Suggestion for new category: Fanfic

[Sarastro]

I notice that the Celebrities category contains stories about a number of fictional characters, such as superheroes and characters from movies and TV series (like Star Trek).

Since these aren't living, breathing celebrities, how about creating a new category for them, for instance Fan Fiction?

~Sarastro

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

[deliciously_naughty]

That would be amazing!

I often think that the fanfic gets lost in the jenna jameson/britney spears celeb stories

 

[Icingsugar]

I'm with you. They are two entirely different things. I mean, Fanfic has more in common with parody (except that it's more often homage, another side of the same coin) than the celeb stuff.

 

[Madame Manga]

There you go. Even in fan fiction culture, "celebrity" stories are often sneered at. For a long time, they were almost taboo within the traditional fandoms and were not acceptable on Usenet fic newsgroups or as zine submissions, but of course these days just about anything goes.

At the very least, celebrity stories are labeled "real person fic" or RPF for short, and many avid ficcers still won't associate themselves with RPF on all sorts of grounds. I haven't posted many of my fic stories on Lit, and I suppose the vastly over-broad categories are one reason why.

MM

 

[snooper]

Yes - I agree. Then we can all see at a glance which stories plagiarise characters, plots and settings, as opposed to those which merely plagiarise personalities and appearances.

 

[Madame Manga]

Yes - I agree. Then we can all see at a glance which stories plagiarise characters, plots and settings, as opposed to those which merely plagiarise personalities and appearances.

We've had this argument on the AH before. I'm too pooped to have it again, so look up my posts on the subject and consider yourself suitably refuted.

MM

 

[KillerMuffin]

Fanfiction is illegal.

 

[Sarastro]

Can't be covered by the same parody clause that the celebrity stories are protected by?

 

[cahab]

Fanfiction is illegal.

Not that I doubt you, KM, but:

1) Who says, and where? That must have been a fun day in senate. Let's feed the world! No, I've a better idea, let's stop people writing about Star Trek.

2) If it is illegal, er, there's a hell of a lot of it on Lit. Shouldn't we do something about that? I don't really think not having it in a separate category's gonna save us.

 

[Madame Manga]

Fan fiction is by no means a clear-cut issue in copyright law. Better to say that the legality of fan fiction has not been established in either the US copyright code or by court precedent. You can make a comprehensive and legally plausible argument either way.

At the moment, most corporate entertainment companies have chosen not to pursue such cases or even explicitly to tolerate fan fiction, for several reasons.

People who write fan fiction do not in general make money from their work. If a copyright holder wins a civil suit against a copyright violator, usually damages are set according to the actual financial loss suffered. It is difficult to demonstrate financial loss from fan fiction, so civil suits have only a punitive or chilling effect.

People who write fan fiction are the most dedicated fans of the TV shows, movies or books in question. Alienating them via lawsuits is not good PR. In the middle 1990s, some suits like this were filed, or at least threatened, against fan sites dedicated to Star Trek properties owned by Viacom. The reaction was vehement enough for Viacom to withdraw the threats and affirm its support for non-profit fan sites.

Since then, the usual reaction to fan fiction is to ignore it, with some exceptions. They include some authors who do not allow fan fiction or only allow it within specific guidelines. The publisher of the Harry Potter books has gone after adult fan fiction but expressed explicit support for non-adult fan fiction. At the moment, the legal situation is almost entirely up in the air, but the general atmosphere is one of de facto toleration.

MM

 

[Couture]

The problem is that some authors and publishing companies will sue over copyright infringement. The legal recourse is to prove satire....

However, neither you nor I nor Lit can afford to get a lawyer to prove anything because we are not going to pay the money necessary to do so. To be on the safe side, Lit stays out of fan fiction.

 

[Madame Manga]

To be on the safe side, Lit stays out of fan fiction.

Uh...it's already here and has been for a long time. I don't think it somehow slipped under the radar, because Celebrity is in many ways even less defensible.

Ironically, I initially came to Lit because FanFiction.net decided to eliminate adult stories. I'm getting the feeling that I am a thoroughgoing cultural subversive even by the standards of the Net, though no one would know it to look at me. ;-)

MM

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The publisher of the Harry Potter books has gone after adult fan fiction

Also known as Potterotica

 

[sweetnpetite]

Thank you for posting all of that. I hope everybody will read it so they will stop repeating non-truths like "lit doenst' do fan fic' and half truths like 'fan fic is illegal'

A true statement would be to say, "fan fic is risky. The legality is questionable.'

All that aside, I think that 'celeb' and 'fan fic' are fine in the same category. I like the categories to be relatively broad, to allow for some variation and creativitity. I don't think there are half as many Britney Spears or Jenna Jameson stories on lit as people think. There is a lot of Star Trek and WWE (formerly WWF)

[[[[[[[[Right now the only new category we need is "Oral" OK, maybe one for "Sex for Pay" or "Sex Industry" (doing it for a living) And I've seen a lot of clamoring for "Historical" But I really really think we should have an Oral category. I don't think orally based stories should have to be stuck in 'Fetish' *]]]]]]]]]

Fan fiction is by no means a clear-cut issue in copyright law. Better to say that the legality of fan fiction has not been established in either the US copyright code or by court precedent. You can make a comprehensive and legally plausible argument either way.

--snip--

At the moment, the legal situation is almost entirely up in the air, but the general atmosphere is one of de facto toleration.

MM

*paid for by 'The Committee For an 'Oral Sex" Category on Lit." [TCFOSCL, inc)

 

[Sarastro]

Madame Manga said:
>The publisher of the Harry Potter books has gone after adult fan fiction

But, but, Harry Potter isn't an adult...?!

 

[Madame Manga]

Madame Manga said:
>The publisher of the Harry Potter books has gone after adult fan fiction

But, but, Harry Potter isn't an adult...?!

Well, yeah--that's more or less the problem. Some people "age up" the younger characters, or only write about the adult characters. Some don't bother with those niceties for reasons of their own. There were rumors of children googling Harry Potter and coming up with smut; that's the probable reason why FanFiction.net removed all the NC-17 stories in every category, and certainly why the Harry Potter publishers are going after the adult fan fiction. They don't mind innocuous stories and fan sites at all.

MM

 

[KillerMuffin]

I dunno why Lit doesn't have a fan fic category. I've never discussed it with anyone before, so I dunno.


I know that it's very stupid for the entertainment industry to piss of its fan base. Fan fiction is written by the fans. Generally they make no cash or just enough in donations, etc. to keep webspace going. I'm also aware that a lot of fans either feel entitled to write fan fiction as if they owned the characters and some disclaimer makes it all better.

I don't think that we should necessarily equate a reluctance to bite the hand that feeds you with a lack of precedent. Cease and desist orders over fanfics abound. Just ask JK Rowling. And yes, those C&D orders were obeyed.

Most places just don't do it because it's a capitalistically stupid move.

Semantics are semantics. I read the copyright code. The notion of "Fair use" is what some people use to call the line blurry. You'll notice it's not copyright holders who are calling that line blurry, it's copyright infringers doing it.

There is only one part of the line that is "blurry" and that's the fact that "fans" write fan fiction. You don't piss of your fan base and that's pretty much unwritten canon.

Fan fiction is copyright infringement. It's publishing works using copyrighted characters and worlds without the copyright holder's consent and without a good "fair use" reason. We all know why fair use was put in there. "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research" as the code itself says.

You can do it because they let you, not because it's quasi-legal.

That's MY opinion and MY opinion only.

Feel free to disagree. I'll feel free to roll my eyes.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Fanfic is copyright infringement, and it is against the law. Parody has a fairly rigid definition, and most Internet 'fanfic' barely passes the definition of writing, let alone parody. To attempt to pass it off as an "homage" is ludicrous, considering the content of most 'fanfic.'

Tolkein's estate, for one, vigorously prosecutes "fan fiction" based on LOTR characters. In fact, they even went after the Harvard Lampoon's brilliant parody "Bored of the Rings," which was published in the 70's. An absolutely hilarious read, if you can find a copy.

I never saw the attraction, personally, using someone else's characters and situations. Seems like lazy writing to me.

Reminds me of when I was working in video game development, and we'd get these demos and proposals from prospective developers (usually two kids in a garage) ... and all they wanted to do was a sequel to an established franchise. The next Zelda, or Mega Man, or whatever .....

In video games, especially, creativity is prized and sought after more than anything else, and these prospective "developers" were so enthralled with the established franchises (which, of course, they'd enjoyed playing) that they had lost sight of their real objective, which was to become creative, original programmers. Although they may have had talent (and many of them did), they were shooting themselves in the foot by their adherence to established characters and situations.

That, to me, is the weakness of 'fanfic': it's a crutch for a decent writer who, otherwise, might become a good writer, and it's only encouragement for a poor writer who has no sense of story or character, no interest in developing his or her craft, and who has to rely on others to provide that.

On the other hand, if someone wants to write a Lit story about Kirk buggering Spock, go at it. I won't read it.

 

[shereads]

Fanfiction is illegal.

You mean it's legal for someone to write about how they raped Britney Spears but not about their three-way with Spiderman and The Tick?

Whoa.

 

[Couture]

And a three way between Moth boy, Tick, and Spiderman wouldn't be considered a parady?

 

[Guest]

The Tick! O, I miss him, and especially the bat hombre.

Perdita

 

[deliciously_naughty]

For me, the line gets drawn when someone tries to make money off fan fic. I enjoy writing it, and sharing it. However, it is not the majority of what I write nor do I think of it as a crutch. Why can't it just be a fun exercise?

As for the LOTR fanfic...you must not see the same sites I've seen. There's plenty of it.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I think all fans like to fantasize about their favourite characters, and I can't see the harm in writing fan fics and sharing them for free, as long as you inform people that it IS a fan fic.

Harm comes into the picture when you try to make money on someone else's ideas and hard work. That's cheap. *wrinkles nose*

Who'd want to get rich and famous for something they haven't done themselves, anyway? Where's the pride?

 

[PCharming]

YES! YES! YES! and you have to have a subcategory for Star Trek voyager...Janeway/seven...whoohooo. god could you get a yummier couple?