Submission is a gift

[BiBunny]

Dominance and submission are personality traits. Nothing more, nothing less. The way you choose to express them is entirely up to you. OSG, for example, fully admits that she is submissive to all men because a.) that's how her personality is expressed and b.) that's how her Master wants her to act, anyhow. I, on the other hand, just do what my Master says, and to hell with everyone else. (Besides, he thinks it's funny that I end up intimidating men who are trying to intimidate me....The man doesn't call me a puma--a solitary apex predator--for no reason, and I rather like the comparison.)

Go ahead and insert the different strokes cliche here. I wouldn't be happy with OSG's Master, and she wouldn't be happy with mine. Hence, our decisions to be with kinds of men we're with, rather than with someone with whom we'd be miserable and unfulfilled all the time. Of course, there are as many other forms of submission as there are men and women who practice them, pretty much. It all comes down to the desire to submit, in whatever fashion, and the difference is in how you choose to express it.

Notice I said nothing about a "gift" at all whatsoever in this post.

Also, OSG, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example. I was just trying to think of someone who's not very similar to me, and you've discussed your relationship enough that I didn't think I'd be putting words into your mouth with my short analysis.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I see that you are not part of the Giftean subculture within BDSM society. Though I probably shouldn't bring them up again as I might step on toes...

But Homburg Sir, I am trying my hardest to understand this giftean subculture and to learn the proper usage of the word gift, when and how it should be given also.
Sadly though I submit because I am submissive (not to be confused with "a" submissive mind you) and to me it is not a gift but a curse that never goes away.

 

[00Syd]

Further ponerance over lunch provided more ranting that i'd like to share.

all that bit about oragami was distracting though.

it seems to me though that for a sub to call submission a gift is arrogant and/ or vapid.

I can understand why a Dominant would want to dodge calling submission a gift just to avoid encouraging that sort of vapidness, but I feel that for a Dominant not to appreciate submission as though it were a gift is arrogant and/ or insensitive, which may or may not be an intended part of the dynamic anyway.

I see it that way too. The word "gift" in itself, IMO, just furthers this sort of "I am just SO GREAT, you should be thanking me everyday that I give myself to you" sort of idea. Someone else on here said (and I'm sorry I don't remember who at this moment) that its sort of like, you give the gift once but then after that it's a possession, and you don't have to keep giving it every day. It's given and then its an acknowledged possession, and hopefully it's a prized possession, but it's not like you have to take a prized possession in your hand every day and say "wow, am I ever happy to have this!" it's just inherent in the ownership (and proper care!).

 

[Homburg]

But Homburg Sir, I am trying my hardest to understand this giftean subculture and to learn the proper usage of the word gift, when and how it should be given also.
Sadly though I submit because I am submissive (not to be confused with "a" submissive mind you) and to me it is not a gift but a curse that never goes away.

It's not a curse, darlin. It's a feature. I certainly think it's a plus.



And I'd try to explain the Giftean subculture, but they're a fairly secretive lot, doing their good works under cover of Giftean Anonymity.

--

I see it that way too. The word "gift" in itself, IMO, just furthers this sort of "I am just SO GREAT, you should be thanking me everyday that I give myself to you" sort of idea.

Damned straight.

Someone else on here said (and I'm sorry I don't remember who at this moment) that its sort of like, you give the gift once but then after that it's a possession, and you don't have to keep giving it every day.

I believe it was Bij that said it, and I thought it was a great post too.

 

[nh23]

Sex is a gift
BJs are a gift
Allowing spankings is a gift


WTF??


Someone pleasssssssssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeee explain all this to me.

Nah, it's an exchange. I don't consider a part of my personality to be a gift. But like I've said before I have a hard time saying that a part of my personality is this special, special gift and if Master is a really good boy I'll give it to him. I have strong feelings on this particular topic and should probably avoid saying more.

 

[BiBunny]

and to me it is not a gift but a curse that never goes away

I've said that exact same thing about that part of my personality before. It's another reason I don't consider it a "gift."

 

[Netzach]

For me it's not the curse. That's being a Domme. This is something else, and it's a recognition of how safe I am to be boundary-less with one particular person. It's not that M or H love me less, it's that they don't know what to do with this kind of defenseless me. But I know what to do with theirs. And T's but that's just part of why I'm comfortable.

That's the curse for me. Never being able to really love someone who won't go that kind of defenseless, naked, and candid FOR ME. Period. It sucks.

This whole switching into submissive position is an unusual exception, built into my personality, clearly, but specific in terms of conditions. I could go through the rest of my life as I did the rest of my life prior to switching with T - perfectly fine. Busy.

Because I'm in a small minority, the gift analogy kind of works for my situation. I just don't like to approach my submissives that way, because all of the submissives I deal with are swimming more with their usual currents.

I do feel like it's a gift in *this* specific case. I have eight years of trust banked here. I have the track record of someone who's done and given MORE than circumstances would indicate, someone I honestly *know* loves me. The virgin in the wood to my particular, cranky, maneating breed of unicorn. He deserves, I give.

I try not to be a Saab. I try not to be a complicated prize with an owners' manual ten pages deep in Swedish and uh oh, I didn't mention I'm going to break down TODAY just for fun! Hee hee!

I'm also not a Saturn, which is a good fit for most people and a good first car.

If I didn't know that basically, T knows how to make use of me and have a good time of it, if I did think that my special gift would certainly wind up tattered and torn in the gutter, I wouldn't be endeavoring to do this. But I hardly follow around with a wagging finger of "you better treat me right!" if anything - an invite to rough me a little rougher.

If it doesn't work out, it'll be for myriad reasons, it'll just be a failed relationship. No more no less.

 

[nh23]

I've said that exact same thing about that part of my personality before. It's another reason I don't consider it a "gift."

Yep, I think Miss Rebecca said it very well in another thread, when she said this,

Gift ? No.

Irrevocable responsibility, socially isolating at times, a burden . Yes.

Life could be so much simpler.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

quote: Netzach
The virgin in the wood to my particular, cranky, maneating breed of unicorn.

Fucking great line.

And were I a sub, I would definitely be a Saab.

bj

 

[Netzach]

Fucking great line.

And were I a sub, I would definitely be a Saab.

bj

haha, thank you.

It's a particularly chosen metaphor on my part that I really consider the best for me and what methods "tame" me. Show up, be gentle, be patient, be the right person. Sorry, wrong person, you are SOL. Loud noises and sudden movements lose the game.

 

[BiBunny]

If we're going with car analogies, I'm going to compare myself to my own car--Firebird.

American-made. Prone to being cranky and temperamental and breaking down at the worst possible times. Basically an average thing, but with slightly higher performance when it's in the mood to participate, which can fool your ordinary redneck into thinking it's something out of the ordinary. But loyal nonetheless if it thinks you'll make it feel special occasionally.

 

[Netzach]

I think I'm like a fingerprint or retinal recognition ignited honda civic.

 

[BiBunny]

I think I'm like a fingerprint or retinal recognition ignited honda civic.

I can see that in me, too....

 

[intothewoods]

Ummmmm. Wow, the car analogy is hard.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Ummmmm. Wow, the car analogy is hard.

i think we shoulda just stuck with the gold vs platinum.

 

[ecstaticsub]

The submission is a gift analogy fits my situation. Since, I too have strong feelings about this subject I am going to stay out of this converation. (well, at least I'll try )

I do wonder though....why does it matter to those who don't refer to submission as a gift that some of us do?

 

[midwestyankee]

I try not to be a Saab. I try not to be a complicated prize with an owners' manual ten pages deep in Swedish and uh oh, I didn't mention I'm going to break down TODAY just for fun! Hee hee!

SAABs are intelligent, quirky, long-lasting, shaped slightly oddly, built with unusual and user-friendly features, and they trace their lineage to fighter planes. I like that in a woman. If submission truly were an automotive gift, Id want a SAAB.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm a Yugo.

 

[BiBunny]

The submission is a gift analogy fits my situation. Since, I too have strong feelings about this subject I am going to stay out of this converation. (well, at least I'll try )

I do wonder though....why does it matter to those who don't refer to submission as a gift that some of us do?

Only speaking for myself here. I don't know how others feel.

It bugs me because it tends to represent a stereotype of a "sub" in my mind. Most (note the use of "most" here) of the people I've heard use this terminology are the princessy do-me bottom "subs" or the kind of doms who attract them. I don't have a whole lot of respect for people who do this just because they think it makes them look cool.

It also tends to be something people run in the ground. The same old bullshit from the same kind of people (pussy-whipped Interwebz "doms" and whiny, needy, insecure "subs") gets old in a hurry. If you doubt me, start a thread here about a sub not getting her way and watch most of the posts be about how the dom is soooooo abusive and horrid, etc., etc., etc. It's exhausting.

I'm not saying all people who look at it that way are like this. But there's an obnoxious contingent that is. They generally don't have much experience outside of chatrooms, and they tend to ram it down your throat, too. After a while, you just get sick of it.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm a Yugo.

I don't believe it. Not even the least-functional trolls classify as Yugos. I see you as more of a....hmmmmm...I'll have to think on this one a bit.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't believe it. Not even the least-functional trolls classify as Yugos. I see you as more of a....hmmmmm...I'll have to think on this one a bit.

True. I'm really a high-functioning troll, as trolls go.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Only speaking for myself here. I don't know how others feel.

It bugs me because it tends to represent a stereotype of a "sub" in my mind. Most (note the use of "most" here) of the people I've heard use this terminology are the princessy do-me bottom "subs" or the kind of doms who attract them. I don't have a whole lot of respect for people who do this just because they think it makes them look cool.

It also tends to be something people run in the ground. The same old bullshit from the same kind of people (pussy-whipped Interwebz "doms" and whiny, needy, insecure "subs") gets old in a hurry. If you doubt me, start a thread here about a sub not getting her way and watch most of the posts be about how the dom is soooooo abusive and horrid, etc., etc., etc. It's exhausting.

I'm not saying all people who look at it that way are like this. But there's an obnoxious contingent that is. They generally don't have much experience outside of chatrooms, and they tend to ram it down your throat, too. After a while, you just get sick of it.

I guess I don't spend enough time in chatrooms to notice.

However, please keep in mind that there are those of us who aren't "princessy do-me bottom "subs" " who get a little tired of seeing something we believe in ridiculed over and over again.

The gift analogy probably doesn't fit most of the relationships on this forum. But it does mine.

Thanks for answering.

 

[midwestyankee]

True. I'm really a high-functioning troll, as trolls go.

Thank you for the assist. You're an Audi: refined, reliable, well-constructed, good sense of design, odd in a very useful and admirable way, and efficient.

 

[the captians wench]

Hey, I'm submissive but not with just anyone. It is a gift. I just don't call it that. I call it, "Tie me to that tree and beat my ass because you own me!" Oh, I usually scream out something like that. Better than, "Please don't exchange my gift, soulmate!"

*giggles* You're more likely to hear the first out of me as well. And I'm also one of those people who feel like I could be submissive to just about anyone, which is why I never really thought of it as a gift before,

Only speaking for myself here. I don't know how others feel.

It bugs me because it tends to represent a stereotype of a "sub" in my mind. Most (note the use of "most" here) of the people I've heard use this terminology are the princessy do-me bottom "subs" or the kind of doms who attract them. I don't have a whole lot of respect for people who do this just because they think it makes them look cool.

It also tends to be something people run in the ground. The same old bullshit from the same kind of people (pussy-whipped Interwebz "doms" and whiny, needy, insecure "subs") gets old in a hurry. If you doubt me, start a thread here about a sub not getting her way and watch most of the posts be about how the dom is soooooo abusive and horrid, etc., etc., etc. It's exhausting.

I'm not saying all people who look at it that way are like this. But there's an obnoxious contingent that is. They generally don't have much experience outside of chatrooms, and they tend to ram it down your throat, too. After a while, you just get sick of it.

And this is exactly why. I have always been of the same impression. And it really bugs me that I now see some logic in the whole thing. Kind of like realizing "hey I do like cheese pizza" when the entire time you're known about pizza you've been on the "just cheese is just wrong" side of things.

But like I said, I don't like the over romantisized vertion that we see more often either. I gave him me, all of me, wrapped up in a not so neat kinda cheap wrapping package. My trust, my love, my submission, all of it. I gave it once, because I think he is a really good person and deserving of it. It's not something that I can take away because he doesn't use it the way I think he should. And as far as the submission part, well that's not something I really held to only give to "the one" either. But I think more importantly, I view it as a gift, because that's the value he put on it, not me.

 

[intothewoods]

Thank you for the assist. You're an Audi: refined, reliable, well-constructed, good sense of design, odd in a very useful and admirable way, and efficient.

Is Audi German? If so...No.