Submission is a gift

[nh23]

I've experienced both and I liked 'em.

I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

Excuse me, I must have had some sort of mastabatory fantasy.

 

[nh23]

Excuse me, I must have had some sort of mastabatory fantasy.

Of course. Didn't you know I'm the thing fantasy's are made of?

 

[Breaker_Morant]

Of course. Didn't you know I'm the thing fantasy's are made of?

 

[EmpressFi]

I dont mind people having a difference of opinion on this subject. As someone said, its beating a dead horse.

However, the level of ridicule of those who DO feel that way is disheartening and down-right sickening.

Is that all you people know.. is how to belittle and insult other people? Wow, how clever and intelligent you are to come up with little conversations that you've posted here.

I'm out.

people who want to talk to me, know how to reach me.

The rest, you disgust me

 

[Kajira Callista]

I dunno. I thought a really nice discussion developed in this thread. *shrug*

 

[the captians wench]

I dunno. I thought a really nice discussion developed in this thread. *shrug*

I personally agree, and having seen it get nasty before think it is actually pretty mellow.

For once, I believe, it's been touch upon with out much insult. Sure there was a bit of taunting at the begining, but I think for the most part it's been limited to showing examples of why it's not heavily supported here.

Personally, I'll probably keep going back and forth on it. But like I said, how I view my submission, really isn't as important as how he views it.

 

[Homburg]

Heck, everyone here knows how I feel about the topic, and I talked about carrots.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The flip side to this is that I don't expect any of the above to be treated as a gift (especially not allowing spankings, because that makes no sense), but is it a crime against submission to say that I don't always enter the door all charged up and ready to go? I mean, fuck a duck.

Actuallly I always see a gift as something one gives, something another accepts (well usually) with grace, and then what the one who receives decides to do with it, how they treat it, whether they keep it, use it, abuse it, discard it, treasure it etc., is entirely their own decision and right to do as once given it no longer belongs to the giver, nor can they expect any control over it once given. Hence if people see it as a gift, or not, as I said before, who cares? It is up to them, not anonymous names in cyberland, to define and judge them as they see fit. Guess I didn't pick up my manual when it was on sale to know how to act in these things.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

Heck, everyone here knows how I feel about the topic, and I talked about carrots.

that was the other thread

 

[intothewoods]

Actuallly I always see a gift as something one gives, something another accepts (well usually) with grace, and then what the one who receives decides to do with it, how they treat it, whether they keep it, use it, abuse it, discard it, treasure it etc., is entirely their own decision and right to do as once given it no longer belongs to the giver, nor can they expect any control over it once given. Hence if people see it as a gift, or not, as I said before, who cares? It is up to them, not anonymous names in cyberland, to define and judge them as they see fit. Guess I didn't pick up my manual when it was on sale to know how to act in these things.

Catalina

Sound good. I don't think I have really thought about what a gift is at any deep level, honestly. I suppose we all care at some level what people think (semi-anonymous, if you know them online?) or we wouldn't be posting here, but at the end of the day, as you and others have said, what matters is what you and your partner(s) think.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Okay I am going to post my thoughts.. D/s is up to interpertation by everyone, everyone sees things differently thats what makes this world unique... in Our/O world we see things as a gift... both directions his dominance over me , he could have chosen anyone he didnt have to chose me for this journey he had a plethora of submissives willing to give themselves to him. OTOH, I had my choice of Dominants to choose my life with , hell in fact when I got with him I had a choice... but we chose one another to be with each other and have just barely scratched the surface on us taking this journey a little more than a year ago. I gave him my gift of offering my heart, mind, body and soul to him and he offered his training, dominance and heart and soul to me. We fell into love in the midst of it and our lives have changed so much in the last year... for us it works to call D/s a gift. Yes a gift is something you give you never expect to get back..and to ask for that gift back would be maybe being a indian giver? Well in our life and Our/o world it works to each thier own. and no matter how you look at it.. It is a great thing to be with someone that shares your views on life...

For me my submission was a gift I presented him with when I was ready to give myself 110% to him. it wasnt something that happend immdiately it took time... he earned my respect, my submission and my heart.... all I have to be sure of now is to protect both of our hearts.. just my opinion....

 

[Homburg]

that was the other thread

It was? Shit, I'm getting lost in all the witty banter and whinging.

 

[Windflower]

Yes. It's like saying keep your carrots on your own plate. Those are not part of my menu. You eat what you want and stay away from my right to choose not to eat them. No, I am not cooking them the wrong way, I do not like them and doesn't make me a bad person for not sharing your love of eating mushy roots.

Again, it doesn't. Unless and until you are a Big Fat Meanie because you don't see it that way. Or all people who aren't thus enlightened don't Get It.

 

[SierraMoon]

Obviously I did and thats why I started a thread to figure it out.

Pardon me, but I guess I took the WTF?? as a bit confrontational, because I can't honestly believe that you or anyone else on this board truly care 1) what I call my submission to him or 2) Why I choose to call it that.

 

[Homburg]

Back to the intent of the thread (I think)...

*snip*

The bottomline, for me, is that the gift is your heart.

~LB

I think this is an interesting, and overlooked, point.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Pardon me, but I guess I took the WTF?? as a bit confrontational, because I can't honestly believe that you or anyone else on this board truly care 1) what I call my submission to him or 2) Why I choose to call it that.

Welllllllllll...


I can't believe that anyone on this board would think i was being confrontational because i was started a thread. Annnnnnnyone here who knows me knows i can be real confrontational if i wanna and i got directly to the person i want to confront.


BTW this is the "cafe" side of the boards? or did i make a mistake?
my really big WTF was mean to make ya laugh.


My biggest issue and problem is the def of submission and the ability to gift that. sounds more like be nice and I will give you lolli... and it isnt just submission i hear being called a gift. It is spankings or puinishment or whatever it may be. I don't understand a power exchange if one side (the wrong side IMHO) is dealing the cards the way they want to by making everything into an earned gift.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

I don't understand a power exchange if one side is dealing the cards the way they want to by making everything into an earned gift.

As the Zach said.. "submission is a gift" is the mantra of a neophyte Dom because just having made the transition from vanilla to the Dark Side, he is still use to the idea that women control sex. What's that joke? Something about spending 9 months trying to get out and then rest of their life trying to get back in.

As far as the gift idea goes, I've reached the conclusion that the "gift" is the the pyl's loyalty and all that. However, for every pyl out there, there has to be a PYL to fullfil the need and vice versa.

I wish I could claim I'd reached the above stated conclusion on my own but after recent discussions with someone special, she's help me along this path.

And like everybody else has stated, everybody has their own flavor of bdsm. All that matters is that they and their partner enjoy it. Anybody who says they are wrong is so narrow minded that they probably use post it notes to write letters home to mom.

 

[Netzach]

As the Zach said.. "submission is a gift" is the mantra of a neophyte Dom because just having made the transition from vanilla to the Dark Side, he is still use to the idea that women control sex.

And the neophyte Domme has to feel guilty about not having total consensus on every freaking thing she wants.

I mean, if men get the message that you never strongarm a girl, women get the message that you never strongarm anyone ever.

I recommend that neophyte Dommes focus on giving themselves gifts.

 

[Homburg]

Welllllllllll...


I can't believe that anyone on this baord would think i was being confrontational because i was started a thread. Annnnnnnyone here who knows me knows i can be real confrontational if i wanna and i got directly to the person i want to confront.

Darlin, some of us know that you're a rockstar, but others may not be so acquainted with you.

BTW this is the "cafe" side of the boards? or did i make a mistake?
my really big WTF was mean to make ya laugh.

Unfortunately (and this will inevitably piss people off) the sort of folks who are likely to see their submission as a special gift are the least likely to be amused by a challenge directed at that concept.

My biggest issue and problem is the def of submission and the ability to gift that. sounds more like be nice and I will give you lolli... and it isnt just submission i hear being called a gift. It is spankings or puinishment or whatever it may be. I don't understand a power exchange if one side is dealing the cards the way they want to by making everything into an earned gift.

To be serious for a moment, I think that there is a disconnect between people here. Some people look at the situation very critically, see submission and dominance as factors of personality. It is, in its' own way, a dispassionate view, regardless of how passionate the individual in question might be. (and I doubt that anyone would call Bibunny, as an example, dispassionate as a person)

I am dominant, period. It is how I interact sexually and romantically. I will not be fully comfortable or happy in a relationship with a partner that is not submissive. I do not see my dominance as a "gift" of mine such as artistic ability, musical skill, great intelligence, or the ability to dance. I just see it as part of me, and how I express myself. And dominance within my relationships is how I express myself romantically and sexually. I am not going to be in a relationship with someone and decide to give them the "gift" of my dominance. I just act the way I act, and that is that. the only analogue in my life to a gift here is, as Lilybart said, the gift of my heart. And it is a gift more along the lines of how bijou expressed the term.

I see submission in the same way as I see my dominance. It is just how someone expresses themselves, how they act, how they are. It's like hair colour. There is nothing intrinsically special about being submissive any more than being dominant or having brown hair or blue eyes or whatever. The special part comes about with what you do with it, the relationship you build.

I think that some people can not or will not separate submission from the relationship in toto, and see the "specialness" (my apologies for the blatant neologism here) of their relationship challenged if the "specialness" of their submission is challenged. And I think this is where Netz's excellent post about "BIG FAT MEANIES" comes from.

To use someone as an example that has posted here (and I feel comfortable using her as an example, even though we disagree, because I love her dearly), I may see EmpressFi's submission as simply a part of her overall build (in the computer sense, not the physical sense) much as her eye colour or beautiful hair, but I see her relationship with KoF and the Great Red Beast as being a thing of beauty and worth, and, yes, "specialness".

I am not a heartless, dispassionate monster for refusing to submission a gift. I just don't consider submission (or dominance!) on its' own to be all that special or gift-ish. What matters, what is special, is your relationship, your dynamic.

 

[00Syd]

Homburg - that was the most excellent post

 

[Kajira Callista]

Homburg - that was the most excellent post

I agree. Thank you Homburg.

 

[the captians wench]

And the neophyte Domme has to feel guilty about not having total consensus on every freaking thing she wants.

I mean, if men get the message that you never strongarm a girl, women get the message that you never strongarm anyone ever.

I recommend that neophyte Dommes focus on giving themselves gifts.

This was my focas durring my brief round on the top side.

"This is all about me, bitch, YOU get on your knees and suck it".

Some times it was good being the top. At least then I could be all focased on me and not worry about feeling guilty.

Funny, I also looked at the guy submitting to me as a privilage, not a gift. Man I can be a nasty bitch when I wanna.

 

[Homburg]

Homburg - that was the most excellent post

I agree. Thank you Homburg.

Thank you both

 

[Betticus]

Okay... Here is my take on this matter and for the record I never quite understood the concept of submission as a gift when it is just who you are.

You're submissive. Being in love with you is the gift.

As far as bdsm goes you'll understand politely that there is a big part of me that wants to rape you even if I care deeply for you. I want you against your will, to take you, pin you down, overpower you, tear your clothes off and force my cock deep into you and leave you with a nice wet gift of my own.

I guess the real gift for me is that you love it, gain fulfillment with being an outlet for my perverse aggression and that being able to make me happy and satisfied makes you feel whole inside. Even though while I'm fucking you very evil thoughts go through my head. Images of tearing through your body with my cock, choking you, making you cry like a baby, imagine the feeling of helplessness you have while I'm taking you. So gift me all you want by not calling the police and in return if you are my special lil girl who I love our relationship will be much deeper than just me raping you and treating you like my pet, my property.

Now, if you truly feel that your submission is a wonderous gift just ignore my post as we won't understand each other. I won't judge you and will happily let yo do your thing but at the same time realize that I'm just a different flavor of person than you and you should not get mad at me.

P.S. It will be going in your butt. It will hurt. Be ready.