana claiming that the main guitar riff in "Come As You Are" was blatantly lifted from "Living in the Eighties". And if you listen, it DOES sound like the same riff, only at a different tempo... However, the question of intent comes into play. Did Kurt Cobain hear the Killing Joke song and say "hmmm, I think I'll take those notes and slow 'em down a bit & make my own song around em"? I doubt it. More likely, at one point in time he heard the Killing Joke song (which for a time was hard to avoid on the radio) and his mind filed away those notes for later reference. And Killing Joke & Nirvana, being contemporaries, probably grew up listening to the same bands. It's possible that Killing Joke lifted part of the riff from somewhere else & changed it for their own use. Is that plagiarism? If it is, then there isn't an artist alive - writer, painter, songwriter - who ISN'T a plagiarist.

From what WH said about the difference in tenses, I would tend to doubt that it's anything but a coincidence. The story of Superman is a part of pop culture, so it isn't surprising that more than writer would attempt the subject of Superman's extracurricular interests. However, Skibum asked me to pull the story until he could find and read it to determine how similar the two were and I did because he's the author and it's his story. Hopefully, he'll read the Niven version and give me the go-ahead to re-add his story to our site.

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by whispersecret:
I'm pretty sure that Niven didn't address the sexual side of Superman (wet dreams, the speed of ejaculate, etc.) So, I hope no one is thinking of accusing skibum of plagiarism.

N-Space is available from the Clark County Libray sytem, and probably in your local library.

Man of Steel -- Woman of Kleenex addresses the issue of Kal El's continued single status and goes step by step in logical sequence as to why he has remained single. It addresses the issue of wet dreams and the speed of ejaculate along with the problems of "super sperm" and the problems of a human woman bearing a Kryptonian (super) child.

To me, there is absolutely no question of plagiarism. The two are different treatments of a single idea. The end results are very different in tone and content. Niven's article is a scholorly treatise, while Skibum wrote an emotional essay. Skibum's image of a "Spontaneous C-Section" didn't occur to Mr. Niven.

I have no doubt that as soon as Skibum has a chance to read Niven's treatise, we'll again be able to enjoy Skibum's story.

 

[Guest]

I certainly don't think Skibum has plagiarised Larry Niven.

Like WS says - people are always coming up with similar ideas. A creative mind is going to look at a character like Superman and realise that there's a story in the fact that he is biologically different from normal humans. The way he... uhm 'performs' is going to be different.

That's how many science fiction writers write their stories. They'll create a world that has one tiny difference to our own - eg higher gravitational pull - and follow every logical conclusion from that. Two writers starting off from the same point are liable to come to quite a few similar conclusions.

I remember reading that the telephone was invented by two different people at the same time. It's just that the canny Scotsman, Alexander Bell, got to the patent office first.

Anyway - as far as I can gather, copyright doesn't exist on an idea, only on its method of telling. It's the craft of the writer - the way they've told a story, the actual words they've used - that are protected, not the idea itself. Correct me if I'm wrong about this - and it may only be British law - but I'm sure that copyright in fiction doesn't exist on an idea.

I think it does exist on characters, though, so maybe that's a problem. I remember a Scottish band being forced by DC comics to change their name from Captain America.

[This message has been edited by roger simian (edited 06-16-2000).]

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Kerrie O'Keefe:
Ah, Roger--if anyone made a band called Captain America change its name, it would have been Marvel Comics, not DC.

Quite right. My mistake.

They were hassled into changing their name though. Their first couple of singles were under the name Captain America but they had to change it to Eugenius for their albums.

Of course, that could all have just been a publicity scam. Creation Records were renowned for their publicity stunts. The Welsh group Super Furry Animals bought an armoured tank with their advance and drove it around the country.

Not really relevant here. Sorry.

Uhm.... on with the good work.

rog

 

[Bob Waters]

Woah,
Seems I kicked over a can of worms. I was not accusing anyone of plagerism and if my post read that way it was unintentional. I laughed my a## off the first time I read Niven's essay so it stuck with me. The two are very similar - that's all. I apologize for the 'it's been done' line - I didn't mean it the way it sounded. Sloppy writing on my part. Please forgive any slight - it was unintended.

 

[Skibum]

Originally posted by lepeu:
Please forgive any slight - it was unintended.

No offense taken on my part, lepeu. I welcome any information that you have. I had never heard of Mr. Niven's story, although I am a fan of his. Until I read his story I will keep "Superman's Lament" off the board.



[This message has been edited by skibum (edited 06-16-2000).]

 

[Skibum]

Just to give a quick update, I hve been unable to find a copy of Mr. Niven's anthology locally, so it will be a while before I can read his work and compare it to my own. Until then, "Superman's Lament" will be off the board. Sorry.

 

[Skibum]

At Last!

Just a quick note to all interested: I have finaly found a copy of "N-Space" and read "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex". There are similarities, but Mr. Niven's work is much more thought out and researched than mine. "Superman's Lament" is intended to be a rather sacastic comment from Superman's POV about some of the difficulties a being with super abilities might experience. I am convinced that I was not influenced by Mr. Nivens's essay, and have asked Laurel to repost my story. Thanks for the support and kind words from those of you who read it and commented before.

 

[Kamiyue2c]

Hurrah!

I've been watching this thread and having read the Niven version, I've been dying to read Skibum's treatment. Looking forward to the repost and I will reply again afterward.

In Superman II, Supes didn't give up his power until after he slept with Lois so people thought I was crazy in the theater, giggling because her head wasn't "blown off" by his climax (I'd read the story shortly before, it originally came out either in the late 70s or early 80s).

e2c

 

[Skibum]

I've been watching this thread and having read the Niven version, I've been dying to read Skibum's treatment. Looking forward to the repost and I will reply again afterward.

Wait no more, Kamiyue2c, "Superman's Lament is once again available to be read on Literotica. Look in the erotic couplings section, or under my member profile for the link.

Or just click here:
http://www.literotica.com/storyxs/stories/sl_e_808_f0.shtml

[Edited by Skibum on 07-03-2000 at 09:45 PM]

 

[Kamiyue2c]

Fantastic. I just loved it. How about the sequel? Is he going after his cousin? Or what about Supergirl's Lament. An impenetrable hymen or the orgasmic squeeze of death... She might squeeze him off, so to speak. This is just killing me. LOLROTF

Keep it up.

e2c

 

[Skibum]

Supergirl Whining

I just wanted to revive this thread to let the interested parties know that a sequel, "Supergirl Whining", authored by CreamyLady and myself has been posted on Literotica.

So, go, read, enjoy! There is a second sequel that has been submited, and will appear at a future date. More are planned, but nothing concrete yet.

 

[ANiceGuy]

Chuckled so much I had to.....

When I read SuperGirls Lament I loved it and was pretty sure I had read stories in the same ilk but not erotic. That is one thing I love about erotic writing Real emotions and feeling cum out, not suppressed written for the censor pablum.

GREAT Job Skibum! Now if we can get some one to do in in audio!!! hehehe (Are you working on that Skibum?)

 

[Skibum]

Thanks, Nice Guy. There are no plans for an audio version at present, but the next installment, "Fortress of Ecstacy" has already been submitted.

[Edited by Skibum on 10-03-2000 at 08:58 PM]

 

[ANiceGuy]

This backlog is like watching a stripper!!!

Great I can't wait to read "Fortress of Extasy" This backlog is frustrating on one hand and tantalizing on the other. I have heard one author after another say that a sequel is on the way and keep checking for those sequels. The waiting makes the reading that much more exciting!!! I have a series called Kimberly Goes Vamp in the que and am busy writing new chapters while I wait. Waiting for my very first story was the hardest I think.

I don't know about you but I'd much rather have a girl slowly take her cloths off in front of me or let me help her take them off then have her quickly get undressed and hop in bed! My wife complained once that I was ruining a dozen baby coll nighty's a month. I told her she could get into bed naked. She said "And what miss the fun of having you rip them off me!!" We would just visit her favorite store and buy a couple weeks of baby dolls. It was fun too!

It will be nice when the stories are posted in two or three days but I can live with the current situation. (He says as his mouse hand begins to twitch thinking of clicking on the "new" stories page!!! hehehe)

ANiceGuy