Story Discussion: Sept 9, 2009. The Bonding of LanceGt & LittleMissJen

[lance gt]

I wrote this story a couple of months ago and tried a different approach than usual. I'm not sure if this style of writing is a viable method. I looking for suggestions on how to improve my style and increase my vocabulary so I'm not using words repetitvely trying to describe things and events. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Lance http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=435774e

 

[poppy_cock]

Any chance of putting a link into the post, Lance? Feeling a bit lazy today... :

 

[Guest]

Two simple things off the top of my head:

1. Structure:

Structurally, twelve of your first fourteen sentences begin with "I . . . ". That's really distracting, and it's a pattern that continues through-out the story. The paragraphs are all nearly the same length, and your sentences inside those paragraphs are also very similar in size, meter, and rhythm. It feels very mechanical reading so many sentences that begin the same way and have the same structure and follow the same pattern. Shake all that up.

I'm not sure I understand the story structure, either. It opens with four paragraphs of dry, first person exposition, almost a condensed summary, skips to a one paragraph third-person narration, and then returns to the first person exposition from the female point of view. I think you were trying to be creative in how you swung around the presentation, but it seemed more clunky and disjointed than it did fluid. Alternating between the female and male POV works in stories like this, but with the third leg of first-person narration mixed in it just felt disjointed and stiched-together.

Both POV's and the first-person narrator spend way, way too much time telling and not nearly enough time showing.

2. Characters:

As a caveat, let me begin by first admitting that personally I have a real difficult time where the author is a character in his/her story, even if the story is fictional. Just the pretense to me seems extremely egotistical, and often times not only is the pretense egotistical, but the content of the story is as well.

That seems to have happened here in spades. The author/character hybrid is perfect, sexual monster and the greatest man ever to live. A simple email from him ends the sadness in the female character's life. She falls in love with him for almost no reason at all. The author/character makes her whole and complete. He brings joy and satisfaction to countless women. Worse, none of these things are shown. He's not simply a lottery-winning sex stud who shows us just how Alpha he is by leaving women in a sexual stupor, vanquishing foes, and reciting verse; it's simply told to us that he is these things.

The characters never felt to me to be characters, but instead simply wish-fulfillment. Now, wish-fulfillment is a part of nearly all fiction. It's a rare author that doesn't write a main character that isn't somehow an analogue of him/herself. But here, it's just so on-the-nose as to be extremely distracting.

Show more, tell less. That alone makes characters breathe and become actual characters.

Sorry if that all sounds negative. I really apologize. I really don't want to be that guy who hates everything or thinks he's above it all, so I truely hope I'm not coming across like that.

 

[lance gt]

Two simple things off the top of my head:

1. Structure:

Structurally, twelve of your first fourteen sentences begin with "I . . . ". That's really distracting, and it's a pattern that continues through-out the story. The paragraphs are all nearly the same length, and your sentences inside those paragraphs are also very similar in size, meter, and rhythm. It feels very mechanical reading so many sentences that begin the same way and have the same structure and follow the same pattern. Shake all that up.

I'm not sure I understand the story structure, either. It opens with four paragraphs of dry, first person exposition, almost a condensed summary, skips to a one paragraph third-person narration, and then returns to the first person exposition from the female point of view. I think you were trying to be creative in how you swung around the presentation, but it seemed more clunky and disjointed than it did fluid. Alternating between the female and male POV works in stories like this, but with the third leg of first-person narration mixed in it just felt disjointed and stiched-together.

Both POV's and the first-person narrator spend way, way too much time telling and not nearly enough time showing.

2. Characters:

As a caveat, let me begin by first admitting that personally I have a real difficult time where the author is a character in his/her story, even if the story is fictional. Just the pretense to me seems extremely egotistical, and often times not only is the pretense egotistical, but the content of the story is as well.

That seems to have happened here in spades. The author/character hybrid is perfect, sexual monster and the greatest man ever to live. A simple email from him ends the sadness in the female character's life. She falls in love with him for almost no reason at all. The author/character makes her whole and complete. He brings joy and satisfaction to countless women. Worse, none of these things are shown. He's not simply a lottery-winning sex stud who shows us just how Alpha he is by leaving women in a sexual stupor, vanquishing foes, and reciting verse; it's simply told to us that he is these things.

The characters never felt to me to be characters, but instead simply wish-fulfillment. Now, wish-fulfillment is a part of nearly all fiction. It's a rare author that doesn't write a main character that isn't somehow an analogue of him/herself. But here, it's just so on-the-nose as to be extremely distracting.

Show more, tell less. That alone makes characters breathe and become actual characters.

Sorry if that all sounds negative. I really apologize. I really don't want to be that guy who hates everything or thinks he's above it all, so I truely hope I'm not coming across like that.

Don't be sorry Shel, that's the whole point of this discussion. JJ had pointed the first thing to me earlier. I understood her point of using "I" as the opening in most of the first paragraphs. That was one of the things I needed help with. In your second point, I see what you're getting at about character development. It was my fault for not animating them more. I was feeling the story was getting overly long and pared it down when I shouldn't have. The main character, "me", wasn't explained well enough, as you said, and should have been introduced in a better context. The biggest thing I noticed myself, was that I seemed to want to rush into the "live" action part and the sex. The story introduced too much without explanation. The part about the Emailing wasn't so simple though. I did explain that they had been doing this for some time, so the build up to falling in love was there for it to happen. As for being a sex god, I think it was stated in Jen's conversation that Lance enjoyed the female orgasm. and that couldn't be construed as that, only that he had a good knowledge of women. I don't think I said Jen was ever sad, just lacking in her relationship with her Dom. I thought slipping my other story in as a shady pre-quel would help to explain my character better. As I said, it was a new venture to try and use separate stories and combine them into one.
Is that about right?

 

[Guest]

Don't be sorry Shel, that's the whole point of this discussion. JJ had pointed the first thing to me earlier. I understood her point of using "I" as the opening in most of the first paragraphs. That was one of the things I needed help with. In your second point, I see what you're getting at about character development. It was my fault for not animating them more. I was feeling the story was getting overly long and pared it down when I shouldn't have. The main character, "me", wasn't explained well enough, as you said, and should have been introduced in a better context. The biggest thing I noticed myself, was that I seemed to want to rush into the "live" action part and the sex. The story introduced too much without explanation.
Is that about right from your perspective?

Yep, sounds right.

Rushing is really hard to deal with as a writer, too, especially in a format like this where you tend to want to get to the fun stuff. I don't know a good solution, other than to try to find a way to enjoy the other parts more.

 

[poppy_cock]

Thanks for the link.

I'll have a read and a think and get back to you, if that's okay?

Just one thing occurs though, having read the first page, Shel's feedback and your response. If you found it heavy going wanting to get to the 'good bit' - then generally speaking, the readers will also find that first bit heavy going.

One way to fix it is to start right in the action. You can always add bits of back story as you go along - in fact, most times, it's better to do just that, rather than front load with what I believe is known in the writing world as 'info dump'. Classic signs of info dump may be deduced from several lengthy scene-setting paragraphs - which you do appear to have here in your story, I'm afraid. But every newish writer does it. I know I did.

I'm not saying you can't set the scene at all. But keep it short, keep it snappy, otherwise your reader's likely to back click before the end of the third paragraph.

Anyway, these are just my first thoughts. I'll have a longer look over the next day or two.

 

[lance gt]

Thanks for the link.

I'll have a read and a think and get back to you, if that's okay?

Just one thing occurs though, having read the first page, Shel's feedback and your response. If you found it heavy going wanting to get to the 'good bit' - then generally speaking, the readers will also find that first bit heavy going.

One way to fix it is to start right in the action. You can always add bits of back story as you go along - in fact, most times, it's better to do just that, rather than front load with what I believe is known in the writing world as 'info dump'. Classic signs of info dump may be deduced from several lengthy scene-setting paragraphs - which you do appear to have here in your story, I'm afraid. But every newish writer does it. I know I did.

I'm not saying you can't set the scene at all. But keep it short, keep it snappy, otherwise your reader's likely to back click before the end of the third paragraph.

Anyway, these are just my first thoughts. I'll have a longer look over the next day or two.

I get what you're saying. I should have started off with the sex part and more or less reminsced about the set up I did, spaced throughout the story. Is that it?

 

[driphoney]

Hi Lance ,

Shall I wait to comment until after you send me your pic?

I'm not qualified to comment on any story here, but with BDSM, I'm really not qualified. The guilt I feel after each time I post is starting to stack up, and I'm really of two minds whether to give feedback or not. I have a weird, odd-ball sex scene I've been working on for ages. I might run it out here for a much deserved flogging so I can feel a tad absolved! I'm just your average reader, and wannabe writing hack.

Okay, so having put out my usual disclaimer, I'll jump right in, for what it's worth.

I struggled through the first page. I found myself skimming to find something to latch onto. Finally, after thinking I got the gist of it, I jumped to the second Lit page and got all excited when I saw the space break and dialogue. Yay! Some action. Part of what draws me to reading BDSM is the sexual tension of it, feeling the character's excitement grow. Sex is an alive, emotional experience, and no genre can vibrate with it as well as BDSM. I have trouble coordinating a sex scene and building tension, so I understand how hard this can be. One of the hardest things it seems to me, is putting the right amount of 'head-speak' into it, and then finding the right words for that head-speak. I picked one of your smaller paragraphs as an example, so lets take a look:

Lance watched intently, seeing how the pain caused Jen to respond with her body. Ripples washed over her skin as nerves responded to the severe stimulation. He could see the trail of shining fluid run slowly down her thighs, already reaching her knees and touching the soft leather of the ottoman.

I think your description of Jen is great, but Lance seems like an outside observer. I have the same problem. I'm fighting the urge to dig up my latest sex scene I'm working on and compare. Wish we could have coffee and a bull session on our sex scenes! Bet we could learn a lot from the direct feedback! So, I'm not judge here, honest.

I really got confused with the character, Lance, in first person, then Jen in first person, then an off screen third person narrator speaking about both of them. All the scene breaks in general confused me.

I felt the dialogue was very stiff, however, I notice that Shel has commented and I've learned that Shel_Ashling is probably one of the most phenomenal dialogue writers on Lit, so, I bow to the Master! But Lance, when you type here on the treads, you type in a very casual voice, very natural, so I know you can do it in dialogue. Just let yourself go with it.

Now, c'mere, babe. Let honey give you a little massage to help recover from the stress of laying your struggled-over story out on the chopping block . . .

 

[lance gt]

Hi Lance ,

Shall I wait to comment until after you send me your pic?

I'm not qualified to comment on any story here, but with BDSM, I'm really not qualified. The guilt I feel after each time I post is starting to stack up, and I'm really of two minds whether to give feedback or not. I have a weird, odd-ball sex scene I've been working on for ages. I might run it out here for a much deserved flogging so I can feel a tad absolved! I'm just your average reader, and wannabe writing hack.

Okay, so having put out my usual disclaimer, I'll jump right in, for what it's worth.

I struggled through the first page. I found myself skimming to find something to latch onto. Finally, after thinking I got the gist of it, I jumped to the second Lit page and got all excited when I saw the space break and dialogue. Yay! Some action. Part of what draws me to reading BDSM is the sexual tension of it, feeling the character's excitement grow. Sex is an alive, emotional experience, and no genre can vibrate with it as well as BDSM. I have trouble coordinating a sex scene and building tension, so I understand how hard this can be. One of the hardest things it seems to me, is putting the right amount of 'head-speak' into it, and then finding the right words for that head-speak. I picked one of your smaller paragraphs as an example, so lets take a look:



I think your description of Jen is great, but Lance seems like an outside observer. I have the same problem. I'm fighting the urge to dig up my latest sex scene I'm working on and compare. Wish we could have coffee and a bull session on our sex scenes! Bet we could learn a lot from the direct feedback! So, I'm not judge here, honest.

I really got confused with the character, Lance, in first person, then Jen in first person, then an off screen third person narrator speaking about both of them. All the scene breaks in general confused me.

I felt the dialogue was very stiff, however, I notice that Shel has commented and I've learned that Shel_Ashling is probably one of the most phenomenal dialogue writers on Lit, so, I bow to the Master! But Lance, when you type here on the treads, you type in a very casual voice, very natural, so I know you can do it in dialogue. Just let yourself go with it.

Now, c'mere, babe. Let honey give you a little massage to help recover from the stress of laying your struggled-over story out on the chopping block . . .

Damn girl, how do you expect me to concentrate on writing, when you have those soft, warm hands running up and down my body, making me shiver with delight and giving me a woody, Now get down there and take care of that for me, so I can get back to work. That's a good girl, just like that, my, my, you are soooo good. Mmmmm, yeah

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Lance,

Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Even though the initial paragraph is pure exposition, the narrator's character came through for me in a powerful, but not necessarily positive, manner. Considering how courteous and helpful Lance the writer has been in this forum, I was really surprised to find Lance the character so repulsively arrogant.

There's good and bad in that; while you may have lost a reader in the opening, it shows you can create a character capable of evoking a potent, emotional response. Since I can't imagine I'm part of your target audience, losing me so soon should not be cause for concern.

I skimmed the remainder of the initial page. The story appears to feature long sections of exposition without a single spoken word. Is this the different approach you mentioned? If so, why did you choose this style? If not, what is the different approach?

Like Shel, I want to see how the characters speak and behave, not be told about their past, their traits, and their desires. Based on the remainder of Shel's response, I'm more convinced than ever that I'm not part of your target audience. Did you consider who would enjoy this story while writing it?

I also agree with what Poppy said. In a short story, it's crucial to get to the action right away. If you want to write a stroke piece, it's ok to just skip to the proverbial good part. If your goal is a real story with conflict, then that's the place to start. With either type of short story, if any explanation is required, it's usually best to keep it ever so brief, only what the reader needs to understand the protagonist's situation and motivation at the beginning of the initial scene. If the reader needs to know something else before the next scene, include it at that point.

Honey's suggestion about using your natural voice for dialogue is something to think about too- natural is usually good.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Verdad]

Hello, Lance,

Sorry to say this, but I couldn't make it past the first page. Others seem to be saying there is some story later, but from what I gathered as far as I read, your submission didn't look like a story at all. A collection of confessions, reflections, and remembrances, maybe, but not a story.

Certainly, we use the word "story" in a number of senses—we talk of news stories, we talk of telling someone a story, we ask what the story is behind something, and so on. That's not what's relevant here, though; I'm talking of story as fiction, or 'creative writing', story as a narrative form.

By "fiction", of course, I'm not referring to events depicted in the story and whether they occurred for real. Made up from the whole cloth vs. presenting a barely fictionalized account of true events is not the issue at hand. The issue is the form of that presentation; the characteristics that distinguish it from other, non-fiction types of writing.

I won't be trying for a comprehensive list of what makes fiction, fiction—theorists have enough fun arguing as it is—but it's pretty safe to say that a story has plot, character(s), setting, and theme.

Theme, we can quite honestly scrap for now. Many writers will say that theme emerges from the story rather than being something they plan in advance. Some will disagree. Only you can discover what works for you, but it's probably not a good idea to fret about it too much until you've got the basics under control.

Plot, now that's a more serious issue. When we say something is not really a story, we usually mean it doesn't have a proper plot. Without conflict, complication(s), crisis, and resolution (or those same things under some different names), there is no satisfying plot, and hence no satisfying story.

At Lit, you will find many stories of that kind. Some could be properly labeled as vignettes or scenes, some come very close to being stories, and some are stories, albeit badly done from other reasons. We still call them fiction, though. When I said your piece is not a story, I didn't only mean it doesn't have a complete dramatic structure. I meant it's not fiction at all. Judging, again, from the first page.

Plot-wise, a story can suffer from a million problems. It can be predictable, or meandering, or too slow in engaging the reader, or it can fizzle out half way through and god knows what else. It still won't occur to us to call it not fiction.

Similarly, characters can suffer from a million problems of their own. They can be generic cardboards, utterly unlikable, or complete bores, and we will not be happy with that, but we still won't be in doubt it's indeed fiction we're reading.

The way fiction presents all these, though—plot, character, setting, and theme—is through concreteness. Consider your piece now, and you will see how anything I might say about it comes back to that.

I could say the story didn't engage me, didn't raise in my mind that single most important question that makes the reader turn the page: "What happens next?" But then, for that, it would have had to show me what happens first! In other words, there's no sense in saying you had problems with plot. There was no attempt to present a succession of concrete events, and so it's meaningless to talk of plot.

Same with characters. I could say they were entirely generic. But were they characters at all? Is my voice as I speak now, a character? Well, I suppose we could get philosophical about that. Character in a story, though, comes through concrete dramatic action. No concrete events in a concrete space-time (i.e. setting) for a character to observe, participate in, or reminisce about, no character.

So once again, your submission could be an interesting set of musings, but judging from the first page, it doesn't even attempt to be a story. I hope some of this helps with your future stuff.

Best of luck,
Verdad

 

[jacks4u]

Hey, Lance,

I'm not much of an author, having only one low rated story posted here on Lit. I am, however an avid reader, and know what I like and dislike.

I'll limit my discussion to form and substance, rather than content. I was dismayed by comments to my own story (not here in SDC, but actual reader comments) that diss'd the subject matter, rather than form or function of my prose. - similar to a reader commenting, "Oh, how gross, he stuck that thing up her butt," and giving low ratings, when the story is clearly marked as 'Anal'. Thus, I voluntarily limit my discussion to form and substance, rather than content.

Some comments, while I was reading:

In mid-summer of 2009, I had just finished the third chapter of my chronicling of my ex's descent into being a slave.​

This first sentence really feels wrong to me. I'm not sure what it is about it - mixed tense? Repetition? possessive/passive disagreements? I'm not sure, but it really draws me out of a story. There is a better way to get this message across, and your story suffers right at the beginning, where you should be drawing the reader in. Perhaps something like "In mid-summer of 2009, I had just finished the third chapter of a story about my ex's descent into slavery and submission."

I had won a lottery of a substantial amount and set about turning her into a slave and debasing her for her arrogance and self indulgence, as she had treated my son and I like worthless beings.

I started to read her writings and gained an insight of a lifestyle I knew little about and found an admiration for her. I had never really been interested in it, and only wrote from reading and watching videos and talking to friends who had some experience in dabbling in the outer edges of it.​

Are these two statements really at odds with each other, as they seem to me to be?

Jen had opened the book to this new chapter and had read to him about the joys this side of sexual fulfillment could hold for him.
​

Evidently, your formatting was either ignored, or your submission was in a form that didn't convey the formatting desired. but in any case, here, apparently, Jen is speaking to the author, but refers to herself by name? either that or I'm not sure who's telling this part of the story

Oh! I see - there are three points of view - two in first person, and one in third person omniscient... (that formatting stuff again )

Once inside, Rachel instructed her to remove her clothes, fold them neatly and put them on the bed.
This one sentence pulled me out of the story. It wasn't real clear here who was going to be undressed, especially since Jen was supposed to be naked already - I looked back, then forward for clues, then continued reading.


OK, finished reading

I don't usually mind two or three narrators, or more, telling a story from each perspective, but each should bring something new to the table - just one of several examples: for two or three different people to tell that she lifted her skirt, showed him her butt plug, then expelled a ben wa ball from her pussy misses the point of telling a story from differing perspectives. Here, the different accounts of the same scene were quite similar, and led me to believe they were just different versions of the same account. But even my comment misses the point - How did she feel, showing this guy her compliance? Was she excited? Wet? Did anything else happen in the limo? From her perspective, what did his expression do? Did he get a woodie from seeing this gal show him her pussy and ass in the secluded confines of the limo? From his perspective, did her facial expression change? Were her nipples hard? What did her pussy look like, other than just wet? Was it shaved? Again, the different perspectives are fine, if they recount a tale from different view points, not just say the same thing with a different voice. It even seems that the limo scene could be the basis for a short story, in it's own right. Yet this is glossed over, seemingly as back story.

I feel that the whole first page, over 3800 words, was back story, history, told in triplicate. Could it have been revealed a little bit at a time, interspersed among scenes in the real story? Or perhaps made a part of the real story, by fleshing it out, showing the reader, rather than just telling? What were some of the video chats like? It really disappointed me that they were glossed over also, as I'm sure there were some really erotic moments in that phase of their relationship. The 'good part' of your story could have started there, and the narrators would have definitely had differing stories about those times. What did it feel like exposing yourself to the web cam? How did nipple and clit clamps feel? What thoughts raced through her mind as she masturbated? Did she loose herself in her orgasm? From another point of view: did the sight of her naked image make him hard? Did he masturbate as well? Did she react to his ministrations by showing or changing things? Zoom the camera so that he had a better view of some body part? Did he cum during video chat? And what did she see or do or feel in response to his climax?

As you see, you could almost write 3800 words about the video chat it's self. Yet it's glossed over as back story.

Repetition is another thing that really pulls me out of a story - as an example, not from your story, but still illustrative - "...she pulled her thong down to her knees and stuck her tongue in her pussy." You would never guess, until the end of the sentence, that there were two or or more people there. Nick names, terms of endearment and titles/functions, and physical attributes can all be used to reference the person being spoken about: “Tami slowly spread her legs to let the prospective buyer see her shaved pussy, glistening with desire. Mike's large black cock stood at attention, and he aimed that weapon of love toward the real estate agent's dripping wet cunt and pushed...”

All that said, I'm not really into BDSM, but have read a few stories of that genera, and enjoyed them. Here, the second half of the story was much more enjoyable than the first half, but I was left wanting more. Much more of the first half, and even more of the second half. This really feels like a two or three part story to me. Again, I really did like the second part, especially near her orgasm, where the phallus was 'expelled' apparently with some force... I was also intrigued by the vibe that was stuffed into her ass.

Had I been reading this story for my own pleasure, I would most likely have hit the back button somewhere in the first paragraph, and missed out on the good parts at the end.

Thanks for sharing your story, and for giving me the opportunity to help. I really do hope this isn't taken as too harsh, negative.

Jacks

 

[lance gt]

I'm not much of an author, having only one low rated story posted here on Lit. I am, however an avid reader, and know what I like and dislike.

I'll limit my discussion to form and substance, rather than content. I was dismayed by comments to my own story (not here in SDC, but actual reader comments) that diss'd the subject matter, rather than form or function of my prose. - similar to a reader commenting, "Oh, how gross, he stuck that thing up her butt," and giving low ratings, when the story is clearly marked as 'Anal'. Thus, I voluntarily limit my discussion to form and substance, rather than content.

Some comments, while I was reading:

In mid-summer of 2009, I had just finished the third chapter of my chronicling of my ex's descent into being a slave.​

This first sentence really feels wrong to me. I'm not sure what it is about it - mixed tense? Repetition? possessive/passive disagreements? I'm not sure, but it really draws me out of a story. There is a better way to get this message across, and your story suffers right at the beginning, where you should be drawing the reader in. Perhaps something like "In mid-summer of 2009, I had just finished the third chapter of a story about my ex's descent into slavery and submission."

I had won a lottery of a substantial amount and set about turning her into a slave and debasing her for her arrogance and self indulgence, as she had treated my son and I like worthless beings.

I started to read her writings and gained an insight of a lifestyle I knew little about and found an admiration for her. I had never really been interested in it, and only wrote from reading and watching videos and talking to friends who had some experience in dabbling in the outer edges of it.​

Are these two statements really at odds with each other, as they seem to me to be?

Jen had opened the book to this new chapter and had read to him about the joys this side of sexual fulfillment could hold for him.
​

Evidently, your formatting was either ignored, or your submission was in a form that didn't convey the formatting desired. but in any case, here, apparently, Jen is speaking to the author, but refers to herself by name? either that or I'm not sure who's telling this part of the story

Oh! I see - there are three points of view - two in first person, and one in third person omniscient... (that formatting stuff again )

Once inside, Rachel instructed her to remove her clothes, fold them neatly and put them on the bed.
This one sentence pulled me out of the story. It wasn't real clear here who was going to be undressed, especially since Jen was supposed to be naked already - I looked back, then forward for clues, then continued reading.


OK, finished reading

I don't usually mind two or three narrators, or more, telling a story from each perspective, but each should bring something new to the table - just one of several examples: for two or three different people to tell that she lifted her skirt, showed him her butt plug, then expelled a ben wa ball from her pussy misses the point of telling a story from differing perspectives. Here, the different accounts of the same scene were quite similar, and led me to believe they were just different versions of the same account. But even my comment misses the point - How did she feel, showing this guy her compliance? Was she excited? Wet? Did anything else happen in the limo? From her perspective, what did his expression do? Did he get a woodie from seeing this gal show him her pussy and ass in the secluded confines of the limo? From his perspective, did her facial expression change? Were her nipples hard? What did her pussy look like, other than just wet? Was it shaved? Again, the different perspectives are fine, if they recount a tale from different view points, not just say the same thing with a different voice. It even seems that the limo scene could be the basis for a short story, in it's own right. Yet this is glossed over, seemingly as back story.

I feel that the whole first page, over 3800 words, was back story, history, told in triplicate. Could it have been revealed a little bit at a time, interspersed among scenes in the real story? Or perhaps made a part of the real story, by fleshing it out, showing the reader, rather than just telling? What were some of the video chats like? It really disappointed me that they were glossed over also, as I'm sure there were some really erotic moments in that phase of their relationship. The 'good part' of your story could have started there, and the narrators would have definitely had differing stories about those times. What did it feel like exposing yourself to the web cam? How did nipple and clit clamps feel? What thoughts raced through her mind as she masturbated? Did she loose herself in her orgasm? From another point of view: did the sight of her naked image make him hard? Did he masturbate as well? Did she react to his ministrations by showing or changing things? Zoom the camera so that he had a better view of some body part? Did he cum during video chat? And what did she see or do or feel in response to his climax?

As you see, you could almost write 3800 words about the video chat it's self. Yet it's glossed over as back story.

Repetition is another thing that really pulls me out of a story - as an example, not from your story, but still illustrative - "...she pulled her thong down to her knees and stuck her tongue in her pussy." You would never guess, until the end of the sentence, that there were two or or more people there. Nick names, terms of endearment and titles/functions, and physical attributes can all be used to reference the person being spoken about: “Tami slowly spread her legs to let the prospective buyer see her shaved pussy, glistening with desire. Mike's large black cock stood at attention, and he aimed that weapon of love toward the real estate agent's dripping wet cunt and pushed...”

All that said, I'm not really into BDSM, but have read a few stories of that genera, and enjoyed them. Here, the second half of the story was much more enjoyable than the first half, but I was left wanting more. Much more of the first half, and even more of the second half. This really feels like a two or three part story to me. Again, I really did like the second part, especially near her orgasm, where the phallus was 'expelled' apparently with some force... I was also intrigued by the vibe that was stuffed into her ass.

Had I been reading this story for my own pleasure, I would most likely have hit the back button somewhere in the first paragraph, and missed out on the good parts at the end.

Thanks for sharing your story, and for giving me the opportunity to help. I really do hope this isn't taken as too harsh, negative.

Jacks

Jack, don't be sorry. I put this story up for discussion, because I was trying to write in a different style altogether, far from what I normally write like. I can see my pitfalls from the great feedback I've been getting and your's was a great contribution to it. It helps to see things from a reader's perspective and it's shown me where I made my mistakes. That's what I wanted to know about this story. Not so much the story itself, but how it was written. Thanks again for the great input, it is valuable, as are the rest. Although Honey's input made me horny, the naughty minx.

 

[jacks4u]

Lance,

Glad I could help! Oh, and by the way - stick around some, and comment on other's stories - you'll be quite surprised how much you learn here!. I know I've learned quite a bit. I'm trying to put that new found knowledge to good use, working on a story - about a husband and wife, swingers, that get snowbound with their sexy real estate agent, while looking at a house in the rural north east. I'm looking for a beta reader, but am only about 1/2 done with the first chapter...

 

[lance gt]

Lance,

Glad I could help! Oh, and by the way - stick around some, and comment on other's stories - you'll be quite surprised how much you learn here!. I know I've learned quite a bit. I'm trying to put that new found knowledge to good use, working on a story - about a husband and wife, swingers, that get snowbound with their sexy real estate agent, while looking at a house in the rural north east. I'm looking for a beta reader, but am only about 1/2 done with the first chapter...

I do Jack. If you go through the different threds throughout the site, you'll see my name popping up frequently. I spend lots of time in AH, because the other authors are a great source of story info. I mean, the things I read going on in there are at least 4 or 5 stories already.

 

[Pure]

note to lance

hi lance,
i read some of the first parts. then some of the critics' remarks. then i read some later parts. of course there are problems with the beginning, and your chosen narration method is a bitch to pull off.

looking up the road, however:

excerpt from lance's story Rachel took a silver, cylindrical probe, four inches long and slender in girth and wiped it several times up and down between Jen's pussy lips. Using her free hand, she worked the pucker open and slid the probe inside until it disappeared inside her ass.

Taking the controller it was attached to, she pushed buttons and it vibrated into action. The effects caused the sensitive nerve endings inside to spring to life and radiate out to her thighs and they quivered lightly. A long strand of slick, fluid ran out from the parted lips of Jen's cunt and dangled deliciously, shimmering with the vibration and lights shining on it.


Rachel retreived a thick leather strap 18" long and moved it up and down, studying the flex it had. Standing to Jen's side and giving Lance a clear view of what she was going to do, she brought her hand back and let fly with the strap. A slight whistle of air came just before the slap of the leather made contact. Immediately a band of bright red appeared across Jen's white ass. Rachel applied several more in different areas and Jen's ass cheeks glowed brilliantly, almost masking her Spank Me tattoo.

Jen threw her head back and clenched her teeth tightly as she felt the stinging brutality, but remained as still and silent as she was ordered to do. The pain she enjoyed so much, brought an increase in her surging cunt and the trail of viscous, shining fluid grew longer and thicker.
=====

this shows what i call the chief vice of stroke writers. yes, detail of sex scenes can be arousing, BUT marshalled appropriately, freshly, told with some flair.

may i mention one larger issue that kind of obtrudes. the story seems to have romantic elements at the start. but, if *I* were about to meet my true love and subject, i'd not bring a Rachel to work her over before i had a chance to. Rachel is plainly there for the usual reason: in a stroker, after the two do it in vivid detail, the obvious way to spice up the story further, is to have the voluptuous or well hung neighbor drop by.

i think you need to figure out your overall aim, and story, and type of story, THEN make sure all the details and process [narrative procedures] fit congruently.

personally, i was briefly intrigued with the 'love' element or theme, but it never got developed.

but, interesting experiment!

 

[lance gt]

hi lance,
i read some of the first parts. then some of the critics' remarks. then i read some later parts. of course there are problems with the beginning, and your chosen narration method is a bitch to pull off.

looking up the road, however:

excerpt from lance's story Rachel took a silver, cylindrical probe, four inches long and slender in girth and wiped it several times up and down between Jen's pussy lips. Using her free hand, she worked the pucker open and slid the probe inside until it disappeared inside her ass.

Taking the controller it was attached to, she pushed buttons and it vibrated into action. The effects caused the sensitive nerve endings inside to spring to life and radiate out to her thighs and they quivered lightly. A long strand of slick, fluid ran out from the parted lips of Jen's cunt and dangled deliciously, shimmering with the vibration and lights shining on it.


Rachel retreived a thick leather strap 18" long and moved it up and down, studying the flex it had. Standing to Jen's side and giving Lance a clear view of what she was going to do, she brought her hand back and let fly with the strap. A slight whistle of air came just before the slap of the leather made contact. Immediately a band of bright red appeared across Jen's white ass. Rachel applied several more in different areas and Jen's ass cheeks glowed brilliantly, almost masking her Spank Me tattoo.

Jen threw her head back and clenched her teeth tightly as she felt the stinging brutality, but remained as still and silent as she was ordered to do. The pain she enjoyed so much, brought an increase in her surging cunt and the trail of viscous, shining fluid grew longer and thicker.
=====

this shows what i call the chief vice of stroke writers. yes, detail of sex scenes can be arousing, BUT marshalled appropriately, freshly, told with some flair.

may i mention one larger issue that kind of obtrudes. the story seems to have romantic elements at the start. but, if *I* were about to meet my true love and subject, i'd not bring a Rachel to work her over before i had a chance to. Rachel is plainly there for the usual reason: in a stroker, after the two do it in vivid detail, the obvious way to spice up the story further, is to have the voluptuous or well hung neighbor drop by.

i think you need to figure out your overall aim, and story, and type of story, THEN make sure all the details and process [narrative procedures] fit congruently.

personally, i was briefly intrigued with the 'love' element or theme, but it never got developed.

but, interesting experiment!

Thanks for the helpful comments Pure. Just to straighten it out better for you. It was Jen's request that she enjoyed being serviced by a woman as Lance watches. Lance is inexperienced and Rachel shows him what Jen enjoys and how to do it.

 

[Pure]

It was Jen's request that she enjoyed being serviced by a woman as Lance watches.

uh huh. common subbie plan upon meeting one's true love and master for the first time.

 

[lance gt]

It was Jen's request that she enjoyed being serviced by a woman as Lance watches.

uh huh. common subbie plan upon meeting one's true love and master for the first time.

It was Jen's actual input into the story as a personal favourite of what she likes to do.

 

[poppy_cock]

Just to straighten it out better for you. It was Jen's request that she enjoyed being serviced by a woman as Lance watches. Lance is inexperienced and Rachel shows him what Jen enjoys and how to do it.

Hmm, I've been back over the first page a couple of times to see where Lance the author told us that Lance the character knew that but I can't find it... So I do understand Pure's confusion.

But that's a minor point. First of all, I do applaud you for having a go at something different. I've read a couple of your other stories too now, just to compare, and I can see that this story really was a new departure for you. It didn't quite work - as I think you already knew before you asked for feedback - but bravo for having a go.

Like the others, I found the change in points of view rather disconcerting, particularly when they became omniscient in nature. At times, I wasn't too sure whose head I was in. I think this could've worked better if you'd stuck to just 2 points of view - Lance's and Jen's.

I personally didn't like the paragraphs of dialogue with no attribution tags. I like to know where people are, be able to visualise the expressions on people's faces, hear their voices - and pure dialogue doesn't lend itself to that at all. Apart from anything else, it leaves the reader a bit hazy as to what the characters are talking about. Take this bit.

"Here we are. How do you like it?" .

"It's beautiful! It's better than the pics you sent."

"I have to confess something to you. I have another surprise waiting inside for you."

"Another surprise? Oh Lance, I'm so happy already being here with you, I don't know if I can take another one."

"I think it's going to show how much I care about your happiness and my desire to please you the way you like."

"Really? I can't wait. You've done so much for me already and I don't think I could be happier."

Hmm. What are they talking about? I think it's the house - but it might not be. Plus those lines of dialogue don't exactly sound natural. Do you really speak that way? Does Jen? It's a bit stilted, somehow.

And then later, again in a passage without tags, it really isn't clear who's speaking at all. I suspect there are 3 people, maybe more. But I don't know which one of them - certainly not of the girls - is speaking.

"Lance, where are you, Baby?

"I'm down in the office, Follow my voice, I want to show you something."

"I know what he's doing. I think you'll find this very interesting."

"What is it?"

"Oooh, I think I'll let you see it for yourself."

"Hey girls, I just brought up yesterday's events. You girls had some fun with Bitch, didn't you?"

"Yeah, we did. I wanted to see how her new piercings were doing. And I have to tell you, Master, the outfit that goes with it is gorgeous. I wouldn't have spent as much on it as you did, but it is beautiful."

"What are you watching, Lance?"

Now arguably, it doesn't matter. But it did to me - and presumably it mattered to your characters who said what.

I have to confess that this is something that I would never have read had I not been asked to. I doubt I'd have got much further than the first couple of paragraphs before hitting the back button, to be brutally honest - I'm really sorry. But as others have said, it does get better. Once you get to the third and fourth page, it picks up quite a bit. But having not been able to get into the first page or two, I didn't really know what was happening or why.

Couple of other things - daft things that will help more than you could imagine. First off, keep your paragraphs shorter - no longer than 6-8 lines apiece. Any more than that, and it becomes hard to focus on the screen - that's just the way it is reading something on a computer.

Read your work back to yourself out loud. It's not only the dialogue that needs to sound authentic - so does the narration. If there's an easier way of saying something, write it that way. If you fall over the words as you read it out loud, so will the reader fall over the words as he/she tries to read them in his/her head.

I hope there's something here that helps your future work. As I said, I've read a couple of your other pieces so I know that you can write.

 

[lance gt]

Hmm, I've been back over the first page a couple of times to see where Lance the author told us that Lance the character knew that but I can't find it... So I do understand Pure's confusion.

But that's a minor point. First of all, I do applaud you for having a go at something different. I've read a couple of your other stories too now, just to compare, and I can see that this story really was a new departure for you. It didn't quite work - as I think you already knew before you asked for feedback - but bravo for having a go.

Like the others, I found the change in points of view rather disconcerting, particularly when they became omniscient in nature. At times, I wasn't too sure whose head I was in. I think this could've worked better if you'd stuck to just 2 points of view - Lance's and Jen's.

I personally didn't like the paragraphs of dialogue with no attribution tags. I like to know where people are, be able to visualise the expressions on people's faces, hear their voices - and pure dialogue doesn't lend itself to that at all. Apart from anything else, it leaves the reader a bit hazy as to what the characters are talking about. Take this bit.



Hmm. What are they talking about? I think it's the house - but it might not be. Plus those lines of dialogue don't exactly sound natural. Do you really speak that way? Does Jen? It's a bit stilted, somehow.

And then later, again in a passage without tags, it really isn't clear who's speaking at all. I suspect there are 3 people, maybe more. But I don't know which one of them - certainly not of the girls - is speaking.


Now arguably, it doesn't matter. But it did to me - and presumably it mattered to your characters who said what.

I have to confess that this is something that I would never have read had I not been asked to. I doubt I'd have got much further than the first couple of paragraphs before hitting the back button, to be brutally honest - I'm really sorry. But as others have said, it does get better. Once you get to the third and fourth page, it picks up quite a bit. But having not been able to get into the first page or two, I didn't really know what was happening or why.

Couple of other things - daft things that will help more than you could imagine. First off, keep your paragraphs shorter - no longer than 6-8 lines apiece. Any more than that, and it becomes hard to focus on the screen - that's just the way it is reading something on a computer.

Read your work back to yourself out loud. It's not only the dialogue that needs to sound authentic - so does the narration. If there's an easier way of saying something, write it that way. If you fall over the words as you read it out loud, so will the reader fall over the words as he/she tries to read them in his/her head.

I hope there's something here that helps your future work. As I said, I've read a couple of your other pieces so I know that you can write.

You've been a great help Poppy, thank you. Thanks for taking the time to even read anything else of mine, AND saying it was readable. I thought I was more of a hacker trying to get some sex across with some dialogue and a story line. As for Jen's request, I found it. It's in her mailings to me and I didn't enter it in to the story. My bad, oops.lol

 

[lance gt]

Thanks everyone

I'm very happy with all the feedback I've received and it as helped me see where I went wrong with my idea. It made me look at my past work as well and see where improvements could have been made in them. I'm going to start a new story and use this to guide me along as I write. Probably going to take more than the usual two weeks it used to take. Hope I can come up with a winner next time. My appreciation to all for your help. Lance

I guess Peaches is next on the list to contact now

 

[PrincessErin]

.....