Submission.. should it be done blindly?

[Chris_Xavier]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

 

[intothewoods]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

What? Why would anyone think a pyl should be expected to submit blindly? In any world.

 

[chelleb]

.............

 

[SubKekiLee]

I do not give my GIFT of submission to just anyone.... nor would I do it blindly to someone I didnt fully know or trust. NO matter what I have to feel safe and secure to submit to someone, Ie: My sir I had full trust in him before I submitted to him, to know he wouldnt know when I was serious and when I wasn't. He would know by bodys reactions...

 

[FurryFury]

What? Why would anyone think a pyl should be expected to submit blindly? In any world.

Exactly!

 

[graceanne]

Only if you want to end up dead or abused or totally fucked over. Nothing should be done blindly, you know 'look before you leap' and all that.

 

[Yang4yin]

No way! As others have said, that's simply asking for trouble.

 

[SweetGigi]

I don't think anyone should go into something new blindly. blind trust is (in my humble opinion) ignorant and a sign of weakness. Now before any one jumps my crap over this, I want to say that I have been known to be 'blind' in my trust and it got me hurt BADLY. I took my own life in my hands and allowed a perfect stranger into my world. I now know the folly in this action and keep a close eye on my trust and where I put it. As a result, I have become more wary and questioning of anyone I entertain as a PYL.

Unfortunately, I have allowed myself to swing the gambit in trust and I now find it hard to allow anyone into my heart. Even those who are trust worthy and deserving of my trust I find it difficult to extend faith. I hope to eventually learn to find the happy medium between these two poles and learn to trust the RIGHT man.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

I didn't even submit blindly to my husband of 14 years when we first started our formal D/s relationship 5 years ago, why would I think anyone else should do it?

A submissive is first and foremost responsible for their own personal safety, both physically and emotionally. If they aren't capable of taking care of themselves how in the world will they ever be able to take care of their Dominant's needs?

 

[catalina_francisco]

IMHO, anyone who expected it of another is not a PYL in the first place, but very likely an abuser with huge insecurities about their own place in the world...so no, the response would be much safer if it were to walk in the other direction as quickly as possible, and avoid all contact with that person in the future.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

Well yanno... people meet and think the chemistry is perfect and then do foolish things... like that time I put my finger in the light socket to make sure the electricity was turned on...

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

It shuldn't, but sometimes it is I guess?

When I was new to this life style and didn't know anything about D/s relationships I was willing to submit to anyone who was intrested to accept me as his submissive. Why? I dunno.

Guess after the fucked up relationship I lived in for years I just wanted belong to someone. I wanted someone for who I could care for and who would care for me back. I am simple, once I like someone it's natrual for me to act submissive towards him. I was always submissive to my husband and I was submissive to the Dom's I spoke with when I started discovering my submisive side.

You asking if that should be done blindly...

Of course it shouldn't, but you are not a sub right? From my experiences I can tell you that all the Dom's I spoke with wanted me to submit to them right from the first time we spoke LOL. And yes I was nerdy enough to do that. I craved to be owned and collared real bad and I let one Dom to collar me after a few days we spoke.

He was nice to me and for me it was the only thing I cared for so I accepted his collar yes. Few days later I figured out it wasn't so smart thing to do tho and I lefth him. I left him cuz I realised I dunno that person at all and things he wanted from me wasn't really possible for me to do. Some things he wanted from me I didn't like at all, we just didn't mesh well.

He never asked me where my limits are or what I like due to BDSM life style. He just wanted things from me, all of them just wanted something lol and trust me it's hard for a new sub to know whats right and whats bad. To know to what she should submit and to what she can say peacefuly NO.

I find it hard to say NO, guess thats why I stayed by the side of my ex for so long eventho he didn't treat me really nice way and cheated me so many times I don't even remeber names of all those bitches he had. I stayed anyways.. guess I am kinda nerdy in this lol.

I find it easy to be with one man and I am usualy staying even when it's not good for me to stay. My Sir calls it undying loaylity-I call it just being nerdy lol. I should have leave my ex years ago.. maybe I wouldn't be this insecure person with trust issues now. Always feeling like I should beg people around me to love me and do anything for them so they would love me. Geez thats so fucked up to feel/think this way. No wonder I have submit to few wannabe Dom's before I found out my curent Master, the one who really does care about me no matter what.

And eventho he's a great Dom I told him I would never accept him as my Dominant right now. When I split with my ex I knew I am not ready for another relationship, but I still thought I can be a good sub to him, now I am not that sure. I have some sick and totaly fucked up need of attention and I exactely know why. I have been ignored as a woman for years by my ex. Now I wanna be loved and cared for, for real, I need it, but sadly I am so fucked up that I can't really make a good parter and I really think I can't make a good sub either just right now.

I am happy with my curent Sir, but honestly he deserves something so much better than what I can provide right now. I always wanted wear his collar, I dreamt of it for months and wished it real bad, but right now if he offered me his collar I wouldn't accept it. And it doesn't matter how bad I want it. I know very well what I can offer to him as a submissive and sadly it's very less just right now.

For me to accept someones collar = very deep comitment. Comitment I am not taking lightly at all, I take this very seriously and I am not ready for it at all. I am not ready for a new relationship with man and I am not ready to be collared either. I enjoy what I have with my Sir, but that's all I can offer right now. Being online for him as much as possible and give him the best of me, all whats left. I cannot offer/give more and I won't let anyone think I am something I am not.

I love this poem

Warped & Twisted

Harsh words & violent blows
Hidden secrets nobody knows
Eyes are open, hands are fisted
Deep inside I'm warped & twisted
So many tricks & so many lies
Too many whens & too many whys
Nobody's special, nobody's gifted
I'm just me, warped & twisted
Sleeping awake & choking on a dream
Listening loudly to a silent scream
Call my mind, the number's unlisted
Lost in someone so warped & twisted
On my knees, alive but dead
Look at the invisible blood I've bled
I'm not gone, my mind has drifted
Don't expect much, I'm warped & twisted
Burnt out, wasted, empty, & hollow
Today's just yesterday's tomorrow
The sun died out, the ashes sifted
I'm still here, warped & twisted.​

As long as I feel this way I won't let anyone join my life or collar me, I just can't.


But back to your OP question..
I wouldn't accept someones collar blindly. Honestly atm I wouldn't accept anyones collar at all. It just wouldn't be right, thats why.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I submitted to the first PYL who offered to collar me. Or more correctly I offered my submission to the first PYL who I knew was a PYL. However, we already were in a relationship for 5 months before I made the offer.

For me personally I can't imagine submitting to someone who I didn't get to know on a friendship level first, but that's just me and I am in my first and hopefully only D/s relationship so what do I know.

 

[nh23]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

I have to admit, I know very little about Gor. I've never even read the books, but I can't imagine even in that dynamic why someone would submit blindly. IMO that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just because I'm a submissive doesn't mean I'm bound by any jackass that wants to call himself a Dom. Doing things blindly is more than likely to lead to a lot of trouble. Hell even going in knowing what you think you need to know can lead to bad things, so I can't imagine going in without a question. But, then again I have trust issues, so maybe I'm not the best one to answer this.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I have a question; should a pyl be expected to submit blindly to the first PYL that wants to collar him or her?

I would expect maybe that in the Gorean world that would be the way of it w/o question but what about the non-Gorean world?

you would need to add more specifics here. how long have they known each other....developing a relationship for how long?

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[nh23]

*****

I agree with you there. I myself don't think submission is a gift either. *shrugs*

 

[the captians wench]

The only place where it would be expected by any sain person in the Gorean world, to my knowledge, would be in online rpgs. I have never heard of anyone expecting submission upon first sight.

Now if you add in the factors mentioned, then maybe, but then the people aren't strangers as you seem to want to project.

 

[BiBunny]

I agree with you there. I myself don't think submission is a gift either. *shrugs*

Me neither.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Well yanno... people meet and think the chemistry is perfect and then do foolish things... like that time I put my finger in the light socket to make sure the electricity was turned on...

I agree that sometimes the chemistry for a relationship is just right from the beginning. My husband and I set our wedding date after our 3rd date (the date was 5 yrs later, but we knew we were meant for each other right from the first date) But with submission, in my mind, I would need to know someone even better than to just trust chemistry. I never vowed to obey in my marriage vows. I did when I was collared.

 

[Netzach]

As a service oriented Domme at least some of the time I must dissent.

If someone says "I really want to submit to you" and I don't necessarily know them inside and out but I know they're not an axe murderer and they have reason to believe the same, when they get there I do - oh noes - expect them to submit. Maybe to a few things not explicitly talked to death. With safewords, and with some common sense on both sides. But I do not expect them to stomp off like babies because they wanted to come over and dust my shades in panties and I handed them a pile of papers to file and told them to do it in their jeans. Crazy shit, I know.

I need to like and trust someone or at least have no fears from and not actively be disgusted by someone, but I really don't need a life story nor do I think they need to love me to value the opportunity to do what I say and not have the next scripted move in place.

I have no time to play my way into getting people to trust me with minor things. This is why I like to sit down and have a few coffees, because I think if you have burning questions that's the time to deal with them. Not by drawing up a million limits for the Domme to have to jump through like flaming hoops to gain your trust. Major landmine stuff, sure.

I think a lot of submissives are horrified to actually be put to ANY kind of unscripted litmus test on early dates, whereas a lot of D's are tired of endless footsie and games and have them for a reason. Screening early does not make me a giant dick. If it bums you out that I made you open the taxi door in the cold it's REALLY going to piss you off when I expect you to do most other things, so buh bye.

As I see it, a submissive's comfort levels in serving me are THEIRS to protect, they know them, I do not, I am not psychic, I am not there for their benefit and amusement.

I am willing to sit and talk to someone till the cows come home, peer-to-peer, tete a tete and gain knowledge confidence and friendship with someone - I love that part. The more I know the better it is - BUT I can also do without it - thing is when you say you are ready, be ready. Whether you don't think you need to know me or do, I really don't have a strong judgement either way, just don't show up and pull the "I don't like this no faiiiiir" maneuver.

I will say that in my professional days I did enjoy service and submission, the real stuff, in those limited hours with a lot more men than you'd guess. Men who were willing to trust me based on a small reputation and my own self-presentation with their person. They were usually very experienced. They had usually done it all and some. And they had usually come to the conclusion that the only times it was great was when they were there for the Domme and in her hands - the payment more about buying your ticket to go to Paris, not about ordering your burger your way. I'd call that blind faith, and I'm touched by it still.

 

[DeservingBitch]

My take on it is coming from the same attitude I have for most things in life: I give other people the same credit I give myself to be the best person to know what is right for them.

So, while I am happy to have extensive conversations about limits/interests/desires/needs/etc., I also assume that if after only one coffee date -- where I made my interests clear and we agreed on a safeword -- a pyl tells me they are ready to play with me, that it means they are indeed ready to play with me and understand what they're getting into.

When I first got into BDSM -- as a bottom at the time -- it pissed me off to no end when PYLs would take a patronizing attitude toward me and assume that they needed to 'protect' me from my own decisions. Fuck, if I tell you I'm ready to do that, it's because I mean it. And if I change my mind and realize that I actually don't want it anymore, you can count on the fact that I'll let you know.

Obviously, I'm talking more of SM play then D/s.

 

[nh23]

You know I guess it depends on what context he is asking the question in. Is this online only? Does the pyl know the PYL..are they complete strangers? I think more information is needed.

 

[serijules]

My first reaction was to wonder what the hell you're smoking...

Digging a bit deeper, I agree with KC - it kind of depends on how long they've known each other/how the relationship has developed, etc.

If you mean submitting to the first PYL one meets, without hesitation/thought from the first email, introduction at a munch, whatever just because the PYL says to submit, I'd say bad idea.

If you mean in the process of developing an actual relationship the two parties get comfortable enough with one another that the pyl trusts the PYL's judgement enough to submit unquestioningly, I'd have less of an issue (even if it was the pyl's first attempt at a BDSM relationship).

... but then I don't believe submission is a gift nor do I feel collars are that big of a deal, and Gorean BDSM is based on a work of science fiction, so I might not be the best person to answer the question. lol

I agree with this post a lot, although my opinion on the "big dealness" of collars differs, but that's another post.

I would have to say I "blindly submitted" to D once she offered me her collar, if not long before that. I gave over control of my limits, my body and just about everything that mattered. I trusted her that much.

However....

We'd been friends for many years. I'd spent time with her, played with her, talked with her and cried on her shoulder and leant support in return. We had a solid working relationship, albeit a non-BDSM one for the most part, for years prior. I didn't see her or talk to her on a daily basis, but we were good friends and that friendship immediately reconnected any time we spent together, in person or online.

So, the blind submission part came with a natural ease when our relationship moved into one where she offered me her collar...something she does not take lightly at ALL.

I've been on the other side of the coin too though. I was very new, impressed by this Dom that seemed to be well liked (key word: seemed to be) respected etc. He offered me a collar and I blindly accepted it and put myself into some very dangerous situations. Looking back now, I realize that what I was giving was not even similar to what I call submission now, but at the time, it was all I knew, and I gave it all.

I'd highly advise against it.

It can work though. My current living example is a rarity I think though. Most people don't seem to embrace the value of getting to know and forming mutual friendships with the people they wish to own/submit to. For me now, knowing what I do and being where I am, it's a no-brainer and very much what I attribute the success and longevity of our relationship to despite the many hardships. Took a lot of falling victim to alleged no-brainer situations to gain that wisdom though. Live and learn!

 

[CutieMouse]

*****