Story Discussion Varian, Main Queue 10-02-05

Varian P

writing again
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Posts
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Thanks to Pure for such a quick go-ahead, and thanks in advance to all who take the time to read and offer their comments.

Following is my attempt at something a bit lighter than what I usually write. It's a first draft, quite off the top of my head, so please feel free to eviscerate, should you feel the urge. I'll put a few specific questions at the end, but critiques of all kinds will be sincerely appreciated.

Wedding Night

She didn't know quite how it had happened. But it had. Her twenty-fourth birthday came and went, and there she was, still unmarried. Worse. Practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys, here and there, who'd taken momentary interest, asked her out, sometimes to dinner, sometimes to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vale.

What a mistake that had been. He'd known full well her stance on pre-marital sex, then acted as if it was some huge surprise when she refused to share the room with just one double bed. Then the other couple had acted so put out when she took up residence on the living room couch. She'd thought at least the girl would understand. That was what you got, she decided, when you dated outside the church. Pushy guys with selfish friends who looked at you like a freak from outer space when they realized they were in the room with a living, breathing twenty-something virgin.

When birthday number twenty-five loomed just weeks ahead, and not so much as a prospective boyfriend was on the radar, Jenny broke the solemn vow she'd taken after that nightmare weekend in Vale, and accepted an invitation to lunch with Joseph Drake. Definitely not from the church.

But so dreamy. Fine, it sounded corny, like the narrative from a Gilmore Girls episode or a Sweet Valley High novel. But apt.

Dreamy. Unbelievably handsome. Without question the best looking guy who'd ever flattered her with more than an obligatory sentence or two of small talk. And, in spite of his dubious lack of devoutness, really quite the gentleman. Wonderfully polite and attentive. He'd arrived promptly to pick her up, graciously opened doors, pulled out her chair, paid the check. And then, when he'd driven her home and walked her to her door, as she stood in nervous dread, afraid that her dream date was about to be forever sullied in her memory, that a hundred tiny hopes that were taking shape were about to be crushed by a request to come inside, or a premature and presumptuous attempt at a tongue kiss, he'd smiled sweetly, taken her hand, and planted a soft and perfectly appropriate kiss on her cheek, then left with no more than a promise to call. Which he did.

Five weeks later, on her birthday, it happened. He asked her to marry him. Almost out of her mind with joy, she, of course, accepted.

It was a short engagement, and the wedding was not as lavish as the one she'd always dreamt of. But it was lovely. A fine spring day in gorgeous Rusholme Park, under the arch of a little white gazebo with flowers cascading overhead. The only thing that nearly spoiled it all for her was the absence of her family who had first professed to dislike Drake (as she called him, finding it a more romantic name than Joseph, in part because it sounded a little dangerous), then protested to the brief engagement, and finally cut off communication with her altogether when she said in an obstinate way that was wholly uncharacteristic, that she'd marry him whether they liked it or not, and on the day of Drake's and her choosing.

Well, there was one other thing that troubled her. He'd made it clear—with painful finality—that he would not be adopting the ways of her faith or escorting her to church. She could do as she pleased, of course, but he made no pretense that he found her devout adherence to the Christian faith more admirable than amusing.

Still, he'd consented to a Christian wedding, and the words of the preacher blessing their union filled her with all the joyful promise a wedding day could bring a young woman. And as she looked at Drake beaming down at her with his warm smile and adoring gaze, she knew that he loved her. That they'd be happy.

The reception after was a blur of dancing, eating, sips of champagne, chatting and laughter with guests. It wasn't until they said good-bye to their friends and his family and climbed into the limousine, pulling yards and yards of white crinoline and satin and lace in after her, that the surreal whirlwind ceased whipping her attention all about with such speed she could hardly catch her breath, and they could finally really be together.

She was married! To Drake! She could hardly stop from smiling like a maniac, she was so happy. And when she looked at him, he looked just as happy. He pulled her to him, kissed her long and deep, then told her he loved her.

They rode along in silence for a while, Jenny thinking back happily on the day she imagined more than remembered. Picturing herself standing at the altar in her white gown, Drake slipping the platinum band onto her finger, they way they'd looked at each other over champagne flutes as they clinked after each toast.

"So quiet," her husband murmured beside her in a warm husky tone. "What are you thinking about?"

"Oh, just…I can't believe we're actually married," she ended with an embarrassed laugh.

Drake was eleven years older than Jenny, and she still felt a little awkward with him. A little in awe of him, and always kind of on guard against coming off as too immature or silly.

"Neither can I," he mused with dreamy eyes.

Then he nuzzled into her hair, kissing her behind the ear, then on her lobe, then her cheek, her neck. She startled when she felt his hot wet tongue slide along her jaw, against the crease of her ear, then felt him suck and nibble at her lobe. Something strange happened to her body. A flood of heat, a weird ticklish feeling poured over her. She sucked in her breath with pleasure and shock. He'd never done that before. He laughed gently as she pulled back and looked at him, blushing at the realization of where all the throbbing heat he'd created had settled.

"You're not nervous, are you?" he asked. "About tonight?"

She felt her face go bright pink. She'd made it clear, when they first started dating, that she was saving herself for marriage, and he'd said he thought that was sweet, and that was the last they'd said a word on the topic. Jenny couldn't even find the words to answer him.

"Tell your husband something, Jenny," he murmured with a warm smile, "how many lovers have you had?"

Her face and chest were hot as she stammered, "You…you know…I've never…"

"Ssshhh," he chuckled softly, stroking her arm, "I know you're a virgin, my bride. I'm not questioning that. But surely you have a little experience with men?"

"You…you mean have I dated? Sure, I mean, a little. Nothing serious. You know that."

She was flustered and nervous. Somehow his questions made her feel she was being accused of something.

"Jenny, my love, there's no need to be defensive."

He nuzzled her neck, kissed her cheek warmly.

"I just want to know what you know of love. Know what you've experienced, and what will be new to you. You can tell me everything. Even if you were to tell me—and I know you haven't, but just as an example—even if you were to tell me you'd slept with a man, or more than one man, I'd love you just the same. It's just that I want to know you, know how to be with you. Is that alright?"

He was kissing her neck so tenderly, caressing her arm and holding her hand so sweetly that her anxiety fell away, displaced by her love of him, her happiness to be called "my love" and "my bride" by him, and that strange, giddy ticklish warmth cascading over her.

"Yes. Of course."

These men you've dated. You've kissed them?"

"Some of them, yes."

"Real kisses? Hot, deep tongue kisses?"

She felt herself blushing again, and the breathy way he was talking had that funny heat swirling in her belly.

"Yes, with a couple of them."

"And those kisses, did they get you aroused?"

She didn't understand. He didn't sound jealous. On the contrary, he seemed, well, turned on. After the couple glasses of champagne she'd had at the reception, the idea that already, before they'd even gotten to his house—their house—she was arousing her husband, just with words, made her giddy with arousal and, well, pride.

"Did they?" he repeated.

"Yes," she answered softly, embarrassed in spite of the excitement of everything.

"I'm glad."

He put the hand he'd been holding on his thigh. Suddenly she was thinking about his body. Through the smooth fabric of his trousers she could feel that his thigh was firm, almost hard with muscle. It felt so different from her own thighs which, though reasonably toned, were soft by comparison. She wondered if the rest of him could be so hard. Soon she'd know, she thought with another blush, how his chest, his back, his stomach felt. And not through clothes. The thought of his naked body scared her at the same time it aroused her.

"Even though you're a virgin, Jenny, and even though we haven't done more than kiss, I have a feeling you're an ardent woman. I'm glad that kisses arouse you," he gave her a soft, lingering kiss on the lips, "because when I kiss you, when I touch you, I want it to excite you…" he slid her hand up his thigh, "…as much as it excites me."

It took her a minute to realize what that other hardness was that her thumb was now resting against. She yanked her hand away out of shock before she realized what she was doing.

"Never felt that before, Jenny dear?" he breathed at her ear.

He caught her wrist at her waist and drew her hand back, this time pressing her palm right to his stiff cock.

"Have you?"

She shook her head no, not trusting her voice.

Not even like this," he moved her hand slowly back and forth over his hard length, "through a man's clothes?"

"No."

"Have you ever seen one?"

"Seen?"

"A man's cock."

"Drake…"

The things he was doing, the things he was saying were shocking her. They'd have shocked her under any circumstances, but her blushing, squirming astonishment was heightened because this behavior was so far out of character for Drake, who'd never once said an inappropriate thing to her, and never once attempted more than an admittedly hot, deep, prolonged kiss, which she was more than eager to give by the time he first took it on their eighth date, one week and three days into their relationship.

"Answer me, Jenny." He said it with a soft voice and a warm smile, but still it felt like an order.

"No, I…not a real one. I mean, statues, and I…in a movie once, there was…"

"Was it hard?"

"What? I don't know. I mean, no. I don't think so."

"So innocent," he sighed, lifting a finger to her chest and trailing the tip over the smooth skin of her breasts, swelling just within view above the lacey border of her modest bodice. Then, watching her face, Drake's finger slipped just inside her dress, and wandered over the hills and valley of her heaving breasts.

"You know," he sighed, "I'm tempted to tear that dress off you right here."

Suddenly she was actually afraid, really scared, and she shrank back from him, shaking her head in protest.

"But I think I'll wait. Let's savor the anticipation."

His finger drew back from where it had been wandering perilously close to her taut nipple. Fifteen minutes later they pulled into his, that is, their driveway, Drake unlocked the front door, scooped her up in his arms, and carried the blushing bride Jenny over the threshold.

"Come on," Drake practically growled, flipping a switch to dimly light the stairway.

"Where?" she asked nervously.

"To the bedroom, of course, my beautiful bride."

He coaxed her ahead of him and followed her up the stairs, then guided her down the hall to the nuptial chamber. She panted like a bunny cornered by a fox as he advanced and she backed away until she bumped against a dresser. Without embracing her he leaned in and teased her lips with his until she sought his kiss. He smiled at her as he drew back.

"Turn around."

"What?"

"Turn around."

He put his hands lightly on her shoulders and guided her a hundred and eighty degrees around, unhooked the tiny clasp at the nape of her neck, and dragged the long zipper open to her waist.

"No bra," he observed aloud, turning her round to face him once more. He pressed himself against her, leaned in close, and whispered, "You can't imagine how hard my cock is, knowing I'm about to undress you."

She was amazed at how hot and soft her body felt at the same time her heart was pounding with doubt and terror. Why was he acting like this? He'd been so sweet, so gentle, so proper all through their relationship. Never in a hundred years could she have imagined him talking to her like this, treating her this way. It was as if he was being deliberately cruel. And yet…no…there was no malice in his voice. In his look. His voice was as sweet and warm as ever, his look adoring and…hungry. Not spiteful or mean. She didn't understand.

She stood stark still as he fingered the edge of her gown, pinching it delicately between the thumb and forefinger of both hands, and slowly pulled it away from her chest, peering down into her bodice. As if compelled she glanced down at Drake's vista—her breasts practically bare beneath the sheer, knit fabric of the little sewn-in slip. The sight of her nipples, dark and hard, sticking out vividly, aggravated the burning heat of her blush.

"Mmmm," he groaned, pressing his pelvis more firmly against hers, "you know, your pretty blush matches your nipples."

As Drake ran his fingertips under the elastic of the slip and began to slide it down, she half wanted to push him away, beg him to stop doing it like this, beg him to lay her on the bed, lie down beside her, kiss her sweetly, and gently introduce her to love the way she'd imagined so many times. But she hesitated to resist her new husband, who she loved so much and so wanted to please. And part of her was in an agony of want, despite, or maybe because the way it was happening seemed so…perverse.

As the elastic slid down, grazing her excited nipples, then baring them, and finally settled snugly under the swell of her breasts, leaving them tentatively exposed behind the gaping bodice of her unzipped wedding gown, she struggled against the overwhelming impulse to clasp her dress to her chest and hide herself.

"Look at those tits, Jenny. So pretty."

It would have been alright if he'd pressed the soft palms of his large, warm hands gently over her breasts. She expected that. Wanted it. But with mounting, painful embarrassment she watched him lift an index finger to his mouth, wet it with his tongue, and dip it carefully down, touching nothing until the cold wet of his fingertip slid against the tip of her erect nipple, which contracted instantaneously with the contact.

"You tease my cock in the nicest way when you wiggle like that, Jenny."

Could she be any more embarrassed?

All of a sudden humiliation disappeared and terror struck. Roland. Drake's friend Roland was standing in the doorway. In an eruption of panic Jenny let out a broken little squeak, shoved Drake back, and clutched her gown against her, wheeling around to face the wall and try to cover herself as quickly and completely as possible.

"Roland," Drakes voice rolled out smooth and warm, "you filthy peeping Tom. What are you doing here?"

"Just dropping off all the gifts, Drake. Like you asked."

"Right."

Drake turned from the doorway toward Jenny where she was trying not to crumple to the floor in total humiliation.

"Wasn’t that sweet of Roland, honey, taking care of that for us?"

"Yes." Her voice came out high and tight.

"Well, come over here and say 'thank you.'"

How could she look at him after what he'd seen? She took three deep breaths and still clutching her dress with the desperation of a drowning woman clinging to a floating scrap of wood, turned and faced him.

"Thanks, Roland," she forced out, certain her attempt at a friendly smile had completely failed.

"You know, Roland," Drake mused as he came to stand behind Jenny, wrapping his arms around her waist and holding her to him, instantly giving her a sense of protected warmth, "the whole time Jenny and I have been together, we didn't go one hair past first base. Jenny here's the genuine article. A real life virgin bride. And none of that technical virginity. She's no 'everything but' girl."

What was he saying? Why was he telling Roland this?

"Just seconds before you came in, Rols, I saw and touched her tits for the very first time. What do you think of that?"

Roland grinned.

"I think you're a lucky guy, Drake."

Roland didn't seem the least bit embarrassed by the intimate details Drake had thrust upon him.

"I am, Rols. Very, very lucky. But you know me, I'm a man who likes to share his good fortune."

Drake tipped his head and kissed Jenny's cheek warmly, then drawled, his lips brushing against her ear, "Jenny, sweet, you like Rols, don't you?"

"Yes, of course, I…" Jenny was struggling to be polite as her brain tried to make sense of the strange things Drake was saying, the way he was acting. He couldn't very well ask Roland to leave. It wouldn't be polite, especially considering he'd just loaded up a whole truckload of their gifts and driven them over from the reception. But he could at least invite him downstairs for a drink and give her a chance to zip up. Or change.

"Good. Because this is a very special night, for both of us, and I wouldn't want anything to spoil it. Now give Rols a kiss."

Confused, clueless, really, Jenny was about to step forward and give Drake's—their—friend a warm kiss on the cheek, but Drake didn't let her out of his embrace. Instead, Roland stepped toward her, bent, and kissed her lips. She started and blushed even before he moved in to kiss her again, this time drawing her bottom lip between his and brushing over it with his warm, wet tongue.

Jenny gasped and tried to jerk away, but Drake's embrace tightened around her, trapping her crossed arms against her belly as Roland sank his fingers into her hair and pressed his mouth to hers, driving his tongue between her lips.

God, what was happening? Her husband holding her still like a hostage, his friend forcing a passionate kiss on her, and her own body filling with an urgent gorgeous heat that almost drowned her panic and anxiety.

"Hasn't my wife got a sweet little mouth, Rols?"

"Mmmm. Soft, full lips," Roland groaned, gently kissing her top, then her bottom lip. "And a teasing little tongue that pretends to be hiding, then caresses your tongue so ardently."

"Drake," she sobbed, "what are you doing?"

"Teaching my virgin bride about sex, of course."

From behind he kissed her ear, licking and sucking it in a way that seemed obscene, then caused another flood of arousal to wash over her.

"Rols. Pull down the front of her dress. You won't believe what pretty tits she's got."

"Now why would that surprise me?"

Jenny writhed pointlessly against the vice grip of her husband's arms as Roland peeled the white satin bodice of her gown down to her waist. Her breasts pointed toward him through the delicate fabric of the little beige slip. Roland stepped in closer, until his body was almost pressed against hers, and curved his hands against the outer swells of her breasts, his hands drifting forward and back with the in and out of her panicked breathing. Then, gazing first at Drake, then at Jenny, Roland brought his fingertips against the pads of his thumbs and gently pinched her nipples, rolling and gently tugging them, rubbing them through the thin fabric.

"Drake! Drake, please!" Jenny whimpered through shocking pleasure and terrible confusion.

Drake said nothing, and just kept her pinned in his embrace as Roland released her nipples with a final rousing pinch, then unceremoniously tugged down the flimsy bit of beige fabric, letting her bare breasts spring free.

"Your husband's right, Jenny dear. You're breasts are gorgeous."

Roland traced the shape of them with delicate fingers, circling, converging, traversing. Then, with nothing more than a look and a smile, it seemed Roland directed Drake to draw her elbows behind her back and force her into a wanton arch, thrusting her naked breasts up toward his mouth. She felt Roland's hands lightly curve at her waist as he bent and sucked one hard, jutting nipple into his mouth. She whimpered as he began to suck, strumming his firm tongue back and forth over the throbbing tip of her breast, then let it go, the pulsing throbs swelling and fading again and again long after his mouth was off her. He bent again, this time running his tongue up the soft flesh of her other breast, then over the taut, constricted circle of dark flesh, flicking her erect nipple before sucking it into his mouth.

"Fuck, Jenny," Drake moaned, "if you thought my cock was hard in the limo, you should feel it now."

He caught her wrist and molded her hand over his fierce erection, pumping in a slow rhythm against her palm.

"Are you was wet as I am hard, Jenny dear?"

Suddenly Drake was reaching around, hiking up the front of her gown, reaching underneath, working his hand down into her stockings and panties as Roland went on nursing at her nipple. Gasping, unable to speak to protest, she felt his finger slide against her, wild sensation exploding between her thighs as he rubbed her in tiny, delicate strokes.

"Fuck, that's an awfully wet little cunt, Jenny."

She writhed, whimpering as Drake went on touching her, gliding his finger back and forth between her slippery folds as Roland cupped, squeezed and sucked her breasts.

"Mmm, you like that, don't you, my naughty girl."

"Don't let her cum, Drake."

"No?'

"No," Roland panted with a lecherous grin. "I want to eat her, make her cum with my mouth."

"There's a pretty picture. Come over here, Jenny."

Drake led her firmly toward a big upholstered armchair in the corner.

"Drake, what are you doing? Please Drake. Please. I don't want this."

"Sweet Jenny. The only reason you don’t want this is because you don't dare to want it." Then he gave her a soft, lingering kiss. "I love you, Jenny. And nothing that happens here tonight is going to change that."

He sat her down on the edge of the chair and she watched, trembling, confused, aroused beyond her wildest imagination as he dropped to his knees and reached up underneath all those gathered yards of white fabric and tugged her panties and stockings down, drawing them over her knees, pressed tightly together, around the smooth curves of her heels, and off, dropping them in a tiny little heap beside the chair.

"Pull up your dress, Jenny," Roland said, his hand meandering up and down over his erection.

"Go on, hon," Drake encouraged.

She could hardly believe it as her own hands gathered up fistfuls of wedding dress, and shakily began gathering it in her lap.

"Now spread your legs, Jenny. Show us your cunt."

Nothing within her understanding could have explained why, but she did as Drake asked, and spread her legs, giving her husband and his friend a clear view of her cunt.

"Holy fuck. Jenny, I swear to you, I've never been this hot in my whole life. You spreading like that for me and Rols, you're incredible, darling." Now Drake, too, was rubbing his hard-on through his trousers as they both gazed at her naked sex. "Rols, why don't you let her have a look at your cock. No fair, making her show hers without reciprocating."

Roland eagerly complied, unbuttoning, unzipping, and drawing forth a long, hard prick, pinkish purple, around which his fingers seemed barely able to meet, and the length of which extended beyond his fist at both ends. Watching her, he began to slowly stroke it. After a few moments he dropped to his knees beside Drake, and each of them took a leg, drawing her knees up high, perching her feet on the edge of the chair, spreading her wide. Drake took her hand and pressed his lips to her ankle, then rested his head against her calf as Roland moved in and put his tongue to her, lightly drawing it up along her wet folds, making her shudder violently. Deliciously. That feeling; it was unlike anything she'd ever imagined, unlike any sensation she'd ever experienced the few times she'd guiltily, clumsily touched herself. His tongue, soft and wet, seemed perfectly made for caressing something as delicate, as sensitive as her sex. Even as she sat there, dying of shame, of guilt, painfully confused about what this meant for her and Drake, what she felt, more than anything, was an exquisite pleasure she'd never dreamed of, and a desperate, primal need for more.

Roland was stroking his hard prick in earnest, fisting the shaft, sliding his palm over the sensitive head, now and then reaching down to caress and tug his balls as he tongued Jenny's slick cunt, opening her with each swipe of his tongue along her slit, only occasionally pausing to flicker against the swollen bud of her clit, making her yelp behind bitten lips each time, then sliding down again, tonguing her juicy creases, or closing his lips over her, working his whole mouth against her as she wiggled and sighed.

"Jenny," Drake called to her softly from where he watched every tiny detail of what his friend was doing to his wife, "touch your nipples for me, darling."

She just stared down at him in aroused awe, almost beyond thinking at this point, and wide-eyed and panting, slowly shook her head.

"Don't be shy, sweetheart. It'll feel good, and I want to watch you."

Roland went on eating her throbbing, seeping cunt as she shyly brought her fingers to her nipples and tentatively touched them.

"That's perfect, just like that, darling. Rols, stop what you're doing a sec, back off a little."

Jenny inadvertently whimpered with unexpected want as Roland took his mouth from her. Now she felt Drake's hand gliding along her inner thigh, then he was touching her where Roland's mouth had been, and she keened and writhed though she tried to be still and silent as he slid his finger between her lips and against her opening. Slowly the whole length of his finger sunk into her, making her catch and hold her breath and grip the arms of the chair in startled fear. Then she was panting as he slowly withdrew his finger, then thrust it up inside her again a little more suddenly and forcefully.

"Lick her cunt, Rols, while I finger her. Let's get her off."

Roland's tongue brushed over her clit and she groaned long and low in spite of herself, her body was so overwhelmed at having that caress again. She was dying of shame, of embarrassment beyond endurance or imagination as her husband slid his finger in and out of her wet pussy, as Roland knelt between her splayed legs licking her, but the worst shame was that she didn't want them to stop until the agonizing pleasure that was building to bursting under Roland's tongue, against Drake's penetrating finger, was released. She had never wanted, ached for anything this way in her life. It was coming, she felt it swelling, she was almost crying with need of it.

"Do you need another finger, Jenny?"

"Huh?" she panted out, a question barely distinguishable from the groaning breaths that were coming faster and harder each second.

"Ask me, Jenny. Ask me to put another finger inside of you."

"I…I don't…" Confusion, shame, anticipation were pulling her apart, and she was speechless.

"Ask me."

His hand stopped moving, and suddenly she missed, desperately needed that slow, rhythmic penetration back.

"Drake," was all she could bear to say.

"Ask me, Jenny."

"Please Drake." She was nearly crying, Roland still eagerly mouthing, licking, sucking her as he groaned against her, stroking himself.

"Please what?"

"Please…" she whimpered, "please put another finger inside me."

"Of course, darling. Anything you need."

Drake slowly stuffed two fingers into Jenny's virgin cunt, then began fucking her, so slowly it was a tormenting tease. She writhed and moaned, Drake's fingers pumping in and out, Roland's hot mouth caressing her sensitive bud. Suddenly, with a force that frightened as much as fulfilled, Jenny's climax struck, forcing a long, almost howling groan from her as she sobbed and convulsed under Drake's and Roland's caresses.

As the world came back into focus, she looked down at her husband and his friend gazing up at her. Now that the aching need of her body had been sated the full weight of her shame crashed down on her. She felt her throat closing with pending tears. But then Drake gave her such a smile, so open and warm and full of love that suddenly her guilt felt strangely…wrong. Almost ridiculous. And a moment later, she was too astonished to give her guilt any more thought. Because Drake, still smiling warmly, turned to Roland and said,

"How does my wife taste, Rols?"

And Roland playfully replied, "You should really find out for yourself, don't you think?"

And Drake said, "Oh, yes," and then, as she watched, her husband leaned forward and kissed his friend. A real, deep, hot tongue kiss. Even more than every incredible, frightening thing that had happened in that room, that kiss shook up everything about Jenny's brand new world. What her marriage was. What Drake was. What she was. Because mingled with her shock there was a deep, physical excitement in seeing her husband's tongue slide between Roland's lips, in watching their lips kissing, caressing, sucking.

"Delicious," Drake sighed as his and Roland's mouths parted.

Again Drake looked up at her, his eyes bright and playful and adoring, his smile warm and earnest. How could one look from him unsettle her shock, which was so deep and which was rooted in her fundamental understanding of the world?

O O O O O

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?


Thank you!

-Varian
 
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Serendipity and A Lovely Read

I was surprised to see your name on the SDC line on the main forum menu, Varian, this evening. It has been ages since I've entered anything here, but I decided to take the plunge with you tonight.

And why, might you ask? Because a lovely, passionate woman I am very much connected to in a deliciously deviant way told me last night that she was reading your stories - and liking them very much.

Anyway, here are my impressions.


1. How was the dialog? Overall, I felt it had the sound of real voices, without coming across as stilted or forced. I could imagine Drake and Jenny speaking those words.


2. Did the bedroom scene come across as scripted by the two men? Absolutely. Though I would quibble with how you described Drake's first words to Roland.

"Roland," Drakes voice rolled out smooth and warm, "you filthy peeping Tom. What are you doing here?"

The description of his voice just doesn't sound quite right to me. It comes across as making it too overt that this was a set-up. I'd describe his voice in the paragraph before, as being smooth and in-control when he tells Jenny how he likes the way she wiggles like that; and then link back to it by indicating that his tone of voice was unchanged from before.


3. Do they come across as rapists? Nope. I think you've balanced the shame and embarrassment Jenny feels with her rapidly escalating ardor and passion. The mixed feelings she is experiencing sound convincing to me.



A couple of other things I want to comment on, too.

The first paragraph is tripped up a bit, by some uneven punctuation and pacing.

She didn't know quite how it had happened. But it had. Her twenty-fourth birthday came and went, and there she was, still unmarried. Worse. Practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys, here and there, who'd taken momentary interest, asked her out, sometimes to dinner, sometimes to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vale.

I'd make it "... No, it was worse than that - she was practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys here and there who'd taken a momentary interest in her and had asked her out. Sometimes to dinner, or to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple of casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vail."

There's a few other places like that, but overall, the words flowed well, and it was easy to read - and an interesting read. You've done a very good job of balancing the sensual with the story line.

My only other suggestion is that there be just a little more description of the fairy-tale courtship between the first date and his asking her to marry him. Not a lot of direct action or dialog, but a little more backstory to set the stage for the wedding night surprise and conflict to come. Maybe another paragraph or two at most. I don't want to see the conflicted and somewhat abrupt change in Jenny's world to be dissipated by too many words.

But overall, a very good foundation on which to build. Congratulations. I shall reward the one who told me about you, and make it a point to read some more.


Sin.
 
re: Serendipity and a Lovely Read

Sin,

Serendipitous indeed; I'm charmed to have this thread mark your returne to the SDC after you long absence, especially given the source of your inspiration.

Singularity said:
...I would quibble with how you described Drake's first words to Roland.

The description of his voice just doesn't sound quite right to me. It comes across as making it too overt that this was a set-up. I'd describe his voice in the paragraph before, as being smooth and in-control when he tells Jenny how he likes the way she wiggles like that; and then link back to it by indicating that his tone of voice was unchanged from before.

Thanks for pointing this out, and for the suggested remedy--very helpful.

Singularity said:
1. How was the dialog? Overall, I felt it had the sound of real voices, without coming across as stilted or forced. I could imagine Drake and Jenny speaking those words.
2. Did the bedroom scene come across as scripted by the two men? Absolutely.
3. Do they come across as rapists? Nope. I think you've balanced the shame and embarrassment Jenny feels with her rapidly escalating ardor and passion. The mixed feelings she is experiencing sound convincing to me.

I'm pleased to hear it.

Singularity said:
A couple of other things I want to comment on, too.

The first paragraph is tripped up a bit, by some uneven punctuation and pacing.

I'd make it "... No, it was worse than that - she was practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys here and there who'd taken a momentary interest in her and had asked her out. Sometimes to dinner, or to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple of casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vail."

There's a few other places like that...

Again, thanks for pointing this out. I do have a tendency to do a lot of...shall we say creative punctuation and phrasing/sentence structure, and I think you're right--it can make for a bumpy read. Especially in the opening paragraph in a story, I don't want the reader struggling through the prose like a porsche with a flat on a washed out road.

Singularity said:
My only other suggestion is that there be just a little more description of the fairy-tale courtship between the first date and his asking her to marry him. Not a lot of direct action or dialog, but a little more backstory to set the stage for the wedding night surprise and conflict to come. Maybe another paragraph or two at most. I don't want to see the conflicted and somewhat abrupt change in Jenny's world to be dissipated by too many words.

Hmmmm....perhaps you're right. I'm a little resistant to this idea, in part because "The Wedding Night" is intended as a story within a story--a little fantasy written by a character in my "Changed Girl" novel, and so I'm eager to keep it lean, but also because I'm rather happy with the way the characters are virtually unknown to us by the time they're in the limo and the nuptial chamber because that reflects, in a way, how they really don't know each other after their brief courtship.

On the other hand, your idea is ripe with potential for an impressionistic sketch of a scene or two from their relationship that would make for an even more poignant surprise when Drake gets going with the naughtiness. I'll give this some thought.

Singularity said:
overall, the words flowed well, and it was easy to read - and an interesting read. You've done a very good job of balancing the sensual with the story line.

...a very good foundation on which to build. Congratulations. I shall reward the one who told me about you, and make it a point to read some more.

Thank you for the kind words, and I'm certainly glad if I've in any way played a part in your friend earning a reward. I hope my other writings bring her more good fortune.

-Varian
 
1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

I think it’s fine. I’m not getting a “saucy and playful” vibe from it. It seems that the saucy is a little forced with Drake’s dialogue.

With Jenny, her dialogue is strange to me when they are having the conversation in the limo. It makes me wonder what era this story is taking place in for a woman to have known a man for five weeks and not be able to share openly with him about her sexual experiences. If I’m to think modern times, say in the last 20 or 30 years, they maybe have had that talk at some point during a date. If I’m to think in anything beyond that then perhaps I could wrap my mind around it, her high level of naivety. I’m guessing from the use of the reference about the Gilmore Girls this is present day?

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

Yes it seems obvious that they set it up ahead of time. Is that not your intent? The character’s actions in the scene don’t seem spontaneous.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?

I’m not getting a rapists vibe from it. The only problem that I have with it is that I’m not feeling that Jenny’s reaction was genuine or in her character. I don’t think she put up “enough” protest. Even though the narrator tells the reader how ashamed and scared and nervous she is I didn’t see that in her actions. I’m also not getting that this is something that she already wants. You’ve painted her as a woman how has no experience with sex and for all we know has no interests, via fantasies or expectations of what sex with her future husband will be like. How would it be something she actually wants if she herself doesn’t know what that is? How could that realization come upon her in one event, not to mention an event of this magnitude? Two men? Most experienced women would go into sensory overload with two guys wanting them. I would assume it would be more than overwhelming for a true blue virgin.

Some other things:

I feel that this piece would benefit from a different POV. I would have liked first person. I’m not a big fan of the familiar tone narrator of this POV. In lines like:
Alright, there'd been a couple guys, here and there, who'd taken momentary interest, asked her out, sometimes to dinner, sometimes to the movies.

But so dreamy. Fine, it sounded corny, ...

With first person you could have illustrated Jenny’s reactions to the sex with her new husband and his friend a little better. Then you could have told me more by way of her thoughts then you showed by way of her actions.

Again, the limo ride is a bit akward. It seems like this is the first time they ever had a conversation, let alone talk about something intimate. I think that tears away from your credibility. If it was your purpose to make her more focused on “beating the clock” to get married before a certain age I think that needs a little more attention, otherwise I’m left wondering what was her real purpose for marrying a man she can’t even, at the very least, talk to.


She didn't understand. He didn't sound jealous. On the contrary, he seemed, well, turned on. After the couple glasses of champagne she'd had at the reception, the idea that already, before they'd even gotten to his house—their house—she was arousing her husband, just with words, made her giddy with arousal and, well, pride.

This seems off. She’s stand-offish and reluctant up till now but you throw in that she’s proud of being able to arouse her husband with only words? I’m not buying it. If that was so, why doesn’t she act on it? Why doesn’t that fact open her up for the conversation, why is she still hesitant to devulge intimate details. The realization that she’s turning her man on tells me that she’s at least in tune with the man and in tune with her own desires, whatever they may be, we don’t know yet. You could flush that out here. Maybe even more so if the POV was Jenny’s.
Because then you do this:

He put the hand he'd been holding on his thigh. Suddenly she was thinking about his body. Through the smooth fabric of his trousers she could feel that his thigh was firm, almost hard with muscle. It felt so different from her own thighs which, though reasonably toned, were soft by comparison. She wondered if the rest of him could be so hard. Soon she'd know, she thought with another blush, how his chest, his back, his stomach felt. And not through clothes. The thought of his naked body scared her at the same time it aroused her.

Why is she scared? Scared is a heavy word. Maybe something like it intimidated her or overwhelmed her? Take advantage of her previous new found knowledge about turning on her new husband and let that awaken her sexually. Then that could better sell how she would give into the advances later.

It would have been alright if he'd pressed the soft palms of his large, warm hands gently over her breasts. She expected that. Wanted it. But with mounting, painful embarrassment she watched him lift an index finger to his mouth, wet it with his tongue, and dip it carefully down, touching nothing until the cold wet of his fingertip slid against the tip of her erect nipple, which contracted instantaneously with the contact.

“You tease my cock in the nicest way when you wiggle like that, Jenny."

Could she be any more embarrassed?

I think there should be a way for you to show her embarrassment in these scenes. Does she fight to cover herself? Does she turn away and avoid looking into his eyes? Show us something here.

To go back to the purpose of these two individuals getting married in the first place. How could a “good Christian girl”, a virgin in every sexual sense of the word, go so easily into an act like this? Sex with two men is, you have to admit extreme for someone with zero experience. (Not to mention her sexual experience and upbringing doesn’t jive with the way she reacted to her new husband kissing another man – interesting twist but I’m not buying it)
I think there has to be something more between Jenny and Drake before he would spring something like this on her. I like how he has preserved this virgin for something so...perverse, but I don’t like that Jenny has zero motivation for going along with it. There is no sexual motivation- we barely see that she’s even interested in sex. There is no emotional motivation - we don’t see that she’s is even perhaps submissive or eager to please Drake for whatever reason. There isn’t anything. It’s just thrust upon both the reader and Jenny. She doesn’t even struggle with herself and how she was raised.


There were times when you did too much of this: –describing action in multiples–

Roland eagerly complied, unbuttoning, unzipping, and drawing forth a long, hard prick,




Overall it’s a good piece. I appreciate you sharing it.

SW
 
Hi Varian,

Thanks for sharing. Even though I've precious little positive to contribute :( I wouldn't want you to imagine for an instant I don't think highly of your skills as an author. If I wasn't sleepy just now, I'd probably go and read Changed Girl. More on this after the answers to the specific questions.

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.
I'm afraid I rolled my eyes at some of those lines, especially after Roland shows up. I just couldn't believe them. Although there are others, this one really stuck out:
"Just seconds before you came in, Rols, I saw and touched her tits for the very first time. What do you think of that?"

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?
The swine planned it ahead of time. No doubt.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?
I'm not sure what I think but I suppose if you make me pick between those two, I'll have to say the latter since she hasn't screamed bloody murder yet.



As you must have already guessed, I didn't care much for the story. I really didn't feel any urge to eviscerate; it just didn't work for me at any level.

The opening is dry like a history lesson. Come to think of it, it is a history lesson. It's so devoid of conflict and action that I bothered to stop reading and went to take a peek at another of your stories just to compare. Changed Girl- now there's an opening! She's running so hard her chest hurts. I don't even know who she is, but I'm with her. I don't know anything about her, but I want to know everything.

The opening to Wedding Night is just the opposite. It's like those elderly ladies at the supermarket, the ones that want to tell you their life story because you gave them the opening when you asked them where the ice cream aisle is and they just go on and on kinda like this sentence or maybe one of those posts by RideMeCowgirl and you're trying to smile and be polite but you're not hearing much because you're too busy thinking, I'm sorry, but I really just don't care about your second honeymoon in Wichita and the first time they pause to take a breath you say "Thanks!" and then run as fast as you can the other direction and never look back and by then you don't even remember you wanted ice cream in the first place?

Then, after all this buildup about what a good girl she is and how she'll sleep on a couch rather than fuck anyone other than her future husband, what does she do? I'm just not willing to believe she's going to yield to this surprise after saving herself for all those years. That I hadn't seen Roland before didn't help but even if I had I couldn't come close to believing she'd allow both men to touch her without a fight, especially after one of my favorite parts:
.... afraid that her dream date was about to be forever sullied in her memory, that a hundred tiny hopes that were taking shape were about to be crushed by a request to come inside, or a premature and presumptuous attempt at a tongue kiss...
She's worried about this first date with a new boyfriend being sullied forever by a French kiss, but a threesome on the wedding night she's been saving herself for is ok?


And why hasn't she found someone by her mid twenties? Surely there are young men in her church? She's apparently far from ugly. Is she too picky? Looks to me like not picky enough. I think this underscores how I may know her history, but I still don't know her.

*sigh* I'm not sure what else to say. I thought your other story was so intriguing, this one leaves me completely scratching my head. Or maybe it's just me without enough sleep. Who knows?

Hope some of that helps.

Take Care,
Penny
 
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... and your little dog too.

Wow. What a trio of differing responses. Now I really feel like the wicked witch of the west.
 
Hi, ScarletWings. Thanks for taking the time to read, and for such a thorough, thoughtful response.

Your critique makes me realize the degree to which I'm drawing on attributes of a character that I understand in my head, but which I haven't fleshed out on the page nearly enough so that the reader can hold onto characteristics I'm taking for granted.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
With Jenny, her dialogue is strange to me when they are having the conversation in the limo. It makes me wonder what era this story is taking place in for a woman to have known a man for five weeks and not be able to share openly with him about her sexual experiences. If I’m to think modern times, say in the last 20 or 30 years, they maybe have had that talk at some point during a date. If I’m to think in anything beyond that then perhaps I could wrap my mind around it, her high level of naivety. I’m guessing from the use of the reference about the Gilmore Girls this is present day?

I hope you'll pardon a lengthy response--this is really very helpful for me in thinking through what I want Jenny to be, and how I want her character to come across.

It is set in the present day. Jenny is certainly meant to be innocent, in the sense that she is a true blue virgin with essentially zero sexual experience, but not naive, really. She's dealt with discussing sex with the men in her life on the level of stating her belief in abstinence until marriage, but hasn't had any experience talking openly and comfortably about her desires or interests, because she's not sexually active. It's true, it isn't my world (and no doubt this is glaringly obvious), but aren't there people out there, even people who've been having sex for years, who aren't capable of having a forthright discussion about their sexuality?

Jenny knows what sex is and knows she and her new hubby are going to have some when they get home. :) What she's envisioned, and what she's prepared for, is the kind of soft-focus romantic encounter one might see in a certain genre of Hollywood movie, when the nice man tenderly introduces his virgin beloved to the ways of love. Her vision is all candle light and her in a pretty nightie, him slowly and carefully undressing her, tender kisses, gentle caresses, etc. And what she gets intead is a grope in the back of the limo and a bit of dirty talk. Because Drake's been such the gentleman during their relationship, this behavior is surprising, and because she's knocked off balance by it, she doesn't know how to respond.

I might do well to heed your advice and Sin's, and get at Jenny's character and expectations a little better with a key scene or two from her relationship wtih D. pre-wedding.


oOScarletWingsOo said:
Yes it seems obvious that they set it up ahead of time. Is that not your intent? The character’s actions in the scene don’t seem spontaneous.

Good, that was precisely my intent.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I’m not getting a rapists vibe from it. The only problem that I have with it is that I’m not feeling that Jenny’s reaction was genuine or in her character. I don’t think she put up “enough” protest. Even though the narrator tells the reader how ashamed and scared and nervous she is I didn’t see that in her actions. I’m also not getting that this is something that she already wants. You’ve painted her as a woman how has no experience with sex and for all we know has no interests, via fantasies or expectations of what sex with her future husband will be like. How would it be something she actually wants if she herself doesn’t know what that is? How could that realization come upon her in one event, not to mention an event of this magnitude? Two men? Most experienced women would go into sensory overload with two guys wanting them. I would assume it would be more than overwhelming for a true blue virgin.

I suspect you're dead right, here. I've given myself quite a hurdle, I fear, because I don't want Jenny to freak out so much that Drake (& Rols) comes off as sexually assaulting her, or even getting her to do something she finds abhorrent just out of some desperate need to please or keep her new husband. On the other hand, I want to avoid a long, drawn out emotional struggle and discussion (which as some SDC-ers can testify, I'm quite prone to do).

My intent is to portray her, not as rationally deciding this is what she wants, but rather, succumbing to the physical arousal and pleasure they're causing. I'm also attempting to convey that the pleasure alone wouldn't be enough, but that Drake's total comfort with what's happening, the way he's smiling at her, is disarming, and assuages much of the guilty weirdness of it for her.

However, I see quite well that, yes, her acceptance of what's happening comes too quickly and easily for belief. I'll have to think how to make it a bit more plausible.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I feel that this piece would benefit from a different POV. I would have liked first person. I’m not a big fan of the familiar tone narrator of this POV. In lines like:
With first person you could have illustrated Jenny’s reactions to the sex with her new husband and his friend a little better. Then you could have told me more by way of her thoughts then you showed by way of her actions.

If I have one fatal flaw (as a writer, and that I'm well aware of, anyway) it's my endless, losing battle with POV. What I'm attempting here is to do 3rd person narration, but it's meant to be Jenny's voice, with her thoughts and then only observations about other characters actions, facial expressions, etc. 3rd person limited omniscient, is it? I'll give your suggestion some thought.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
Again, the limo ride is a bit akward. It seems like this is the first time they ever had a conversation, let alone talk about something intimate. I think that tears away from your credibility. If it was your purpose to make her more focused on “beating the clock” to get married before a certain age I think that needs a little more attention, otherwise I’m left wondering what was her real purpose for marrying a man she can’t even, at the very least, talk to.

An important point—thank you. I don't have in mind that Jenny settles because she needs to beat the clock, rather that she has a (not very carefully self-examined) certainty that she is supposed to get married, and that that has been the main focus of her adult life. I actually mean for her to be genuinely in love with Drake, though as you've observed, she really doesn't know him well. I have in mind that Drake actually understands her much better than she understands him, in large part because he's older and has experience, and so is better able to understand people, their characters, their motivations, etc. I shall definitely endeavor to elaborate more on Jenny's feelings for Drake, and his emotional/psychological hold on her.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
This seems off. She’s stand-offish and reluctant up till now but you throw in that she’s proud of being able to arouse her husband with only words? I’m not buying it. If that was so, why doesn’t she act on it? Why doesn’t that fact open her up for the conversation, why is she still hesitant to devulge intimate details. The realization that she’s turning her man on tells me that she’s at least in tune with the man and in tune with her own desires, whatever they may be, we don’t know yet. You could flush that out here. Maybe even more so if the POV was Jenny’s.

Again, thank you for pointing this out. I don't mean for Jenny to come off as stand-offish, only taken aback and nervous, and reluctant, initially, to have her first sexual encounter, the consummation of her marriage, play out in a way that doesn't jive with her fantasy image. As you say, I think I ought to flush this out more.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
Why is she scared? Scared is a heavy word. Maybe something like it intimidated her or overwhelmed her? Take advantage of her previous new found knowledge about turning on her new husband and let that awaken her sexually. Then that could better sell how she would give into the advances later.

Perhaps you're right. Scared is a strong word, but I think it's reasonable that she's scared—about to be stripped naked by a man, about to be fucked for the first time—there's fear of the unknown, and fear of the possible pain of losing her virginity. She's dealing with lots of conflicting feelings—like fear and arousal—and even as the arousal builds, the fear won't really go away until she's experienced what it is she's also a bit afraid to experience.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I think there should be a way for you to show her embarrassment in these scenes. Does she fight to cover herself? Does she turn away and avoid looking into his eyes? Show us something here.

You're absolutely right. I especially like the idea of using her eyes—her not making eye contact, turning away from seeing certain things, etc., as a way of showing her embarrassment.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
To go back to the purpose of these two individuals getting married in the first place. How could a “good Christian girl”, a virgin in every sexual sense of the word, go so easily into an act like this? Sex with two men is, you have to admit extreme for someone with zero experience. (Not to mention her sexual experience and upbringing doesn’t jive with the way she reacted to her new husband kissing another man – interesting twist but I’m not buying it) I think there has to be something more between Jenny and Drake before he would spring something like this on her. I like how he has preserved this virgin for something so...perverse, but I don’t like that Jenny has zero motivation for going along with it. There is no sexual motivation- we barely see that she’s even interested in sex. There is no emotional motivation - we don’t see that she’s is even perhaps submissive or eager to please Drake for whatever reason. There isn’t anything. It’s just thrust upon both the reader and Jenny. She doesn’t even struggle with herself and how she was raised.

Yes, her quick submission to such perversion is pretty implausible, I agree. I'm glad you like Drake's perverse notion of doing this while she's a virgin, rather than waiting until she's more experienced, and that's really the key thing here. It's not just that he wants to have a threesome with his wife and his friend. He's looking to shock and overwhelm, not to be cruel, but to have, and to give, an incredible experience, and to wallow a bit in his perversity. Fine. But why should she go for it?

In part, what they're doing to her just feels so good that she wants to keep going, and I've tried to explicitly convey that (though perhaps I need to play it up a bit more). But psychologically there's more going on, which I probably need to flesh out better. There's a clear conflict between the way she's lived her life, and the notions of the world she's gotten from the church, her family and friends, versus what Drake is, and what he's suddenly exposing her to. She's already sort of chosen Drake over her family, when she went ahead with the wedding against their wishes. In one sense, Jenny is making choices about which authority figure to "obey": her family and the church, or her new husband (who isn't a parent, but who is quite a bit older and whom she sees as a kind of authority figure at this stage of her life/their relationship). But Jenny's also figuring out (at this point on a subconscious level) who she is and what she wants.

If Drake came off as being mean during all of this, like he was humiliating her and treating her like a "slut," Jenny would be out of there. But she feels his love through all of it, and a warmth and ease with it all that makes her feel (she isn't thinking a whole lot through this) that it must all be okay.

I envision the conscious struggle, the thinking through of church doctrine and all as happening as she lays awake all night, or the following day, when the flush of excitement and champagne and multiple orgasms has worn off.



oOScarletWingsOo said:
Overall it’s a good piece. I appreciate you sharing it.

SW

Thank you, and again, thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful critique. Responding to your points has helped me to nail down what I want Jenny, and her experience to be. It's been invaluable to me.

Gratefully,
Varian
 
Hi Penny,

Thanks for reading, and for your comments. Of course, it feels nice to have one's ego eternally stroked with flattery, but the temporary pain of frank criticism is probably more likely to help me improve.

You mention my "Changed Girl" story, and yes, it's very different. I seldom write a character like Jenny, and perhaps I'll avoid it altogether in the future. :)

Penelope Street said:
Hi Varian,
1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.
I'm afraid I rolled my eyes at some of those lines, especially after Roland shows up. I just couldn't believe them.

Good to know. I'll have a look and rethink their talk.

Penelope Street said:
As you must have already guessed, I didn't care much for the story. I really didn't feel any urge to eviscerate; it just didn't work for me at any level.

Fair enough, and I especially appreciate you taking the time to comment, despite this--something I'm almost incapable of.

Penelope Street said:
The opening is dry like a history lesson. Come to think of it, it is a history lesson. It's so devoid of conflict and action that I bothered to stop reading and went to take a peek at another of your stories just to compare. Changed Girl- now there's an opening! She's running so hard her chest hurts. I don't even know who she is, but I'm with her. I don't know anything about her, but I want to know everything.

The opening to Wedding Night is just the opposite. It's like those elderly ladies at the supermarket, the ones that want to tell you their life story because you gave them the opening when you asked them where the ice cream aisle is and they just go on and on kinda like this sentence or maybe one of those posts by RideMeCowgirl and you're trying to smile and be polite but you're not hearing much because you're too busy thinking, I'm sorry, but I really just don't care about your second honeymoon in Wichita and the first time they pause to take a breath you say "Thanks!" and then run as fast as you can the other direction and never look back and by then you don't even remember you wanted ice cream in the first place?

Good to know. It was a deliberate choice to have a mundane opening (though I tried to make the narrative voice a bit colorful, and fear I failed there), because I wanted a big contrast between Jenny's dull life pre-Drake, and the wild adventure of the wedding night. But I certainly don't want to bore readers to the brink of suicide making that point. :)

Penelope Street said:
Then, after all this buildup about what a good girl she is and how she'll sleep on a couch rather than fuck anyone other than her future husband, what does she do? I'm just not willing to believe she's going to yield to this surprise after saving herself for all those years. That I hadn't seen Roland before didn't help but even if I had I couldn't come close to believing she'd allow both men to touch her without a fight, especially after one of my favorite parts:
".... afraid that her dream date was about to be forever sullied in her memory, that a hundred tiny hopes that were taking shape were about to be crushed by a request to come inside, or a premature and presumptuous attempt at a tongue kiss... "
She's worried about this first date with a new boyfriend being sullied forever by a French kiss, but a threesome on the wedding night she's been saving herself for is ok?

I was already uneasy with Jenny's quick acceptance of what Drake and Roland are doing, and you and ScarletWings have convinced me that I need to do a bit of work before this is even remotely plausible. I think it will be incredible, no matter what motivation or rationalization I give Jenny, but perhaps I can keep it from being unfathomably ridiculous. I've made it hard for myself, because I so like the idea of the extreme situation--her so inexperienced and innocent, and the sexual encounter Drake has orchestrated is so...anti-vanilla. But it's hard (at least for me) to maintain such contrast, but achieve some plausibility in it playing out (except, of course, through coercion, which I'm attempting to avoid).

Penelope Street said:
And why hasn't she found someone by her mid twenties? Surely there are young men in her church? She's apparently far from ugly. Is she too picky? Looks to me like not picky enough. I think this underscores how I may know her history, but I still don't know her.

Well said. I think the problem is that, in my mind, Jenny doesn't actually know herself all that well. I've tried to hint that there's a little something about her that conflicts with her outward manifestation of the perfect good girl, foir example in liking to call her fiance Drake because it has a dangerous ring to it. Clearly I need to fill her out as a character so she makes sense.

Penelope Street said:
*sigh* I'm not sure what else to say. I thought your other story was so intriguing, this one leaves me completely scratching my head. Or maybe it's just me without enough sleep. Who knows?

Hope some of that helps.

Take Care,
Penny

Yes, yes, very helpful. I think one of my main failures here was that I rushed (in conceiving and writing the story) to get to the juicy sexual situation, and haven't devoted enough time to developing Jenny. I'll undertake to ameliorate that, but not by extending the dry history lesson. :)

Thank you, Penny.

-Varian
 
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re: and your little dog, too

please, no! not the doggie!!
I watched Amores Perros last night, and have had all the pooch violence I can handle for the next eternity or so.

Penelope Street said:
...Now I really feel like the wicked witch of the west.

Au contraire! As the comments you and ScarletWings made gel, I'm feeling inspired to open this story, not with the history dry as 3-day-old bread, but rather with a scene of the consummation as Jenny imagines it the night before the wedding. A nice, sweet, but hopefully arousing scene to contrast what's to come, but hopefully reveal that she's got a sex drive, and other important glimpses of her character.

So again, thanks!

-V
 
Varian said:
Thanks for reading, and for your comments. Of course, it feels nice to have one's ego eternally stroked with flattery, but the temporary pain of frank criticism is probably more likely to help me improve.

No. Thank you for both sharing and being so understanding.

Varian said:
I seldom write a character like Jenny, and perhaps I'll avoid it altogether in the future

. . .

I was already uneasy with Jenny's quick acceptance of what Drake and Roland are doing, and you and ScarletWings have convinced me that I need to do a bit of work before this is even remotely plausible. I think it will be incredible, no matter what motivation or rationalization I give Jenny, but perhaps I can keep it from being unfathomably ridiculous.
After sleeping on it, I don't see why this theme can't be both plausible and steamy if the reader gets to know Jenny like I think you already know Jenny.

Varian said:
But it's hard (at least for me) to maintain such contrast, but achieve some plausibility in it playing out (except, of course, through coercion, which I'm attempting to avoid).
Yes! Please, please, please avoid that.

ScarletWings said:
I feel that this piece would benefit from a different POV. I would have liked first person.
I know I'm partial, but I still love Scarlet's suggestion about first-person. Seems like it might provide that colorful narration you wanted, especially if you keep the opening history lesson.

Speaking of history, did you consider giving the heroine a past with many suitors rather than a few? Suppose she's always had young men fawning her and several even proposed but she turned them all down. Instead of being desperate to marry any man, she's desperate to understand why she can't, as her upbringing dictates, settle on one man. See what I'm getting at?

Varian said:
I think the problem is that, in my mind, Jenny doesn't actually know herself all that well.
Perhaps this is the solution rather than the problem.



Take Care,
Penny
 
Penelope Street said:
Speaking of history, did you consider giving the heroine a past with many suitors rather than a few? Suppose she's always had young men fawning her and several even proposed but she turned them all down. Instead of being desperate to marry any man, she's desperate to understand why she can't, as her upbringing dictates, settle on one man. See what I'm getting at?

I love this idea. I never meant Jenny to be desperate or unattractive, and this minor change will do wonders for supporting the idea that Jenny has geniunely fallen for Drake, seemingly (to her) in spite of, but more truthfully, because of, the fact that he doesn't conform to her notion of what her husband should be.

Thank you!

-V
 
Wedding Night

She didn't know quite how it had happened. But it had. Her twenty-fourth birthday came and went, and there she was, still unmarried. Worse. Practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys, here and there, who'd taken momentary interest, asked her out, sometimes to dinner, sometimes to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vale.

If you mean the ski resort in Colo., it is spelled “Vail”.
………….
He coaxed her ahead of him and followed her up the stairs, then guided her down the hall to the nuptial chamber. She panted like a bunny cornered by a fox as he advanced and she backed away until she bumped against a dresser. Without embracing her he leaned in and teased her lips with his until she sought his kiss. He smiled at her as he drew back.

and into the nuptial chamber. After all, they didn’t stop in the hall.
……………….
"Look at those tits, Jenny. So pretty."

I think he would have said something a little more romantic here, when it was still just the two of them.
…………………….
Jenny writhed pointlessly against the vice grip of her husband's arms as Roland peeled the white satin bodice of her gown down to her waist. Her breasts pointed toward him through the delicate fabric of the little beige slip. Roland stepped in closer, until his body was almost pressed against hers, and curved his hands against the outer swells of her breasts, his hands drifting forward and back with the in and out of her panicked breathing. Then, gazing first at Drake, then at Jenny, Roland brought his fingertips against the pads of his thumbs and gently pinched her nipples, rolling and gently tugging them, rubbing them through the thin fabric.
……………………………….
If Drake is holding her tightly, how could her dress be peeled down? Roland would have had to pull it down inside Drake’s arms, and he would have had to loosen his grip to allow that.
…………………….
Roland eagerly complied, unbuttoning, unzipping, and drawing forth a long, hard prick, pinkish purple, around which his fingers seemed barely able to meet, and the length of which extended beyond his fist at both ends. Watching her, he began to slowly stroke it. After a few moments he dropped to his knees beside Drake, and each of them took a leg, drawing her knees up high, perching her feet on the edge of the chair, spreading her wide. Drake took her hand and pressed his lips to her ankle, then rested his head against her calf as Roland moved in and put his tongue to her, lightly drawing it up along her wet folds, making her shudder violently. Deliciously. That feeling; it was unlike anything she'd ever imagined, unlike any sensation she'd ever experienced the few times she'd guiltily, clumsily touched herself. His tongue, soft and wet, seemed perfectly made for caressing something as delicate, as sensitive as her sex. Even as she sat there, dying of shame, of guilt, painfully confused about what this meant for her and Drake, what she felt, more than anything, was an exquisite pleasure she'd never dreamed of, and a desperate, primal need for more.

You should probably take a paragraph break somewhere in here, maybe at “That feeling. That should be a full sentence, ending in an exclamation point.

O O O O O

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

It didn’t seem very playful to me. In the limo, Drake seemed condescending, as if he felt much superior to her. This could be realistic but in an offensive way. After Roland joined them, it got even worse, as the two men treated her like an object, the way they used her and the way they discussed her. The dialogue between the two men about Jenny was playful but in an even more offensive way.

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

It was obvious they planned to get together to share Jenny. Roland had been instructed to bring the gifts to the house but he would never have walked right into the bedroom like that unless he was expected. The specifics of what they do to her would probably be spontaneous.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?

I certainly think their actions would constitute rape or, at the very least, sexual battery. When Drake is holding her and Roland amuses himself with her, that would be enough right there. Although she did get sexual release, what was done was against her will. Jenny certainly did not want to spend her wedding night being shared by her husband and another man.

Thank you!

-Varian

I enjoyed the story allright but I found the two men to be extremely nasty. I believe they would be two gay men, with a long relationship, who developed a certain hetero streak, and decided to find an attractive naïve woman to use as an occasional sexual plaything. If that’s the case, they are truly rotters. Neither of them used his cock on her, probably saving that for each other later that day. Drake professed love for her and she saw, or thought she saw the emotion in his eyes. It may have been a fondness, such as he might feel for a pet, because his feelings for her are obviously not the normal love of a man for his wife.

You had quite a few sentence fragments. That is allright and it makes for good effect but you might have overdone it. Your paragraphing could be improved also.
 
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Jenny's Reaction

I'll take exception to those who thought that Jenny's reaction to Drake and Roland's revelations, and their baiting of her in her bridal suite was too subdued, and that she didn't protest more or fight.

The poor girl is in shock and she is on autopilot and completely out of her element. The way she was built up and described, I would not expect her to mount a vigorous defense or to strenuously object to what is being done with her, and in front of her.

I think the confusion and the naivete she shows is the source of the muted and unprotesting response she has to what her now-husband has unveiled in front of her.

One can argue that her out-of-her-romance-story expecations and her world-turned-upside down reaction aren't fleshed out quite enough, but I find her glazed-eyes reaction to what has turned her every dream upside down, to be both plausible and real, given the circumstances.


Sin.
 
Hello, Boxlicker. Thanks so much for reading and offering your comments.

Boxlicker101 said:
He coaxed her ahead of him and followed her up the stairs, then guided her down the hall to the nuptial chamber.
and into the nuptial chamber. After all, they didn’t stop in the hall.

Dead right--thank you. I've amended it to read He coaxed her ahead of him and followed her up the stairs, then guided her down the hall and into the nuptial chamber.

Boxlicker101 said:
Look at those tits, Jenny. So pretty.
I think he would have said something a little more romantic here, when it was still just the two of them.

Yes, I'm giving serious reconsideration to the dialogue. I did intend here that Drake be crude, because he's deliberately trying to shock and unsettle her. Still, I'm not entirely happy with his phrasing.

Boxlicker101 said:
Jenny writhed pointlessly against the vice grip of her husband's arms as Roland peeled the white satin bodice of her gown down to her waist.

If Drake is holding her tightly, how could her dress be peeled down? Roland would have had to pull it down inside Drake’s arms, and he would have had to loosen his grip to allow that.

Good catch--I'll fix that.

Boxlicker101 said:
1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

It didn’t seem very playful to me. In the limo, Drake seemed condescending, as if he felt much superior to her. This could be realistic but in an offensive way. After Roland joined them, it got even worse, as the two men treated her like an object, the way they used her and the way they discussed her. The dialogue between the two men about Jenny was playful but in an even more offensive way.

I appreciate getting your feedback on how this is coming across, and, given various comments I've been getting here, I know the dialogue is not working as I intended. Much like the story itself, of course, it's not meant to be PC. Drake and Rolland are using rude, objectifying language, though I mean for them to be using it to rile Jenny, not because they think of her as a thing for their amusement. Much work ahead for me, I know, in finessing.

Boxlicker101 said:
2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

It was obvious they planned to get together to share Jenny. Roland had been instructed to bring the gifts to the house but he would never have walked right into the bedroom like that unless he was expected. The specifics of what they do to her would probably be spontaneous.

Whew--I do seem to have managed that alright, at least.

Boxlicker101 said:
3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?
I certainly think their actions would constitute rape or, at the very least, sexual battery. When Drake is holding her and Roland amuses himself with her, that would be enough right there. Although she did get sexual release, what was done was against her will. Jenny certainly did not want to spend her wedding night being shared by her husband and another man.

Thanks for giving me your impression on that.

Boxlicker101 said:
I enjoyed the story allright but I found the two men to be extremely nasty. I believe they would be two gay men, with a long relationship, who developed a certain hetero streak, and decided to find an attractive naïve woman to use as an occasional sexual plaything. If that’s the case, they are truly rotters. Neither of them used his cock on her, probably saving that for each other later that day. Drake professed love for her and she saw, or thought she saw the emotion in his eyes. It may have been a fondness, such as he might feel for a pet, because his feelings for her are obviously not the normal love of a man for his wife.


Thanks for letting me in on your thoughts here, too. I imagine there are some (perhaps most) people who would think that what Drake does is inherently reprehensible (which, for the record, it would be in my opinion, too, were this real life) to the point where he will be despicable as a character, no matter how he talks.

But for those who can enjoy a somewhat coercive, perverse cad in a non-consent story, I don't want Drake to come off as nasty. I mean for his talk to unsettle Jenny, not reflect some deep misogynistic bent, or that he has no more regard for her than he would for his faithful labrador.

I actually wrote a passage where he stops things before they get too serious and gives Jenny a chance to say she isn't up for the three-way shenanigans, but ultimately I ditched that because as much as Jenny might be turned on by what's happening, she's not ready to be responsible for it. She needs it to be done to her (oh-so not PC, but fun for erotic fiction). Drake does love Jenny. But he's got some non-traditional sexual bents.

As I mentioned, the excerpt I put up for critique is only part of the story/encounter becaue I was loathe to once again subject the kind folks in the SDC to my usual 20k chapter (you're welcome, everyone! :) ), but this is definitely Jenny's night. The kiss and a few affectionate caresses between Drake & Rols aside, it's pretty much all about her on this wedding night. Drake isn't gay. He's more of a polyamorous Kinsey 2. Hopefully I'll manage to get this across by the end of the full-length story.

Thanks for all your thoughtful comments on the substance of the story, and for the grammar/spelling/and other technical suggestions, too.

-Varian
 
re: Jenny's reaction

Singularity said:
I'll take exception to those who thought that Jenny's reaction to Drake and Roland's revelations, and their baiting of her in her bridal suite was too subdued, and that she didn't protest more or fight.

The poor girl is in shock and she is on autopilot and completely out of her element. The way she was built up and described, I would not expect her to mount a vigorous defense or to strenuously object to what is being done with her, and in front of her.

I think the confusion and the naivete she shows is the source of the muted and unprotesting response she has to what her now-husband has unveiled in front of her.

One can argue that her out-of-her-romance-story expecations and her world-turned-upside down reaction aren't fleshed out quite enough, but I find her glazed-eyes reaction to what has turned her every dream upside down, to be both plausible and real, given the circumstances.


Sin.

Thanks, Sin, for coming back to voice your take on Jenny's response. Intuitively, her reaction makes sense to me (which is why I wrote it that way), and I'm glad to hear it makes sense to you as well. I suppose I'm faced with that dilemma all writers confront again and again: writing something as I believe it might plausibly occur, or write something in such a way that most people reading the story will believe it might plausibly occur.

-Varian
 
Varian, it's always a pleasure to see you amongst us, and doubly so to be able to give some return on your generous efforts with my piece. One "no expectations" review follows - that is, one I've drafted having read only the text and not the responses of other posters. I will try to comb through those next. :) For this one, I will do my usual commenting-while-reading.

She didn't know quite how it had happened. But it had. Her twenty-fourth birthday came and went, and there she was, still unmarried. Worse. Practically undated. Alright, there'd been a couple guys, here and there, who'd taken momentary interest, asked her out, sometimes to dinner, sometimes to the movies. One had even asked her, after a couple casual dates, to go with him for a long weekend at Vale.

I like this as the opening paragraph. It's a good glimpse into the character that handles lightly something that could have degenerated (probably in my incapable hooves, for instance) into maudlin self-pity. I like the voice and the smooth, thought-like flow of the ideas. One tiny, miniscule niggle - might it more commonly be "a couple of" guys or dates? Or is it meant to be without it for voice effect? You know me; I have a blind spot, sometimes, for that sort of thing.

What a mistake that had been. He'd known full well her stance on pre-marital sex, then acted as if it was some huge surprise when she refused to share the room with just one double bed. Then the other couple had acted so put out when she took up residence on the living room couch. She'd thought at least the girl would understand. That was what you got, she decided, when you dated outside the church. Pushy guys with selfish friends who looked at you like a freak from outer space when they realized they were in the room with a living, breathing twenty-something virgin.

I quite love her voice. She's got some bite, and her greivances are real to me. It's so easy (and common) for church-going folk with a desire for sexual restrait to be ruthlessly stereotyped in erotic fiction. It's nice to see one who feels human and understandable, and who is treated with sympathy rather than cynical derision. It's not that I think that the author is necessarily endorsing her point of view, but that she's being treated as a real and reasonable person and not simply a brain-washed fool. I like her.

When birthday number twenty-five loomed just weeks ahead, and not so much as a prospective boyfriend was on the radar, Jenny broke the solemn vow she'd taken ...

Mmm. Do I spy a delightful hint of foreshadowing? Nicely, lightly handled.

... his dubious lack of devoutness ...

I love that phrase.

And then, when he'd driven her home and walked her to her door, as she stood in nervous dread, afraid that her dream date was about to be forever sullied in her memory, that a hundred tiny hopes that were taking shape were about to be crushed by a request to come inside, or a premature and presumptuous attempt at a tongue kiss, he'd smiled sweetly, taken her hand, and planted a soft and perfectly appropriate kiss on her cheek, then left with no more than a promise to call. Which he did.

Now that is simply adorable, and I mean that in the sense that it ought to have if freed of its common usage for everything from puppies to bath tissue. It's charming and sweet, and makes me like them both - her for her realism and nervousness about the situation, and of course him for his decency and respect. You capture beautifully the spiritual nature of her hopes, if I may use that phrase; that she longs for love and beauty, and that it will be a real and sorrowful crushing of her spirit to reduce them to a grope and a tongue jammed in her mouth. She's found a sort of Platonic ideal of love, and a kind person won't tear that too roughly from her in quest of its more tangible realities.

Five weeks later, on her birthday, it happened. He asked her to marry him. Almost out of her mind with joy, she, of course, accepted.

Arounnd about here, I did realized that I'd had some slight difficulties with time frames and verb tenses. The opening paragraph gave me the impression that the story was set at about the time of her twenty-fourth birthday, and as it moved through the twenty-fifth and on toward the wedding, I did feel a trace of confusion. Possibly it's just me, but I didn't wholly realize that I was meant to be moving forward in time.

It was a short engagement, and the wedding was not as lavish as the one she'd always dreamt of ... She could do as she pleased, of course, but he made no pretense that he found her devout adherence to the Christian faith more admirable than amusing.

Ah, trouble in paradise. I like her decision to call him "Drake" for its romantic and daring sound, by the way. Because I'm commenting as I read, I'm not entirely sure where we're going, so I will simply say what I see here. Our heroine took a little ding for me with the first statement; it adds a suggestion that that idealized or spiritual love may also be more demandingly financial, and that she's in "fairy tale wedding mode" perhaps enough to be less aware of who she's marrying than that she's marrying. I begin to wonder how well she knows Drake, or whether she's more in love with being in love (although he does have some charm). Drake I found, possibly unfortunately, immediately insympathetic. This may be a personal reaction, but I think it a very bad sign when a person marries someone whose major beliefs - whether religious or otherwise - are merely amusing. It smacks of contempt, which is an unpleasant thing to see in a new husband, and which gives me a foreboding feeling about the rest of the piece.

Still, he'd consented to a Christian wedding, and the words of the preacher blessing their union filled her with all the joyful promise a wedding day could bring a young woman. And as she looked at Drake beaming down at her with his warm smile and adoring gaze, she knew that he loved her. That they'd be happy.

As a result of the above, I have a feeling of considerable tension here. I hope that's the author's design, because it is rather lovely. I'm torn between hoping that they will come out fairy-tale happy and believing that this is starting to sound like our heroine already attempting to convince herself that all is well. It's all in that last sentence fragment, methinks. ;) The "surreal whirlwind" slightly later seems another hint.

They rode along in silence for a while, Jenny thinking back happily on the day she imagined more than remembered. Picturing herself standing at the altar in her white gown, Drake slipping the platinum band onto her finger, they way they'd looked at each other over champagne flutes as they clinked after each toast.

But then there's this ... warm and fuzzy. You really do have me guessing, and rather on tenterhooks to see where this goes.

Drake was eleven years older than Jenny, and she still felt a little awkward with him. A little in awe of him, and always kind of on guard against coming off as too immature or silly.

"Neither can I," he mused with dreamy eyes.

And another delightful ratchet to my tension. Older than she, and with her eager to please him ... he could end up an endearingly kind guide or a dangerous manipulator. Where, oh where, will he go? That twines delightfully around his first physical actions, where he combines the fairy tale of the wedding with the physicality of his tongue - the very part of the body Jenny associated with a crude sexual advance earlier, but here so interestingly transformed.

"Tell your husband something, Jenny," he murmured with a warm smile, "how many lovers have you had?"

(...)

She was flustered and nervous. Somehow his questions made her feel she was being accused of something.

I'm so glad you said that, because I had that feel from his first question. It's sensual and dangerous at the same time - a combination you're doing very well at conveying in small, subtle ways. His next comment - "Jenny, my love, there's no need to be defensive" - is excellent as well as it shows his deft shifting of the focus to her alleged defensiveness rather than his probing.

Moving forward ... damn, Varian, you're doing a superb job with the erotics of power, voice, and speech. His questions are more seductive and stimulating than the bulk of physical sex scenes on Lit, and they convey a real power and delicious, delicate perversity that has me longing to hear more.

His actions that follow are exquisite. You've done a superb job of making tense, erotic, and thrilling moments that could have been absolutely ordinary - a married women touching her husband's body through his clothing. It's all in how it's told, and it's told just wonderfully.

The things he was doing, the things he was saying were shocking her. They'd have shocked her under any circumstances, but her blushing, squirming astonishment was heightened because this behavior was so far out of character for Drake, who'd never once said an inappropriate thing to her, and never once attempted more than an admittedly hot, deep, prolonged kiss, which she was more than eager to give by the time he first took it on their eighth date, one week and three days into their relationship.

Now that is a genuinely masterful touch, that last sentence. You capture her sudden, nervous awareness of his tense sexuality beautifully, and in that last line convey both her fairytale approach to the relationship - she remembers exactly how many days, like an innocent young thing counting one-week anniversaries - and how quickly this all moved. They had eight dates in ten days; Drake may not have pressed for a swift physical involvement, but he certainly seems to have moved quickly emotionally. More fuel on the fire of excitement tinged with lingering unease.

Suddenly she was actually afraid, really scared, and she shrank back from him, shaking her head in protest.

"But I think I'll wait. Let's savor the anticipation."

Beautiful. This is fantastic in the way it catches both characters and the situation. Drake is looking increasingly scary and we really feel Jenny's fear and reasons for it - despite the fact that others might find almost exactly those same actions simply delightful and playful. If Jenny and Drake had been happily shagging for weeks before, this would all seem perfectly innocent. But with her nervousness and inexperience, and - perhaps more importantly - Drake's obvious awareness of those facts, this all looks much less reassuring.

"No bra," he observed aloud, turning her round to face him once more. He pressed himself against her, leaned in close, and whispered, "You can't imagine how hard my cock is, knowing I'm about to undress you."

She was amazed at how hot and soft her body felt at the same time her heart was pounding with doubt and terror. Why was he acting like this? He'd been so sweet, so gentle, so proper all through their relationship. Never in a hundred years could she have imagined him talking to her like this, treating her this way. It was as if he was being deliberately cruel. And yet…no…there was no malice in his voice. In his look. His voice was as sweet and warm as ever, his look adoring and…hungry. Not spiteful or mean. She didn't understand.

Got all of that, and felt that perhaps you could do a little less "tell" here about Jenny's thoughts - although possibly that's just my point of view. I do think that her confusion about the sweetness and warmth in his voice is needed, because it helps to cut some of the tension and suggest to the reader that it's the sexuality that's meant to be menacing and not Drake himself - who had begun to look a bit unsettling to me by now.

It would have been alright if he'd pressed the soft palms of his large, warm hands gently over her breasts. She expected that. Wanted it. But with mounting, painful embarrassment she watched him lift an index finger to his mouth, wet it with his tongue, and dip it carefully down, touching nothing until the cold wet of his fingertip slid against the tip of her erect nipple, which contracted instantaneously with the contact.

Superb use of small actions and perceptions to shape the feel of this, here. You convey beautifully the subtle shifts and gradations between sexual contact focused on emotion and that focused on physical excitement and gratification, and of course once more you make relatively simple, potentially innocent actions intensely erotic through context and expectation.

"Roland," Drakes voice rolled out smooth and warm, "you filthy peeping Tom. What are you doing here?"

Nice. The set-up is clear in that moment, from the tone of his voice, and you convey that quite neatly.

Confused, clueless, really, Jenny was about to step forward and give Drake's—their—friend a warm kiss on the cheek, but Drake didn't let her out of his embrace. Instead, Roland stepped toward her, bent, and kissed her lips. She started and blushed even before he moved in to kiss her again, this time drawing her bottom lip between his and brushing over it with his warm, wet tongue.

I hope it's not just my imagination that's making that reference to the tongue a recurring theme here. It's quite delicious, as is this purring, sensual, but tensely fraught scene. It shows superb work with tension. You've gotten the reader entirely on edge by this stage and used the nervousness we assume Jenny must feel about the weddding night to both build and to some extent mask the other sources of anxiety, letting them simmer while the reader plays "is he or isn't he?" until you whip the curtain back. Very nicely handled.

God, what was happening? Her husband holding her still like a hostage, his friend forcing a passionate kiss on her, and her own body filling with an urgent gorgeous heat that almost drowned her panic and anxiety.

I think I could use a little more build on her erotic response. The dominating note for her character has been fear, and although there have been a couple of hints that she's also excited, it hasn't felt persuasive when weighed against her nervousness and some lingering rejection of the idea of physical (rather than spiritual) sensuality. Perhaps a bit more building to this earlier, with a little insight into what about the evening appeals to her as well as frightening her? You made a good sally in the mention of his earlier date, when he kissed her more passionately. Possibly that might be one direction to expand a little?

"Hasn't my wife got a sweet little mouth, Rols?"

Excellent line; it's only the movie "Deliverance" that's slightly spoiling it for me. ;)

"Mmmm. Soft, full lips," Roland groaned, gently kissing her top, then her bottom lip. "And a teasing little tongue that pretends to be hiding, then caresses your tongue so ardently."

That I felt a bit too heavy. The language is beautiful, but felt unlikely in the situation and character.

From behind he kissed her ear, licking and sucking it in a way that seemed obscene, then caused another flood of arousal to wash over her.

That's working better for me, and would be better still with just a bit more earlier hinting about her eros/shame conflict and underlying physical desire.

"Rols. Pull down the front of her dress. You won't believe what pretty tits she's got."

"Now why would that surprise me?"

That came off much more realistic, to me, and in the spirit of the moment. The sly amusement and suggestion that he's ben watching her also nicely frame Jenny as caught between two clever creatures who have clearly been planning this from a very early stage.

The physical situation here is delicious as well, might I add. Drake's choice of method - restraining her in the embrace that, itself, is perfectly "right," but in the context wholly shocking - is a delightful bit of irony. Similarly, I like his repetition of the act of putting her hand to his crotch - a nice circular return to one of the first signs that this was all going in an unexpected direction.

"Sweet Jenny. The only reason you don’t want this is because you don't dare to want it." Then he gave her a soft, lingering kiss. "I love you, Jenny. And nothing that happens here tonight is going to change that."

This didn't quite work for me. I've been enjoying Drake as a rather wicked creature, and this didn't seem to fit. I can see that it could fit if his earlier characterization was a bit less delightfully cruel, or if this was a bit less suddenly tender. Right now the text feels a little torn between him being a frightening but (because frightening) erotic deceiver and a idealized lover, and this feels like a sudden panicked retreat to the fairytale lover. I don't think it's impossible to unite the two - in fact I take to be rather your point to do so - but at the moment it feels like there's a disconnect between the two.

One thought is that it might have to do with the spiritual and physical ends of things. That is, Jenny has been a spiritually oriented person focused on love, and much of her shock comes of Drake's intense focus on the physical body after the wedding ceremony, at times - as with his first touch on her breasts - to the deliberate exclusion of a more emotive focus. Here, he suddenly wants to turn emotion back on, and I think has difficulties doing it. His deliberate deception on the topic of sexuality and his clearly planned set-up with Roland undo a good bit of the trust between him and Jenny, and make it hard for him to now return to the role of gentle, tender lover, especially given the (quite delicious) dirty talk that also moves him away from the "tender" end of the sexual continuum. I think that possibly more connection between physical sensuality and emotional tenderness in the early text might help; it does take some work to get Drake's deception and fairly hardcore kink into the same thought as sweet, loving care for Jenny (but I quite love that you want to).

Nothing within her understanding could have explained why, but she did as Drake asked, and spread her legs, giving her husband and his friend a clear view of her cunt.

I'm not quite sure why she does, myself. Perhaps a bit more on the earlier build-up to her sexual excitement and desire? If I felt her arousal more strongly, this would feel more natural to me.

The scene that follows, with the pair of them kneeling as Roland licks her, is intensely sexy. My only qualm is as above. I can certainly see why she's yielding by the end of it, but her initial compliance is harder to accept given her mixture of fear and commitment to a religious view of sex. Once we've got the intense phsyical pleasure to drive it, her later reactions - as when Drake directs her to touch her nipples - work very well.

From there on, her slide into utter abandonment moves delightfully - as does her sudden return to clarity as the haze of sensual oblivion rolls back and she thinks about what she's just done. I had similar difficulties as above, however, with her swift acceptance of Drake's movement from sexual to emotional focus in that reassuring warm smile he gives her. He's a little too much the cool, rather amused dominator during that sex for that to wholly work for me - not because that combination could never work, but because there's no groundwork laid with this couple at this moment, and thus to my perceptions no basis on which Jenny could be building an expectation that those things can go together. Does that make any sense?

"How does my wife taste, Rols?"

And Roland playfully replied, "You should really find out for yourself, don't you think?"

And Drake said, "Oh, yes," and then, as she watched, her husband leaned forward and kissed his friend. A real, deep, hot tongue kiss. Even more than every incredible, frightening thing that had happened in that room, that kiss shook up everything about Jenny's brand new world. What her marriage was. What Drake was. What she was. Because mingled with her shock there was a deep, physical excitement in seeing her husband's tongue slide between Roland's lips, in watching their lips kissing, caressing, sucking.

"Delicious," Drake sighed as his and Roland's mouths parted.

I certainly must agree with Drake on that one. ;) The sex here was delightful and hot, utterly filled with promise.

Now, your questions ...

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

On the whole I thought it very good. I think there was one line of Roland's I commented on above; the rest was excellent, and Drake's questioning of Jenny was just superbly done.

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

Thoroughly clear. I'm laughing, because I wrote that admiring comment on your handling of it well before reading this. It's beautifully done, subtle but unmistakable.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?

It's a bit heavy toward coercion at the moment, in my opinion, but that's not necessarily physical coercion. It's not, to me, that they come off as rapists; it's more that they come off as rather cruelly manipulative at times, having set Jenny up for something that they might well think she genuinely objects to. There's a fine line here, and at times I felt they were drifting into the territory of being abusive or vicious - having lured her into the marriage with the intent of using her as they liked whether she wished to or not, not so much by physical force as by the concessions a conservative and adoring woman might feel required to make her husband or that a trapped and humiliated woman might yield to having had her illusions brutally crushed. I don't think that's what you intended, and sometimes I did see what I think was your goal - that their actions are ultimately liberating to her, and that she will come to enjoy and embrace this life. I just felt that I needed a bit more indication, early on, that Jenny is a sexual person, that she does feel physical excitement and desire for Drake (as well as a sort of pristine girlish vision of chaste marriage), and that she has some struggles with her own decision to hold off on sex for so long. She seems quite matter-of-fact about it in the opening, and while in many ways I like that about her, there's no hint that she's experienced any physical temptation. That's a little tricky to put together with her later having a level of physical excitement strong enough to lead her to accept Drake and Roland at the same time.

Best of luck with this - it really is the most intensely delicious idea. I can't wait to see more!

Shanglan
 
Just not credible...

Hi Varian:

Thanks for posting your story. I like the premise a lot -- innocent woman is taken far beyond her expectations. It has a nasty slant to it that can make it appealing. I was quite surprised when Roland showed up and was invited in...a nice twist there.

In response to your questions, overall I thought the dialogue was fine, except that I thought Roland and Drake sounded awfully like the same person speaking from two different mouths. I'd like to see them developed a bit more as different people. Did they come off as rapists? No. Did they come of as slimy? Yes. Two different things.

Now, I have to say that I agree with Penny that, as written, I just didn't like this story...I think it has promise, just not in its current form. I suspect that my critique will sound a good deal like hers, but here goes anyway:

1. The opening fell flat. If I had encountered this story on Lit. and started reading it, I wouldn't have made it past paragraph three. I would have just given up and moved on to something else. There just isn't anything in the first four or five paragraphs that transports me into the story--makes me want to keep reading. Jenny sounds dull, boring, and the story seems to be very formulaic. Perhaps a more engaging approach would be to begin with a time when she was tongue lashing with a man and began to feel herself drawn toward behavior that her religion forbade. Her mind and her body war with one another, but the mind wins out (leaving behind a lingering physical disappointment). A short vignette like that would give the reader insight into Jenny's inner turmoil without having to listen to a point by point explanation/laundry list of her life and romantic/erotic failures.

2. If her religion is really so strong, then I'm sorry--there's just no way I can imagine her not fighting her new husband and his buddy. Either she's a Christian or she's not. Now, I could imagine a story line where Drake leads her rapidly down the "path to depravity" as her preacher might have put it and within a week or three of their wedding invites Roland into their bedroom. But on the wedding night? I just can't see it. Plots that lack basic credibility put me off.

Sorry to be less than taken with the story. I went and read some of your other stuff and it's clear (to me anyway) that you just weren't clicking on this one the way you were in some of the previous work.

Allan

[In case you were wondering where I've been, the fall semester has been a nightmare! And I've got a new email address too...]
 
I don't begrudge anyone their interpretation of this story or any other, but having grown up in a religious family and recalling the expectations that I be a 'good girl', it is beyond me to imagine Jenny being so calm about Roland's sudden appearance. Of course, that's just me; we all have our own beliefs and experiences that we use to fill in the blanks of characters.

If we grant, for the sake of argument, that poor Jenny is so shocked as to be unable to react then this brings up an interesting issue. From a moral perspective, I don't see any difference between deliberately shocking her into a state of mentally helplessness and tying her up with a rope; either way her will has been eliminated. Assuming this is Drake's intent from the outset, to stun Jenny out of her faculties, then I'd have to change my vote on the rape question.

Varian said:
I imagine there are some (perhaps most) people who would think that what Drake does is inherently reprehensible (which, for the record, it would be in my opinion, too, were this real life) to the point where he will be despicable as a character, no matter how he talks.
Unless it's a comedy, when I read a story, I don't think, "Oh, these aren't real persons, that changes the rules of acceptable behavior." To me, that wouldn't be according the characters the seriousness they deserve. Thus, Drake and Roland don't get any moral slack from me because this is just a story. As written above, they are despicable. In order for me to think their actions less than reprehensible, I would need to see something in Jenny that leads me to believe this is what she wants. Some reason to believe Drake understands this as well would also help. Otherwise I think there's the risk this will come across as two selfish pricks taking advantage of, rather than pleasing, a helpless young lady.
 
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Shanglan, if everyone who read my writings received them in the generous light your critiques reflect, what a well-stroked authorial ego I'd have! I'm just glad you commented at such length, so my time basking in your kind words wasn't cut short--such a greedy girl, I am.

BlackShanglan said:
I like this as the opening paragraph. It's a good glimpse into the character that handles lightly something that could have degenerated (probably in my incapable hooves, for instance) into maudlin self-pity. I like the voice and the smooth, thought-like flow of the ideas. One tiny, miniscule niggle - might it more commonly be "a couple of" guys or dates? Or is it meant to be without it for voice effect? You know me; I have a blind spot, sometimes, for that sort of thing.

I'm afraid you're quite alone in your appreciation of this paragraph--even I have ceased to love it, and think it might die a quick death in the next revision, or at the very least, will be bumped down, away from the story's opening, which is likely to be, instead, Jenny's fairytale erotic fantasy of her wedding night. But I'm very much cheered that you liked the voice and the method of conveying something about Jenny's character. And, yes, I was foregoing perfect grammar, here and elsewhere, in the effort to achieve a casual narrative voice reflective of Jenny.

BlackShanglan said:
I quite love her voice. She's got some bite, and her greivances are real to me. It's so easy (and common) for church-going folk with a desire for sexual restrait to be ruthlessly stereotyped in erotic fiction. It's nice to see one who feels human and understandable, and who is treated with sympathy rather than cynical derision. It's not that I think that the author is necessarily endorsing her point of view, but that she's being treated as a real and reasonable person and not simply a brain-washed fool. I like her.

I'm pleased to hear it, not only for the reasons you mention, but because if she's set up like a pathetic stereotype, the coming violation won't have the intended impact.

BlackShanglan said:
Mmm. Do I spy a delightful hint of foreshadowing? Nicely, lightly handled.

:rolleyes: Could be...

BlackShanglan said:
I love that phrase.

Why, thank you.

BlackShanglan said:
Now that is simply adorable, and I mean that in the sense that it ought to have if freed of its common usage for everything from puppies to bath tissue. It's charming and sweet, and makes me like them both - her for her realism and nervousness about the situation, and of course him for his decency and respect. You capture beautifully the spiritual nature of her hopes, if I may use that phrase; that she longs for love and beauty, and that it will be a real and sorrowful crushing of her spirit to reduce them to a grope and a tongue jammed in her mouth. She's found a sort of Platonic ideal of love, and a kind person won't tear that too roughly from her in quest of its more tangible realities.

So glad that Jenny's not alone in succumbing to Drake's charm.

BlackShanglan said:
Arounnd about here, I did realized that I'd had some slight difficulties with time frames and verb tenses. The opening paragraph gave me the impression that the story was set at about the time of her twenty-fourth birthday, and as it moved through the twenty-fifth and on toward the wedding, I did feel a trace of confusion. Possibly it's just me, but I didn't wholly realize that I was meant to be moving forward in time.

Good to know--I'll keep this in mind as I revise.

BlackShanglan said:
Ah, trouble in paradise. I like her decision to call him "Drake" for its romantic and daring sound, by the way. Because I'm commenting as I read, I'm not entirely sure where we're going, so I will simply say what I see here. Our heroine took a little ding for me with the first statement; it adds a suggestion that that idealized or spiritual love may also be more demandingly financial, and that she's in "fairy tale wedding mode" perhaps enough to be less aware of who she's marrying than that she's marrying. I begin to wonder how well she knows Drake, or whether she's more in love with being in love (although he does have some charm). Drake I found, possibly unfortunately, immediately insympathetic. This may be a personal reaction, but I think it a very bad sign when a person marries someone whose major beliefs - whether religious or otherwise - are merely amusing. It smacks of contempt, which is an unpleasant thing to see in a new husband, and which gives me a foreboding feeling about the rest of the piece.

All your insights and reactions here are immensely helpful to me. I appreciate knowing that you're wondering, as you read, just where Jenny's motivation lies. I don't mean for her to be a gold digger, or simply "acquiring" the requisite spouse, and I'm hoping to alleviate those sorts of doubts about her as I rewrite.

However, you picked up on something that is definitely part of what I'm exploring in Jenny's character: the way in which people with very little experience (and sometimes those with enough experience to know better) sometimes put a great deal of faith into a relationship that is really only nascent, and in a person they really don't know as well as they imagine, as well as the way in which people can get swept up in their vision of idealized romance, letting the window dressing blind them to, or make them forget to look for, the substance behind it. Jenny doesn't really know Drake well at all, as is obvious, I think, before the limo pulls into their driveway.

I'm glad you mention your feeling about Drake at this point. I do think I ought to soften his attitude about Jenny's beliefs. I don't wish Drake to be contemptuous of Jenny.

BlackShanglan said:
As a result of the above, I have a feeling of considerable tension here. I hope that's the author's design, because it is rather lovely. I'm torn between hoping that they will come out fairy-tale happy and believing that this is starting to sound like our heroine already attempting to convince herself that all is well. It's all in that last sentence fragment, methinks. ;) The "surreal whirlwind" slightly later seems another hint.

I'm thrilled to hear it--you're reacting precisely in accord with the design of my deviant little mind. Now I just have to manage to retain this once I've made Drake less contemptuous and condescending.

BlackShanglan said:
But then there's this ... warm and fuzzy. You really do have me guessing, and rather on tenterhooks to see where this goes.

Warm and fuzzy, yes, but I have tried to drop another little hint about Jenny's capacity for self-delusion, since she's already remembering a fantasy of the day, rather than the real events of the day (here I'm borrowing liberally from my experience of hearing friends recount being utterly unable to remember much of anything about their wedding day, because of all the stress and excitement).

I'm terribly pleased that you're feeling suspense here.

BlackShanglan said:
And another delightful ratchet to my tension. Older than she, and with her eager to please him ... he could end up an endearingly kind guide or a dangerous manipulator. Where, oh where, will he go? That twines delightfully around his first physical actions, where he combines the fairy tale of the wedding with the physicality of his tongue - the very part of the body Jenny associated with a crude sexual advance earlier, but here so interestingly transformed.

Can I just tell you, Shanglan, how fun it is, as an author, to get these continuous glimspes into your play-by-play reactions to the way in which the story is unfolding?

BlackShanglan said:
I'm so glad you said that, because I had that feel from his first question. It's sensual and dangerous at the same time - a combination you're doing very well at conveying in small, subtle ways. His next comment - "Jenny, my love, there's no need to be defensive" - is excellent as well as it shows his deft shifting of the focus to her alleged defensiveness rather than his probing.

Moving forward ... damn, Varian, you're doing a superb job with the erotics of power, voice, and speech. His questions are more seductive and stimulating than the bulk of physical sex scenes on Lit, and they convey a real power and delicious, delicate perversity that has me longing to hear more.

I'm relieved to hear it, because I was beginning to feel, after others' critiques, that my sense for this sort of dialogue had gone totally haywire.

I do see why Penny and others found Drake's manner of speech so unrealistic as to deserve an eyeroll or seven. It's not 'natural' speech. Drake's playing with Jenny, and his speech is contrived to elicit a particular reaction.

I may still rework some of the dialogue, but it's reassuring that at least one other person found it as erotic as I did. :)

BlackShanglan said:
Now that is a genuinely masterful touch, that last sentence. You capture her sudden, nervous awareness of his tense sexuality beautifully, and in that last line convey both her fairytale approach to the relationship - she remembers exactly how many days, like an innocent young thing counting one-week anniversaries - and how quickly this all moved. They had eight dates in ten days; Drake may not have pressed for a swift physical involvement, but he certainly seems to have moved quickly emotionally. More fuel on the fire of excitement tinged with lingering unease.

It's so gratifying, Shanglan, that you picked up on all of this.

BlackShanglan said:
Got all of that, and felt that perhaps you could do a little less "tell" here about Jenny's thoughts - although possibly that's just my point of view. I do think that her confusion about the sweetness and warmth in his voice is needed, because it helps to cut some of the tension and suggest to the reader that it's the sexuality that's meant to be menacing and not Drake himself - who had begun to look a bit unsettling to me by now.

Yes, thank you--I agree, with you and others who've made similar observations, I think I'd do better to convey as much of Jenny's conflicted, vascillating reactions through more physical responses, and trim the tell-y internal monologue.

BlackShanglan said:
Nice. The set-up is clear in that moment, from the tone of his voice, and you convey that quite neatly.

Ah, glad to hear it.

BlackShanglan said:
I hope it's not just my imagination that's making that reference to the tongue a recurring theme here. It's quite delicious, as is this purring, sensual, but tensely fraught scene. It shows superb work with tension. You've gotten the reader entirely on edge by this stage and used the nervousness we assume Jenny must feel about the weddding night to both build and to some extent mask the other sources of anxiety, letting them simmer while the reader plays "is he or isn't he?" until you whip the curtain back. Very nicely handled.

The recurrent tongue imagery is certainly not your imagination, though I can't claim credit for cleverly weaving it throughout in the ways you've pointed out. But you make me wish I had. Maybe I shouldn't have confessed.

And, again, glad I've got you on edge.

BlackShanglan said:
I think I could use a little more build on her erotic response. The dominating note for her character has been fear, and although there have been a couple of hints that she's also excited, it hasn't felt persuasive when weighed against her nervousness and some lingering rejection of the idea of physical (rather than spiritual) sensuality. Perhaps a bit more building to this earlier, with a little insight into what about the evening appeals to her as well as frightening her? You made a good sally in the mention of his earlier date, when he kissed her more passionately. Possibly that might be one direction to expand a little?

Yes, I think you and others who have commented are dead on with this--I need to show that Jenny does have a physical, sexual side, that she wants to experience pleasure, that she's attracted to Drake, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping to do that, in part, with an erotic but rather vanilla pre-wedding fantasy sequence.

Then, too, I think I need to take more time with this scene, giving Drake and Rolland a chance to get her really excited before things go too far, so her arousal comes through as believable enough that it will weigh sufficiently against her beliefs and expectations.

BlackShanglan said:
Excellent line; it's only the movie "Deliverance" that's slightly spoiling it for me. ;)

Just wait 'til Rolland tells her to squeal like a pig!
Kidding. Oh god, kidding.

BlackShanglan said:
That I felt a bit too heavy. The language is beautiful, but felt unlikely in the situation and character.

Hmmm, yes, that's actually one line I had a bit of trouble swallowing, myself, though one thing I like about it is that it kind of suggests that Jenny's response isn't all resistance--that there's some instinctive reaction that contradicts what we expect from her, but at the same time the credibility of the suggestion is in doubt because Rolland could just be taunting Jenny with the claim that she responded to his kiss.

Still, I think you're right, the line doesn't really work.

BlackShanglan said:
That's working better for me, and would be better still with just a bit more earlier hinting about her eros/shame conflict and underlying physical desire.

Yes, thanks--very helpful. I do think a focus on her physical reaction is my best way toward some believability in her acquiescence, and that will work much better if a foundation exists before the wedding night encounter.

BlackShanglan said:
This didn't quite work for me. I've been enjoying Drake as a rather wicked creature, and this didn't seem to fit. I can see that it could fit if his earlier characterization was a bit less delightfully cruel, or if this was a bit less suddenly tender. Right now the text feels a little torn between him being a frightening but (because frightening) erotic deceiver and a idealized lover, and this feels like a sudden panicked retreat to the fairytale lover. I don't think it's impossible to unite the two - in fact I take to be rather your point to do so - but at the moment it feels like there's a disconnect between the two.

One thought is that it might have to do with the spiritual and physical ends of things. That is, Jenny has been a spiritually oriented person focused on love, and much of her shock comes of Drake's intense focus on the physical body after the wedding ceremony, at times - as with his first touch on her breasts - to the deliberate exclusion of a more emotive focus. Here, he suddenly wants to turn emotion back on, and I think has difficulties doing it. His deliberate deception on the topic of sexuality and his clearly planned set-up with Roland undo a good bit of the trust between him and Jenny, and make it hard for him to now return to the role of gentle, tender lover, especially given the (quite delicious) dirty talk that also moves him away from the "tender" end of the sexual continuum. I think that possibly more connection between physical sensuality and emotional tenderness in the early text might help; it does take some work to get Drake's deception and fairly hardcore kink into the same thought as sweet, loving care for Jenny (but I quite love that you want to).

Ah, my panicked retreat was that obvious?
Yes, I'm in perfect agreement--you've astutely picked up on my struggle between enjoying Drake's rather wicked ways, and wanting to make him someone that would somehow maintain a significant portion of Jenny's trust as well as her love through this shocking encounter which he orchestrates. I will have to carefully rework his managing of the balance of shocking and overwhelming Jenny wihtout utterly alienating her.

BlackShanglan said:
I'm not quite sure why she does, myself. Perhaps a bit more on the earlier build-up to her sexual excitement and desire? If I felt her arousal more strongly, this would feel more natural to me.

Yes, definitely more work to be done here.

BlackShanglan said:
The scene that follows, with the pair of them kneeling as Roland licks her, is intensely sexy. My only qualm is as above. I can certainly see why she's yielding by the end of it, but her initial compliance is harder to accept given her mixture of fear and commitment to a religious view of sex. Once we've got the intense phsyical pleasure to drive it, her later reactions - as when Drake directs her to touch her nipples - work very well.

Thanks--it's great to have such specific indication of when your credibility is strained, and when you're going along for the ride.

BlackShanglan said:
From there on, her slide into utter abandonment moves delightfully - as does her sudden return to clarity as the haze of sensual oblivion rolls back and she thinks about what she's just done. I had similar difficulties as above, however, with her swift acceptance of Drake's movement from sexual to emotional focus in that reassuring warm smile he gives her. He's a little too much the cool, rather amused dominator during that sex for that to wholly work for me - not because that combination could never work, but because there's no groundwork laid with this couple at this moment, and thus to my perceptions no basis on which Jenny could be building an expectation that those things can go together. Does that make any sense?

That makes excellent sense. And I confess that his back and forth never really gelled for me, either. Your analysis of just how it falls apart gets at my own, more intuitive misgivings, and will, I think, help me to ameliorate the problem.

BlackShanglan said:
I certainly must agree with Drake on that one. ;) The sex here was delightful and hot, utterly filled with promise.

I'm so, so glad. :)

BlackShanglan said:
It's a bit heavy toward coercion at the moment, in my opinion, but that's not necessarily physical coercion. It's not, to me, that they come off as rapists; it's more that they come off as rather cruelly manipulative at times, having set Jenny up for something that they might well think she genuinely objects to. There's a fine line here, and at times I felt they were drifting into the territory of being abusive or vicious - having lured her into the marriage with the intent of using her as they liked whether she wished to or not, not so much by physical force as by the concessions a conservative and adoring woman might feel required to make her husband or that a trapped and humiliated woman might yield to having had her illusions brutally crushed. I don't think that's what you intended, and sometimes I did see what I think was your goal - that their actions are ultimately liberating to her, and that she will come to enjoy and embrace this life. I just felt that I needed a bit more indication, early on, that Jenny is a sexual person, that she does feel physical excitement and desire for Drake (as well as a sort of pristine girlish vision of chaste marriage), and that she has some struggles with her own decision to hold off on sex for so long. She seems quite matter-of-fact about it in the opening, and while in many ways I like that about her, there's no hint that she's experienced any physical temptation. That's a little tricky to put together with her later having a level of physical excitement strong enough to lead her to accept Drake and Roland at the same time.

Again, most helpful. I'm grateful to get your impression as the story is, and pleased, too, that you see past the shortcomings of the story's current incarnation to glimpse where I'm attempting to go.

I don't know if I'll manage to keep the situation as deliciously shocking as I want it to be and rescue Drake and Rols from being viscious and cruel, but I aim to try, and your suggestions and those of others will, I think, aid me in getting there. As I've been re-reading and responding to your comments here, I've growing increasingly inspired to depict a scene or two from J & D's pre-wedding romance, when she felt so aroused by an ardent kiss that she seriously considered straying from the path of chastity, as well as a few hints that she senses there's something a little strange about him or their sexual chemistry which scares her at first, but which she gradually realizes excites her. All this is off the top of my head and poorly said, but the point is I'm finding all your reactions and suggestions both illuminating and inspiring.

Thank you so, so much for such a thorough and encouraging critique, Shanglan.

-Varian
 
Yes, I think you and others who have commented are dead on with this--I need to show that Jenny does have a physical, sexual side, that she wants to experience pleasure, that she's attracted to Drake, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping to do that, in part, with an erotic but rather vanilla pre-wedding fantasy sequence.

Then, too, I think I need to take more time with this scene, giving Drake and Rolland a chance to get her really excited before things go too far, so her arousal comes through as believable enough that it will weigh sufficiently against her beliefs and expectations.

I think that these are both excellent suggestions - the initial scene of pre-wedding erotic dream (nearly wrote "erotic cream," and isn't that a lovely slip) and the idea of moving through that post-wedding scene more slowly.

I've growing increasingly inspired to depict a scene or two from J & D's pre-wedding romance, when she felt so aroused by an ardent kiss that she seriously considered straying from the path of chastity, as well as a few hints that she senses there's something a little strange about him or their sexual chemistry which scares her at first, but which she gradually realizes excites her.

I think that's an excellent plan as well. Twining her desire with her nervousness would not only increase our awareness of her as a sexual person with desires, but also further and delightfully muddy the question of whether her growing unease in the limo is about Drake, sex, or both. I quite enjoyed the way in which that ambiguity heightened the tension, at least for me.

... and will, I think, help me to ameliorate the problem.

*happy sigh*

How I love an author who will use the word "ameliorate."

Can't wait to see the final draft on this one. :rose:

Shanglan
 
Hi, Allan,
I'm sorry it's taken me this long to respond; I've been a bit sick and wanted to be a tad more lucid before replying. I do appreciate you taking the time to read and offer your critique.

drlust said:
Hi Varian:
I like the premise a lot -- innocent woman is taken far beyond her expectations. It has a nasty slant to it that can make it appealing. I was quite surprised when Roland showed up and was invited in...a nice twist there.

Glad to hear you like the premise, the nasty slant and the twist.

drlust said:
...overall I thought the dialogue was fine, except that I thought Roland and Drake sounded awfully like the same person speaking from two different mouths. I'd like to see them developed a bit more as different people.

That's very useful to know--thank you.

drlust said:
Did they come off as rapists? No. Did they come of as slimy? Yes. Two different things.

Also helpful to know. Based on what you're saying, and what many others have said, I think Drake and Rolland are coming off as more slimy than I intend, though, of course, I don't mean for them to be perfectly benevolent and endearing.

drlust said:
Now, I have to say that I agree with Penny that, as written, I just didn't like this story...I think it has promise, just not in its current form. I suspect that my critique will sound a good deal like hers, but here goes anyway:

1. The opening fell flat. If I had encountered this story on Lit. and started reading it, I wouldn't have made it past paragraph three. I would have just given up and moved on to something else. There just isn't anything in the first four or five paragraphs that transports me into the story--makes me want to keep reading. Jenny sounds dull, boring, and the story seems to be very formulaic. Perhaps a more engaging approach would be to begin with a time when she was tongue lashing with a man and began to feel herself drawn toward behavior that her religion forbade. Her mind and her body war with one another, but the mind wins out (leaving behind a lingering physical disappointment). A short vignette like that would give the reader insight into Jenny's inner turmoil without having to listen to a point by point explanation/laundry list of her life and romantic/erotic failures.

It's very helpful, knowing your reaction, particularly as it echoes what others have said. Thanks too, for your suggestion--I'm definitely inclined to go in that sort of direction. The beginning will either disappear, or get bumped down in the story, and the opening scene will be something erotic.

drlust said:
2. If her religion is really so strong, then I'm sorry--there's just no way I can imagine her not fighting her new husband and his buddy. Either she's a Christian or she's not. Now, I could imagine a story line where Drake leads her rapidly down the "path to depravity" as her preacher might have put it and within a week or three of their wedding invites Roland into their bedroom. But on the wedding night? I just can't see it. Plots that lack basic credibility put me off.

I appreciate your cador here, and I agree that stories where the plot is unbelievable don't make very interesting reads. My difficulty is that I want this utterly shocking thing to happen precisely on the wedding night, precisely when she's had no sexual experience. I may be setting myself up for a fall with an impossible task, but my goal is to try, somehow, to make that incredible thing believable.

Hopefully, by providing more backstory, where we see Jenny feeling conflicted about her desires versus her beliefs, as you suggested, will get me part way there.

I think, too, taking things a bit more slowly on the wedding night, giving Jenny a chance to be overwhelmed by her own arousal before things get too crazy will help some.

I don't quiet agree with your statement that she's either a Christian or she's not. I think people feel torn, all the time, between conflicting beliefs about their world: doctrine, intuition, experience converge in ways that confuse. Also, though I'm certainly no expert, there are lots of different churches, and a person who considers herself quite devout within one will be seen as a non-Christian by another. For example, some Christian sects endorse gay marriage, while others see homosexuality as inhernetly sinful and un-Christian. Die hard Catholics see (used to see?) it as a sin to practice birth control, even in the context of marital relations.

I don't really want to go down the path of exploring all this in the story, and there's probably no Christian sect that's amended the nth commandment to "Thou shalt not commit adultery, unless your husband is bi and wants a threesome," :) but in the back of my mind I have the notion that Jenny's not in the fire and brimstone realm. No sex until marriage is sort of a clear cut thing, but within the context of marital relations, it's more of a gray area.

And then, I have in mind that Jenny's attraction and devotion to Drake competes with her desire to adhere to the rules of her faith.

Whew--thanks for indulging me there--these little diatribes of mine really do help me in working out my own thoughts about the story.

drlust said:
Sorry to be less than taken with the story. I went and read some of your other stuff and it's clear (to me anyway) that you just weren't clicking on this one the way you were in some of the previous work.

Please, no apology is necessary; I'd much rather have your honest criticism than feigned admiration. Your criticisms and those others have made have helped me to see a number of critical shortcomings with the story, and it's thanks to all of you I have a shot at improving the tale.

And I'm glad to hear you saw something better about my other writing, as I tossed "Wedding Night" off in the matter of a day or two, but the "Changed Girl" series has been a labor of love for over a year now (albeit a labor of love which still falls far short of my aspirations).

Thanks again, Allan, for giving me your time and sharing your insights.

-Varian
 
Penelope Street said:
I don't begrudge anyone their interpretation of this story or any other, but having grown up in a religious family and recalling the expectations that I be a 'good girl', it is beyond me to imagine Jenny being so calm about Roland's sudden appearance. Of course, that's just me; we all have our own beliefs and experiences that we use to fill in the blanks of characters.

That's an excellent point. I don't know if I can manage it, but I'd like to be able to write this story in such a way that people who identify in some way with Jenny's character could go along for her ride, rather than feeling the story falls apart once the naughtiness gets underway.

Penelope Street said:
If we grant, for the sake of argument, that poor Jenny is so shocked as to be unable to react then this brings up an interesting issue. From a moral perspective, I don't see any difference between deliberately shocking her into a state of mentally helplessness and tying her up with a rope; either way her will has been eliminated. Assuming this is Drake's intent from the outset, to stun Jenny out of her faculties, then I'd have to change my vote on the rape question.

I'm glad you bring this up, Penny. In writing the story, at one point I had Drake suggesting to Jenny that she could have the marriage annulled if she no longer wanted him for a husband, knowing his proclivities. But it felt too much like an ultimatum--"do the threesome with me and my buddy, or the marriage is over." Given Jenny's character, that kind of ultimatum felt like a coercion almost on the level of rape--not that she would have no choice, but that the choice would be so terrible that it amounts to near force.

If Drake and Rols are using their psy-ops training and have conspired to stun Jenny out of her senses so that she can no longer make a rational choice, that's kind of like slipping the girl a roofie, and whatever ensues is tantamount to rape.

I see it as something different, though, if they manage to seduce her by intoxicating her senses with overwhelming arousal. I want her, after a while, to start thinking more with her body than with her brain, not go catatonic with confusion so she's no longer competent to say 'yes' or 'no.'

Penelope Street said:
Unless it's a comedy, when I read a story, I don't think, "Oh, these aren't real persons, that changes the rules of acceptable behavior." To me, that wouldn't be according the characters the seriousness they deserve. Thus, Drake and Roland don't get any moral slack from me because this is just a story.

Again, I'm glad you bring this up--this is a topic that fascinates me to no end, and with which I struggle just about every time I write a story.

I'm very partial to non-consent stories, and to male characters who "give" women certain experiences using varying degrees of coercion. I write these characters in a way that I find intensely sexy. It's an erotic fantasy, but the same character, the same behavior, would be repugnant, even criminal in real life.

When I write these kinds of stories, I want the male characters to be men I (and hopefully others) find compelling and sexy. At the same time, though, I don't want them to get a pass on morality because it's fiction. Drake is, at worst, pushing a rape boundary, and at best, is risking making Jenny's wedding night--a night she's dreamed of and looked forward to probably all her adult life--into a very ugly memory. And so to some degree we should all be thinking, "What a bastard!" But at the same time, if I can make it plausible that Jenny gets totally turned on, and ultimately has an erotic experience more intense and fabulous than any she'd ever imagined, hopefully some people will think Drake's one sexy, devious, deviant dude.

Penelope Street said:
As written above, they are despicable. In order for me to think their actions less than reprehensible, I would need to see something in Jenny that leads me to believe this is what she wants. Some reason to believe Drake understands this as well would also help. Otherwise I think there's the risk this will come across as two selfish pricks taking advantage of, rather than pleasing, a helpless young lady.

Another topic which holds my fascination, and which I explore at endless (but hopefully highly erotic) length in my "Changed Girl" series: the man intuiting the unexpressed and perhaps unconscious desires of the woman, and helping her experience that which she does not even realize she wants.

I want Jenny to experience and really enjoy something which her character is not, at this point, capable of choosing. And, although morally I don't think it's okay for someone to force an experience on another 'for their own good,' that is, in part, what Drake is up to (though obviously there's no self-sacrifice going on here). In addition to showing some indication that Jenny has an adventurous sexuality percolating beneath her chaste exterior, I will endeavor to show that Drake's not just using his new wife in a cruel, selfish way.

Thanks, Penny! Even beyond the boundaries of this little story, I immensely enjoy discussing these sorts of issues.

-Varian
 
I believe Roland and Drake, besides being despicable, have gone over the line. Since there has been no penile penetration of her vagina yet, you might not be able to call it rape but it is certainly extreme sexual battery. Drake is holding tightly to Jenny and Roland is taking sexual liberties with her while she is struggling to get free and begging them to stop. That certainly goes over the line, husband or not.

I don't see that the sudden appearance of Roland shocked Jenny into compliance. She was struggling and pleading right up until the time they plunked her into the chair and held her there. At that time, she apparently decides to "lay back and enjoy it" as they sometimes say, but that doesn't stop the actions of the men from being rape.

As I said before, I think they are essentially gay men who decided to get a sexual female toy to share, and now they have one, unless Jenny does something about it. Nothing wrong with being gay and nothing wrong with wanting an occasional change of pace but the betrayal and abuse here is extremely wrong.
 
Varian P said:
I'm very partial to non-consent stories, and to male characters who "give" women certain experiences using varying degrees of coercion. I write these characters in a way that I find intensely sexy. It's an erotic fantasy, but the same character, the same behavior, would be repugnant, even criminal in real life.

When I write these kinds of stories, I want the male characters to be men I (and hopefully others) find compelling and sexy. At the same time, though, I don't want them to get a pass on morality because it's fiction. Drake is, at worst, pushing a rape boundary, and at best, is risking making Jenny's wedding night--a night she's dreamed of and looked forward to probably all her adult life--into a very ugly memory. And so to some degree we should all be thinking, "What a bastard!" But at the same time, if I can make it plausible that Jenny gets totally turned on, and ultimately has an erotic experience more intense and fabulous than any she'd ever imagined, hopefully some people will think Drake's one sexy, devious, deviant dude.

Another topic which holds my fascination, and which I explore at endless (but hopefully highly erotic) length in my "Changed Girl" series: the man intuiting the unexpressed and perhaps unconscious desires of the woman, and helping her experience that which she does not even realize she wants.

I want Jenny to experience and really enjoy something which her character is not, at this point, capable of choosing. And, although morally I don't think it's okay for someone to force an experience on another 'for their own good,' that is, in part, what Drake is up to (though obviously there's no self-sacrifice going on here). In addition to showing some indication that Jenny has an adventurous sexuality percolating beneath her chaste exterior, I will endeavor to show that Drake's not just using his new wife in a cruel, selfish way.

Thanks, Penny! Even beyond the boundaries of this little story, I immensely enjoy discussing these sorts of issues.

-Varian

I've written a couple of stories something like what you seem to be describing, where the woman is coerced into sex with the man, and likes it so much that the two of them establish a long-lasting relationship. One was NC and one was Incest, and both were pure stroke. So far, this hasn't been that kind of story although it might become one.
 
Although it didn't lead me to conclude they were gay, I'm not sure what purpose Drake and Roland kissing, or otherwise interacting, serves. If nothing else, it detracts from the perception that they are pleasing her on her wedding night. Even if she happens to be turned on by their kiss, I have a hard time imagining they did it for her.

In spite of my critical review, I still think the story has much promise- after all, this is a rough, first draft. The subtleties involved with n/c are to me what make it such an interesting topic. That's also, imo, what makes it so difficult.
 
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