Submissives Rights (not the usual list)

[lark sparrow]

Though the lifestyle maintains a level of power exchange and in doing so, one may give up their freedoms or (rights) as a part of the service. We as human beings still maintain the right to humanity and dignity even in service. Some one wrote the following list of rights on behalf of the submissive but found that many apply just as much for the Dominant as the submissive so consider that as you read. And they wrote;

I have the right...

to set limits, and expect them to be respected.

to adjust these limits at any time, with notice to you.

to expect you to push them, to force me to create new limits & boundaries.

to expect you to be concerned about time we spend apart, but I expect you to understand that I am a person, separate from you, and thus having problems and situations in my life that I will not need your help with.

I have the right to expect you will respect me for my independence and not criticize me for it.

to ask you for help, should I need it.

to be trusted, providing I have earned it.

to expect you to believe I am an intelligent, caring and loyal person.

to ask things of you, and have you listen to my requests.

to ask for your attention, without having to misbehave to get it.

to ask you to contribute as much to this relationship as I do. As long as my requests are submitted respectfully, I expect you to consider them as you would from any friend or colleague.

to question your motives, should you deny my requests, as long as I do so with the proper respect.

to expect you to administer your punishment with care and caution.

to use my safe words at any point, should I feel them necessary.

to get up and walk away from a scene if you have crossed the line.

to expect you to respect my decisions, and not think less of me, or abandon me for them.

to speak up if I feel our relationship is not giving me what I need.

to tell you what I need, in a respectful manner.

to expect you to understand my reasons for doing so, and to expect you to listen with an open mind.

to walk away from the relationship if we cannot come to a common ground on these issues.

to expect tenderness, love and understanding after a scene is completed, should it be what I desire.

to ask you for that tenderness if I've had a bad day, or if I just feel the need for closeness. I understand that there will be times when you and I will disagree about this, when you will want a scene, and I will not. I have the right to call for a talk about this, and to expect you to listen to and consider my reasoning. I expect you to have the final word, but I expect you to wholeheartedly consider my feelings, whatever they happen to be.

to expect our relationship to progress, for trust to continually be renewed, for our souls to be as close as our bodies are.

to tell you if I need more from you, and I expect you to respect my decisions about what I want and need. I expect you to want the relationship to progress, unless decided otherwise before hand. I expect you to understand that deep trust often breeds love, and I expect you not to repel me if I tell you that I love you. For, my Master, I will love you, should our relationship move ahead, should our trust continue to grow.

to expect you to tell me, at any point, if you do not feel you can return those feelings, so that I may decide what I want and need. For it is your pleasure that adds to my own, makes it real. And mine, that adds to yours.

http://www.bdsmeroticism.com/main.html

 

[lovetoread]

Wow...tis something to think about isnt it?

Most of whats written is what one should expect from any relationship, be it this kind or not.

But then again I obviously cant seem to do it right myself, so who am I to comment?

 

[WriterDom]

I expect you to understand that deep trust often breeds love, and I expect you not to repel me if I tell you that I love you. For, my Master, I will love you, should our relationship move ahead, should our trust continue to grow.

Is it possible for a woman to have a Master she does not love? Outside of the chatroom, shake and bake, instant cyber collar?

 

[Kirabeth]

QUOTE:

____________________________________________________

Originally posted by WriterDom
Is it possible for a woman to have a Master she does not love? Outside of the chatroom, shake and bake, instant cyber collar?
____________________________________________________


Is it then possible for a Man or a Woman to be a Master or a Mistress to another man or woman they in turn do not love? yes I know there are professional Mistresses and maybe a few professional Master's who get paid to dominate another but in any long term relastionship of any kind including and especially one of this nature bases in this lifestyle is it possible to have a sub that one does not love and care for.

 

[lovetoread]

Re: Re: Submissives Rights (not the usual list)

Is it possible for a woman to have a Master she does not love? Outside of the chatroom, shake and bake, instant cyber collar?

Are you talking about strangers or friends?

I think there could be a deep respect without love.

 

[Caitlynne]

Originally posted by WriterDom
Is it possible for a woman to have a Master she does not love? Outside of the chatroom, shake and bake, instant cyber collar?

I think in order to answer this we need to define "love" here. Is it the romantic/emotional/eros kind of love OR are we talking about the agape/unconditional acceptance/respect kind of love? These two can exist together of course, but they can also exist independently of each other.

I don't see how trust can be attained without agape. Mutual respect and acceptance seem to be necessary (IMHO) in order to achieve the level of trust necessary to submit completely. Regardless of a woman's desire to submit, the level of trust she has in her Dom will dictate her willingness to surrender her power.

Agape can, over a period of time, become more emotionally centered.

I can however see that a woman can have a Master without eros.

Although the line is blurred more often than not.

~ Cait

 

[lark sparrow]

Wow...tis something to think about isnt it?

Most of whats written is what one should expect from any relationship, be it this kind or not.

But then again I obviously cant seem to do it right myself, so who am I to comment?

Yes, I agree, it could be applied to most relationships. I think it can often be challenging, perhaps particularly when new, for a submissive to be responsible for her/his own feelings in submitting to another. Dominants still aren't mind readers or infallible, though they can have incredible instincts and insights that can make it seem so lol.

Everyone has relationships that fail for one reason or another - you are certainly not alone there! Even if you get all the D/s stuff right, you still have to find the right person, and vice versa. It's probably little help... but I always remind myself that feelings and situations, especially bad ones, are truly temporary.

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: Re: Submissives Rights (not the usual list)

Is it possible for a woman to have a Master she does not love? Outside of the chatroom, shake and bake, instant cyber collar?

Possible, but not probable?

 

[Pure]

Hmmm....


Seems like a basic "Bill of Rights" ... for children.**

With a Leo Buscaglia flavor.

The main thing that doesn't fit is the part about the Dom/me leaving.

Regards,

J.

** No kidding, there are some very nice things there, that every kid should have--like kindly attention, reasonable punishments, for example. Wish I'd had that... but then maybe I would be inclined to SM!

 

[rosco rathbone]

Hm. "....Set limits and expect them to be respected.....and also for You to push them..." Respect them or push them, which is it?

How about "set limits; and expect my voice and my fears to be heard as I "set the limits", then-as I trust you, for I wouldn't be hanging around you otherwise-do as you see fit with my a$$"

Note: this applies to ideal relationships only, all others pay cash.

 

[lark sparrow]

Hmmm....


Seems like a basic "Bill of Rights" ... for children.**

With a Leo Buscaglia flavor.

The main thing that doesn't fit is the part about the Dom/me leaving.

Regards,

J.

** No kidding, there are some very nice things there, that every kid should have--like kindly attention, reasonable punishments, for example. Wish I'd had that... but then maybe I would be inclined to SM!

lol funny description. There is a bit of a "childish" and "feel good" aspect to it, but I think the sad truth is that alot of people don't feel they have/deserve these rights in their relationships should they want them. Granted, I find other "voices" more amusing, "gritty" and "sophisticated" than this particular one, but I think it still holds some truth.

PS I had those things as a kid and I still came out lesbian and a masochistic submissive - go figure

 

[lark sparrow]

Hm. "....Set limits and expect them to be respected.....and also for You to push them..." Respect them or push them, which is it?

How about "set limits; and expect my voice and my fears to be heard as I "set the limits", then-as I trust you, for I wouldn't be hanging around you otherwise-do as you see fit with my a$$"

Note: this applies to ideal relationships only, all others pay cash.

lol I definitely know this is also not your type of thread.

But there are hard limits and soft limits or boundaries. For instance; hard limit: you cannot ask me to kill anyone, or kill me. You cannot come to my work and publicly humilate me to the point of making me lose my job and financial resources. Yes, it's great to feel all powerful, but there are limits. I don't think these need to be pushed, do they? Soft limit: It really embarrasses me when you ... (insert whatever) and makes me very uncomfortable and unsure. This activity scares me, and I don't know if I am ready yet. Etc.

Perhaps a submissive who ascribed to these thoughts would not be for you, but c'mon, are they bad things? A sense of self and your own power - how can one give it away until you have it?

 

[NemoAlia]

lark sparrow

Although I've never had "whatever" inserted into me, I can definitely see the potential for embarrassment. It sounds like you're communicating your feelings well, though, congrats!

*tee hee*

Anyhow, nice thread!

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: lark sparrow

Although I've never had "whatever" inserted into me, I can definitely see the potential for embarrassment. It sounds like you're communicating your feelings well, though, congrats!

*tee hee*

Anyhow, nice thread!

LOL now that has kinky potential. I'm picturing a blindfold and a guessing game.

 

[Pure]

Lark Sp. quoting from bdsmeroticism list of alleged sub rights:

to set limits, and expect them to be respected.

to adjust these limits at any time, with notice to you.

to expect you to push them, to force me to create new limits & boundaries.

to expect you to be concerned about time we spend apart, but I expect you to understand that I am a person, separate from you, and thus having problems and situations in my life that I will not need your help with.

I have the right to expect you will respect me for my independence and not criticize me for it.

to ask you for help, should I need it. [etc., 19 more items]
===========

It seems to me that** every lover who's got a lot of 'childlike' qualities might want and expect these from his or her partner.

I someone wants these (and doesn't have them), imho, they should take out an ad in personals, of the standard type: for the 'knight in shining armour' or 'woman of my dreams' who is especially sensitive, good at communication and wants to do a lot of it. There's nothing, except maybe the ref. to punishment that would make such a list (or ad) esp. suited to a bdsm personals forum or online publication.

The list, by my count, has 25 items.

Let me turn it back to you, Which of the 25 should be modified or dropped--which 'right' is sacrificed, or added-- if any, in going into a serious bdsm (of mistress/slave) relationship? To make it more concrete, complete some sentences like the following:

"If I were your lover I'd expect ..... but since I'm your sub (or slave) I expect (instead) ....

Best,
J.

**besides a child

 

[lark sparrow]

Pure.

LOL All I can say is that the things you argue for and against are very interesting - carry on. I choose my own arguments too!

 

[~Dream~]

Though the lifestyle maintains a level of power exchange and in doing so, one may give up their freedoms or (rights) as a part of the service. We as human beings still maintain the right to humanity and dignity even in service. Some one wrote the following list of rights on behalf of the submissive but found that many apply just as much for the Dominant as the submissive so consider that as you read. And they wrote;

I have the right...

to set limits, and expect them to be respected.

to adjust these limits at any time, with notice to you.

to expect you to push them, to force me to create new limits & boundaries.

to expect you to be concerned about time we spend apart, but I expect you to understand that I am a person, separate from you, and thus having problems and situations in my life that I will not need your help with.

I have the right to expect you will respect me for my independence and not criticize me for it.

to ask you for help, should I need it.

to be trusted, providing I have earned it.

to expect you to believe I am an intelligent, caring and loyal person.

to ask things of you, and have you listen to my requests.

to ask for your attention, without having to misbehave to get it.

to ask you to contribute as much to this relationship as I do. As long as my requests are submitted respectfully, I expect you to consider them as you would from any friend or colleague.

to question your motives, should you deny my requests, as long as I do so with the proper respect.

to expect you to administer your punishment with care and caution.

to use my safe words at any point, should I feel them necessary.

to get up and walk away from a scene if you have crossed the line.

to expect you to respect my decisions, and not think less of me, or abandon me for them.

to speak up if I feel our relationship is not giving me what I need.

to tell you what I need, in a respectful manner.

to expect you to understand my reasons for doing so, and to expect you to listen with an open mind.

to walk away from the relationship if we cannot come to a common ground on these issues.

to expect tenderness, love and understanding after a scene is completed, should it be what I desire.

to ask you for that tenderness if I've had a bad day, or if I just feel the need for closeness. I understand that there will be times when you and I will disagree about this, when you will want a scene, and I will not. I have the right to call for a talk about this, and to expect you to listen to and consider my reasoning. I expect you to have the final word, but I expect you to wholeheartedly consider my feelings, whatever they happen to be.

to expect our relationship to progress, for trust to continually be renewed, for our souls to be as close as our bodies are.

to tell you if I need more from you, and I expect you to respect my decisions about what I want and need. I expect you to want the relationship to progress, unless decided otherwise before hand. I expect you to understand that deep trust often breeds love, and I expect you not to repel me if I tell you that I love you. For, my Master, I will love you, should our relationship move ahead, should our trust continue to grow.

to expect you to tell me, at any point, if you do not feel you can return those feelings, so that I may decide what I want and need. For it is your pleasure that adds to my own, makes it real. And mine, that adds to yours.

http://www.bdsmeroticism.com/main.html

______________

too bad i didnt know about this LIST long ago,,

 

[A Desert Rose]

Too bad you didn't listen and take to heart the advice that was given to you. None of this is new information, Dream.

 

[lark sparrow]

Disclaimer:

This is a different perspective on submissive's (note submissive, not slave) rights. Simply a list, differing than the normal one posted on most every BDSM website. I may or may not live them. I did not write them, though if you take issue with them the website is clearly listed. Perhaps the author will change them for you to reflect your own opinions and beliefs.

Considering the need for advice that has been brought to this forum by confused, new submissives recently it seemed a perspective some might find value in.

It's not meant to change the world or challenge your way of life. Though feel free to use it for furthering personal motives, and forgo any small amount of insight it may hold.

 

[Pure]

Hi LS,

You said,

This is a different perspective on submissive's (note submissive, not slave) rights. Simply a list, differing than the normal one posted on most every BDSM website.

I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be; those things are floating around literotica from a number of the 'gentle' bdsm folks, for example, zipman. Hecate's site and writings are extremely close, imho.

Considering the need for advice that has been brought to this forum by confused, new submissives recently it seemed a perspective some might find value in.

There's value in seeing various opinions. Prospective subs might also need to know that all bdsm folks are not gentle Esalen, Buscaglia and Maslow types.

It's not meant to change the world or challenge your way of life. Though feel free to use it for furthering personal motives, and forgo any small amount of insight it may hold.

All the stuff you dig up is interesting and worth looking at. This particular list is not unlike a 100 self help books on assertiveness and healthy relationships: everyone's right to respect. If that's what a person needs, great. Personally; I see some 'insight'; possibly it's of some relevance to some bdsm relationships, because there are some pretty shakey, needy and damaged individuals who might be inclined to become subs, hoping to be respected and made whole by a benevolent Daddy or Mommy dom/me.

Unfortunately, as you know, looking to partners for therapy and 'putting oneself together' is pretty dicey in general--aside from bdsm partnerships; one's choice of partner will quite often ADD to one's problems. Humans being what they are, some partners will 'take advantage' of any such situation.

By all means, apart from the 25 points, everyone should find a few folk who listen attentively, and who care: they're known as friends and are worth their weight in gold.

 

[lark sparrow]

Hi LS,

You said,

This is a different perspective on submissive's (note submissive, not slave) rights. Simply a list, differing than the normal one posted on most every BDSM website.

I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be; those things are floating around literotica from a number of the 'gentle' bdsm folks, for example, zipman. Hecate's site and writings are extremely close, imho.

**lol your humble opinion? Smiles... when I see it I will respond to it in kind, Pure. I find many of your arguments written from an extreme POV that I'm not even sure you believe, and seem couched in "fact", therefore writing off others POV. I've never seen this list on lit. If you have, feel free to point out the exact list to me.

Considering the need for advice that has been brought to this forum by confused, new submissives recently it seemed a perspective some might find value in.

There's value in seeing various opinions. Prospective subs might also need to know that all bdsm folks are not gentle Esalen, Buscaglia and Maslow types.

**And there are plenty of other perspectives, in fact I personally have brought up more of those than these. And I think it is a disservice to automatically try to tear this down for all, and tell anyone who might appreciate it that they are childish, perhaps need therapy, and should look elsewhere. I'm not sure what your issue is frankly, because it's clearly about submissives, and those who wish much communication. How does this hurt you personally, Pure? Why must anyone just starting in BDSM confused be ridiculed because they may find insight here?

It's not meant to change the world or challenge your way of life. Though feel free to use it for furthering personal motives, and forgo any small amount of insight it may hold.

All the stuff you dig up is interesting and worth looking at. This particular list is not unlike a 100 self help books on assertiveness and healthy relationships: everyone's right to respect. If that's what a person needs, great. Personally; I see some 'insight'; possibly it's of some relevance to some bdsm relationships, because there are some pretty shakey, needy and damaged individuals who might be inclined to become subs, hoping to be respected and made whole by a benevolent Daddy or Mommy dom/me.

**Well that's a great reason to discount this idea and keep them on more shakey ground, Pure. I'm beginning to think that shakey ground is your terra firma. Congratulations in whatever war you think you are fighting. It's getting old for me personally, and I tire of debating you. Would it be too much trouble to speak in personal terms, rather then attempting to wipe out whole segments of people with one sweeping statement stated as an absolute?

Unfortunately, as you know, looking to partners for therapy and 'putting oneself together' is pretty dicey in general--aside from bdsm partnerships; one's choice of partner will quite often ADD to one's problems. Humans being what they are, some partners will 'take advantage' of any such situation.

**If you are bored by the topic, then why not take you own advice and not respond. If you have an "eww" response. again, why not take your own advice??

By all means, apart from the 25 points, everyone should find a few folk who listen attentively, and who care: they're known as friends and are worth their weight in gold. [/B]

I do hope that those who find value in these words will consider sources, especially their own inner sources.

 

[lark sparrow]

Disclaimer:

I may or may not live them. I did not write them, though if you take issue with them the website is clearly listed. Perhaps the author will change them for you to reflect your own opinions and beliefs.

It's not meant to change the world or challenge your way of life. Though feel free to use it for furthering personal motives, and forgo any small amount of insight it may hold.

You forgot these parts in your response, Pure. They still stand.