Story Discussion ScarletWings, Main Queue 09-18-05

oOScarletWingsOo

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The following is the introduction for a longer piece. Any feedback or nits are welcomed and appreciated.

With this selection of the work I'm interested to know:

* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.

* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.

* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited

* how do you feel about the dialogue

* how is the pace





Swing Line
© 2005 Nicole Best


Wednesday nights at the Folsom house were typical, and often quiet. Toni Folsom was tucked into bed, remote in her lap, filing her nails while Rick Folsom lay beside her with his next technical manual on restoring collector edition muscle cars.

The evening would normally end with Toni turning off the television, numbing her mind sufficiently for sleep. At which point she would playfully place her hand on whatever page Rick was reading to get his attention, prompting him to look up and she would steal a kiss good night. She would then roll onto her side. No more than five minutes would pass and then Rick would finally shut his book, turn off the lamp and join his wife in the pursuit of a restful night’s sleep.

When a news magazine’s segment mentioned a story on “Swinging in Suburbia”, Toni’s interest was piqued. She watched with superior interest as the story laid out the information on America’s fastest growing group of swingers: middle class married couples living in suburbia. She had certainly heard of swingers before, but her mental picture of them changed as a sweet married couple in their late 30's appeared on the screen.

She jabbed Rick in the side with her elbow. “My God! They could be Jeff and Renee down the street.”

Rick looked up for two beats, grunted his acknowledgment then returned to his book.

“Riiick. You have to watch this. It’s interesting.”

Toni pulled the book from his hands. Rick was about to protest but he saw the look in Ton’s eyes and the set of her jaw, from that he knew it would be useless putting up a fight. He simply let out a frustrated sigh.

“They apper so normal as if they could be our neighbors Jeff and Renee.”

“Toni, honey, they’re swingers not aliens.”

“I know that!” Toni said then quickly shushed him to continue watching.

As the story came to its conclusion Rick had to admit, it was an interesting broadcast. Thinking about the couples in the piece that shared their stories, he realized they were indeed the type of people who were your neighbors, they were the couple seated beside you at PTA meetings or the folks shopping along side you in the grocery.

Commercials for the late night talk show began to air. Rick looked at his wife, wondering why she hadn’t turned off the television. Toni had a very strange, entertained look on her face.

“Who do we know that you think would be “swingers”?” she made quote signs with her fingers as if to signify the title was simply that and carried no more weight than the air expelled to say the word.

“None, more than likely.”

“Okay.” Toni said, instantly exasperated by Rick’s rock steady realism and total lack of being able to humor the hypothetical. “Let’s say there is a source that says we have a “swinging couple” in our neighborhood. Who do you think best fits the bill?”

“Gosh Toni. I don’t know.”

She shot him a look that said “play along”.

“Like the news story spelled out all to well, these ‘swingers’,” Rick made the quote marks with his fingers to mock her. She didn’t notice. “are just ordinary Joe’s. But, if I had to take a guess,” he scanned the neighborhood couples in his mind, seeing them laughing and socializing with their significant others at BBQ’s and town hall meetings. He was about to acknowledge that he had drawn a blank when he remembered an instance two summers ago.

“Roger and Joanne Martinson.”

Toni was struck with disbelief. “No way.”

“Now wait a second. Hear me out. There was that time two summers ago at the party they gave. The boat house party.”

Toni began to look as if she were pulling that file from her memory banks.

“It was getting a little late. The sun had long gone down. I was helping to bag some of the trash. I walked around back near the dock and there they were, totally making out.”

“What?! I don’t remember you telling me about this.”

“I must have. Roger had Joanne’s bikini top pushed up and his other hand between her legs. They were really going at it.”

Toni decided to ignore Rick’s smile as he recalled what he’d seen and the fact that he hadn’t shared the story. “Well, that hardly screams ‘I’m a swinger.’”

Rick didn’t answer right away. He considered her statement then shrugged. “Maybe not. You didn’t say I had to have impenetrable proof.”

Toni nodded.

"My point is, any couple brazen enough to get busy while they have a house full of guest is probably looking to be seen. And said couple is probably wild enough to do more. Is all I’m saying.”

Rick quickly rolled over and switched off the light and the tv as if to let Toni know he was finished discussing the matter, but she was having none of that.

Something about the way Rick mulled over the thought of Roger and Joanne together, coupled with his omission of the story prompted Toni to investigate.

“Not so fast Patrick Michael Folsom.”

The use of his full name signaled to Rick that she meant business. In the shallow moonlight that managed its way between the drapes he could see that there was a smile on her pretty face. He was relieved.

“Exactly how long did you stand there to watch the two of them?”

Joanne grinding herself into the fingers of her husband’s hand flashed in front of him. Joanne’s moans were muffled as she nuzzled or kiss Roger’s neck. Her blonde hair draped over her husband’s shoulder and arm exposing darker roots.

Rick shrugged. “Not long. A minute? Half a minute?”

Toni positioned herself next to him under the covers.

“Uh-ha. Would you have wanted to watch longer?”

Rick’s body stiffened. He was unsure how to answer. Truth be known he would have liked to see how their sex went. He only had the pleasure of seeing one of her exposed breast as it smashed into Roger’s hand. Rick recognized the responsive dance of her body against Roger’s exploring fingers. It would have been super hot to know if a juicy telling sound, that made him hungry when he heard it, would have been audible from where he stood. But he couldn’t tell Toni that. He knew she’d flip.

Toni filled the silence with, “I have to admit, that Joanne has a really nice body. I guess that’s what not having children will do for ya.”

Rick responded by sliding his right arm under her back to pull her into his body.

“Antonia. I love every inch of you. I love our two girls. I wouldn’t have it any other way.” he cemented his statement with a firm kiss into her scalp. He took a deep breath of her freshly washed hair, allowed his senses to be flooded as she instinctively encircled his waist with her free arm and ran her bare foot up along the length of his lower leg. A pulse of awakening passed over his groin.

“You’ve never stopped turning me on.”

He lowered his face into her neck. Toni responded with a breathy sigh of contentment knowing this maneuver of his very well. It was followed by his masculine hands roaming her back and continuing to her bottom.

Toni loved her husband’s hands from the first time they touched her in the café 10 years earlier. They possessed the power to soothe and excite her. Passion and love flowed from them to settle warm and alive on her skin. She cherished every extended finger, every life line, even the tender calluses from his workouts. They held her firmly against his body now. He planted a lingering kiss on the tops of her breasts.

Toni allowed herself to fully relax. Her fingertips grazed over the emerging 5 o’clock shadow.

“Rub it on me.”

The sandpaper-like feel of his unshaven face thrilled her. It was a heady mixture of pleasure and pain perfectly formulated to catch her breath in her throat. That feeling along side the sight of his handsome face in her bosom created a spontaneously wet response between her legs.

Taking his cue he rolled Toni on her back. She allowed her legs to fall open, welcoming his mid section. The remainder of his 6'3" frame extended down passed her feet.

Rick took hold of her around her rib cage, just under her breasts. Seductively he licked along her lacy nightgown where he knew her nipples to be. His tongue fat, flat and flaccid at first roamed the surface of her night shirt until they came to life, poking eagerly against the fabric. The sensitive discs of flesh quickly tightened and drew into small pert nodes to transmit electrifying sex through her body as his tongued turned hard and pointed.

With gentle urgency he pulled down the neckline of her pajamas exposing the round, full tops of her breast. Rick looked up to see Toni’s anticipation but could only see the dim luminosity of her face in the moonlight. Her slight arching and writhing told Rick he was taking too long and encouraged him to do more, touch more and taste more.

Rick brought his hands down along the sides of her body. His fingers spread wide as he pulled gently on the fabric. The straps fell tight around Toni’s upper arms, trapping them to the sides of her body. This is what he wanted, her vulnerable and wanting underneath him.

Toni let out a shallow moan. Rick knew it was a “please” even though she would never say it. It crossed his mind to ask her to say “please”, to make her beg for what she wanted. He knew that Toni was much too strong and proud. Any hint of a submissive nature was much too far beneath her surface to recover and the pulse now beating between his legs was too impatient to venture into an expedition for the “please” he may never get.

He nuzzled his whole face into her cleavage. Toni let out the sexiest sound when she felt his stubble rake across her tender breast. It was a moan, a sigh and a sharp intake of breath birthed from every excited nerve ending. She was about to relax again as the nerves stopped firing until she felt Rick’s tongue snaking between her breast. He purposefully allowed his chin to trail lightly up and over the mound of her left breast.

“Oh yes.” she praised him in a panted whisper.

Her back arched, pushing an erect sensitive nipple into his mouth. He took it softly, gently, slowly between his lips, careful not to give her too much of what she wanted at once. Years of play with Toni had taught him that if he fulfilled every want and need exactly when she wanted; she’d be a quivering mass of orgasms and sweat wicked sheets in minutes, sated but all too quickly. Something tonight made him want to take his time, make every minute excruciatingly sexy for them both. He couldn’t resist wanting to importune every nonverbal “please” and “pretty please” from her body. He’d use every button he knew of to get them. And if she would just pace herself, he might be able to find new ones.

Toni’s fingers wove through is hair. He felt her pull slightly on the clumps, driving his chin down along the underside of her left breast. She moaned. The intoxicating cocktail of sharp, coarse stimulation rocked her.

Hearing her pleasure caused Rick to move teasingly to her right breast, dragging his cheek along the way. Her body wanted more, it moved underneath him. Her hips rose, in search of the hard point of contact it yearned for. Rick ignored his instinctive need to fill her and satisfy his own cravings. He partially pressed his body down on top of her to momentarily still her seductive movements.

Toni followed the tone silhouetted line of his flexed biceps with her eyes. She was suddenly reminded of how male Rick was. The feel of him and the smell of him brought back the knowledge of what a sexual being he was. Daily life tended to enable one to forget the awesome provocativeness of their partner. She was overwhelmed and deeply touched. She wanted to pull Rick inside her body. She wanted to make him apart of her, a physical meshing of not only their hearts and souls but their bodies.

At the moment she was feeling romantic and soul searching Rick bit gently down on her nipple snapping her back into the carnal. She squealed in splendid surprise. Rick managed to sink his teeth directly into the pleated surface of her areola, directly on the line that kept sweet murmurs from turning into exclamations of pain. Her hands tightened in his hair.

“Do it.” Rick heard from within him and within her response.

Tighter, tighter, tighter he bit down. Toni panted, and sighed, panted and sighed. He kept her walking the razor’s edge until she slipped down into pain, sweet, satisfying pain.

“Fuuuuuck.” she whispered hotly into the pillow turning her head and body away from him. The word shot straight to Rick’s groin. He moaned and pulled her back to him, pressing the succulent surface of her breasts together. He was about to lick rapidly against them but stopped. He lifted his head to listen.

“What’s the matter?”

“Shhh. I think I hear something.”

“I don’t hear anything.” Toni guided his face to hers and attempted to kiss him.

“Hold on Toni. I did hear something.”

They both waited in the dark until they heard a muffled, “Mommy?”

In unison they sighed, relieved then groaned.

“I’ll go.” Rick said already halfway off the bed.

“No, no you stay. She asked for me.”

Toni climbed out of bed, hurrying for her robe as the muffled “Mommy” got louder and slightly more insistent.

She was halfway to the door and into her robe when she said, “Hold this thought.”

Rick rolled back to his side of the bed disappointed, yet hopeful that their youngest daughter Amilia would go back to bed quickly. His own words from earlier drifted into his head and he thought. “Okay, I’d change this one thing.” He felt the sensation in his groin fade from a timid need to a dull ache. “So much for taking my time.”

Wriggling, he maneuvered out of his boxer briefs. His cock sprang out, slapping him in the lower stomach. His hand went straight to his balls to give them a gentle tug then rolled them slightly between his long masculine fingers to ease the tension. He didn’t bother to conjure a thought, it lit up his mind like a movie reel. Joanne’s flushed face filled his memory. Her panting was sweet and drifted over to him that day, light and exciting, colliding into his body leaving tiny shocks of awareness in his dick.

He hadn’t been totally honest about how long he had stood there and watched. Once the realization of what was unfolding in front of him sank in, he was frozen by the erotic nature of the action. Their touch was so hungry, visceral yet seductive. He remembered telling himself to leave, to not watch, but he didn’t. Joanne’s mews and audible purrs drew him in like a siren’s song.

He drank her in with his eyes. The once ordinary woman down the block was now sultry. He wanted her in a purely sexual way. Seeing her sexy and exposed called to him on a level that didn’t conflict, in his mind, with his marital situation.

The sound of Rogers’s voice brought him out of the spell. He instantly felt embarrassed and began to quietly back away from them. Just as he was about to exit, Joanne turned her head to allow Roger to kiss her neck. Dreamily she opened her eyelids and looked at Rick. He stopped in mid-stride in hopes that maybe she didn’t see him, but she smiled to acknowledge his presence. His heart missed a beat only to resume exponentially faster than what was normal or capable of remaining in its cage.

Before he could blink she turned back to place her lips on Roger’s mouth. Her tiny feminine hands pushed Roger’s hands over her ass. Without pause he began to kneed and squeeze her supple cheeks. Every strong handful pulled the tight cheeks of her ass apart exposing the tempting pink surfaces of her holes. She moaned louder, swaying her hips and arching her back. Joannne’s leg lifted over Roger’s arm, spreading her open. She leaned into him for support. Roger quickly thrust two of his thick fingers inside her. They pumped and pumped, making her bottom giggle in the most captivating way as the met their depth. A throbbing in Rick’s cock began to match those full thrusts. He felt his mouth turn dry from want. When Roger removed his fingers they were covered with the shine from her nectar.

Before he went to her to soothe his dry mouth with that nectar he forced himself to leave. He paused around the corner and listened for a moment longer.

“My God,” he thought to himself, “She saw me. She saw me. She wanted me to watch. She wanted me to watch.”

“Good. You saved my place.”

Rick opened his eyes to his wife climbing in bed close to him. He flinched when he felt her hand close over his on the head of his cock. He hadn’t even realized that he’d been stroking off.

“I’m sorry. Are my hands cold.”

“No.” he caught his breath.

“Oh. And you are so ready.” Toni said as she felt precum ooze from the swollen tip.

Rick moved his hand to let her smooth more of the natural lubricant into his shaft. She gripped him firmly, tight enough so that the blood throbbed against her palm.

“Babe! What got you so hard?”

It was an approving tone, but Rick almost didn’t want to answer. He almost couldn’t. The mini convulsions and twitches of pleasure were ravishing his body while she held him more gently and rubbed her thumb over the ultra sensitive skin below the head of his cock.

“Are you going to tell me what’s got you so incredibly hard?”

“I will...” he whispered, “...if you stop touching me like that. You’ll make me cum.”

Toni abruptly stopped but couldn’t resist rubbing her fingertips along his full balls.

“So?”

“I was thinking about sex.”

“What a surprise Rick.”

“No. Let me finish. Your hand on my balls like that is distracting.”

“Sorry. I couldn’t help myself.”

Licking her fingertips she ignored his hint to stop and began to rub again with slow circles. A low moan passed his lips.

“Sex with another couple.”

Toni’s stroking halted. Rick instantly regretted being so open and attempted a recovery.
 
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Hi SW,


* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.
I didn't see where she was faced with making a judgment call. I saw the husband sharing a fantasy, nothing more, at least not yet. Regardless, it's been less than an hour, easy. If anything, that's a little soon, I'd say, to be making serious judgments.

* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.
I liked the interruption! First, it was different. Second, it was so real it made me smile. Third, it gave Rick an opportunity to do something I was wondering why he didn't do anyway. If anything, I'd have liked it better if the interruption came sooner. More on this later.

* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited.
Ping-ponging back and forth from one head to another drives some readers nuts. It bothers me less than most, but I'm not sure it worked well in this scene. The head swapping left me to wonder whose story this is.

* how do you feel about the dialogue
Although it didn't 'Wow!' me, the dialogue flowed well and I can't recall any line that left me shaking my head.

* how is the pace
I thought the pace was flawless.

~

Any feedback or nits are welcomed and appreciated.

Nits, eh? ;) Ok...

Starting with the nittiest:
... managed to sink his teeth directly into the pleated surface of her areola
Ok, it's just one word, but is pleated really the term you want here?


I noticed a few possible style issues that bite most of us on occasion.

First, there appears to be an abundance of adverbs, culminating with this line:
He took it softly, gently, slowly between his lips
For more on how this may indicate some weakness in a sentence, please see:
http://www.users.qwest.net/~yarnspnr/writing/adverbs/adverbs.htm

Second, I found there was some 'tellyness'. One example:
Toni had a very strange, entertained look on her face.
I don't know for sure what is a 'strange, entertained look', so I have to stop and figure it out- or I just read on, but I'm not as into the moment as I could be. Though more difficult, showing me the expression (e.g. Her head fell to one side as her brows dipped low over her eyes...) would probably work better.
A few other arbitrary examples:
She shot him a look that said “play along”.
Toni began to look as if she were pulling that file from her memory banks.


~

Within the scene I saw three possible continuity problems.

The first, a minor one:
Rick quickly rolled over and switched off the light and the tv as if to let Toni know he was finished discussing the matter.
The last time I saw the remote, it was in her lap. I had a hard time picturing how he turned the TV off without just grabbing it, which I'd think would be rude and therefore worth mentioning.

The second, also relatively minor:
Early, when the light was first off and their eyes were less adjusted they could see expressions, the color of hair roots, etc.
In the shallow moonlight that managed its way between the drapes he could see that there was a smile on her pretty face. He was relieved. (...) Her blonde hair draped over her husband’s shoulder and arm exposing darker roots.
But later after their eyes might be more adjusted:
...but could only see the dim luminosity of her face in the moonlight

The third, and most serious, continuity problem:
Truth be known he would have liked to see how their sex went. He only had the pleasure of seeing one of her exposed breast as it smashed into Roger’s hand.
Yet this later section seems to contradict the above:
Her tiny feminine hands pushed Roger’s hands over her ass. Without pause he began to kneed and squeeze her supple cheeks. Every strong handful pulled the tight cheeks of her ass apart exposing the tempting pink surfaces of her holes. She moaned louder, swaying her hips and arching her back. Joannne’s leg lifted over Roger’s arm, spreading her open. She leaned into him for support. Roger quickly thrust two of his thick fingers inside her. They pumped and pumped, making her bottom giggle in the most captivating way as the met their depth. A throbbing in Rick’s cock began to match those full thrusts. He felt his mouth turn dry from want. When Roger removed his fingers they were covered with the shine from her nectar.

~

Overall impressions:

There was something almost too real about a couple sitting beside one another in bed doing separate activities only to have a stray stimulus stir them to passion. I smiled when Rick responded to Toni's overture about Joanne having a hot body, however the bulk of the scene did nothing for me, which is why I'd just as soon the daughter had interrupted earlier.

This may have had something to do with my personal loathing for stubble. From a reviewer's standpoint, this inclusion was an impressive bit of realism, but from a reader's standpoint I still cringed. I bring it up only to point out what a personal thing it is whether a reader finds an erotic scene arousing.

That trifle aside, it's a well-described, sweet and loving scene, but I thought that Rick not fantasizing about Joanna reduced the tension. When he later masturbated while envisioning Joanne I thought that was as close as the scene ever got to simmering. Good choice, imo, having Rick tell Toni the truth about what aroused him, even though he doesn't think it was such a good choice. :)

Would I read on? Maybe. Of course, I expect the couple will open their relationship to additional partners, which always inject some tension, but I haven't really bonded with either of the characters at this point, so I'm not quite willing to share their plight yet- if you know what I mean?

~

Hope some of that helps.

Take Care,
Penny
 
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ScarlettWings -

I'm starting in with comments I made while reading - the "nits" in all likelihood. :) I will wrap up the global questions at the end. I'm doing this because I tend to place comments as I read in deference to my tragically poor memory. Hence, too, the use of quotations. They're really just there because otherwise I will forget what I was talking about.

The first very quick note is to observe that you have a name, possibly your real one, attached to this file. I mention this not because it's wrong, but because there's a possibility you didn't notice it and didn't intend it to be there. Yes, I've done it myself.

One thing that does strike one in reading this is that it would probably benefit from the attention of an editor. There are fairly frequent typos and grammatical issues, at least enough that for me, they interrupted the flow of the work. Everyone thinks differently about grammar, of course, so feel free to stick that in the "nits" column. :)

I did find the first sentence a bit problematical. I might suggest just cutting it and starting with Toni in bed. I liked the image of her there filing her nails; somehow it seemed to sum things up nicely. But before that image, we have this:

oOScarletWingsOo said:
Wednesday nights at the Folsom house were typical, and often quite.

This made me ask both "typical of what?" and "is that meant to be "quiet," or is it meant to imply "quite (typical)." It didn't communicate much information, and it left me a little confused.

On the other hand, I quite liked this section:

She jabbed Rick in the side with her elbow. “My God! They could be Jeff and Renee down the street.”

Rick looked up for two beats, grunted his acknowledgment then returned to his book.

“Riiick. You have to watch this. It’s interesting.”

I could hear and picture them very well with this short interaction that caught their voices and attitudes nicely. The line about them being swingers, not aliens, was pleasantly amusing without being distracting and worked well.

Later, however, you go back to "tell" rather than "show" - an issue I'm constantly grappling with myself. Somehow it's always easier to see in someone else's work. Here, for example, I get description of his thoughts rather than action that conveys his attitude and reactions:

As the story came to its conclusion Rick had to admit, it was an interesting broadcast. Thinking about the couples in the piece that shared their stories, he realized they were indeed the type of people who were your neighbors, they were the couple seated beside you at PTA meetings or the folks shopping along side you in the grocery.

Similarly, here, it would be good to know what this looks like:

Toni began to look as if she were pulling that file from her memory banks.

I am also a little fuzzy on Rick's persona now and then. At first he's reading muscle car magazines and Toni is giving him the "Honneeee" line, and he feels like a sort of earthy, blunt guy. That goes a little oddly, for me, with this line:

“All I’m getting at is that any couple brazen enough to get busy while they have a house full of guest is probably looking to be seen. And said couple is probably wild enough to do more. Is all I’m saying.”

"Brazen" and "said couple" seem part of a more formal vocabulary, and I had trouble putting that together with the rest of Rick's description. It's not that a muscle car fan can't have formal diction, but it is a bit unusual and I think would call for some indication - a phrase or two - fleshing out his character a bit in order to explain it.

This next bit has something of the opposite issue:

He only had the pleasure of seeing one of her exposed breast as it smashed into Roger’s hand.

Possibly just me, but "smashed" gave me a rather gruesome image here. Similarly, this a little later on seemed oddly graphic:

His heart missed a beat only to resume exponentially faster than what was normal or capable of remaining in it’s cage.

(Oh, and that and "its" should not have an apostrophe here.)

A little below the breast quotation, I wasn't sure if "self deprivation" was quite what you intended? It seemed more like self-pity?

There's a fairly noticable shift in feeling and tone as you move into the sex scene. The pace slows substantially and becomes much more descriptive. This is, of course, entirely justified in many ways. However, it does get quite noticably slow, slow enough that it seemed that some of the blow-by-blow description might be trimmed in order to help the most significant elements better stand out. I am, of course, absolutely profligate in my own sex scenes, so I am both possibly a hypocrite for saying this, but also possibly the best person to notice my own characteristic issue. There's quite a lot of "tell" in there as well. It's good to get the emotional responses of the characters, but possibly greater brevity and focus on the most important responses might make them come through more powerfully.

I did like the interruption of the child. That made me smile and brought me back to a more real sense of their life. I think that that is part of the issue in the sex scene, to me; there isn't as much of their individual character in it, to my eye, and I lose track of them as real and earthy people in the wash of heavy emotions and sensations. I quite liked this simple little interruption and their very real reactions to it.

That's the nits out of the way. Now, on to your questions:

* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.

No. Actually I rather enjoyed it. A lot of swinger stories jump very hastily to the judgement - "OOOh I've always wanted to!" or, worse, "OOOh I've always been a total prude but let me immediately grab a handy person and start shagging." I like that you're giving it a little time to develop and for Rick to sweat a bit over how Toni will see it.

* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.

Yes. I quite liked that, and it did a good job of letting you bring in Rick's thoughts and memory of the other couple without making it a ridiculously long aside in the middle of other action. Nice choice on many levels.

* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited

Both give something to the story, and both have their limitations. Your POV here seems fine to me.

* how do you feel about the dialogue

Quite a lot of it is lean, interesting, realistic and at times amusing. There are, as noted above, one or two places where character voice seems to waver a bit.

* how is the pace

Good in the dialog sections, but I did find the pace of the sex itself a bit draggy.

On the whole, a pleasant read that sets your situation up clearly without being too heavy-handed or feeling badly forced. Thanks for sharing!

Shanglan
 
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Hi SW,


* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.
I didn't see where she was faced with making a judgment call. I saw the husband sharing a fantasy, nothing more, at least not yet. Regardless, it's been less than an hour, easy. If anything, that's a little soon, I'd say, to be making serious judgments.

I think maybe I should have used the word consideration. I intended for her to initailally show some interest and leave her to consider the act on a more personal level.

Penelope Street said:
* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.
I liked the interruption! First, it was different. Second, it was so real it made me smile. Third, it gave Rick an opportunity to do something I was wondering why he didn't do anyway. If anything, I'd have liked it better if the interruption came sooner. More on this later.

These are some comments I was told by someone else...I just needed to hear it a second and...a third time. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “Third, it gave Rick and opportunity to do something I was wondering why he didn’t do anyway”. Do what?

Penelope Street said:
* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited.
Ping-ponging back and forth from one head to another drives some readers nuts. It bothers me less than most, but I'm not sure it worked well in this scene. The head swapping left me to wonder whose story this is.

The bulk of the effect will be on the male character, but I’m not comfortable writing more than a @1,500 word count work in male POV. There are just things I couldn’t, wouldn’t know in order to carry chapter after chapter. That being said I feel that if I just write from the woman’s POV the effect/theme of the story is lost. So I’m struggling a bit.

I find it interesting that most erotica fans really prefer a limiting POV. I’m not sure if I’m to chalk that up to person preference or consider it to be a style requirement.

Penelope Street said:
* how is the pace
I thought the pace was flawless.

Flawless but slow in parts?

~

Penelope Street said:
Starting with the nittiest:
... managed to sink his teeth directly into the pleated surface of her areola
Ok, it's just one word, but is pleated really the term you want here?

Yeah, I think pleated is what I want. I don’t want “wrinkled” or “rippled”? I was going the route of using a non-cliche description of a taunt nipple. Seems like I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t. (intended cliche)


Penelope Street said:
First, there appears to be an abundance of adverbs, culminating with this line:
He took it softly, gently, slowly between his lips

Agreed. That could be better.

Penelope Street said:
Second, I found there was some 'tellyness'. One example:
Toni had a very strange, entertained look on her face.

Noted.


Rick quickly rolled over and switched off the light and the tv as if to let Toni know he was finished discussing the matter.
The last time I saw the remote, it was in her lap. I had a hard time picturing how he turned the TV off without just grabbing it, which I'd think would be rude and therefore worth mentioning.

Maybe a:

“Rick quickly rolled over to switch off the light and then the tv...”


The second, also relatively minor:
Early, when the light was first off and their eyes were less adjusted they could see expressions, the color of hair roots, etc.
In the shallow moonlight that managed its way between the drapes he could see that there was a smile on her pretty face. He was relieved. (...) Her blonde hair draped over her husband’s shoulder and arm exposing darker roots.
But later after their eyes might be more adjusted:
...but could only see the dim luminosity of her face in the moonlight

I don’t know what to say in explaination here other than the fact that he is on top of her and their faces are close. I guess that’s not very clear.

This:
“Her blonde hair draped over her husband’s shoulder...”
Isn’t between the main married couple. This is from Rick remembering the houseboat party.

Perhaps that needs some clarification as well?


Penelope Street said:
The third, and most serious, continuity problem:
Truth be known he would have liked to see how their sex went. He only had the pleasure of seeing one of her exposed breast as it smashed into Roger’s hand.
Yet this later section seems to contradict the above:
Her tiny feminine hands pushed Roger’s hands over her ass..

I think a quick fix would be to omit “only” to make it. “He had the pleasure of seeing one of her exposed breasts...” or to omit that sentence altogether.

Penelope Street said:
Overall impressions:

There was something almost too real about a couple sitting beside one another in bed doing separate activities only to have a stray stimulus stir them to passion. I smiled when Rick responded to Toni's overture about Joanne having a hot body, however the bulk of the scene did nothing for me, which is why I'd just as soon the daughter had interrupted earlier.

I don’t feel like it was a stray stimulus. The foreplay sparked from Rick comforting Toni then being aroused by her closeness.

I’m going to take the comment that some of this was “too real” as a compliment. Don’t we always complain or comment on those erotica characters that aren’t?

Penelope Street said:
This may have had something to do with my personal loathing for stubble. From a reviewer's standpoint, this inclusion was an impressive bit of realism, but from a reader's standpoint I still cringed. I bring it up only to point out what a personal thing it is whether a reader finds an erotic scene arousing.

I think I’ll keep it. But in getting three comments about the placement and duration of the sexual exchange between the couple I can see how it can be reserved for another place in the story.

Penelope Street said:
Hope some of that helps.

Yes it does. Thank you for your time.

SW
 
BlackShanglan said:
One thing that does strike one in reading this is that it would probably benefit from the attention of an editor. There are fairly frequent typos and grammatical issues, at least enough that for me, they interrupted the flow of the work.
I noticed that too, but assumed this was something of a first draft.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I’m going to take the comment that some of this was “too real” as a compliment. Don’t we always complain or comment on those erotica characters that aren’t?
Good. I meant it as a compliment.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
These are some comments I was told by someone else...I just needed to hear it a second and...a third time. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “Third, it gave Rick and opportunity to do something I was wondering why he didn’t do anyway”. Do what?
From a literary standpoint, I thought Rick fantasizing about his neighbor sooner would have increased the tension, although it was sweet that he didn't.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
The bulk of the effect will be on the male character, but I’m not comfortable writing more than a @1,500 word count work in male POV. There are just things I couldn’t, wouldn’t know in order to carry chapter after chapter. That being said I feel that if I just write from the woman’s POV the effect/theme of the story is lost. So I’m struggling a bit.
:) I assumed it was Toni's story. Go figure. Regardless, I'm not sure what you mean by struggling. I say go for it.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I find it interesting that most erotica fans really prefer a limiting POV. I’m not sure if I’m to chalk that up to person preference or consider it to be a style requirement.
I really don't mind swapping so much, sometimes I don't even notice, but one of my main editors gets all bent out of shape over it.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
Flawless but slow in parts?
I like slow. :)

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I don’t feel like it was a stray stimulus. The foreplay sparked from Rick comforting Toni then being aroused by her closeness.
By 'stray stimulus' I meant the swinging story on the television.

oOScarletWingsOo said:
I think I’ll keep [the stubble].
Absolutely you should keep it!
 
BlackShanglan said:
ScarlettWings -

I did find the first sentence a bit problematical.

Noted. ++ on all other nits


BlackShanglan said:
"Brazen" and "said couple" seem part of a more formal vocabulary, and I had trouble putting that together with the rest of Rick's description. It's not that a muscle car fan can't have formal diction, but it is a bit unusual and I think would call for some indication - a phrase or two - fleshing out his character a bit in order to explain it.

I’m going to have to disagree although I see where you are coming from. I’m going with the line of thinking that I want the characters to be a type, but not stereotyped. Without going through my entire character sketch of him the muscle car thing is a hobby and an escapism for him. It’s going to come up again. As far as his dialogue. He’s an entrepreneur. You don’t get to see that yet. But I think his word choice is appropriate.


BlackShanglan said:
Possibly just me, but "smashed" gave me a rather gruesome image here. Similarly, this a little later on seemed oddly graphic:

Gruesome? Really? The description of the foreplay between the second couple is reflected back to this - it’s urgent and visceral etc.

BlackShanglan said:
A little below the breast quotation, I wasn't sure if "self deprivation" was quite what you intended? It seemed more like self-pity?

Spelling error I need an “A”.

BlackShanglan said:
On the whole, a pleasant read that sets your situation up clearly without being too heavy-handed or feeling badly forced. Thanks for sharing!

And thanks for reading and adding your comments.

SW
 
Penelope Street said:
I assumed it was Toni's story. Go figure. Regardless, I'm not sure what you mean by struggling. I say go for it.

Thanks for the encouragement but geez, I'm not sure I want to climb that mountain.

This will get emotional and I wouldn't be able to handle comments from readers that are: "He doesn't read male enough" etc. after I've tried so hard to make him so.

I'll let it nag in the back of my mind but for now, Omni is my cop out.


:D
 
General comment about your story

I think the comments that were made on your story were very good and I don't think I can contribute anything constuctive above what has already been said except for the following very general statements.

Tightening a story by removing adverbs and adjectives really speeds it along. Your basic flow is fine. The people who comment here are trying to help; if you complete and post it expect none of those tender mercies from the general reader population. Some readers appear to be angry frustrated people who will lash out at anything they don't like.

The best comment I have seen was from someone's whose name I have forgotten: They said,"You didn't write the story the reader wanted to read." That is really true-and it is impossible to write a story that pleases every reader.

Write it to please yourself and turn off the comments if you can't stand the thought of being slammed after you have put so much work into something. Enjoy yourself!
 
I'm reluctant to comment on this piece for a few reasons. First of all, married-couple-in-bed sex just doesn't do it for me erotically, so it's difficult for me to assess the eroticism in the sex scene.

That's my own problem though, and not Scarlet's. Some people don't like gay fiction, some don't like non-consent, I just don’t like happily-married. Tolstoy said all happy families are happy in the same way; every unhappy family has its own special unhappiness, and I agree. It’s the unhappiness that I find interesting. Loving couples always seem to be the same, and not very interesting.

The second qualifier is that, while I think this is quite good throughout, it is also full of odd word choices and/or clichés that kept on getting in the way of my enjoyment. I think Shanglan noticed the same thing when he suggested you run the story by an editor, because there are really too many to specify in a general review like this, but they were like potholes in a road for me: none of them really serious enough to make you stop the car, but cumulatively they made for an uncomfortable ride, and they kept me from ever getting up to speed while I was reading. I'll give some examples later on.

But all that aside, I think this is a pretty good start. The interaction between Rick and Toni is nuanced enough to be interesting and keep them from being stock characters, and that bit about him withholding information about what he saw between Roger and Joanne sounds very realistic.

The details about how they go to bed every night are good too, though as BS said, the first two sentences threw me for an immediate loop and really have got to be changed. Wednesday nights are typical of what?

* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgment call about it.

I’m not sure what you mean by this, even after I read your clarification. I don’t see where Toni made a judgment call about swinging at all. She brought it up and asked Rick a little bit about it, and then the subject was dropped. It wouldn’t be believable if she just snapped her fingers and said, "Well, swinging sounds like fun to me, and I think we should try it."

I think what you're really concerned with is how to get them from happily-married to swinging, and how you make that plausible, and I think you're doing a fine job so far. That's how it happens—a little at a time. The seed is planted with that news story, it's watered by Rick's feelings about what he saw, and it'll start to grow and finally probably start nagging at Toni, an itch she wants to scratch.

If that's what you want to have happen, you might have her fantasizing a little about it as they're having sex, imagining Rick is Roger or someone else. People seem to do that all that time, and that seems quite believable.

In any case, if they are indeed happily married, it's not a decision she's going to make on her own.

* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.

Again, I’m not sure what “appropriately interrupted” means. Do you mean, “was if believable?” Then, yes. I’d say it was believable. Did it work to give Rick a moment to reflect? Yes.

It also works to suggest that their love life is rather dull and overly domesticated and could stand some attention. Any scene or event in a story that can accomplish all that is definitely worth keeping.

* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited

Jeez, I can’t answer this. It depends on the type of story, who’s doing the talking, and how skillful the author is at handling both POV’s. So far, this one seems to work pretty well as it is, though I wonder if you know whose story this is yet: Rick’s, or Toni’s, or both of theirs..

* how do you feel about the dialogue

Dialogue seemed pretty much okay to me. I thought it sounded perfectly natural for the most part. I confess that Rick's use of the term “impenetrable evidence” is new to me, though. (Did you maybe mean “incontrovertible evidence?”) It's one of those odd word choices that I mentioned earlier.

So let's get on to those word choices. As I said, their not obviously inappropriate or out of place, Their wrongness is more subtle, so this is going to seem very nit-picky, but in the end they bothered me, and soured what was otherwise a well-written beginning.

I picked a paragraph more or less at random for some examples:

Wriggling, he maneuvered out of his boxer briefs. His cock sprang out, slapping him in the lower stomach.

If he maneuvered out of his briefs, then his cock wouldn't spring out. If he lowered his briefs, then his cock might do this.

I know: it's nit-picky and very minor, and you can disagree with me. It stopped me though, so I thought I should mention it.

His hand went straight to his balls to give them a gentle tug then rolled them slightly between his long masculine fingers to ease the tension.

This is more a content issue. Maybe some men tug at their balls and rolls them between their fingers, but I sure don't. I feel sexual tension in my cock, not my balls, and I'm very, very cautious with what I do with my balls

He didn’t bother to conjure a thought, it lit up his mind like a movie reel. Joanne’s flushed face filled his memory.

The "it" here refers to "a thought", I guess. But it's not just any thought, it's a specific thought. (Shouldn't it be, "He didn't bother to conjure the thought…"). "Conjure a thought" is unfamiliar, and lighting something up like a "movie reel" likewise is an odd expression. Did you mean that he saw the thought like a movie?

And then, her face "filling" his memory doesn't seem right to me either. More like her face appeared to his mind's eye.

All in all, I might have said something like, "The memory of Joanne's flushed face came unbidden to his mind. He could picture every detail."

Her panting was sweet and drifted over to him that day, light and exciting, colliding into his body leaving tiny shocks of awareness in his dick.

Okay, I can imagine sweet panting, but I don’t think it would "drift", and I don't think of panting as being light and exciting. Something collides with something else. It doesn't collide into it. And the shocks in his dick, were they shocks of excitement or awareness? Comma between "body" and "leaving," BTW

As far as clichés, "restful night’s sleep" jumped out at me, as did Toni's use of Rick's full name when she wanted his attention. That's just too cute for me.

I feel bad digging up all this minor stuff because this piece is really good, but these little irritations distracted me as I was reading and were the main thing that kept me from really enjoying this. I just thought I should tell you.

With a little clean-up, you've got a very good beginning for a story here.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I'm reluctant to comment on this piece for a few reasons. First of all, married-couple-in-bed sex just doesn't do it for me erotically, so it's difficult for me to assess the eroticism in the sex scene.

That's my own problem though, and not Scarlet's. Some people don't like gay fiction, some don't like non-consent, I just don’t like happily-married. Tolstoy said all happy families are happy in the same way; every unhappy family has its own special unhappiness, and I agree. It’s the unhappiness that I find interesting. Loving couples always seem to be the same, and not very interesting.

:D I will keep this in mind when I read, although the anticipation of OScarlett's response is nearly killing me. Beautiful ref to Tolstoy, Doc.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I feel bad digging up all this minor stuff because this piece is really good, but these little irritations distracted me as I was reading and were the main thing that kept me from really enjoying this. I just thought I should tell you.

Don't feel bad at all. I appreciate you taking the time to point those issues out.
 
CharleyH said:
:D I will keep this in mind when I read, although the anticipation of OScarlett's response is nearly killing me. Beautiful ref to Tolstoy, Doc.

He stated that it's not his preference so I can't really argue with that. ::smile:: I will say that this is only the first portion of a longer piece so things are bound to change depending upon what decisions the characters make from this point on.

I guess it was more important for me to paint them as being happy in the beginning so where thier relationship ends up is a stark contrast.
 
oOScarletWingsOo said:
I guess it was more important for me to paint them as being happy in the beginning so where thier relationship ends up is a stark contrast.

Now I'm interested. Would it be out of line to ask how they're going to end up? I was just asuming that this was going to be the usual "swinging's great and we're a happier coupld because of it" kind of thing you see in porn: sheer fantasy.

As you probably already know, most Lit depictions of swinging (most Lit depictions of anything sexual) are terribly idealized and unrealistic. I mean, not even plausible, like changing partners is no more important than changing socks.

I'd be very interested in a story that attempts to deal more realistically with swinging. Is that where you're intending to go with this? Because if that's the case, then I take back my anti-happy couples complaint. I just assumed that they were going to be all happy and smiley throughout their extra-marital adventures.
 
* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.

To me, you are handeling this appropriately and realisticly. Any major lifestyle altering decision happens in stages. Be it taking a new job, buying a new house, having a child, or opening your relationship. Few people jump into things without some consideration and barring unusual circumstance, most give things careful consideration across a span of time. If you are really concerned with this aspect, one suggestion would be to add some more internal thought process/conflict. Internal conflict can drive the plot every bit as well as external tension. It' also easier to add to a piece, since reflection upon thing sis something we all do and often do at strange times.


* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.

I thought it worked well.

* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited

POV is going to be a strictly authorly choice. You can be successful in any POV, if you have the skill. Your choice of POV will rarely make or break a story. It's going to be the skill you apply to its use. I write in third person Omni and I have a good following here at lit. My success dosen't hinge on the POV, but over time, I think that POV has become tied in the minds of my readers with my particular style. On this issue I would say choose the one you are most comfortable with. Either way you go, there will be a select few readers who just don't like stories in that POV. That is a small segment of the readership though, and for most readers it isn't a major issue, unless you are chooseing a second person POV, which seems to be a turn off to a larger portion.

* how do you feel about the dialogue

Dialogue is my weakest point, so I'llleave that to better qualified commentators.

* how is the pace

Paceing seemed good to me. As did the flow. I will apply a caveat to that. In works where the erotic content isn't to my tastes, I sometimes miss paceing and flow related isues that are tied to the eroticism and not the general readability.

I didn't have the problem Doc did with the opening. To me, typical seems to include the leap of being routine or slightly boring.

My only other comment would be that you seem to have a real feel for the routine of domestic life with someone. It shines through again and again, in the way you relate simple, very "normal" things that are so well done the reader dosen't even notice them on the first pass. That ability is a real strength, because you can really accentuate something out of the routine and ift feels extraordinary when it comes. Much like King seting up a scene that is so placid and routine, the minor abberation to that routine seems much more ominious.
 
My humble offering

This being my first venture into the group, I'm not sure how helpful my comments may be. I do hope they offer an interesting perspective and don't sound too terribly amateur in such esteemed company.

With this selection of the work I'm interested to know:

* if you feel that there is too much space between Toni being presented with the possibility of swinging and actually being faced with making a judgement call about it.

I have to agree that I don't see Toni being faced with a judgement call in this section of the writing. You have planted the awareness of the lifestyle and definitely opened the subject for both her and Rick to think about. I am assuming that thoughts will start occurring to both of them now and the possibilities of opening their marriage will eventually culminate in the need for her to make a judgement choice but by no means have you shown her prepared to make, or indeed making, a choice right now.

I do like the way you've brought the idea into the story. I think it's very realistic that a chance happening (in this case the TV article) would be the catalyst for a change in a hum-drum yet loving relationship.

It seems like most often when you see a story that engages a straight married couple in something outside of ordinary sex, it's either an extremely unlikely scenario in which one partner is severely over-sexed and wants an excuse to add more names to their scorecard with their partners approval or the exact opposite extreme of a desperate attempt to save a marriage that looks good on the outside but is miserable in its reality.

While a case can be made for either a porn movie script or a quick, tension-releasing handjob story, neither scenario is actually believable if you want to engage your mind in the story beyond it's physical effects because in a solid healthy marriage that's simply become 'boring' neither of those plots is remotely possible.

* if the sex is appropriately interrupted.

I found myself smiling at the timing of the interruption, very typical of the innate sense of timing when children of that age are in the house. I liked the interaction about who would respond. It showed a sharing of responsibility that isn't typical at all in a marriage that has problems and helped me feel more comfortable with the idea that this isn't a marriage that is falling apart.



* if, as a reader, is it more your preference to read a story that is either first person or third person limited

In my humble opinion, if the story is well-written then it doesn't matter what the point of view is. I think the author is more important to the way a story is written than the reader is to the way a story is read.

We all bring our personal experiences and views to each story that we read and there is no way that the author can know what inflections and nuances each reader will bring to their reading. When I write I try to give the reader the most transparent view I can of my mind in the story I'm writing yet knowing full well that they are going to interpret each word I've chosen with their own meaning. Occasionally, my favorite editor will mention a point that would never have occurred to me because my experiences differ greatly from his. When that happens I try to adjust my wording to better describe what's happening inside me taking into account the reader's perspective.


* how do you feel about the dialogue

The dialogue felt real to me. It happens to be a weakness in my writing so I don't think I'm qualified to say more than that.


* how is the pace

The story seems to be progressing at a fairly natural pace. It's very rare that anything in the real world would happen in lightning flashes so in writing that attempts to emulate reality it makes sense that interruptions and daily occurrences should happen. I think you're handling it very well so far.


I only have one comment outside of the questions you posed:

Weighing in on the the question of the first paragraph, my opinion is that I like it. To me it gives the reader space to fill in their own thoughts on what 'typical' means in a settled marriage. I'm not sure that the words "and often quiet' are needed since the word 'typical' is used in a way that suggests exactly that, a dull steady routine followed week in and week out, however it didn't detract from the sentence for me.

All in all, I was drawn into the story and I would certainly look forward to reading more of it.
 
I meant to get back to you yesterday, but something came up. Apologies. I know it is a longer story, but in a way you lose me from reading anything further, and I just want to tell you why by assessing this piece on its own. Please take no offence in this, because my intention is only to help, and I am only one person with one perspective.

My concern about the story is something you did not ask in your questions, and it's more about the couple. They are talking about some exciting and adventurous possibilities regarding swinging and exhibitionism, and I am anticipating something different from their "typical" sex. No offence, but you don't deliver and so I am a bit disinterested in the sex when it initially happens, although you try to reverse it in the end, but you lost me again since nothing different happened after dealing with the daughter. If the daughter interrupted something more daring, then it would be a much more effective and tense, suspenseful moment where I might wonder, what happens next? But their sex only seems natural, which is not a bad thing … so the interruption should be typical as well. In other words, Rick should not be so disappointed. If something more exciting happened afterwards, with the breathing space that te daughter allows fo, which is what I thought would happen, then the sex could have been even more intense, but the current main "vanilla" sex scene is too long for me since nothing "adventurous" or different from their usual sex seems to happen.

Also, you start with swinging and her excitement and curiosity. Why she is offended in the end? I have no idea. I need to know in the beginning just "how" vanilla and conservative the couple is, and perhaps a line or two about how they love each other but can't share their fantasies with one another, and obviously how jealous she is needs mention and emphasis if I am to believe the end of this segment.

Following are just some areas where I think you can build the story.


I will not focus on grammar, since that is not my strength, but here is what I see:

Wednesday nights at the Folsom house were typical, and often quiet. Toni Folsom was tucked into bed, remote in her lap, filing her nails while Rick Folsom lay
With three Folsoms in this paragraph, I wonder if it wouldn't gain much more strength by saying her husband Rick? It seems redundant to say the last name again.

She would then roll onto her side. No more than five minutes would pass and then Rick would finally shut his book, turn off the lamp and join his wife in the pursuit of a restful night’s sleep.

When a news magazine’s segment mentioned a story on “Swinging in Suburbia”, Toni’s interest was piqued. She watched with superior interest as the story laid out the information on America’s fastest growing group of swingers: middle class married couples living in suburbia. She had certainly heard of swingers before, but her mental picture of them changed as a sweet married couple in their late 30's appeared on the screen.
I feel you need a bit of cohesiveness here – a better transition from one paragraph to the next. She would read, I understand, but the next paragraph I became a bit confused. Which night did the magazine pique her interest? Tonight? Superior interest seems a bit of an odd choice in word, and she watched seems to indicate TV, a bit awkward. For example, if she were following in the newspaper, would it not add clarity to say she either read or followed? Or if she is watching TV, hm, did I miss that part? :)

“Riiick. You have to watch this. It’s interesting.”
I have a personal issue with using multiple letters to draw out a name or sound. In my opinion, I think more sound description of how she says the name would go a long way. For example "Rick," she whined. Or something else.

Toni pulled the book from his hands. Rick was about to protest but he saw the look in Toni’s eyes and the set of her jaw, from that he knew it would be useless putting up a fight. He simply let out a frustrated sigh.
I think, again, the effectiveness of words could work here. If she wants him to listen, does one simply pull something away, or do they rip it from their hands? That Rick was about to protest from the jaw and eyes, is clear. "from that he knew …" is redundant to me. IE Rick was about to protest but he saw the look (perhaps determination?) in Toni's eyes and the (description needed – what kind of jaw set? – tense?) of her jaw. He simply let out a frustrated sigh.

“They appear so normal as if they could be our neighbours Jeff and Renee.”
I think a bit of description about how she says this could go a long way in setting up what should be a humorous next line. …

“Toni, honey, they’re swingers not aliens.”

As the story came to its conclusion Rick had to admit, it was an interesting broadcast. Thinking about the couples in the piece that shared their stories, he realized they were indeed the type of people who were your neighbours, they were the couple seated beside you at PTA meetings or the folks shopping along side you in the grocery.

This whole thing kind of bothers me. Its not that it is bad, but you have not told me just how vanilla and conservative this couple is yet, and I think that's important to my believing that they would be so interested or shocked, if you know what I mean, because I really love what follows. It adds a curiosity and a dimension of interest to know how they will, I assume, discover the answer:

“Who do we know that you think would be “swingers”?” she made quote signs with her fingers as if to signify the title was simply that and carried no more weight than the air expelled to say the word.

Toni began to look as if she were pulling that file from her memory banks.

I like this a lot, and would love it much more if I knew just a bit more of Toni and Rick's conservative vanilla' ness' to even be shocked at public sex. They can't be that naïve? But if they are, I need to know more about their missionary sex life, if you know what I mean? Otherwise, I like their ensuing conversation, a lot.

“Not so fast Patrick Michael Folsom.”
Immediately this makes me think of a mother, not a wife. It sounds more joking from a wife to a husband, sarcastic and fun between lovers, even if followed by: "The use of his full name signalled to Rick that she meant business."

“You’ve never stopped turning me on.”

I am a bit, well, confused about this. Up until now, I am gathering their sex life is not all that exciting. She is curious about swingers, and he is curious to have watched the couple next door. Is this appeasement? Sarcasm?

Anyhow, I hope something or other helped. :) :kiss:
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Now I'm interested. Would it be out of line to ask how they're going to end up? I was just asuming that this was going to be the usual "swinging's great and we're a happier coupld because of it" kind of thing you see in porn: sheer fantasy.

As you probably already know, most Lit depictions of swinging (most Lit depictions of anything sexual) are terribly idealized and unrealistic. I mean, not even plausible, like changing partners is no more important than changing socks.

I'd be very interested in a story that attempts to deal more realistically with swinging. Is that where you're intending to go with this? Because if that's the case, then I take back my anti-happy couples complaint. I just assumed that they were going to be all happy and smiley throughout their extra-marital adventures.



The bigger impact is going to be on Rick...hence my struggles with choosing him as my POV character. I wanted to make it more real, because like you said it's a much heavier decision than choosing what socks to wear one day and the decision you make to open your marriage up in this way doesn't just fade away after one night.

As for how they end up, the simple answer would be to tell you that you'd have to read through to the finish, but first I see that I have to get readers more interest from jump street. So I've got some work to do.
 
CharleyH said:
I am a bit, well, confused about this. Up until now, I am gathering their sex life is not all that exciting. She is curious about swingers, and he is curious to have watched the couple next door. Is this appeasement? Sarcasm?

Anyhow, I hope something or other helped. :) :kiss:

It's neither. It's gonna be vanilla. They aren't of a particular lifestyle and they've been together for a long period of time. Sex goes for boil, to simmer, to settled sometimes. And it has for them. I think it's good that you read it that way because it isn't intended to be anything "hot".

I realize after some of the feed back that what full throttle action I have included isn't well timed, but that can be fixed.

Maybe some of your confusion comes from my indecision on what eyes to tell the story from. When I intended to be omniscient I think I pulled too far back and excluded Toni too much. Her true thoughts and reactions aren't coming through.

I had no intention for her to be "excited" (revving to do it or sexually aroused by the idea), just curious. It's a new subject for her and one, in the following part, she will start to think about less in the context of some abstract couple and more in terms of what it means for her relationship and their sex.

Rick on the other hand is already there. He already knows that it turns him on. And what has been suppressed for him because he "knows" it wouldn't be something Toni would even consider is now a possibliity. I want the question for the reader to be "who will make the first move?"

Thank you for commenting -- all input has helped on varying levels.
 
oOScarletWingsOo said:
It's neither. It's gonna be vanilla. They aren't of a particular lifestyle and they've been together for a long period of time. Sex goes for boil, to simmer, to settled sometimes. And it has for them. I think it's good that you read it that way because it isn't intended to be anything "hot".
So this scene is meant to set the stage for the turmoil to follow, rather than excite? In that case, I think it works as an opening, though a little leaner might be better.

Maybe some of your confusion comes from my indecision on what eyes to tell the story from. When I intended to be omniscient I think I pulled too far back and excluded Toni too much. Her true thoughts and reactions aren't coming through.

I had no intention for her to be "excited" (revving to do it or sexually aroused by the idea), just curious. It's a new subject for her and one, in the following part, she will start to think about less in the context of some abstract couple and more in terms of what it means for her relationship and their sex.
I thought Toni was curious, but that was all. I don't think you need to hit the reader over the head with a brick on this one. What was missing for me, especially early, was just how interested Rick is.
 
oOScarletWingsOo said:
The bigger impact is going to be on Rick...hence my struggles with choosing him as my POV character. I wanted to make it more real, because like you said it's a much heavier decision than choosing what socks to wear one day and the decision you make to open your marriage up in this way doesn't just fade away after one night.

As for how they end up, the simple answer would be to tell you that you'd have to read through to the finish, but first I see that I have to get readers more interest from jump street. So I've got some work to do.

I'll probably get jumped on for this, but, to be honest, I think it would be an easier decision for Rick to make than for Tori. Men are notoriously casual about sex. A man is more capable of knocking off a quick piece and just walking away afterwards than most women seem to be. I think all he'd need would be his wife's permission. He'a already fantasizing about it. He's way ahead of Tori.

As for generating reader interest, the old rule is to present a problem at the outset. We're all interested in problems. We gossip about problems, not about happy people. You're already hinting at that when you tell us that Wednesdays at their house are "typical." There's not much fire left in their relationship. That's basically what drives them to it, isn't it?
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I'll probably get jumped on for this, but, to be honest, I think it would be an easier decision for Rick to make than for Tori. Men are notoriously casual about sex. A man is more capable of knocking off a quick piece and just walking away afterwards than most women seem to be. I think all he'd need would be his wife's permission. He'a already fantasizing about it. He's way ahead of Tori.
Anyone who would jump you for this statement is simply ignorant, or in denial, of basic biology. Interesting point though. Why is this Rick's story?

dr_mabeuse said:
As for generating reader interest, the old rule is to present a problem at the outset. We're all interested in problems. We gossip about problems, not about happy people. You're already hinting at that when you tell us that Wednesdays at their house are "typical." There's not much fire left in their relationship. That's basically what drives them to it, isn't it?
I thought the plan for the story was to show the couple's transition from happy to unhappy? To me, this would be the most interesting facet of this story.
 
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Penelope Street said:
Anyone who would jump you for this statement is simply ignorant, or in denial, of basic biology. Interesting point though. Why is this Rick's story?


I thought the plan for the story was to show the couple's transition from happy to unhappy? To me, this would be the most interesting facet of this story.

I don't want to give the pivotal moment away. I hope to post the story when its finished. :D

But the weight of the story is centered around Rick and his change internally and how he has to adjust. I wanted to write something where it's not the woman having to do the adjustment and be the glue in the relationship. Maybe some of that will be more clear if you peek at the character sketch I put up -- at least that's a bare bones outline of where I want him to grow from.

I think that both could be points of interest, depending on what part of the story the reader gravitates to. Are they more interested in the sex and how they will "spice it up" or are they interested in the ultimate downfall of their relationship? Because it is a train wreck waiting to happen let me tell ya.

But since what is posted is the opening of the story it can certainly be stronger and timed better.


CharleyH said:
you have gone forward? Wonderful!

Gone forward with what?
 
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