Submissives in control

[barefootgirl69]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

I think that is a very interesting, if slightly skewed take on my approach to D/s. And it is written backwards.

I firmly believe that the sub has all the power in a D/s relationship. I don't think a D/s relationship can thrive or even survive otherwise.

How much power the sub willingly surrenders determines how the relationship works.

Above, the description is of a female Dominant choosing to pleasure her sub by kneeling and giving oral. The act of kneeling is not submissive (it is physics: if you like giving oral pleasure, you're gonna need to get down there). Having a woman "lower her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes" is not necessarily a submissive act on the part of the receiver. It is a position I enjoy my sub in from time to time. Some inexperienced wannabes go so far as to say that a Dominant should never stoop to give oral. Well, fuck you Mr. Gray. I like it.

The submission comes from the sub giving the Dom(me) the power to tell them how they will receive pleasure and when / if to cum. It also means that the Dom(me) will look out for the sub's wellbeing through the session and after.

That last line, "This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her" is a little off too. You are there to please each other, just like in a Vanilla exchange.

Kinky folks just have more fun.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

Some people see certain actions as inherently submissive. I would even say that most of us do sort in some way, what we would be able to do and still frame it as dominant/submissive. When you do the sorting for others, it will usually grate as it does in what you quoted. The poster may even see women as inherently submissive. Hard to tell from the post.

As for who has the power in a relationship…
Consent can be revoked by any partner. Bottom line in any relationship (or any negotiation actually) is always going to be willingness to walk away. Some see that as the same as loving less, but I don’t think it has to be really.

To me it just reads as the kind of romantic notions people sometimes post as if they are profound truths.

 

[wicked woman]

This sounds like a romanticized, fictional account of someone's ideal. It has nothing to do with my reality for a D/s relationship. Doesn't even hit the basics.

 

[Goldenfinger]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

I call it leading from the bottom.

 

[Acktion]

Different strokes for different folks. And I'd be the last person to critique anyone for how they play with their partner(s) as long as everyone actually involved is onboard with whatever they are doing and walk away under their own power when the fun is done. If the two people described think she is being submissive, then it's not my place to argue since I wasn't invited. If they think she is being Domme, then I can't really argue with that from my bystander position either.

A long-running bone of contention (heh heh, I said bone) between my own behaviors and the way most far less kinked do things is in the pursuit of the female by the male. For me, personally, pursuit just doesn't work and hasn't since early on when I observed a rather attractive coed sitting on a barstool like a throne and ignoring a bunch of boys baying around her. Rather than belittle myself to fawn over her like a hound, I ignored her in return and just focused on existing and having a good time, which is what I was there for after all.

I was as surprised as anybody when Kate got up off her barstool and made her way through the pack that had her treed to join me on the dance floor. And that we were together for two months before she decided our relationship was too big a distraction from her plan for medical school. It hadn't been slowing me down carrying twenty-four hours at school, working two forty-hour per week jobs, and a thirty-hour per week internship, but if it was too much distraction from her studies, I was all for her moving on.

But, it worked for me. Rather than presenting myself before her (whichever "her" we might be discussing), let her approach and present herself to me.

And I catch a whole lot of shit from both sides of the slash and those more vanilla than beans that isn't how it's supposed to be. That as a man, and definitely as a Dom, I'm supposed to get off my lazy ass and go out and hunt down my prey.

Erm, no. Setting aside for a moment my distaste for the term "prey" even as something of a Primal... From my perspective, I hold more power if she comes and kneels before me than having to jump through hoops to gain some small attention from someone else in the dog show. Not to mention that it is just not in my nature to bend to what someone else thinks I should be doing over the way I think I should be doing it.

Not that I think any less of the guys who live for the thrill of the chase, hunting down their prey. Or the gals that enjoy being able to select which one baying at their barstool is worthy. It's all about what works between the people actually involved.

In the case of bfg's OP, the blowjob.

Now, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with blowjobs. Primarily that I love the thought of them so much that I hate in practical terms not being wired passive enough to let it go on for long enough before flipping them over and taking them in just about every other way that wasn't listed as a limit. Granted, that typically happens about the time the overwhelming majority have neck fatigue, but still.

On the other hand, I don't think my lover taking me in her mouth is any more inherently submissive than my crawling between her thighs and devouring her sweet treasure, either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not wired to get much out of skull fucking someone who isn't obviously enjoying it either. If she's not just as obviously turned on tied spread eagle on her back with her throat bulging, then there's a whole lot of other shit I could be doing to... with... and for her.

Just one more way I'm wired weirdly, I suppose, judging from the number of contentious responses I've garnered over the decades. I tend to view orgasm as the ultimate badge of surrender.

***shrug*** I understand the psychological underpinnings of orgasm denial very well, thank you. And I'm pretty darn good at it when I choose to edge them for a while to build up to a bigger climax. I'm not about to stick my oar in if that's how someone else wants to play and all are okay with it.

But, quite frankly, I find it difficult to allow myself to cum for her at any point prior to drawing out her twenty-second orgasm. Given my druthers, she's going to have three before my pants ever come off. And the closer I get coaxed to mine, the harder I'm going to push her to give me another of hers, and another, and another.

And many over the years (that haven't experienced it first hand) have attempted to mislabel me as a submissive mindset since on the surface it appears that my drive is much more for her pleasure than mine.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I drive her through so many orgasms not because she will enjoy them. Quite frankly, I've lost quite a few lovers over the decades because it was too much for them. Even breaking a couple of previously self-described "nymphos." No, I do it because I need it. I need them to push their endurance and give me more than they previously thought possible. One orgasm? Anybody that pays attention to their lover more than their own selfish hedonism should be able to manage that. No, I need that last one that she thinks she is too wrung out to manage, when she believes that there is no pleasure left in what we are doing, when "horny" has been worn down to exhaustion and she just wants to be finished and snuggle down in my arms to sleep... only to have a hard, wracking orgasm that she didn't think possible be drawn from her as she gives me that last, complete, total and abject surrender.

But, I've drifted off the point. Or have I?

To return to bfg's blowjob... er, wait. That didn't come out right.

To return to the blowjob discussed in bfg's post, so incredibly much of the power exchange involved is purely psychological that only the people actually involved can say just whether it happens at all, and which way. Bondage and Discipline is easy. Who's getting tied up? SadoMasochism is easy. Who is having the sensations visited on them? But, D/s in oral? Not so easy to pigeonhole.

And it would be completely and utterly ridiculous of me to dictate that I'm somehow more Dominant or she is somehow more submissive or anything else. What works is what works. And trying to make something work that doesn't is just a way for everybody involved to end up sorry and sore.

But, for me personally, having her mouth wrapped around my cock no more makes me submissive than having her ride astride. Not when I've easily proven that I can wrap my vice-like grip around their wrists and fuck them just as hard bucking my hips two to two and a half feet up off the bed to cries of "that's not fair!"

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

Power dynamics in a D/s relationship can be complicated, and multi-layered.

A woman dropping to her knees and sucking a man's cock can look submissive, even feel submissive to the guy, but if she is talented and inclined that way, she may be totally digging on the power she is wielding over him.

After listening to women who think that way, I included that in one of my stories.

 

[sweettalk4u]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

Are the above actions being done at her Dom’s request or is the scene in general at his request? Is it sub/top night? Just kidding partly. Yes these are great ways a woman can take her man. Kinky and possibly leading to something else but not a D/s relationship

 

[Vitriolhack]

What a lovely thread and conversation piece that I have just discovered via the new “similar thread” feature of this chat app.

Sex is about power exchange, sometimes the perception of the person “in charge” of the act is just an illusion.

 

[Iwant2havefun]

I saw this posted on another lifestyle forum and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Opinions about this and how I should answer would be appreciated.

They say a when a woman drops to her knees in front of a man that she is submissive.

That is far from the truth.

When takes your shaft in her mouth and looks you in the eyes as she takes you deep then you know that she is going to take your soul.

As she pushes you on your back and straddles your face

Then looks down as she lowers her sweet neither lips on your tongue and Rides you till she comes

She owns you now

As she lays on her back and parts her thighs and beckons you to mount her and take her and make her come but she tells you not to release till she says

Now tell me who has the power now.

A woman will let you think that you have to power. In all actuality her submissiveness is only to show us men that when she looks you in the eyes you can feel you soul leave your body.

This is the greatest feeling as your release is to please her.

I couldn't agree more with this. When She takes my cock in her mouth, i am hers......completely, totally, without question. At that very minute, she is in control, and owns me.

 

[Erosfan]

I couldn't agree more with this. When She takes my cock in her mouth, i am hers......completely, totally, without question. At that very minute, she is in control, and owns me.

With me it isn't just her taking my cock in her mouth. It might be her hand. It might be in a risky place. When I am aroused she owns me completely. I was hers and she knew it.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Despite what the ancient Greeks and Romans thought, oral sex is not inherently submissive or dominant. It is stimulation of the sexual organs with the lips and tongue.

 

[Subsy]

Giving oral is always submissive for me. I love doing it…..for the sweet body twitches, moans, guttural gasps, the belly rising and falling in sync…..the orgasm is where I rise….where I accept praise like a symphony maestro….
the sperm and vaginal fluids are mine to savor…..with a smile….a giggle….so pleased with myself

 

[cocktaildress21]

I have a very simple view on this: the dom is in control right up until I decide he isn't. And let me be clear - I'm not in it for him. Well, or her as the case might be. If I'm not enjoying myself, it ends suddenly and definitely.

I think this is my main problem with doms: they fail to realise that if they don't concern themselves with what I want, I have no reason to ever meet them.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I have a very simple view on this: the dom is in control right up until I decide he isn't. And let me be clear - I'm not in it for him. Well, or her as the case might be. If I'm not enjoying myself, it ends suddenly and definitely.

I think this is my main problem with doms: they fail to realise that if they don't concern themselves with what I want, I have no reason to ever meet them.

Yeah well, that is why you need to look for people with wants and needs that are a good fit for yours.
Dom or Domne=/=kink dispenser.

 

[cocktaildress21]

Yeah well, that is why you need to look for people with wants and needs that are a good fit for yours.
Dom or Domne=/=kink dispenser.

100% off the mark. I have to say you either didn't read or didn't understand what I said.

 

[cocktaildress21]

Hey, or maybe I was super unclear. That's also possible.

Nah, I'm clear enough. But I'll elaborate: doms often feel that .. being the dom, they really don't need to concern themselves with any needs but their own.

What they need to do is realise that if they don't, I have no reason to meet them, and what they get is a nice, lonely wank.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I have a very simple view on this: the dom is in control right up until I decide he isn't. And let me be clear - I'm not in it for him. Well, or her as the case might be. If I'm not enjoying myself, it ends suddenly and definitely.

As this is probably not a desired outcome, it is a good idea to make sure that there is a good fit when it comes to expectations.

What they need to do is realise that if they don't, I have no reason to meet them, and what they get is a nice, lonely wank.

I just wanted to point out that it might not be about not realising (at least not in all or even most cases) but rather about the dominant doing their own sorting by their own wants and needs.
It’s sometimes forgotten that both sides get to pick and choose.

But I'll elaborate: doms often feel that .. being the dom, they really don't need to concern themselves with any needs but their own.

Now that you elaborated though:
They actually say that? Or is it how you interpret it?
I mean sure, a certain percentage of horny, clueless ones is to be expected, but it’s many/the most that you talk to, to the point that it’s your main problem with doms?
I guess the percentage of horny, clueless will vary depending on where you are looking and how you present yourself.
Being very clear about your needs and wants upfront might mean fewer but better matches?

 

[cocktaildress21]

As this is probably not a desired outcome, it is a good idea to make sure that there is a good fit when it comes to expectations.

I just wanted to point out that it might not be about not realising (at least not in all or even most cases) but rather about the dominant doing their own sorting by their own wants and needs.
It’s sometimes forgotten that both sides get to pick and choose.

Now that you elaborated though:
They actually say that? Or is it how you interpret it?
I mean sure, a certain percentage of horny, clueless ones is to be expected, but it’s many/the most that you talk to, to the point that it’s your main problem with doms?
I guess the percentage of horny, clueless will vary depending on where you are looking and how you present yourself.
Being very clear about your needs and wants upfront might mean fewer but better matches?

I think the doms in question would argue that - being dom, it's my job to decide what I want and like ... and being sub, it's your job to deliver, and like delivering, regardless of your own desires.

And yea, they're pretty vocal about it. I am talking about online dating though, which doesn't fully reflect .. not-online reality. But the numbers are not encouraging. I'd say that the asshole to potential ratio is worse than 100:1.

I've gone to clubs too, of course. You get .. more sane people away from screens and anonymity, but on the other hand I've not men an attractive male in a club. Or .. that isn't 100% true, but I've met no matches at least.

So I've been looking like, eh, ~4 years, and had 4 successful dates. And talked to literally hundreds online.

But anyways, I agree with you. Of course these dominants should not chose me - since I'm so unreasonable as to want my own desires met too. I'm just deeply convinced that all of these men are engaging I entirely unsuccessful online dating - and I'm sure they've never actually tried what they fantasise about, and they never will. I guess, honestly, I hope they don't. Because what they want is abuse.

 

[KatieDoes]

This might be a crazy idea, but what if Doms aren’t a monolith? What if subs aren’t? What if they’re just people, and like most people, great ones are rare and worth the effort to weed through the riffraff?

 

[IrisAlthea]

And yea, they're pretty vocal about it. I am talking about online dating though, which doesn't fully reflect .. not-online reality. But the numbers are not encouraging. I'd say that the asshole to potential ratio is worse than 100:1.

Ugh, I’m sorry. That sounds exhausting.

This might be a crazy idea, but what if Doms aren’t a monolith? What if subs aren’t? What if they’re just people, and like most people, great ones are rare and worth the effort to weed through the riffraff?

This is pretty much my personal experience - I’ve met them as people first and it built from there.
And yes, the great ones are rare.
There have been some who were great fun for a while too though, which isn’t so bad either.

 

[Lady2020]

IDK. I think subs have more control than most people think. A Dom think he's in control bc he is directing, but a sub is not some mindless robot. Although I'm sure there are plenty of Doms who want a mindless robot. At least on Lit.

 

[AlwaysInTrouble]

Nice summary Anja of the fundamentals of Power Exchange, with emphasis on Exchange.

 

[Littlebeau]

I call it leading from the bottom.

Agreed with it being a mutual thing until she does what she wants like after you told her ya didn’t want her to go fuck him an she takes the power back an goes anyway disregarding your feelings so you must submit to her or leave her.

 

[Littlebeau]

in my small-because-short experience oral sex is neither dominant nor submissive i've always felt submissive no matter if i was the mouth part or the genital part in it if in the dynamic the submissive ends up in full power and control i'd call it dominating from the bottom which i'm told can destroy the dynamic i've given Him the power to order me to do anything He likes or wants and the power to do with me as He pleases but both within our agreed limits and boundaries and yes either of U/us can end this with either Him deciding to give me the power back or me deciding to take the power back from Him with all the consequences it would have for O/our relationship for the foreseeable future i don't see this happening though

So true fine example of the power exchange. My submissive other has made me the more submissive one. Isn’t it true that you sweet women really always have the power an will use it whenever you feel you need it. My sweet Hotwife, whom by the way doesn’t like the word cuckold, always asked to fuck someone so I would feel I had the power but when she really needed her fb to give it to her better than I was doing her, she disregarded my feelings when I told her I didn’t want her going an went anyway.
Please in your wisdom, which I believe you have it, explain this for me!