Story Thieves

[Goodalphamale]

I've seen many stories from this site getting stolen and being sold on Amazon, as an author it makes my blood boil.

So if people are stealing stories from here and selling it on Amazon, then authors should sell it on Amazon first and post it here.

That's a win win situation right?

 

[NuclearFairy]

Well, in theory yes. But oftentimes what gets published here and not sold elsewhere is not considered by the author good enough to sell. Other times the author isn't sure how to navigate such a deal, doesn't have the time for it, or simply doesn't want to line the pocket of what they consider to be an evil corporation.

 

[StillStunned]

I think most of us publish on Lit because it's relatively hassle-free. Write a story, submit it and wait for it to be published. A built-in audience so almost guaranteed readers.

Speaking for myself, I work 40-60 hours a week. That doesn't leave a lot of energy for hobbies. I'd rather spend my spare time doing the actual writing instead of mucking around with the commercial side - or even editing my stories to the same level as I do with my professional editing for clients.

 

[RejectReality]

Yep. All the rigamarole you have to go through for pay publishing makes it feel like work. I couldn't summon up the necessary motivation even when I was broke.

 

[iwatchus]

I've seen many stories from this site getting stolen and being sold on Amazon, as an author it makes my blood boil.

So if people are stealing stories from here and selling it on Amazon, then authors should sell it on Amazon first and post it here.

That's a win win situation right?

Do you know of cases where it is not the author doing that?

If the author does it, maybe publishing here gave them the confidence to try the "real world". I count that as a good thing this site has done.

If someone else is doing it, that is serious copyright theft. You should notify the author of it happening. But it may just be the author publishing under a different name. If I ever decided to start publishing for reals, I would not use iwatchus

 

[StillStunned]

Do you know of cases where it is not the author doing that?

If the author does it, maybe publishing here gave them the confidence to try the "real world". I count that as a good thing this site has done.

If someone else is doing it, that is serious copyright theft. You should notify the author of it happening. But it may just be the author publishing under a different name. If I ever decided to start publishing for reals, I would not use iwatchus

It's happened to me. I found a book on Amazon with ten sex stories, at least three of which were mine. You can't mistake titles like "Rulk the Rat and the Demon Dagger", "Bound to the Blade" and "Not A Soul" (I think those were the ones), and I suspect that "Three Dancers" was my "Pas de Trois". I filed a complaint with Amazon (and I know at least one other forum member notified Amazon as well), and the book was taken down within a few hours.

 

[lilshymynx]

Do you know of cases where it is not the author doing that?

If the author does it, maybe publishing here gave them the confidence to try the "real world". I count that as a good thing this site has done.

If someone else is doing it, that is serious copyright theft. You should notify the author of it happening. But it may just be the author publishing under a different name. If I ever decided to start publishing for reals, I would not use iwatchus

There's been plenty of instances of people ripping stories from Lit and putting them up for sale elsewhere. There's 2 WLW authors that pulled their stories from the site because it happened to them.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I've seen many stories from this site getting stolen and being sold on Amazon, as an author it makes my blood boil.

So if people are stealing stories from here and selling it on Amazon, then authors should sell it on Amazon first and post it here.

That's a win win situation right?

That kinda defeats the purpose of putting it on KDP, and when it comes to the book market in general, typically, especially in a single media, whoever your publisher is, wants sole rights to that book.

There are writers here, who do publish what they sold on KDP, but after a certain amount of time, or when it stops making decent money. I think @lovecraft68 and @MillieDynamite both do this? I don't think it'd stop them either, because I believe I've heard of KDP or Smash authors getting books stolen from there, and put back on there, with maybe edits, and a different cover.

Shit "humans" are always exploiting folks for easy money.

 

[alohadave]

That kinda defeats the purpose of putting it on KDP, and when it comes to the book market in general, typically, especially in a single media, whoever your publisher is, wants sole rights to that book.

Many people publishing on KDP are self publishing, not going through an agent/trad publisher. First publication rights don't really matter if you are self publishing.

 

[Cacatua_Galerita]

Do you know of cases where it is not the author doing that?

Even I have had a story stolen for my limited catalog. There was nil attribution to me. I reported it and "ip-inquiries@amazon.com" removed it within a few days. Hopefully the thief didn’t receive any money from my intellectual property.

I’m also aware of several successful stories that have been pulled from Literotica, by the author, to go on sale through other sites. I see this as skimming the cream off the top of the Literotica story collection.

Preferably, this site would allow ebook sales of selected (or maybe all?) stories that have the author’s permission. That is, the site would continue to show all stories for free in the current ‘paged’ web format but there would also be a link where readers could purchase an epub download of the story for ~US$0.99 for offline reading (and to guarantee their perpetual access to that story). Proceeds would be shared between the site and the author (maybe 70/30 for the first 1000 sales, then 30/70 for anything beyond).

Unfortunately, this site doesn’t appear to have the capacity to even respond to routine correspondence, so I doubt they have the time to implement the complexity of international ecommerce. (E.g. What if the story was written in China? What tariff rate will apply? What if the buyer is in Australia? In most cases, the Australian Government expects foreign companies to collect Goods and Services Tax for them. )

 

[RejectReality]

Even I have had a story stolen for my limited catalog. There was nil attribution to me. I reported it and "ip-inquiries@amazon.com" removed it within a few days. Hopefully the thief didn’t receive any money from my intellectual property.

I’m also aware of several successful stories that have been pulled from Literotica, by the author, to go on sale through other sites. I see this as skimming the cream off the top of the Literotica story collection.

Preferably, this site would allow ebook sales of selected (or maybe all?) stories that have the author’s permission. That is, the site would continue to show all stories for free in the current ‘paged’ web format but there would also be a link where readers could purchase an epub download of the story for ~US$0.99 for offline reading (and to guarantee their perpetual access to that story). Proceeds would be shared between the site and the author (maybe 70/30 for the first 1000 sales, then 30/70 for anything beyond).

Unfortunately, this site doesn’t appear to have the capacity to even respond to routine correspondence, so I doubt they have the time to implement the complexity of international ecommerce. (E.g. What if the story was written in China? What tariff rate will apply? What if the buyer is in Australia? In most cases, the Australian Government expects foreign companies to collect Goods and Services Tax for them. )

Collecting money from individuals for any reason just adds another complication for the site. Payment processors are worse than the government as far as strong-arm tactics go. Lit isn't raking in "fuck you" money like OF, and they nearly caved not so long ago.

 

[Cacatua_Galerita]

Collecting money from individuals for any reason just adds another complication for the site. Payment processors are worse than the government as far as strong-arm tactics go. Lit isn't raking in "fuck you" money like OF, and they nearly caved not so long ago.

I gather Literotica wasn’t established as a money-making enterprise. I suspect it has only survived for 25+ years by staying small (infrastructure-wise) and surviving off the passion of the creators. Going into debt to fund business growth is the death of many ventures but, fortunately, the cost of storing and distributing digital text is far less than serving up audio or video. (HD video content must have killed a bunch of porn sites, who could no longer afford the server/bandwidth cost.)

However, this site can’t last forever on the creator’s passion alone. What is the succession plan for the next 25 years? Who will want to take on the (mostly thankless) burden of running this site? Is the advertising revenue enough to cover the costs of hiring administrators and maintaining servers? How many new staff are required to replace the knowledge and skills that the founders have built up over decades?

I’m grateful that Laurel and Manu haven’t caved to the Google advertising ecosystem, but if additional money is required to support the site, then the options I see are:

• Seek donations
• Monetize the users (sell data on us via 3rd party tracking)
• Monetize the stories (sell ebooks or paywall+subscription)

I think optional ebook sales would be the ‘least worst’ of the realistic choices. It may even have some benefits – like the possibility of cover artwork for stories, improved control over formatting/layout, and stemming some of the loss of great stories departing for the monetized sites.

Fingers crossed, I sure hope than Laurel and Manu continue devoting their time and financial backing to the site. Maybe the current advertising revenue is already enough to sustain it indefinitely?

 

[THBGato]

I think most of us publish on Lit because it's relatively hassle-free. Write a story, submit it and wait for it to be published. A built-in audience so almost guaranteed readers.

Speaking for myself, I work 40-60 hours a week. That doesn't leave a lot of energy for hobbies. I'd rather spend my spare time doing the actual writing instead of mucking around with the commercial side - or even editing my stories to the same level as I do with my professional editing for clients.

This.

I occasionally get comments/feedback from readers telling me I should make my stories commercially available.

Then I watch my wife, who is a published author, getting increasingly frustrated as she reviews the proofs for the Spanish translation of her novel and just think.... nah.

(Mind you it is super cool that her novel has been translated! Wish I could big it up here without revealing my identity as it's so good but, like most debut novels, hasn't gained much attention. Gah!)

 

[RejectReality]

I gather Literotica wasn’t established as a money-making enterprise. I suspect it has only survived for 25+ years by staying small (infrastructure-wise) and surviving off the passion of the creators. Going into debt to fund business growth is the death of many ventures but, fortunately, the cost of storing and distributing digital text is far less than serving up audio or video. (HD video content must have killed a bunch of porn sites, who could no longer afford the server/bandwidth cost.)

However, this site can’t last forever on the creator’s passion alone. What is the succession plan for the next 25 years? Who will want to take on the (mostly thankless) burden of running this site? Is the advertising revenue enough to cover the costs of hiring administrators and maintaining servers? How many new staff are required to replace the knowledge and skills that the founders have built up over decades?

I’m grateful that Laurel and Manu haven’t caved to the Google advertising ecosystem, but if additional money is required to support the site, then the options I see are:

• Seek donations
• Monetize the users (sell data on us via 3rd party tracking)
• Monetize the stories (sell ebooks or paywall+subscription)

I think optional ebook sales would be the ‘least worst’ of the realistic choices. It may even have some benefits – like the possibility of cover artwork for stories, improved control over formatting/layout, and stemming some of the loss of great stories departing for the monetized sites.

Fingers crossed, I sure hope than Laurel and Manu continue devoting their time and financial backing to the site. Maybe the current advertising revenue is already enough to sustain it indefinitely?

It's always been a hobby site. Most likely, it will just fade away one day.

Better than the alternative: Getting sold to some chat/hook-up consortium who just thinks of it as a funnel into the business they actually care about.

 

[ChasBozwell30]

Maybe there's a compromise for monetizing stories? Perhaps after they've been up for a year a writer could then have the option to charge for them. They could set a price, (even if it's just a dollar) and half would go to them and half to the site? Something like that might help writers and the site, while also not interfering with the current business model?

It could be a fun option.

 

[AchtungNight]

Some of our stories also carry inherent risks when monetized. I write fanfic and I don’t want to get sued by one of my subjects’ real life counterparts or some original creator who’s not amused by my work. Hasn’t happened yet but not making money is both protection from the possibility and reminder I write for fun.

 

[iwatchus]

I really like having this being a free site, both as a reader and, so far, as an author. As an author, I have a look commitment, low hassle way to try out writing. Even if my partner does give me grief for the amount of time I have spent on it over the last two months. As an author, I appreciate the option of taking my work away if I choose to. I have to admit I have grabbed local copies of stories I really like, so I am insulated from those being taken down. And I get to fix the typos that annoy me as a reader.

There is real money in copyright damages. I would gladly sign enforcement rights over to the site, meaning they could keep the damages, if they would scan for stolen stories being published. They would have to check with the author before pursuing or we could tell them we are publishing elsewhere. But it could actually be a money making enterprise for the site and protect the authors.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I gather Literotica wasn’t established as a money-making enterprise. I suspect it has only survived for 25+ years by staying small (infrastructure-wise) and surviving off the passion of the creators. Going into debt to fund business growth is the death of many ventures but, fortunately, the cost of storing and distributing digital text is far less than serving up audio or video. (HD video content must have killed a bunch of porn sites, who could no longer afford the server/bandwidth cost.)

However, this site can’t last forever on the creator’s passion alone. What is the succession plan for the next 25 years? Who will want to take on the (mostly thankless) burden of running this site? Is the advertising revenue enough to cover the costs of hiring administrators and maintaining servers? How many new staff are required to replace the knowledge and skills that the founders have built up over decades?

I’m grateful that Laurel and Manu haven’t caved to the Google advertising ecosystem, but if additional money is required to support the site, then the options I see are:

• Seek donations
• Monetize the users (sell data on us via 3rd party tracking)
• Monetize the stories (sell ebooks or paywall+subscription)

I think optional ebook sales would be the ‘least worst’ of the realistic choices. It may even have some benefits – like the possibility of cover artwork for stories, improved control over formatting/layout, and stemming some of the loss of great stories departing for the monetized sites.

Fingers crossed, I sure hope than Laurel and Manu continue devoting their time and financial backing to the site. Maybe the current advertising revenue is already enough to sustain it indefinitely?

It would be nice, but I suspect at some point stories will stop getting approved, then the site will just go dark and we will all go our separate ways wondering what happened.

 

[mirafrida]

It would be nice, but I suspect at some point stories will stop getting approved, then the site will just go dark and we will all go our separate ways wondering what happened.

For a site with this much traffic, I feel like there's usually a "sell it to some random third-party and watch them ruin what's good about it" phase slotted in there

 

[Bramblethorn]

Collecting money from individuals for any reason just adds another complication for the site. Payment processors are worse than the government as far as strong-arm tactics go. Lit isn't raking in "fuck you" money like OF, and they nearly caved not so long ago.

This, and more. People who've already seen Bramble's "why monetising Lit is a bad idea" rant can skip the rest of this, I don't have anything new for you...

To monetise our stories here, Lit would need to collect financial details (so they know where to send the money) and identifying info (for tax compliance purposes). They'd need to be reporting the latter to the US government - at the very least for US citizens and residents, I'm not sure about others. Assuming they're collecting that money from the readers, they'd also need to be collecting credit card details there. This is not a prospect that anybody should be enthused about.

That kind of information is attractive to some bad people. Literotica is an old site, running on a lot of legacy code and hard pressed to maintain what they have with occasional, relatively minor updates. I haven't seen the inside of their setup (and wouldn't be qualified to assess it if I did), but I think it would be reasonable to guess that their security model depends heavily on "nothing worth stealing". A database of real-life IDs directly linked to people's taste in erotica? For tens of thousands of authors? That's worth money. That requires being very serious about security.

The risks there are both site-level stuff (somebody steals the whole database) and account-level (somebody guesses your password, or tricks you into revealing it, and then hijacks your account and makes money off your stories.) Literotica has been around for long enough that many of the old-time authors are not here. KeithD/Pilot had over a thousand stories posted here when he died. A dead person isn't going to notice or report it when somebody guesses their password and starts profiting off their work.

Monetisation also provides a financial incentive to post stolen/AI-generated stories here. That means a ton more work for the site in weeding out that content (longer approval times, increased risk of legit stories getting rejected by accident) and potentially lowers the overall quality of stories here.

Lit already offers the option to link to other sites that do monetise content. Anything beyond that...be very careful what you ask for.