Story Discussion: July 6, 2007 by angelicminx

[angelicminx]

Story Discussion: July 6, 2007. "Now and Forever" by angelicminx

I consider Now and Forever a romance. The story is set in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. I don’t make that clear in the first two chapters, but I may, either in the rewrite or in later chapters. I believe the fact that it is set in Cherry Hill is pertinent to the story. I love the twist at the end of Chapter 1, and have received some positive comments about it. However, that doesn’t mean that I’m married to it, if it means I’ll have a better story by changing it.

A warning for those that may have an issue with male sexual contact; this may not be the story for you. In my effort to not offend readers who don’t care for gay male sex, I’ve toned down those particular scenes and I’ve been told it comes across as avoidance. Any advice there would also be appreciated.

 

[angelicminx]

For those that have the time to read both chapters, I’d appreciate it. For those that don’t, my main concern is with Chapter 2.

Now and Forever Ch. 01

Now and Forever Ch. 02

 

[angelicminx]

I think I caught all of the grammatical errors, so I’m not worried about that. (Though if there’s something that sticks out, don’t hesitate to tell me.)

What I’m basically looking for is what works, what doesn’t, cheesy dialogue, continuity issues, flat characters, eye-rolling moments, weakness, strength, and anything else that sticks out. I really want to fix the ‘errors’ before I continue the story.

For the military people out there, I do know that the military discharge in the first chapter is most likely not technically accurate, and I will address that issue at a later time. Any suggestions in that area will be appreciated, however.

Please, don't hold back. When it comes to improving my writing, I can take it. (I may cry as I 'fix' it, but you'll never see it. ) It's only through constructive criticism that a writer improves.

Thank you for taking the time to read and critique my work. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say, and to making the necessary improvements.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I cheated, I started reading your story a couple of days ago.

I’ll leave my thoughts and comments on Ch1 first. There was something uncomfortable in your writing right from the start. Brogan referred to his wife, but never used the words, she or her etc. Then it dawned on me that they were a gay couple, and it all made sense. I found the constant references to husband and wife jarring, almost to point of being annoying.

The four year deployment caught my attention first. It seemed excessive to the point of being unbelievable. And just where is Brogan deployed? The deer story, while cute, was unbelievable. During the rut, a buck will attempt to impregnate as many does as possible, so the likelihood that he is around to take care of the fawns is highly unlikely.

I didn’t care for the letter after letter after letter format of the story, I never got a feeling for either character, especially Kit.

Personally, while I’m not a fan of gay love/sex stories, I think the story would have been a lot stronger had you not try to hide the fact that Brogan and Kit were a gay couple. I think you put a lot of your energy in this piece into trying to cover up that they were gay for the surprise ending. I felt for a lot of the story that I was being lied to or at least intentionally deceived.

I would like to see this story rewritten without the deception and have the letters reflect how each of them are dealing with their separation from the other, and hearing their hopes for the future when Brogan comes back. I think you missed an opportunity for a story with real meaning.

 

[Varian P]

Hi Minx,

I was pleased to see your story involves military life, as that's a big element of the story I'm working on. I hope you'll bear in mind, and also forgive me, as you read my comments, that as I mention aspects of your story that relate to believably depicting a military setting and characters, I'm sort of chastening myself, on the side.

In the opening of your story, through the letter Brogan receives from his wife, I'm having some trouble reconciling who the main characters are. I'm guessing, given the video of their lovemaking, that the setting is meant to be contemporary. I have no idea, as the story begins, what Brogan's rank is, but not having anything to tell me differently, I'm going on the assumption he's an enlisted grunt. No doubt there are exceptions, but these days, most of the young people joining up are not from upper or even middle-class backgrounds, and most don't have more than a high school education. So the language he uses in his letter seems too delicate, too coy, almost Victorian. I think the letter can be tender and romantic without talking about silken sheaths and such, especially given that they're adventurous enough to get into dildos and taping their lovemaking.

I was also thrown by her reference to getting promoted to Assitant VP of a bank. Given my inference of their age and background, I'm really skeptical she'd be a corporate executive. Assistant manager of a branch, maybe.

Also, the two letters are so similar in voice, it's as if they were written by the same person.

I wonder if it would be helpful for you to try to google up some actual letters soldiers write home to their loved ones, just to get ideas for voicing the character. Doing that, you might come up with some little details about military life that would give an authentic flavor to the letters.

Clever moment there, with his cryptic reference to their argument. Now my curiosity has been piqued.

I thought the scene of the taped “phone sex” worked so-so. Phone sex in real life is already a distant second to the real thing, so a depiction of phone sex is much less stirring than a depiction of a real encounter. I think it would be more erotic if the scene was him, his thoughts, his sensations as he touches himself, interspersed with the recording. Done a certain way, I think it could also be very moving.

Brogan's recording for his wife felt much more real to me than his earlier letters to her—less flowery and coy.

You're keeping me intrigued with the repeated, cryptic references to their secret plan. However, by the middle of the second page of the first chapter, I have to say my interest is really flagging. Their phone sex, her anxiety, and her intervention adventures just aren't enough of a plot to keep me interested.

Alright, I'm perking up now, with him waking up in the hospital, and their actual conversation.

I realize that there are different modes of communication: first letters, then recordings, now a phone call, but I almost feel like the people talking on the phone aren't even the same people who exchanged those first two letters, their voices have changed so much. I can't decide if you're inconsistent, or brilliant. Between him being deployed and her being alone and worn down by fear, no doubt they both have changed a great deal. And people really do talk differently in writing versus email versus a phone call. I'd still suggest deflowering the language of those first letters a bit, but I feel like the evolution of their way of talking is the one way in which these characters are dynamic, rather than static, at this point.

And the end of chapter one...

Wow. That was a twist, alright. On an intellectual level, I appreciate it immensely. You show us this relationship and as readers we go forward with our assumptions and associations, and then you reveal K., and we are left to ponder our response—whatever it is—and for the willing, ask ourselves why we have the reactions we do. It's a delicious bit of gender subversion. Fiction in drag, in a sense. I will ponder more, and perhaps say more.

I'm less sure how well it works for your story. As a reader, I feel less like there was a plot twist, as opposed to the author carefully laying a trap for me, as if that final one-eighty was the entire point of chapter one. I'll think more on this, as well.

One little thought: the he/his/wife gender language was a bit troubling. Kit identifies as male, but considers himself a wife in terms of their marriage? I certainly know women who have wives, and men who have husbands, but I guess I don't know any male-identified people who think of themselves as wives, or female-identified people who think of themselves as husbands. This is a big, complex gender/language issue that's been plumbed to far greater depths than I've gone, and I'm in no way saying it's not okay for everyone to work out what works for them, but to my ear, it feels a bit as though you've slotted your gay couple into a heterosexist dyad for the sake of your clever twist.

I'll continue to ponder chapter one, and also have a look at chapter two, and no doubt will have more to say.

For now, kudos for taking lots of chances with this one.

-V

 

[Varian P]

...comments on Ch1 first. There was something uncomfortable in your writing right from the start. Brogan referred to his wife, but never used the words, she or her etc. Then it dawned on me that they were a gay couple, and it all made sense. I found the constant references to husband and wife jarring, almost to point of being annoying.

I'm slow; I didn't notice this at all. The flip at the end was a complete surprise.

Personally, while I’m not a fan of gay love/sex stories, I think the story would have been a lot stronger had you not try to hide the fact that Brogan and Kit were a gay couple.

See, this is the interesting thing about this piece, for me. Assuming a perfect execution where we fall in love with this couple and get emotionally immersed in their love, in our anxiety that he could be wounded or killed, that something could happen to Kit back home, in getting fabulously turned on by the sex--we would never have the exact same emotional and erotic response to the story if we knew up front that Kit was a man.

I'm not saying we aren't capable of getting deeply emotionally invested in a romance between two men or two women. I am saying that for most straight people (and maybe even for most gay and/or queer people) we respond differently to a romance that fits into heteronormative constraints (a man and a woman fitting neatly into their traditional roles as husband and wife) as opposed to a gay couple. And there are myriad, complex reasons for that, not least of which is that we've all been raised consuming books and movies and sit coms, and have little internal libraries of m/f romances that are accessed when we encounter new stories.

Gosh, does it show that this has triggered a major interest point, for me?

I think you put a lot of your energy in this piece into trying to cover up that they were gay for the surprise ending. I felt for a lot of the story that I was being lied to or at least intentionally deceived.

I would like to see this story rewritten without the deception and have the letters reflect how each of them are dealing with their separation from the other, and hearing their hopes for the future when Brogan comes back. I think you missed an opportunity for a story with real meaning.

That would be a really different opening chapter. It would lose the psych experiment element (I don't think I'd be left asking myself the same questions I'm asking myself, now), but could be rich and rewarding in a completely different way.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I was also thrown by her reference to getting promoted to Assitant VP of a bank. Given my inference of their age and background, I'm really skeptical she'd be a corporate executive. Assistant manager of a branch, maybe.

I didn't have a problem with this. With a lot of National Guard Units, and Reserve Units being deployed, the average age of the men is somewhat higher. The Discovery Channel had a series last summer that followed a West Virgina (I think) unit from the the time of their callup, through their deployment, to their return home. There were older men in the unit, and even one father and son combination.

Also, the two letters are so similar in voice, it's as if they were written by the same person.

I wonder if it would be helpful for you to try to google up some actual letters soldiers write home to their loved ones, just to get ideas for voicing the character. Doing that, you might come up with some little details about military life that would give an authentic flavor to the letters.

Having spent some of my youth in the military, I agree with your comment. Some of the letters didn't feel genuine, while others I thought were pretty good.

Alright, I'm perking up now, with him waking up in the hospital, and their actual conversation.

I thought this is where the story began to improve.

I realize that there are different modes of communication: first letters, then recordings, now a phone call, but I almost feel like the people talking on the phone aren't even the same people who exchanged those first two letters, their voices have changed so much. I can't decide if you're inconsistent, or brilliant. Between him being deployed and her being alone and worn down by fear, no doubt they both have changed a great deal. And people really do talk differently in writing versus email versus a phone call. I'd still suggest deflowering the language of those first letters a bit, but I feel like the evolution of their way of talking is the one way in which these characters are dynamic, rather than static, at this point.

One of the things they showed on that Discovery Channel series were some of the phone calls home. The one thing I felt missing from Kit's letters was the sense of worry for Brogan's safety.

I'm less sure how well it works for your story. As a reader, I feel less like there was a plot twist, as opposed to the author carefully laying a trap for me, as if that final one-eighty was the entire point of chapter one. I'll think more on this, as well.

I felt manipulated, and somewhat cheated.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I'm slow;

LOL, if you're slow, I must be running in reverse.

See, this is the interesting thing about this piece, for me. Assuming a perfect execution where we fall in love with this couple and get emotionally immersed in their love, in our anxiety that he could be wounded or killed, that something could happen to Kit back home, in getting fabulously turned on by the sex--we would never have the exact same emotional and erotic response to the story if we knew up front that Kit was a man.

You make some interesting points here, especially about the sex. I have to wonder how many "straight" guys got all hot only to discover Brogan and Kit were gay. That made me chuckle.

Seriously, it makes me wonder what was the point of the story was. Was the trick ending the sole reason for the story?

I'm not saying we aren't capable of getting deeply emotionally invested in a romance between two men or two women. I am saying that for most straight people (and maybe even for most gay and/or queer people) we respond differently to a romance that fits into heteronormative constraints (a man and a woman fitting neatly into their traditional roles as husband and wife) as opposed to a gay couple. And there are myriad, complex reasons for that, not least of which is that we've all been raised consuming books and movies and sit coms, and have little internal libraries of m/f romances that are accessed when we encounter new stories.

Gosh, does it show that this has triggered a major interest point, for me?

That would be a really different opening chapter. It would lose the psych experiment element (I don't think I'd be left asking myself the same questions I'm asking myself, now), but could be rich and rewarding in a completely different way.

I agree, it would be a much different chapter, and quite honestly, I think a story with a lot more impact.

 

[angelicminx]

drksideofthemoon= I cheated, I started reading your story a couple of days ago.



I’ll leave my thoughts and comments on Ch1 first. There was something uncomfortable in your writing right from the start. Brogan referred to his wife, but never used the words, she or her etc. Then it dawned on me that they were a gay couple, and it all made sense. I found the constant references to husband and wife jarring, almost to point of being annoying.

Uncomfortable? Hmm, that can't be good. It was extremely hard to NOT use 'she' or 'her'. As a matter of fact, I had to go back and remove a few places where I'd 'slipped'. I didn't realize the husband/ wife references came across as constant. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. If I want to keep this chapter intact as it is, I'll have to find a better way.

The four year deployment caught my attention first. It seemed excessive to the point of being unbelievable. And just where is Brogan deployed? The deer story, while cute, was unbelievable. During the rut, a buck will attempt to impregnate as many does as possible, so the likelihood that he is around to take care of the fawns is highly unlikely.

I wondered about the four years, and I didn't think the explanation was quite enough. It's something I think I have to revisit. (And will give me an excuse to bug my brother. )

Is where Brogan's deployed important? Not mentioning a specific overseas destination was an attempt to not 'date' the story. Something for me to consider for sure.

The deer story idea came to me as I wrote the letter. I know that deer don't behave like that, but I was thinking "Bambi" and 'fiction'... hey, why not. You aren't the first one to mention it, so I think I'll have to rethink that scene as well.

I didn’t care for the letter after letter after letter format of the story, I never got a feeling for either character, especially Kit.

If kept intact, would longer letters help? I struggle writing my own letters, and I get the idea that problem came through when I wrote theirs as well.

Personally, while I’m not a fan of gay love/sex stories, I think the story would have been a lot stronger had you not try to hide the fact that Brogan and Kit were a gay couple. I think you put a lot of your energy in this piece into trying to cover up that they were gay for the surprise ending. I felt for a lot of the story that I was being lied to or at least intentionally deceived.

I did put a lot of energy into hiding the 'gay factor', you got that spot on. I did want the twist. I was trying for enough of a love story, that I would be forgiven for the deception. I'm thinking I missed my mark.

I would like to see this story rewritten without the deception and have the letters reflect how each of them are dealing with their separation from the other, and hearing their hopes for the future when Brogan comes back. I think you missed an opportunity for a story with real meaning.

I'll definitely consider a rewrite without the deception.

 

[angelicminx]

Varian P= Hi Minx,

I was pleased to see your story involves military life, as that's a big element of the story I'm working on. I hope you'll bear in mind, and also forgive me, as you read my comments, that as I mention aspects of your story that relate to believably depicting a military setting and characters, I'm sort of chastening myself, on the side.

In the opening of your story, through the letter Brogan receives from his wife, I'm having some trouble reconciling who the main characters are. I'm guessing, given the video of their lovemaking, that the setting is meant to be contemporary.

Yes, modern day.

I have no idea, as the story begins, what Brogan's rank is, but not having anything to tell me differently, I'm going on the assumption he's an enlisted grunt. No doubt there are exceptions, but these days, most of the young people joining up are not from upper or even middle-class backgrounds, and most don't have more than a high school education. So the language he uses in his letter seems too delicate, too coy, almost Victorian. I think the letter can be tender and romantic without talking about silken sheaths and such, especially given that they're adventurous enough to get into dildos and taping their lovemaking.

I have to laugh at 'silken sheaths'. I couldn't think of another way of hiding the fact that Kit was a man.

I was also thrown by her reference to getting promoted to Assitant VP of a bank. Given my inference of their age and background, I'm really skeptical she'd be a corporate executive. Assistant manager of a branch, maybe.

In my mind, Brogan and Kit are in their early to mid 30's. I wasn't sure about the VP thing either, but I did want to give Kit a job that made plenty of money and had status.

Also, the two letters are so similar in voice, it's as if they were written by the same person.

They did to me too, but I wasn't sure how to fix it, or if it was just me over analyzing.

I wonder if it would be helpful for you to try to google up some actual letters soldiers write home to their loved ones, just to get ideas for voicing the character. Doing that, you might come up with some little details about military life that would give an authentic flavor to the letters.

Never thought about doing that. Thank you.

Clever moment there, with his cryptic reference to their argument. Now my curiosity has been piqued.


No one else even mentioned it and I was beginning to think I was too subtle. (It comes into play in Chapter 2)

I thought the scene of the taped “phone sex” worked so-so. Phone sex in real life is already a distant second to the real thing, so a depiction of phone sex is much less stirring than a depiction of a real encounter. I think it would be more erotic if the scene was him, his thoughts, his sensations as he touches himself, interspersed with the recording. Done a certain way, I think it could also be very moving.

I'm uncomfortable with phone sex. It always sounds so corny to me. Of course, I have a hard time verbalizing anything. I'll take your suggestion into consideration.

Brogan's recording for his wife felt much more real to me than his earlier letters to her—less flowery and coy.

Noted.

You're keeping me intrigued with the repeated, cryptic references to their secret plan. However, by the middle of the second page of the first chapter, I have to say my interest is really flagging. Their phone sex, her anxiety, and her intervention adventures just aren't enough of a plot to keep me interested.

I worried about that, since that's all there is, really, in the first chapter.

Alright, I'm perking up now, with him waking up in the hospital, and their actual conversation.

I realize that there are different modes of communication: first letters, then recordings, now a phone call, but I almost feel like the people talking on the phone aren't even the same people who exchanged those first two letters, their voices have changed so much. I can't decide if you're inconsistent, or brilliant. Between him being deployed and her being alone and worn down by fear, no doubt they both have changed a great deal. And people really do talk differently in writing versus email versus a phone call. I'd still suggest deflowering the language of those first letters a bit, but I feel like the evolution of their way of talking is the one way in which these characters are dynamic, rather than static, at this point.

LOL. Probably inconsistent. No one would ever accuse me of being brilliant.

Okay, I'm with you. Yes, people do talk differently in the various communication methods, but you're right, not with completely different 'voices'.

And the end of chapter one...

Wow. That was a twist, alright. On an intellectual level, I appreciate it immensely. You show us this relationship and as readers we go forward with our assumptions and associations, and then you reveal K., and we are left to ponder our response—whatever it is—and for the willing, ask ourselves why we have the reactions we do. It's a delicious bit of gender subversion. Fiction in drag, in a sense. I will ponder more, and perhaps say more.



I'm less sure how well it works for your story. As a reader, I feel less like there was a plot twist, as opposed to the author carefully laying a trap for me, as if that final one-eighty was the entire point of chapter one. I'll think more on this, as well.

Unfortunately for me, that was the whole point of Chapter 1. The story was my husband's idea. Military man, letters between husband and wife, just married, twist... they're gay. Run with it. (It was a little more involved than that, but that was the basic premise he proposed.)

One little thought: the he/his/wife gender language was a bit troubling. Kit identifies as male, but considers himself a wife in terms of their marriage? I certainly know women who have wives, and men who have husbands, but I guess I don't know any male-identified people who think of themselves as wives, or female-identified people who think of themselves as husbands. This is a big, complex gender/language issue that's been plumbed to far greater depths than I've gone, and I'm in no way saying it's not okay for everyone to work out what works for them, but to my ear, it feels a bit as though you've slotted your gay couple into a heterosexist dyad for the sake of your clever twist.

On "Will & Grace" there's a couple, I think, that have a similar dynamic. It's something I will have to think about.

I'll continue to ponder chapter one, and also have a look at chapter two, and no doubt will have more to say.

For now, kudos for taking lots of chances with this one.

-V

Thank you!


ETA: I'll respond to the other thoughts when I have more time. Running out the door.

Thank you both for taking the time.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

The four year deployment caught my attention first. It seemed excessive to the point of being unbelievable. And just where is Brogan deployed? The deer story, while cute, was unbelievable. During the rut, a buck will attempt to impregnate as many does as possible, so the likelihood that he is around to take care of the fawns is highly unlikely.

I wondered about the four years, and I didn't think the explanation was quite enough. It's something I think I have to revisit. (And will give me an excuse to bug my brother. )

Is where Brogan's deployed important? Not mentioning a specific overseas destination was an attempt to not 'date' the story. Something for me to consider for sure.

Yes, and no. You have dated the story in one of Kit's letters. He mentions Brogan's father's deployment to Vietnam. So, that would probably put the story anywhere from the 1990's to the present. Where is important as well, there's a huge difference from being deployed in Iraq/Afghanistan to being stationed in Rekyjavik. I'm not an expert on the US military, but generally deployments take the military member away from family and home for periods from twelve to eighteen months. If Brogan is an active member of the military, he could have been posted somwhere for an extended period of time, and some of it is called TDY, temporary duty.

The deer story idea came to me as I wrote the letter. I know that deer don't behave like that, but I was thinking "Bambi" and 'fiction'... hey, why not. You aren't the first one to mention it, so I think I'll have to rethink that scene as well.

I almost mentioned that it seemed to be almost Disneyesque.


I didn’t care for the letter after letter after letter format of the story, I never got a feeling for either character, especially Kit.

If kept intact, would longer letters help? I struggle writing my own letters, and I get the idea that problem came through when I wrote theirs as well. [/Quote]

I think VarianP hit the nail on the head, there was no difference in the "voices" of the letters, I think if Kit, and Brogan have different voices in their writing, I think that would make a big difference.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm going to do the first chapter here. Since I know nothing military and the others seem to have covered that already, I will skip it, although the four years did catch my attention.

""Realizing the clock was ticking, and he was running out of time, he picked up his notebook and poured his heart out on the snow-white page. ""

This stuck out right away to me. I picture someone that will pour their heart out not starting out with a bland Hello Darling I felt it sounded stuffy, not full of emotion.

""I want to thank you for insisting we make the video of our lovemaking........... The dildo you bought for me completes the illusion....""

Somehow, just dropping the word dildo in there makes it now seem dull and not special. I don't know how to describe it, but it just didn't flow right for me here.

This part......the entire tape to him. It feels stilted almost as if it's being read for the recording. This doesn't sound sexy or hot to me. It sounds more like a clinical check. I quick wrote up a few lines as ideas. I think I wanted to hear that tape had him transfixed with the words...images...so hot...so sexy...that he was moaning with it.

""Finished with your nipples, for now, I kiss my way down your belly. I reach the end of the trail and touch the head of your cock, my treasure, with my tongue. I suck your cock deep into my mouth, rolling my tongue around it as I go. When I've reached the base, I close my teeth on your cock. Gentle, I don't want to cause pain, only pleasure. I drag my teeth on your cock, all the way to the tip. I release your cock from my mouth.""

“Watch my tongue swirling the tip of your cock, lapping up the beads of juice oozing out your slit.”
"Look into my eyes as I explore your heated skin."
“See me, lover, as I take your sac in my mouth."
" Feel my teeth as they graze against your shaft”


The letter to letter format didn't really grab me. I'm a fan of twists at the end, but hiding it's a gay couple didn't really work here. In my opinion you could use that fact and make this a stronger story. Good story though.

I know I didn't make too many points, but it's new to me, so I hope this helps.

 

[Varian P]

Here are my thoughts on chapter two of your story.

Personally, I don't think you need that author's note prior to the beginning of the chapter; people understand that a second chapter is a continuation of a story, and that they'll be missing info if they've skipped chapter one. Besides, by the time they've read the first paragraph, they'll know they're reading about a gay couple. It also struck me as odd, after going to such lengths to keep Kit's gender a secret through chapter one, giving what reads as a cautious disclaimer at the beginning of chapter two.

I also think your first paragraph needs work; since this is the opening of the chapter, and should draw the reader in, maximum care should be taken to get every image and all the phrasing just right.

Hunger and long suppressed passion left no room for romance.

“Hunger” and “long-suppressed passion” are somewhat redundant; I'd suggest that “long-suppressed passion” implies the hunger.

Buttons flew across the foyer in Brogan's haste to unclothe Kit and remove his own clothing.

Having “unclothe” and “clothing” appear in quick succession inside this single sentence isn't great, plus “unclothe” is kind of an odd word. I'd replace “unclothe” with the more common “undress.” Also, “remove his own clothing” sounds slow and perfunctory, so doesn't convey the urgency you're trying to put across. Something like, “...and tear off his own clothes,” would work better, IMO.

Naked, Kit looped his arms around Brogan's neck, pressing his hard cock into Brogan's thigh. Brogan lifted Kit into his arms, and Kit wrapped his legs around Brogan's waist. Brogan made his way upstairs to their bedroom, raining kisses on Kit's face with each step.

This reads more like a piece of choreography than a moment of intense passion, and the entire scene feels rushed. Even if you don't want to show their lovemaking in minute detail, if you let us into Brogan's or Kit's head a little, let us feel his emotions, his physical sensations, we'll feel the heat of this encounter more.

Brogan and Kit have been separated for months. Wouldn't they take a little time, just enjoying being together again before they rush off to ask Kit's sister to get pregnant for them? You don't have to write more story, but just let us know some time has gone by since Brogan's return.

Also, it feels like you're just glossing over the fact that Brogan has been to war. He was shot. Probably, he saw and participated in some horrific stuff. It feels more like he just got back from an extended vacation in the Bahamas or a semester abroad.

I appreciate how Kit is knocked off balance by his sister's response, that it's not what he expected. This is the most true-feeling moment in the story so far, for me.

In all the talk of the difficulties of their arrangement, no one ever mentions the fact that Kathy is going to be expected to treat the child she conceives and carries--her biological son or daughter--as her niece or nephew. That she will, to a large degree, be giving up her baby. I just think that needs to be brought into the discussion.

Also, they all just seem to assume that it will be the three of them, rather than just Brogan and Kathy having sex. This, too, deserves discussion, IMO. [ETA: I actually think there's a powerful, rather touching reason for it to be the three of them, rather than just Kathy and Brogan: Kit and Brogan wanting Kit to be part of the sexual act that will create their child. But since that doesn't get addressed, when the scene happens, I feel like it's a threesome for the sake of the extra kink mileage of the group sex/proximity to incest.]

A warning for those that may have an issue with male sexual contact; this may not be the story for you. In my effort to not offend readers who don’t care for gay male sex, I’ve toned down those particular scenes and I’ve been told it comes across as avoidance. Any advice there would also be appreciated.

I wasn't too bothered by the fade-to-black approach to the first two sex scenes with Brogan and Kit, but when it comes to the sex scene with the three of them, I suddenly felt acutely that you haven't once, in two chapters, made me feel an intense erotic or emotional connection between your two lovers. The one scene that's incredibly intense is the one where Brogan has sex with Kathy. That's a pretty big problem. And even though Kit participates, the interaction between Kit and Brogan feels relegated to the background.

On the bright side, you do have the skill to craft a powerful seduction scene; I felt the tension, the nervousness as Brogan kisses Kathy, as they start to undress. I would love to see you bring this kind of emotional weight into the reunion scene between Kit and Brogan at the opening of the chapter.

You do a nice job, with Brogan using humor to make the encounter work. He feels more human and real to me, there, than he has up to this point.

I'm afraid this was one of those eye-rolling moments you wanted us to point out:

...he shifted himself until he was poised to enter his sister-in-law's pussy. He felt Kit move in behind him and hoped that Kathy was so far gone in her fantasy that she wouldn't notice, or would at least ignore him.

Also, the Vin Deisel fantasy thing, while amusing as an ice-breaker, started to just feel really sad, to me. It would have been far sweeter, more touching, if they all work through the painful awkwardness of the situation being warm and tender and close with each other. After all, they're creating a child together. The lack of sexual/emotional maturity is kind of disturbing, under the circumstances.

I have to say that by the time we get the three-way, I feel like you've created two emotional, heavy plot-lines (Brogan going to war, and him and Kit wanting a baby) which could be stirring stories that make your characters real and moving are just levers you're exploiting to create a reason for the plot twist in chapter one, and the threesome in chapter two.

The ending is another wow. As a story line, it's devastating. But because you haven't made me believe in the characters and their love, it doesn't have the impact it should.

I think you have the skeleton of a powerful story. And, having read your note at the end of chapter two, I know you're deeply invested in these characters. I think you just need to spend some time crafting a few scenes, and further developing the existing ones, so that the reader comes to care for these men the way you do.

I hope that's of some help.

-Varian

 

[angelicminx]

drksideofthemoon= Yes, and no. You have dated the story in one of Kit's letters. He mentions Brogan's father's deployment to Vietnam. So, that would probably put the story anywhere from the 1990's to the present. Where is important as well, there's a huge difference from being deployed in Iraq/Afghanistan to being stationed in Rekyjavik. I'm not an expert on the US military, but generally deployments take the military member away from family and home for periods from twelve to eighteen months. If Brogan is an active member of the military, he could have been posted somwhere for an extended period of time, and some of it is called TDY, temporary duty.

It didn't dawn on me that the Vietnam reference also dated the story. Duh moment. The only goal was having him deployed for more than one year, being injured and returning home early. What I had in mind was either a reservist or National Guard. The time frame will definitely have to be changed, and I need to figure out where he is exactly.

(I did all sorts of research on the availability of tape recorders during the Vietnam era, but very little on military deployment, discharge practices. Talk about dropping the ball on that one. My brother told me, after the first chapter posted, that there would be a period of time spent in Germany being debriefed before being sent stateside. And he would not have flown to Philadelphia International Airport. Which means I need to find out if a chauffer is feasible.) Of course, if I do a complete rewrite and lose the deception, the homecoming could go a whole new direction.

I almost mentioned that it seemed to be almost Disneyesque.

I had so much fun writing that scene, and I really struggle writing sex scenes, that I should apply at Disney. LOL.


I didn’t care for the letter after letter after letter format of the story, I never got a feeling for either character, especially Kit.

If kept intact, would longer letters help? I struggle writing my own letters, and I get the idea that problem came through when I wrote theirs as well.

I think VarianP hit the nail on the head, there was no difference in the "voices" of the letters, I think if Kit, and Brogan have different voices in their writing, I think that would make a big difference.

Gotcha.

 

[angelicminx]

Varian P= I'm slow; I didn't notice this at all. The flip at the end was a complete surprise.

Seems to be the only place I really 'succeeded', lol. As a reader, I love being taken by surprise.

See, this is the interesting thing about this piece, for me. Assuming a perfect execution where we fall in love with this couple and get emotionally immersed in their love, in our anxiety that he could be wounded or killed, that something could happen to Kit back home, in getting fabulously turned on by the sex--we would never have the exact same emotional and erotic response to the story if we knew up front that Kit was a man.

I'm not saying we aren't capable of getting deeply emotionally invested in a romance between two men or two women. I am saying that for most straight people (and maybe even for most gay and/or queer people) we respond differently to a romance that fits into heteronormative constraints (a man and a woman fitting neatly into their traditional roles as husband and wife) as opposed to a gay couple. And there are myriad, complex reasons for that, not least of which is that we've all been raised consuming books and movies and sit coms, and have little internal libraries of m/f romances that are accessed when we encounter new stories.

It's almost like you're reading my mind. (You express the thoughts much better though.)

Gosh, does it show that this has triggered a major interest point, for me?

Yes. I'm glad. Tons of questions ran through my mind when my husband tossed the idea on the table.

That would be a really different opening chapter. It would lose the psych experiment element (I don't think I'd be left asking myself the same questions I'm asking myself, now), but could be rich and rewarding in a completely different way.

Yes, it would be really different, and I hope I could do it justice.

 

[angelicminx]

drksideofthemoon= Having spent some of my youth in the military, I agree with your comment. Some of the letters didn't feel genuine, while others I thought were pretty good.

I'm curious to know which are which.

One of the things they showed on that Discovery Channel series were some of the phone calls home. The one thing I felt missing from Kit's letters was the sense of worry for Brogan's safety.

I'd wondered if it was enough.

I felt manipulated, and somewhat cheated.

Not my goal in the least.

 

[angelicminx]

MistressLynn=

""Realizing the clock was ticking, and he was running out of time, he picked up his notebook and poured his heart out on the snow-white page. ""

This stuck out right away to me. I picture someone that will pour their heart out not starting out with a bland Hello Darling I felt it sounded stuffy, not full of emotion.

""I want to thank you for insisting we make the video of our lovemaking........... The dildo you bought for me completes the illusion....""

Somehow, just dropping the word dildo in there makes it now seem dull and not special. I don't know how to describe it, but it just didn't flow right for me here.

This part......the entire tape to him. It feels stilted almost as if it's being read for the recording. This doesn't sound sexy or hot to me. It sounds more like a clinical check. I quick wrote up a few lines as ideas. I think I wanted to hear that tape had him transfixed with the words...images...so hot...so sexy...that he was moaning with it.

""Finished with your nipples, for now, I kiss my way down your belly. I reach the end of the trail and touch the head of your cock, my treasure, with my tongue. I suck your cock deep into my mouth, rolling my tongue around it as I go. When I've reached the base, I close my teeth on your cock. Gentle, I don't want to cause pain, only pleasure. I drag my teeth on your cock, all the way to the tip. I release your cock from my mouth.""

“Watch my tongue swirling the tip of your cock, lapping up the beads of juice oozing out your slit.”
"Look into my eyes as I explore your heated skin."
“See me, lover, as I take your sac in my mouth."
" Feel my teeth as they graze against your shaft”

I've come to hate writing sex scenes, and I think it shows. Thank you for your... *fanning face*... examples. The last thing I write are the sex scenes, because I dread them. (I have to laugh at the feeling that it's being read, because for me to do a tape like that would sound exactly that way, lol.)

The letter to letter format didn't really grab me. I'm a fan of twists at the end, but hiding it's a gay couple didn't really work here. In my opinion you could use that fact and make this a stronger story. Good story though.

I'm wondering if writing more about them individually, between the letters, would be a better way to go.

I know I didn't make too many points, but it's new to me, so I hope this helps.

Yes, it does. Thank you for taking the time!

 

[angelicminx]

Varian P= Here are my thoughts on chapter two of your story.

Personally, I don't think you need that author's note prior to the beginning of the chapter; people understand that a second chapter is a continuation of a story, and that they'll be missing info if they've skipped chapter one. Besides, by the time they've read the first paragraph, they'll know they're reading about a gay couple. It also struck me as odd, after going to such lengths to keep Kit's gender a secret through chapter one, giving what reads as a cautious disclaimer at the beginning of chapter two.

I experienced a harsh, adverse reaction to a gay male scene I'd written in a story as yet unposted and it made me very cautious when posting this one. I'd actually like to lose the 'disclaimer'.

I also think your first paragraph needs work; since this is the opening of the chapter, and should draw the reader in, maximum care should be taken to get every image and all the phrasing just right.

Reading it again from a 'reader' standpoint, I find I have to agree. It wouldn't 'suck me in and make me read it'.

Hunger and long suppressed passion left no room for romance.

“Hunger” and “long-suppressed passion” are somewhat redundant; I'd suggest that “long-suppressed passion” implies the hunger.

Total 'duh moment'.


Buttons flew across the foyer in Brogan's haste to unclothe Kit and remove his own clothing.

Having “unclothe” and “clothing” appear in quick succession inside this single sentence isn't great, plus “unclothe” is kind of an odd word. I'd replace “unclothe” with the more common “undress.” Also, “remove his own clothing” sounds slow and perfunctory, so doesn't convey the urgency you're trying to put across. Something like, “...and tear off his own clothes,” would work better, IMO.

Naked, Kit looped his arms around Brogan's neck, pressing his hard cock into Brogan's thigh. Brogan lifted Kit into his arms, and Kit wrapped his legs around Brogan's waist. Brogan made his way upstairs to their bedroom, raining kisses on Kit's face with each step.

This reads more like a piece of choreography than a moment of intense passion, and the entire scene feels rushed. Even if you don't want to show their lovemaking in minute detail, if you let us into Brogan's or Kit's head a little, let us feel his emotions, his physical sensations, we'll feel the heat of this encounter more.

Will rework.

Brogan and Kit have been separated for months. Wouldn't they take a little time, just enjoying being together again before they rush off to ask Kit's sister to get pregnant for them? You don't have to write more story, but just let us know some time has gone by since Brogan's return.

Yes, they would. I'll make that clear in the rewrite. Thank you.

Also, it feels like you're just glossing over the fact that Brogan has been to war. He was shot. Probably, he saw and participated in some horrific stuff. It feels more like he just got back from an extended vacation in the Bahamas or a semester abroad.

I actually didn't realize that until I went over it again in preparation for finishing the third chapter. I remembered mentioning talking about everything when Brogan got home, in Chapter 1, and then I did nothing with it. Thanks.

I appreciate how Kit is knocked off balance by his sister's response, that it's not what he expected. This is the most true-feeling moment in the story so far, for me.

In all the talk of the difficulties of their arrangement, no one ever mentions the fact that Kathy is going to be expected to treat the child she conceives and carries--her biological son or daughter--as her niece or nephew. That she will, to a large degree, be giving up her baby. I just think that needs to be brought into the discussion.

I agree. I missed it.

Also, they all just seem to assume that it will be the three of them, rather than just Brogan and Kathy having sex. This, too, deserves discussion, IMO. [ETA: I actually think there's a powerful, rather touching reason for it to be the three of them, rather than just Kathy and Brogan: Kit and Brogan wanting Kit to be part of the sexual act that will create their child. But since that doesn't get addressed, when the scene happens, I feel like it's a threesome for the sake of the extra kink mileage of the group sex/proximity to incest.]

Missed opportunity. Thank you.


I wasn't too bothered by the fade-to-black approach to the first two sex scenes with Brogan and Kit, but when it comes to the sex scene with the three of them, I suddenly felt acutely that you haven't once, in two chapters, made me feel an intense erotic or emotional connection between your two lovers. The one scene that's incredibly intense is the one where Brogan has sex with Kathy. That's a pretty big problem. And even though Kit participates, the interaction between Kit and Brogan feels relegated to the background.

My avoidance of writing gay male sex. (Though it's one of my favorite categories.) I'll have to rewrite the scenes.

On the bright side, you do have the skill to craft a powerful seduction scene; I felt the tension, the nervousness as Brogan kisses Kathy, as they start to undress. I would love to see you bring this kind of emotional weight into the reunion scene between Kit and Brogan at the opening of the chapter.

Thank you! That's quite a relief, and a place for me to start.

You do a nice job, with Brogan using humor to make the encounter work. He feels more human and real to me, there, than he has up to this point.

I'm afraid this was one of those eye-rolling moments you wanted us to point out:

...he shifted himself until he was poised to enter his sister-in-law's pussy. He felt Kit move in behind him and hoped that Kathy was so far gone in her fantasy that she wouldn't notice, or would at least ignore him.

Also, the Vin Deisel fantasy thing, while amusing as an ice-breaker, started to just feel really sad, to me. It would have been far sweeter, more touching, if they all work through the painful awkwardness of the situation being warm and tender and close with each other. After all, they're creating a child together. The lack of sexual/emotional maturity is kind of disturbing, under the circumstances.

Will rework it.

I have to say that by the time we get the three-way, I feel like you've created two emotional, heavy plot-lines (Brogan going to war, and him and Kit wanting a baby) which could be stirring stories that make your characters real and moving are just levers you're exploiting to create a reason for the plot twist in chapter one, and the threesome in chapter two.

The ending is another wow. As a story line, it's devastating. But because you haven't made me believe in the characters and their love, it doesn't have the impact it should.

It actually took me by complete surprise. From the moment the phone in Brogan's office rang, until the end of the story, my fingers didn't stop moving. It doesn't happen often, and it's been edited since first being written, but it was very powerful for me. I hope I do a better job in the rewrite of bringing the reader into my head.

I think you have the skeleton of a powerful story. And, having read your note at the end of chapter two, I know you're deeply invested in these characters. I think you just need to spend some time crafting a few scenes, and further developing the existing ones, so that the reader comes to care for these men the way you do.

I hope that's of some help.

-Varian

Thank you very much, Varian. This is exactly why I love the SDC so much. Through feedback and public comments, there isn't a lot said that's negative. I miss so many things.

 

[_Lynn_]

MistressLynn=

""Realizing the clock was ticking, and he was running out of time, he picked up his notebook and poured his heart out on the snow-white page. ""

This stuck out right away to me. I picture someone that will pour their heart out not starting out with a bland Hello Darling I felt it sounded stuffy, not full of emotion.

""I want to thank you for insisting we make the video of our lovemaking........... The dildo you bought for me completes the illusion....""

Somehow, just dropping the word dildo in there makes it now seem dull and not special. I don't know how to describe it, but it just didn't flow right for me here.

This part......the entire tape to him. It feels stilted almost as if it's being read for the recording. This doesn't sound sexy or hot to me. It sounds more like a clinical check. I quick wrote up a few lines as ideas. I think I wanted to hear that tape had him transfixed with the words...images...so hot...so sexy...that he was moaning with it.

""Finished with your nipples, for now, I kiss my way down your belly. I reach the end of the trail and touch the head of your cock, my treasure, with my tongue. I suck your cock deep into my mouth, rolling my tongue around it as I go. When I've reached the base, I close my teeth on your cock. Gentle, I don't want to cause pain, only pleasure. I drag my teeth on your cock, all the way to the tip. I release your cock from my mouth.""

“Watch my tongue swirling the tip of your cock, lapping up the beads of juice oozing out your slit.”
"Look into my eyes as I explore your heated skin."
“See me, lover, as I take your sac in my mouth."
" Feel my teeth as they graze against your shaft”

I've come to hate writing sex scenes, and I think it shows. Thank you for your... *fanning face*... examples. The last thing I write are the sex scenes, because I dread them. (I have to laugh at the feeling that it's being read, because for me to do a tape like that would sound exactly that way, lol.)

The letter to letter format didn't really grab me. I'm a fan of twists at the end, but hiding it's a gay couple didn't really work here. In my opinion you could use that fact and make this a stronger story. Good story though.

I'm wondering if writing more about them individually, between the letters, would be a better way to go.

I know I didn't make too many points, but it's new to me, so I hope this helps.

Yes, it does. Thank you for taking the time!

A story I had edited came back with the typical red marks and suggestions. At the bottom I had a sex scene that took about eight paragraphs with not one correction. I checked with him, afraid the last part had been overlooked. He just laughed and told me I knew how to do a sex scene.
I never struggle with them, just taking what's in my head, adding it to the story, and going on to the next part. Now to get the next part right.......LOL

If it's alright I'd like to read chapter II and leave some comments on it for you sometime next week.

 

[angelicminx]

A story I had edited came back with the typical red marks and suggestions. At the bottom I had a sex scene that took about eight paragraphs with not one correction. I checked with him, afraid the last part had been overlooked. He just laughed and told me I knew how to do a sex scene.
I never struggle with them, just taking what's in my head, adding it to the story, and going on to the next part. Now to get the next part right.......LOL

If it's alright I'd like to read chapter II and leave some comments on it for you sometime next week.

Yeah, I can see why he'd say that, lol.

For me, it seemed when I wasn't getting much, the sex scenes were fun and inventive. Now... damn they're hard and I just don't want to do 'em.


Sounds fine to me. Thank you!

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Well, I've read Chapter 2, and I think it was a better piece than the first one.

I'm still having trouble with Brogan referring to Kit in feminine terms. Is Kit very effiminate? Most gay couples that I have come in contact with have always referred to the other person as their partner.

While I can understand Kit's logic in having Kathy carry the baby, I can foresee a myriad of problems down the road.

Artificial Insemination, or AI doesn't carry a risk of multiple births. It's something that has been used for decades in the ranching industry. It's when they use fertilization drugs etc that the risk of multiple births increases dramatically. I don't think AI is that expensive, well, no where as expensive as fertilization therapy.

Maybe it's because I am neither gay or female, but I found the whole scene with Brogan, Kit, and Kathy in bed creepy to say the least.

I wish you would have explored Kathy, Kit, and Brogan a bit during Kathy's pregnancy. The excitement of planning for a baby, wondering what the sex of the child is. What is Kathing thinking about for those nine months? Does she have any regrets? Is it going to be hard for her to give up the child?

I was surprised at the ending of the chapter, I didn't see that coming at all. I wanted to feel something, but I didn't. I don't think you've made us care about the characters.

I'm not sure how long this story is, I'm guessing around 5000 words. In those few words you have Brogan coming home after nearly being killed, deciding on asking Kathy to carry a child, the child being born, and Kit being killed. The story feels rushed. There just seems to be so much missing.

I think with a bit of work, you could really make this story sing.

 

[Penelope Street]

I love the inspiration and the way the story challenges our prejudices, but I'm not sure the exchange of letters works in the manner it could. I understand this is exactly what happens when a couple is separated, but making the letters realistic means there is a lot of redundant and extraneous information in them. The couple exchanging taped messages of one another climaxing is a very sexy idea, but it made me curious why they never use the phone. And four years? What war is this? Maybe it's in one of those letters, but if so I'm afraid I missed it.

At the end of the couple's separation, I was left wondering what was the purpose of this portion of the story except to conceal that the wife with whom Brandon is so in love is male and then drop it on the reader. If that is the purpose, then it works, but I think it could have worked in a little more efficient manner.

And the deer story. That was just weird. I mean, is it meant to foreshadow that one of the couple will have to raise the child alone? Should the buck have died instead- Brandon's the one in danger at that time? Considering that the couple has been considering raising a child, can Kit not wonder about the reason Brogan mentions this incident? How can he not respond?! This seems like such a perfect moment to inject a little intensity- and conflict- into the letters.

Did the couple's manner of speaking to one another change between the chapters? For instance, how many times does the couple call one another 'darling' in a letter, but only once do they do so when speaking and then it's Kit on the phone.

I enjoyed part two more than part one because I felt more suspense, although I wouldn't quite call it a page-turner. Is there really no other inexpensive method of impregnation besides having sex? If I was Kathy I would certainly have looked into the possibility but I didn't get the impression that she'd done any real research along those lines. It was like, "Oh, my brother says this is the only way, I guess it is. Ok, let's fuck." I think my brother is pretty smart too, but there's no way I believe everything he says especially not about something like this.

And on the subject of brother- even if I would do it, he is so not going to be in the room! No way, no how. When she says something about Kit not touching her while she's naked I was like, "What? Are you kidding me?" I couldn't get past this enough to become involved in the moment.

Did you consider having Kathy try making the baby seem as non-sexual as possible? Wouldn't it have injected a little more emotion if they would have had to repeat the process? Would she have wanted to? I'd like to have seen the characters have to confront their emotions a bit more- especially the mood swings one endures while pregnant. Carrying a child is an emotional enough experience, but under these circumstances? I didn't feel Kathy's angst. She has some tough choices to make and I want to see her make them.

I loved your ending to this chapter- it really puts Kathy and Brogan in such a dilemma. Great job! I hope you're not going to make it too easy for them in the subsequent chapters, because I can't imagine this situation being anything other than an emotional nightmare for both of them.

A minor note: I have a hard time believing that Kit would be able to speak after his accident and even if he could, I think it would have made for a better story if he had not had any last words. Would that not have made it all just a little more poignant? Again, minor.

Not so minor: Did anyone else think it too much to believe that nobody in the story seems to have any problem with the gay couple, except maybe the chauffeur and he might have been more amused than anything else. It seems like everyone is just a little too nice to them. *sigh* That's just not the way it is in the real world for a same-sex couple.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

At the end of the couple's separation, I was left wondering what was the purpose of this portion of the story except to conceal that wife with whom Brandon is so in love is male and then drop it on the reader. If that is the purpose, then it works, but I think it could have worked in a little more efficient manner.

And the deer story. That was just weird. I mean, is it meant to foreshadow that one of the couple will have to raise the child alone? Should the buck have died instead- Brandon's the one in danger at that time? Considering that the couple has been considering raising a child, can Kit not wonder about the reason Brogan mentions this incident? How can he not respond?! This seems like such a perfect moment to inject a little intensity- and conflict- into the letters.

I never thought of the deer story in that way, as a harbinger of things to come.

Did the couple's manner of speaking to one another change between the chapters? For instance, how many times does the couple call one another 'darling' in a letter, but only once do they do so when speaking and then it's Kit on the phone.

I enjoyed part two more than part one because I felt more suspense, although I wouldn't quite call it a page-turner. Is there really no other inexpensive method of impregnation besides having sex? If I was Kathy I would certainly have looked into the possibility but I didn't get the impression that she'd done any real research along those lines. It was like, "Oh, my brother says this is the only way, I guess it is. Ok, let's fuck." I think my brother is pretty smart too, but there's no way I believe everything he says especially not about something like this.

And on the subject of brother- even if I would do it, he is so not going to be in the room! No way, no how. When she says something about Kit touching her while she's naked I was like, "What? Are you kidding me?" I couldn't get past this enough to become involved in the moment.

I felt the same way. On the subject of AI, I'm not sure how the procedure is performed on humans, but I have experience with AI and cattle, it's a fairly simple procedure. Personally, I would have rather seen Kit help Brogan procure the sample at the donation site. I think it may be more meaningful in a emotional way for Kit.

Did you consider having Kathy try to making the baby seem as non-sexual as possible? Wouldn't it have injected a little more emotion if they would have had to repeat the process? Would she have wanted to? I'd like to have seen the characters have to confront their emotions a bit more- especially the mood swings one endures while pregnant. Carrying a child is an emotional enough experience, but under these circumstances? I didn't feel Kathy's angst. She has some tough choices to make and I want to see her make them.

We can surmise from the letters in the first chapter that both sets of parents are least supportive of Kit and Brogan. What do Brogan's and Kit's parents think of the idea of a baby? What is their reaction, especially Kit's and Kathy's?

What is the plan for after the baby is born? Is one of them going to take an extended leave of absence to care for the baby?

I loved your ending to this chapter- it really puts Kathy and Brogan in such a dilemma. Great job! I hope you're not going to make it too easy for them in the subsequent chapters, because I can't imagine this situation being anything other than an emotional nightmare for both of them.

Yes, I'm interested enough now to wonder what will happen next.

A minor note: I have a hard time believing that Kit would be able to speak after his accident and even if he could, I think it would have made for a better story if he had not had any last words. Would that not have made it all just a little more poignant? Again, minor.

Not so minor: Did anyone else think it too much to believe that nobody in the story seems to have any problem with the gay couple, except maybe the chauffeur and he might have been more amused than anything else. It seems like everyone is just a little too nice to them. *sigh* That's just not the way it is in the real world for a same-sex couple.

Well, there were only three characters in the story, so we have no real feeling as to how Kit and Brogan are accepted in the community.

 

[Penelope Street]

In my effort to not offend readers who don’t care for gay male sex, I’ve toned down those particular scenes and I’ve been told it comes across as avoidance. Any advice there would also be appreciated.

My foremost advice would be not to tone it down to appease the narrowminded, especially since part of your point is to confront that mentality, right? That said, I didn't feel like the story avoided anything; every sexual moment doesn't need to be described in detail.

What I’m basically looking for is what works, what doesn’t, cheesy dialogue...

If there was a letter line that drew a smirk upon my face, it was this early one: Anticipating my every need, you have proven to be the perfect wife... This line seemed more like something from a performance review than from a love letter.

A warning for those that may have an issue with male sexual contact; this may not be the story for you. In my effort to not offend readers who don’t care for gay male sex, I’ve toned down those particular scenes and I’ve been told it comes across as avoidance. Any advice there would also be appreciated.

There was something uncomfortable in your writing right from the start. Brogan referred to his wife, but never used the words, she or her etc. Then it dawned on me that they were a gay couple, and it all made sense. I found the constant references to husband and wife jarring, almost to point of being annoying.

I didn't have this problem and think the ruse itself is well done. Even with the minx's above thread hint about a gay relationship, I didn't figure it out until the nurse says something about Brogan not being married.

The deer story, while cute, was unbelievable. During the rut, a buck will attempt to impregnate as many does as possible, so the likelihood that he is around to take care of the fawns is highly unlikely.

Knowing what I do of other male mammals in rut , this incident didn't seem all that likely to me either, but I wasn't sure since it only takes one odd buck to make it possible. What I thought was far more likely is Brogan invented the anecdote, but I couldn't figure out why since they apparently didn't have a child and the doe died, not the buck.

I think the story would have been a lot stronger had you not try to hide the fact that Brogan and Kit were a gay couple. I think you put a lot of your energy in this piece into trying to cover up that they were gay for the surprise ending.

Well, if you see the surprise coming, then you're not going have the opportunity to reflect upon your assumptions. But that's what you get for being so smart!

I would like to see this story rewritten without the deception and have the letters reflect how each of them are dealing with their separation from the other, and hearing their hopes for the future when Brogan comes back. I think you missed an opportunity for a story with real meaning.

While I think it works the way it is, if impact upon the reader is *the* goal, then I think the best time to start revealing Kit's gender is earlier, soon after the masturbation scene.

Well, there were only three characters in the story, so we have no real feeling as to how Kit and Brogan are accepted in the community.

I get the impression their relationship is accepted by everyone. They don't seem to have many worries in this regard and I don't find that realistic.

I felt for a lot of the story that I was being lied to or at least intentionally deceived.

I'm a fan of twists at the end, but hiding it's a gay couple didn't really work here. In my opinion you could use that fact and make this a stronger story. Good story though.

As a reader, I feel less like there was a plot twist, as opposed to the author carefully laying a trap for me, as if that final one-eighty was the entire point of chapter one.

I think the revelation might have been more effetive had it been gradual, so each reader discovers it on their own before actually seeing Kit. This way the reader will feel like they figured something out instead of feeling like they've been tricked or deceived.

Clever moment there, with his cryptic reference to their argument. Now my curiosity has been piqued.

I noticed this too. It's not too subtle for me.

I actually think there's a powerful, rather touching reason for it to be the three of them, rather than just Kathy and Brogan: Kit and Brogan wanting Kit to be part of the sexual act that will create their child.

I agree. And I think it would have been much sexier if Kit had blown Brandon and then passed the collection device (I think a condom would work?) to Kathy through just a crack in the door- totally leaving her out of the sexual exchange.

 

[angelicminx]

drksideofthemoon= Well, I've read Chapter 2, and I think it was a better piece than the first one.

I'm still having trouble with Brogan referring to Kit in feminine terms. Is Kit very effiminate? Most gay couples that I have come in contact with have always referred to the other person as their partner.

Yes, I was picturing Kit as being very feminine. The reference to being the wife instead of the partner was based on them living in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. (Which I never once mentioned, though I don't know why I didn't.) At the time of my research, gay marriage was not only legal in Cherry Hill, it was defended in a few news stories. There were also other news stories from the Cherry Hill area that led me to believe this was a very accepting little town. (A place that actually appealed to me personally and would move to if it weren't for family complications.)

While I can understand Kit's logic in having Kathy carry the baby, I can foresee a myriad of problems down the road.

Would you mind terribly giving me a few examples? I know there most likely would be, but I couldn't seem to pinpoint them at the time, and then I just forgot about them. (My tendency to rush)

Artificial Insemination, or AI doesn't carry a risk of multiple births. It's something that has been used for decades in the ranching industry. It's when they use fertilization drugs etc that the risk of multiple births increases dramatically. I don't think AI is that expensive, well, no where as expensive as fertilization therapy.

My knowledge was based on old misinformation. I didn't do any research, and I had always associated AI with multiple births. Brief googling (a few minutes ago) revealed a $500.00 average cost 'per cycle', if using a partners sperm, thus eliminating the 'excuse' given about cost.

Knowing I was posting the story on Lit, and thus feeling I needed at least one sex scene, I forced it to happen. (Obviously I'm more comfortable writing hetero encounters than gay encounters.) Thank you for the clarification.

Maybe it's because I am neither gay or female, but I found the whole scene with Brogan, Kit, and Kathy in bed creepy to say the least.

Might be why I had such a hard time writing it- (I have a twin brother *shudder*)- and why there's so little reference to Kit.

I wish you would have explored Kathy, Kit, and Brogan a bit during Kathy's pregnancy. The excitement of planning for a baby, wondering what the sex of the child is. What is Kathing thinking about for those nine months? Does she have any regrets? Is it going to be hard for her to give up the child?

I almost did, and then thought it would be too much.

I was surprised at the ending of the chapter, I didn't see that coming at all. I wanted to feel something, but I didn't. I don't think you've made us care about the characters.

I'm pleased you were surprised, and not the least bit surprised myself, after reading the posts to this point about the characters, that you didn't feel anything. It's something I will definitely work on in the rewrite.

I'm not sure how long this story is, I'm guessing around 5000 words. In those few words you have Brogan coming home after nearly being killed, deciding on asking Kathy to carry a child, the child being born, and Kit being killed. The story feels rushed. There just seems to be so much missing.

Good point.

I think with a bit of work, you could really make this story sing.

Thank you, Drk. That's exactly what I want it to do. I want it to resonate with the readers. With the help received here, I think I can make it do just that.

While I do think my writing is improving, it still feels so... elementary?