Sudan. Will the world take notice?

[Guest]

It saddens me to post such a depressing thread, but I am, for two main reasons.

The first is that I was sat watching the BBC 6 o'clock news earlier and the main report was from Hilary Andersson, in The Sudan. She'd reported from there a month ago, telling of how millions had been displaced from their homes and most of the men murdered by a Government backed group of Arab militia. The women, children and remaining men fled to refugee camps in Darfur, along the Western edge of the country. They are now dying of starvation and disease. The weather has also turned on them. Driving Saharan rains pound their make-shift tents for up to ten hours per day.

The second reason I felt compelled to start a thread about this is because of the recent "How does US politics affect you?" thread. There was a lot of slamming of illegal immigrants in that thread. Somebody - I don't recall their name, as they were not important to me - complained about something as utterly selfish as their swimming pool. I can't even remember why now. I made a post in that thread, which absolutely nobody responded to, saying that we should all think of those less fortunate than us in the world, and other words to that effect.

I am now.

Governments around the world are doing very little help the people of Sudan. The monetary aid promised so far isn't even enough to feed a third of those who need it for the rest of the year. The UK has set up a major Darfur appeal. A report on that can be found here. I urge you all to take a look, even if you feel you can't help at this time.

Hilary Andersson's report, for the BBC, can be read here.

This is a human disaster on a massive scale.

Lou

 

[Guest]

Loulou, I've been following this for some time in the news (online vs. the U.S. media), and also felt it too much to post about, but I'm glad you did. As heartbreakingly and overwhelmingly tragic as it is, I keep up with this type of news cos at the very least I feel I owe these people something to simply 'hear' them. I also tell others about it, but only if I think they will appreciate it. The last news of this weight I kept up with was the Rwanda massacres, seems not so long ago now.

Perdita

 

[cloudy]

Unfortunately, Lou, most people's concerns are much like he-shall-remain-nameless' - he had a rat in his pool, and bitched about his supposed illegal alien neighbors.

It is sad. Many people are afraid to give to causes, thinking their money is going to line someone's pockets rather than going to help those truly in need.

We contribute regularly to the Red Cross, and United Way through direct deductions from my husband's paycheck. But what we can give is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Guest]

Loulou, I've been following this for some time in the news (online vs. the U.S. media), and also felt it too much to post about, but I'm glad you did. As heartbreakingly and overwhelmingly tragic as it is, I keep up with this type of news cos at the very least I feel I owe these people something to simply 'hear' them. I also tell others about it, but only if I think they will appreciate it. The last news of this weight I kept up with was the Rwanda massacres, seems not so long ago now.

Perdita

Thanks, Perdita. I have always followed news such as this very closely; I think a lot of people in the UK do. I wasn't sure how widely reported this news was in the US. Seems not very much.

I am from the "Live Aid" generation. I will never forget those almost biblical images from Ethiopa in 1982/3 (I think it was) and Michael Burke's words resonated with me, even at the age of 9 or 10.

You hit upon one of the most important things we can do. Yes, they need monetary aid, but they also deserve the repsect of being "heard" and their plight known.

The lack of action from the western world during the Rwanda genicides was disgraceful. They are people, for Christ's sake, just like the rest of us.

It is upsetting for us to read and think about, but it doesn't hurt to have our own little bubbles burst from time to time.

Lou

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately, Lou, most people's concerns are much like he-shall-remain-nameless' - he had a rat in his pool, and bitched about his supposed illegal alien neighbors.

It is sad. Many people are afraid to give to causes, thinking their money is going to line someone's pockets rather than going to help those truly in need.

We contribute regularly to the Red Cross, and United Way through direct deductions from my husband's paycheck. But what we can give is a drop in the bucket.

Good. Many drops make an ocean, Cloudy.

Lou

 

[vargas111]

Sudan

If Bush had not made such a hash of Iraq, being totally unprepared for the occupation, the world might, might have more of an appetite for doing something in Sudan.

This is Bosnia on a larger scale and without CNN

 

[cheerful_deviant]

If I had to bet I would say that about 90% of Americans can't even find Sudan on the map, let alone know about any human rights injustices that are going on there.

It just goes to demonstrate how little, we as a country, really know and care about the rest of the world. As long as it doesn't affect the price of a gallon of unleaded we don't care.

But, since the Sudan is not sitting on any major natural resourses that can't be gotten elsewhere (it does have some oil, gold other minerals which are exported) it will continue to be under the radar of the american public, media and government.

Even as we discuss Sudan there are several other African nations and middle east nations whose governments or militia groups regulary conduct human rights atrocities and it never even shows up on the nightly news. Instead we have idiodic comentaries about idiotic statements by actors turned govenors.

It's sad that Americans don't know what is going on in the world around them but it is sadder still that even if they did know they probablly still wouldn't care.

 

[Guest]

Re: Sudan

This is Bosnia on a larger scale and without CNN

So true.

If I had to bet I would say that about 90% of Americans can't even find Sudan on the map, let alone know about any human rights injustices that are going on there.

It just goes to demonstrate how little, we as a country, really know and care about the rest of the world. As long as it doesn't affect the price of a gallon of unleaded we don't care.

But, since the Sudan is not sitting on any major natural resourses that can't be gotten elsewhere (it does have some oil, gold other minerals which are exported) it will continue to be under the radar of the american public, media and government.

Even as we discuss Sudan there are several other African nations and middle east nations whose governments or militia groups regulary conduct human rights atrocities and it never even shows up on the nightly news. Instead we have idiodic comentaries about idiotic statements by actors turned govenors.

It's sad that Americans don't know what is going on in the world around them but it is sadder still that even if they did know they probablly still wouldn't care.

Very well said, CD. I have been thinking many similar things, but felt I wasn't qualified to comment along such lines. I just didn't dare believe what I suspected. Sadly, you have now confirmed it.

Lou

 

[Green_Gem]

Lou,

I hear you and I agree with your sentiments and that these issues should be brought to the attention of the world. Sadly though, it all has to reach crisis proportion before it is really noticed.

I have to just add my two bit here to remind people of Zimbabwe and the maniac dictator who rules there and has been doing so for the past 25 years. Robert Mugabe has recently spent millions of dollars on fighter jets ( to protect his personal mines in the Congo) while the people of Zimbabwe are starving and a recent photograph showed their new innovation of having ambulance wagons drawn by oxen. I kid you not! The article said that since there was a fuel shortage and no way of repairing motor vehicles this was the latest development.

It's frightening to think that Zimbabwe which was a major food producer in Africa and had a strong economy based on farming of tobacco and other exportable crops cannot feed it's people while Robert Mugabe, one of the richest men in the world is allowed to perpetrate gross human rights violations and smash down any opposition. Thabo Mbeki of South Africa insists on maintaining his policy of "quiet diplomacy" which effectively means letting Mad Mugabe do exactly as he pleases. It just makes me so angry when Black Zimbabwean friends of mine tell me of the hardships there, the hunger and the illness and even how their children cannot write exams because there is no money to buy paper.

There is an ironical joke going around: "What did Zimbabwe use before paraffin and candles? 'Electricity!" The tragic thing is it's really not funny.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest for what it's worth.

Green_Gem

 

[Lisa Denton]

Hi lou, let me start by apologizing for losing my temper in that other thread, Cloudy and I got 1-bombed when the thread went off topic and we spoke our minds.
The only problem I see with this is - Who guards the aid, who gets the food and water to these people with fighting everywhere, then who guards the lives of those trying to deliver the aid - If the UN goes in they will want US and British troops. If the red cross goes in they will be hi-jacked and kidnapped and request UN help.
The only answer I see is something close to an air-drop near these camps by the UN. Of course that would, again, require US and British aircraft taking fire from the ground.
I wouldn't compare this to Somalia/Black Hawk Down, but that movie was just a movie, the book told the real story. Delivering aid in a war zone means fighting.
I would, like you, want to hear some suggestions, for I have none.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

One aspect of Sudan is the overwhelming nature of it. It is so easy to turn a blind eye, especially when you take a moment and don't turn a blind eye. There is an overwhelming feeling of helplessness in the face of such suffering. As Cloudy noted her contribution seems just a drop in the ocean. It's very difficult to make people remember that even the ocean is just made up of drops. Your drop is inconsequential, but when combined with millions of other drops it can make a difference. That kind of detachment is hard to keep though, and for many if not most, ignorance is bliss.

In the U.S. there is a predisposition to assume that people in such dire straights are responsible for it somehow. It isn't gross indifference as much as it is a mindset that anyone can change the world. Any kid can grow up to be president. If you work hard & save, you can be the next Bill Gates. We are reared on the idea you can control your own destiny. I think perhaps the average american is so indoctinated to the idea that you can do something about it, that we fail to note significant differences in situation between here and there.

I don't regularly watch the news anymore, I find it depresses me. I do pay some attention and haven't seen Sudan mentioned once. In fact, the only world news I can remeber in the last week that wasn't related to Iraq, Afghanistan or sports is that there is major flooding going on in New Zealand. If I didn't take the time to check Reuters & the Ap in the mornings, I wouldn't even know Sudan existed.

Joe Stalin once remarked that one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is just a statistic. It's a very cynical statement, but one I think that is very true on a psycological level. 10000 death's a day of starvation in Shangrala, is likely to make less impression upon most of us, than the death of one aide worker might. Suzy somebody from east nowhere Tennessee, who was spending her summer in Shangrala helping the poor and was accidnetally gored to death by a water buffalo is someone we can identify with. We almost all know a Suzy Somebody, that person who felt a driving need to help no matter what. Her death is poignant. 10000 deaths is almost impossible to grasp.

I could be very wrong, but that at least is how it seems to me.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

Re. the views expressed about Americans so far, I agree, but I would also note that the peoples "we" ignore more than others are non-white. Here in the states Mexican 'illegals' die in our deserts everyday or are barely existing working below minimum wage washing laundry for 70+ hours per week in Manhattan. I don't mean to be inciteful, just pointing out something about the Sudanese that places them at the height of "otherness".

Recently I read an article in the NYT about southern newspapers that deliberately under-reported the civil rights era news. It may seem more difficult to be biased now, but it's not.

Perdita

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Sudan seems to be one of those unfortunate countries like Bangladesh and Ethiopia where disasters are always just waiting to happen. This one has been building for months.

What's painful for me is to see how the US is capable of doing practically anything it wants in the world, and knowing we could damn well do something about this if we wanted to. We can profess to be so concerned about freedom in Iraq while it apparently doesn't bother us to let tens of thousands of people starve to death in Darfur province. If there were a will, there would be a way.

If there's any place that desperately needs regime change, it's Sudan.

All of sub-saharan Africa needs help. I don't know how many millions of people are expected to die of AIDS next year while we're still sitting here guarding our drug companies' profits, but it's shocking beyond belief. If the US wants to regain some of its stature and credibility in the world, we could start right there.

---dr.M.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I think Colly, as usual, makes several excelent points:

In the U.S. there is a predisposition to assume that people in such dire straights are responsible for it somehow. It isn't gross indifference as much as it is a mindset that anyone can change the world. Any kid can grow up to be president. If you work hard & save, you can be the next Bill Gates. We are reared on the idea you can control your own destiny. I think perhaps the average american is so indoctinated to the idea that you can do something about it, that we fail to note significant differences in situation between here and there.

Most Americans simply can't grasp the kind of desperate povery that exists in these countries. We live in a county where the poor drive their own cars to a protest rally or to the supermarket to purchase macaroni and cheese dinners. Starving to death is a thing so forign a concept that we can't relate.

Also, we, as a country don't realize that if there is no chance to advance in these countries. In America there are public schools, some better that others, but every child gets at least a shot at an education and a chance to better themselves. Those that live in more prosperous areas have a better chance but we all have at least some chance. So it is hard for us to realize that kids in these countries have no chance. There is no public education, no hospitals, libraries... nothing. It is diffacult, if not impossible, to move up in society if you have no education.

Joe Stalin once remarked that one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is just a statistic. It's a very cynical statement, but one I think that is very true on a psycological level. 10000 death's a day of starvation in Shangrala, is likely to make less impression upon most of us, than the death of one aide worker might. Suzy somebody from east nowhere Tennessee, who was spending her summer in Shangrala helping the poor and was accidnetally gored to death by a water buffalo is someone we can identify with. We almost all know a Suzy Somebody, that person who felt a driving need to help no matter what. Her death is poignant. 10000 deaths is almost impossible to grasp.

I also read somewhere, (can't remember where) that if you kill one person, you're a murderer. If you kill a million, you're a politician.

It seems to me that the government and the media continue to treat all of these atrocities as 'internal' issues or civil wars and therefor we shouldn't intervene. Just a convienent excuse to avoid having to do anything about it.

 

[cantdog]

Have another look: Fun in the Sun

cantdog

 

[Guest]

So many wise and compassionate words in this thread. I thank you all.

Green Gem, you were so right to mention Zimbabwe. I could add more thoughts on Robert Mugabe, but it would turn into a personal rant.

Lisa, no need to apologise. We all get into heated debates from time to time. As for your question about how the aid will get through, channels through to Darfur are being secured as I type. There will be no fighting involved, the Sudanese Government has agreed to see safe passage of the aid. That was the last I heard, anyway.

Colly, I do understand what you were saying. It does go part of the way to explain the attitude of the general public in the US. I do find it hard to accept, though, but that doesn't mean I believe the vast majority of those in the US (and any other country for that matter) to be bad, cold-hearted people.

Perdita, yes, your reaction and views are often my own. It almost seems as if those in Africa, Mexico and so on are seen as second class citizens of the world.

Dr. Mab., thank you. Some very wise and heart-felt words there. I couldn't agree more, with everything you said. I think the figures are somewhere in the quite terrifying range of 35 million people in sub-Sahara Africa expected to die from AIDS before 2010. Those countries are becoming nations of the young and the old. Grandparents are bringing up the babies.

Lou

 

[Guest]

Have another look: Fun in the Sun

I read that already, Cant, but it did not shock me. I recall the Rwandan nuns at a girls school who helped with the massacre of their charges. P.

 

[mismused]

Additional on the Sudan

The paper reports that the Arabic militias, I suppose you'd call them, are the ones that are supposed to be the driving force behind the mass displacements. To make matters worse, the women are said to be being raped while the rapists sing.

The problems there have been many, and as ignored as these most likely will be. Why do I say that? The Sudan is one of the main countries where the practice of "clitoridectomy" is practiced, and on both Christian and Muslim women.

Their own women perform this heinous act on their own young girls, whether it is wanted or not. Even 50% of women who are university graduates have had some form of this mutilation performed on them.

As far back as 1983 it was reported that over 80% of women had type III which is:

"...the excision (removal) of part or all of the extrenal gneitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening, leaving a very small opening about the size of a matchstick, to allow the flow of urine and menstrual blood. The girl or woman's legs are generally bound together from the hip to the ankle so she remains immobile for approximately 40 days. (depending on who performs the procedure) to allow for the formation ofscar tissue."

This is all so that they won't feel any pleasure from sex.

Enjoy your freedom of this place, and cry for those who are ignorant of what is possible. Ending the ignorance is the only way to stop the atrocities. Food, I guarantee it, will be stolen by those with rifles just as they did in other countries in Africa and elsewhere. Wish it could be otherwise.

mismused

 

[Guest]

Here are some on-line headlines for international news, I've not posted those from the SF Chron as there was nothing on the Sudan. The NYT does have an Africa section (url below), but it's not in any lead article. - Perdita

Washington Post - WORLD
• Mullah Omar Relative Captured
• Ukraine Mine Blast Kills 31; 5 Missing
• Chirac Condemns Sharon for Remarks
• Interactive Multimedia: Defining Israel's Barrier

NYT International Section
Iraqi Militants Release Hostage After Philippines Withdraws
China Releases Surgeon Who Exposed SARS Coverup
Palestinian Premier Says He Is Running 'Caretaker Government'
Pope Names Austrian Bishop to Investigate Seminary Scandal

NYTimes: Africa

 

[Colleen Thomas]

So many wise and compassionate words in this thread. I thank you all.

Green Gem, you were so right to mention Zimbabwe. I could add more thoughts on Robert Mugabe, but it would turn into a personal rant.

Lisa, no need to apologise. We all get into heated debates from time to time. As for your question about how the aid will get through, channels through to Darfur are being secured as I type. There will be no fighting involved, the Sudanese Government has agreed to see safe passage of the aid. That was the last I heard, anyway.

Colly, I do understand what you were saying. It does go part of the way to explain the attitude of the general public in the US. I do find it hard to accept, though, but that doesn't mean I believe the vast majority of those in the US (and any other country for that matter) to be bad, cold-hearted people.

Perdita, yes, your reaction and views are often my own. It almost seems as if those in Africa, Mexico and so on are seen as second class citizens of the world.

Dr. Mab., thank you. Some very wise and heart-felt words there. I couldn't agree more, with everything you said. I think the figures are somewhere in the quite terrifying range of 35 million people in sub-Sahara Africa expected to die from AIDS before 2010. Those countries are becoming nations of the young and the old. Grandparents are bringing up the babies.

Lou

My explanation works to a point. The sad fact is I think it works only to the point Dita's picks up at. Would we allow a civil war in Western Eurpoe to claim the lives of untold millions of civilians? I don't think we would.

It's painful to admit that racial biase still colors the thoughts and actions; not only of our politicians, but of our neighbors and even ourselves. I suppose things will not change until those of us in the majority, make that painful admission and dedicate ourselves to actively fighting it.

I still think much of what I said is also true, but I would be less than honest with myself if I didn't admit that biase plays a significant part too.

-Colly

 

[Lisa Denton]

So many wise and compassionate words in this thread. I thank you all.

Green Gem, you were so right to mention Zimbabwe. I could add more thoughts on Robert Mugabe, but it would turn into a personal rant.

Lisa, no need to apologise. We all get into heated debates from time to time. As for your question about how the aid will get through, channels through to Darfur are being secured as I type. There will be no fighting involved, the Sudanese Government has agreed to see safe passage of the aid. That was the last I heard, anyway.

Colly, I do understand what you were saying. It does go part of the way to explain the attitude of the general public in the US. I do find it hard to accept, though, but that doesn't mean I believe the vast majority of those in the US (and any other country for that matter) to be bad, cold-hearted people.

Perdita, yes, your reaction and views are often my own. It almost seems as if those in Africa, Mexico and so on are seen as second class citizens of the world.

Dr. Mab., thank you. Some very wise and heart-felt words there. I couldn't agree more, with everything you said. I think the figures are somewhere in the quite terrifying range of 35 million people in sub-Sahara Africa expected to die from AIDS before 2010. Those countries are becoming nations of the young and the old. Grandparents are bringing up the babies.

Lou

Thanks for the kind words directed at me Lou, I'm still making lots of mistakes posting but losing my temper doesn't happen much anymore.
I do hope the Sudanese government can follow-up on the promise to get the aid through. My fears that the militias fighting them will not allow that to happen remain, though I do wish I am proved wrong.
Another lesson I have recently learned "Please let me be proved wrong."

 

[Guest]

My explanation works to a point. The sad fact is I think it works only to the point Dita's picks up at. ... I would be less than honest with myself if I didn't admit that biase plays a significant part too.

Colly, bless your heart you conservative southern white dyke, you. P.

 

[shereads]

It saddens me to post such a depressing thread, but I am, for two main reasons.

You should be proud of yourself for posting it. Thank you.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly, bless your heart you conservative southern white dyke, you. P.

Bless you for mentioning something that never crossed my mind. Overt racism is ugly, brutish and sometimes violent, but its magnitude of danger pales in comparrison to the almost casual subconcious kind. It's that kind that the real fight must always be against.

I appreciate you pointing out I was failing in my own personal fight against that second and more dangerous kind.

*HUGS*

-Colly

 

[shereads]

We contribute regularly to the Red Cross, and United Way through direct deductions from my husband's paycheck. But what we can give is a drop in the bucket.

Most charities consist of drops in the bucket, until there are enough of them to draw the attention of benefactors looking for worthwhile causes. Giving to a charity that's able to document the effectiveness of its spending, like Red Cross or World Ark, has a value beyond the dollars you're able to give.