subconcious plagiarism?

[Stella_Omega]

I recently discovered Thomas Dekker and his collaborator Thomas Middleton.
Notice- I said recently, as in the past few months.
Dekker wrote a play called "Patient Grissill" and there's a story about a Suffolk family that was saved from financial ruin by the discovery of a manuscript that they owned...
well, anyway, he, and Middleton, were excellent playwrites.
I would recommend The Witch of Edmonton highly- it shows a very sophisticated understanding of human nature, what the social shunning of one person might lead to.
Of Middleton's other works, The Changeling is fascinating.

But please, I beg of you, don't read The Roaring Girl lest you learn my unwitting indiscretion!

When I had the idea for an erotic tale set, not in the true renaissance but the SCA version, the name "Mad Moll" struck me as a typically invented name. Seemed good for a middle-aged bulldyke with a costume fetish
Little did I know that there really was a Mad Moll! Mary Frith was her name, and she was a hell-raiser to match my own character. The play is subtitled "Moll Cutperse" but at the end of the prologue, we read;
"But would you know who 'tis? Would you hear her name?
She is call'd mad Moll; her life, our acts proclaim."

Mad Moll! Who'da thunk it!
Where would I have heard that name before? Upon my life, I can't imagine.

 

[EternalWinter]

I did that once in high school during a presentation we had to give to the class. We were doing projects on the 1920s because we were reading the Great Gatsby and each one of us was assigned a certain aspect of life during that time to research to present to the class. For example, I had crime and punishment and one of the girls had things that were taboo...I think.

Anyway, she did her presentation the day before I did and obviously we both ended up talking about bootlegging. When I took my turn I just winged it, as I usuall do...saying what I thought was just generic facts about bootlegging, but when I thought about it later I had quoted the girl who had taboo almost word for word.

Whoops.

To my credit, the class started at 7am and I am not a morning person. Also, nobody else seemed to notice, or at least didn't say anything.

 

[AchtungNight]

You're not the only one who has on occasion tapped into Spiritus Mundi when writing an erotic story and created things that are uncomfortably close to reality. Just look up some of the celebrity trivia I've mentioned in my works and see how close it fits real life. 9 times out of 10- and this is true- I did not know such details at the first moment I got the idea. Later, during research, I discovered them and they fit, so they made it into the story. Spooky, isn't it?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

If you happen to inadvertantly pick a name like Mad Moll, which lends itself to that kind of character, then find out it's been used before, is it really plagerism? I don't think so. The story would have to follow the exact same plot line, a number of very close similarities would have to be found to prove it was.

I wouldn't worrry about it, Stella

 

[CharleyH]

I recently discovered Thomas Dekker and his collaborator Thomas Middleton.
Notice- I said recently, as in the past few months.
Dekker wrote a play called "Patient Grissill" and there's a story about a Suffolk family that was saved from financial ruin by the discovery of a manuscript that they owned...
well, anyway, he, and Middleton, were excellent playwrites.
I would recommend The Witch of Edmonton highly- it shows a very sophisticated understanding of human nature, what the social shunning of one person might lead to.
Of Middleton's other works, The Changeling is fascinating.

But please, I beg of you, don't read The Roaring Girl lest you learn my unwitting indiscretion!

When I had the idea for an erotic tale set, not in the true renaissance but the SCA version, the name "Mad Moll" struck me as a typically invented name. Seemed good for a middle-aged bulldyke with a costume fetish
Little did I know that there really was a Mad Moll! Mary Frith was her name, and she was a hell-raiser to match my own character. The play is subtitled "Moll Cutperse" but at the end of the prologue, we read;
"But would you know who 'tis? Would you hear her name?
She is call'd mad Moll; her life, our acts proclaim."

Mad Moll! Who'da thunk it!
Where would I have heard that name before? Upon my life, I can't imagine.

I think we can have the same ideas? I think it does not mean anything. I think I want to ask more questions before responding?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think we can have the same ideas? I think it does not mean anything. I think I want to ask more questions before responding?

Fire away!

I have trouble with titles; I did not title this thread quite to the right effect. Dekker and Middleton are dead these four hundred years gone... there is no copyright law to worry about,
Actually, I was thinking of the fan-fic thread, and rather marvelling that my original- very original, as far as I know- tale is so nearly canon to such an obscure fandom! (that never existed online before)

 

[BlackShanglan]

You know, when I saw Stella's story, I thought I had heard the name "Mad Moll" before! I think I ended up assuming it was some sort of generic-ish name, like the way that bordello owners inevitably seem to be named "Lil" - either that or that I had it crossed up with Moll Flanders. Perhaps Stella heard it in passing some time back, or saw it used by someone else, and it got buried somewhere down in her mind ready to pop up when needed.

I've actually caught myself plagiarizing myself. I'll put a phrase down and think I really like the sound of it, then slowly realize that it's because I've used it before. I'm terrified that some day I will do - or Heaven forfend, that I already have done - that with a phrase someone else wrote. I think it speaks to Stella's essential "writerliness," if I'm allowed to invent words. She hears names and phrases and images and the interesting ones stay in memory longer than the duller bits of their context. Strange little games the mind can play.

Shanglan

 

[Equinoxe]

I hadn't noticed this thread a few days ago when it was posted, but I find it amusing to see it now, because, last night in fact, I was reading about and briefly looking into works by, amongst others, Thomas Dekker; I had encountered the same name and I thought, "Now, that sounds familiar!" Having said that, I am quite certain that anyone who has written anything has written something that has been written before, even something nearly identical -- whether it be subconscious influence, conscious influence, or complete accident.