Story Discussion: July 3, 2009 - "Night Eternal" - Joshua Glynn

JoshuaGlynn

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Hey folks, this is a short novel length work that I am releasing here on Litereotica. It is about lost love, when two best friends are torn apart when one of them is presumed dead. It has a bit of a paranormal flavor as well as some cinematic style action.

I am halfway through posting the story now, I recently posted chapter 5 of a planned 11 or 12 including the prologue. I understand that not everyone will have time to read the whole story up to this point so I’ll break this up into sections. Also this is a gay story and I understand that it may not be your cup of tea. However, I will break up my questions to make it easier based on what you can get into.


First off I’ll give you a link to the Prologue. Now if you not into Gay fiction, you should be ok reading this chapter. It has only a kiss right at the end of the chapter, so it does not get into anything squeamish. Also if you want to read the whole thing, I would not scroll down as I am going to post a synopsis of the story leading up to the main chapter I would like to talk about, chapter 5.

Prolouge: A Thief in the Night


















Coby and Ryan have been best friends since the cradle. One night while at a club, Coby disappears, never to be heard from or seen again. Coby has been captured by a Vampire that has told Coby that he is not being true to himself, and that he is in fact in love with his best friend. The Vampire cuts Coby off from anyone he has ever known. He believes that by denying Coby the one thing his heart desires that Coby can come to learn himself and become a stronger person.

Coby goes through a lot of trials in his journey. His training as a Vampire and the revelation that his maker, or sire, is one of the country’s biggest crime bosses, turn Coby’s world upside down. He begins working with two other vampires, Roth and Brad, as they continue his training into the world of the mafia. Completing drops, shaking down businesses, and even eliminating a few threats, all become a common place occurrence in Coby’s life.

Ryan on the other hand has not been doing very well. The loss of Coby had hit him hard. Much harder then he would have thought. He knew he loved Coby like a brother, but this was more. Luckily through the support of his friends, his life began to get back to some semblance of normal. Then his friends started dieing or disappearing . The most recent loss was Nick…

But this ends up being Coby's fault as Nick is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Coby has a solution though. One that kills Roth, who was plotting to kill Coby first chance he got, and saves Nick.

Here is the link to the main chapter I would like to discuss, chapter 5. My stories revolve around the story, not the sex, so if you would like to read this chapter there is just one sex scene in it that starts just after Brad and Nick get home. Once it starts if you want to skip past it, it is about 9 paragraphs. This Chapter is a real turning point in the book and there is quite the action sequence near the end of it.

Chapter 5: Desperation

Hey guys, I'm adding in a bit here that will shed some light on the opening of chapter 5. The opening is a perspective switch, you get to see how Nick saw things. However, parts might be confusing without this excerpt from chapter 4:

The Archon had called me in because there had been a serious breach of our secret. A mortal had witnessed a Vampire in the middle of feeding. Even worse he had caught it on video. There must be no evidence of us! So the only choice was that the human must be hunted down and the video evidence destroyed, without delay. The Vampire that was caught was a good friend of the Archon, so this would have to be a discreet operation. If word got out, the community would be out for whoever had endangered us.

After some minor investigations we tracked the human we were looking for to an apartment building downtown. Roth climbed the wall outside planning to come in through the window, Brad ran up the stairs and I took the elevator. Once we were all in position we stormed the room.

Brad and I ran in the front door, while Roth had climbed in through a window he had opened in the bedroom. There were two guys in the apartment sitting on a couch. They jumped up as we ran into the room. They looked very shocked to have strangers barge in on them. It looked as if they had just moved in because there were boxes everywhere.

"Hey! What the hell is...?" before he could say another word Roth pounced on him driving his claws into his chest. His voice sounded familiar somehow.

"No! NO! I didn't see anything. I..." The longhaired blond didn't get anything else out as my claws sunk into his right lung. I spun around and drove my claws into his chest again slamming him into the wall. He slowly slid to the floor clutching his chest fighting for breath.

Once we had both of the guys down, I took a look at the situation. The blond was the guy we were looking for. The dark haired guy was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Then I got a good look at the dark haired guy as he was spitting blood. Roth hadn't killed him and it was good thing too! It was Nick! Oh my God! What's going on! This must be a new boyfriend or something. Nick's eyes were wide open in amazement.

"C...Coby!"

"Nick! Oh God man! I never meant for you... Dammit!" I had to think. Nick was almost gone. What could I do! "Roth! I want you to bring him over!"

"What! ...Are you crazy? I can't do that! And even if I could I wouldn't want to."

"Dammit Roth! You will do this! The Archon owes me a favor! He'll approve!"

"Are you nuts? I don't want to sire some old mortal friend of yours!"

I looked at Brad and we connected for a few seconds. He knew exactly what I was thinking and he gave me a little nod. I turned to face Nick. He was taking his last breaths. It had to be now! I spun around and sunk my clawed right hand deep into Roth's chest. He had a surprised look on his face as the sudden realization of what was happening sunk in. His face began to panic as he felt Brad shove a stake through his back and it settled in his heart. That would immobilize him while we worked. Wooden stakes don't kill Vampires, but it does leave us helpless as long as it is impaling our heart.

"But... Why..." Roth gasped

"Because, you're a reckless asshole! You have almost gotten us killed way too many times. You are way too power hungry and did I mention... you're an asshole! I knew you were waiting for an opportunity to kill me anyway if a good enough excuse ever presented itself. We have been looking for an excuse to get rid of you for almost a month now. Just think of this as a preemptive strike." I kind of scared myself at how cold and heartless I had become.

As Roth was helpless, I left him to Brad for a moment. I bent down to check on Nick. He was wide eyed and his weakening aura showed that he was afraid. I whispered in his ear, "Nick, don't be afraid. I'm going to save you, but you may hate me afterwards. Forgive me." I sunk my teeth into his neck to drain the rest of the blood from him. It was bittersweet, the usual feeling came back but this was just like I remembered my first night. It must have something to do with draining the last of a person's blood.

After he was drained, Brad brought Roth over to us. I grabbed Roth's arm, sliced it open with a quick swipe of my fingernail, then I held it over Nick's open mouth. After the color started coming back to his cheeks and his eyes sprung open. He jumped up off the floor onto his knees and grabbed Roth's arm. He began to drink quickly and the wounds in his chest started to heal.

After a few minutes, the look on Roth's face told me he was close to death. "Ok Nick, I need you to stop before you take it all." I pulled the arm away from Nick. He looked very disappointed. "Hi Nick!"

"Coby... What is going on? Where have you been? We thought you were dead. I...I feel kind of..."

"I need you to come with me now, Nick! I'll explain everything on the way. Who's your friend?"

"But I... Oh I met him a few nights ago. His name is Ron, what did he do? He came in a short time ago. He was very scared, said he had seen something I wouldn't believe... I don't understand, what's going on?"

"He did see something! Something he wasn't supposed to see. Did he mean anything to you?"

He smiled, "Other than a good fuck? No, not really!" I noticed then that he looked at Ron for the first time since all this started. His eyes were drawn to the blood.

"He is still alive at the moment. Why don't you fill up?"

"What?"

"Look, Nick I don't have time to explain right now. But what you need right now is nourishment." I reached down and picked Ron up and jammed a clawed finger in his neck. Then I offered Ron's neck to Nick. His hunger got the better of his senses. He took Ron and greedily drained him.

After Ron was drained, we placed him on the couch, swapped his ID with Nick's, spilled some alcohol on him from a bottle of whisky, lit a cigarette, put it in his hand and placed his hand on his chest. "Ok, it is only a matter of time before that cigarette starts a fire! Let's get out of here." We made our way out the window and down the fire escape.

We drove out of the city to the top of a local hill and took Roth to a secluded area. We placed him in a prime spot open to the eastern sky. "Well Roth, I hope you enjoy the afterlife!" I told him as we left him there. The look on his face was worth the price of admission.

As we were driving back to the city, I explained to Nick the basics of what was going on.

"Ok, so let me get this straight. I am a Vampire. I can no longer see any of my family and I may die before the day is out anyway, along with both of you! And you are both completely calm about it!"

"Well we have been in worse situations, right Brad!"

"Yea, remember the time Roth got kill happy and killed that elder's new child? I thought we were all dead." We both laughed a bit.

"And Nick, you are a Vampire, just not quite like they are in the movies. Unfortunately, your family will think you burned up in that fire. To them you will be dead! The alternative was that you would have been dead anyways. Cheer up though, Ryan will be with us soon!" Brad smiled at me. He had known my plan and was looking forward to meeting the guy that had stolen my heart. Nick still looked confused.

"So what is the plan Coby?" Brad asked. I had been waiting for him to ask it. We had just committed a grievous crime in our world.

"Well, the story is that Roth, upon learning that Nick was an old friend, took an opportunity to hurt me. Everyone knew how much he hated working under me. So, out of spite, he turned a good friend of mine because he knew it would get under my skin. However, that was a breach of tradition because we both knew he did not have permission from the Archon. So, we felt that we needed to bring him to justice. Roth was despised by most of the elders because of his recklessness. I doubt he will be seriously missed. I think however we need to go to Chris about this first so he can help with Remington."

"So who will be his sire?"

"I was thinking about suggesting you!"

"ME!"

"Yea, you're ready, besides I'm going to hopefully have my hands full in a few weeks. And, I've seen the way your aura shifts when you look at him!" I just smiled at Brad. Brad had that hand caught in the cookie jar look.

"Ummm... Wait a minute! Do I get a say here?"

"What is the matter Nick? You've had a hard-on since you laid eyes on Brad! I think you two would make a cute couple!" I said chuckling.

"Coby! Since when have you thought two guys make a cute couple? I thought you were mister straight as an arrow!"

"A lot has changed in five months Nick!"

"I'd say... You should see his choice in meals!" Brad finally chimed in, laughing.

On the way to Chris's mansion, I called him and asked if he and Jason could meet us as soon as possible. He said that Jason was there and they would wait for us to arrive. It was getting late, almost 4:00am and we had a lot to accomplish in the short time before sunrise.

When we arrived, I asked Nick to wait in the entrance hall for a minute. We entered the Great hall and Chris and Jason were seated in the chairs across from the couch. We entered, bowed and took a seat on the couch.

"Chris, we have just completed the job for the Archon, however, there has been a snag, two snags to be precise and we may be in big trouble over it. We need your help."

"I will do what I can! What does the problem pertain to?"

I took a deep breath. I had already decided I would tell them the truth, as well as the lie we planned to use. "Well, a break in the traditions. First, Roth is dead."

Jason seemed a bit taken aback. He was Roth's sire. "Not that I really have any concern for the idiot, but why did you feel you needed to kill him?" he asked.

Brad spoke up, "He had been planning a way to make sure Coby had an accident for months. I have had to be extra observant the last few weeks, because all of the face that Roth had been losing as of late he blamed on Coby. We have been both getting tired of cleaning up his messes."

"Roth has been a hassle the whole time he has been working for me. I just felt I should pick my battles and take him out before he did the same to me. Tonight an opportunity presented itself and that is the other problem and possibly the worse of the two."

"What could possibly be worse?"

"Ok, Nick you can come in now!" Chris's aura flashed of anger. I knew this might have been a big mistake. Then, his expression changed. I think he must have noticed Nick's Vampiric aura. "Chris, Jason, May I introduce Nicholas Cartwright."

"Coby, this may be beyond my help!" he looked deep in thought as a flash of recognition sparkled in his eye. "I know you... oh yes! You were with Coby the night I took him. He is one of your friends Coby? Well then I believe you should start at the beginning."

Nick sat down on the couch with Brad while I stood in front of the fireplace explaining how we tracked down the subject. He had fled to Nick's new apartment. We entered, took them both down and then I saw Nick. I explained the conversation we had and the resulting conversion of Nick.

"...and we left Roth staked on top of Crain's hill. He is technically still alive for the next hour or so."

"So I take it that your story will be that Roth turned Nick and you took him out, as he was in violation of the law!" Chris crossed to the wetbar and poured himself a drink. "Well if it was anyone else, you would never get away with it, but Roth has garnered enough powerful enemies I doubt he'll be missed. Are you ok with this Jason? He was your child!"

"Do I really have to claim that? He was a big mistake. I have no problem. However, what are we going to do with Nick here? He is sire less and he will need guidance."

"Well, we thought that maybe Brad could take Nick on as a charge." I spoke up.

"Is that what you want Brad?" Chris asked.

"Yes, I would like that!"

"You have never shown interest before in being a sire."

"I have been waiting for the right person." Brad was smiling broadly.

"Alright then, we need to leave at once. The longer we wait to face the Archon the worse it could be. Luckily the Archon likes both of you."

We traveled to the Archon's home. We pulled in at around 4:50am. Time was running short. We walked into the audience hall. Archon Remington was sitting at his desk. A slight woman sat just behind Remington, she was his personal assistant. I knew Price had to be around, but good luck finding him. He was a master of the art of hiding in plain sight. He was the Archon's personal bodyguard.

"Ah, so I suppose that you have completed my task... but you have brought an ensemble with you. Christopher it is good to see you and you too Jason. What brings you here this morning?"

"Well, Coby did complete your mission tonight but there has been a complication. It would seem that Roth has broken the tradition of creating a child without your permission."

"What! Where is that insolent punk I will gut him myself! Of course, I'm sorry to say Jason I will have to call a hunt out on him at once!"

"That won't be necessary Remington. Coby and Brad have taken care of Roth for you."

"Have they now! So the newcomer before me would be his ill-gotten progeny then."

"Yes Archon. May I present to you, Nicholas Cartwright."

"Ah yes! Well at least one tradition will be kept tonight. So, who will take on the responsibility of this neonate?"

"Bradley wishes to take on his training and to become responsible for his actions."

"This will be acceptable. I welcome you to my city young Nicholas. Be mindful of your segregate sire. I think rather highly of him and I believe he will teach you well. So tell me how you plugged our breach young Coby!"

I began our story of how we tracked down Ronald Brown to the university district, to Nick's new apartment. How we entered without opposition and took down the two people inside. I then told how, after Roth had found out that Nick was a friend from my former life, he proceeded to turn him to spite me. I also explained how we left Ron. Finally, how we dealt with Roth's indiscretion, "And he should be a crispy pile of ash in a few minutes."

"Remind me to never get on your bad side Coby..." Remington chuckled. "Well that will be more than acceptable. You have done well tonight. A breach to our security is a very serious matter and you sealed it quickly with little effect to the outside world. You are clean and efficient, which is more than I can say for most of the others. You have proven over and over again to be a loyal subject."

"Thank you Archon." I said with a bow.

"You keep this up and I assure you, you will get whatever it is that you wish! Now I think we should call this meeting short as the sun will be creeping up very soon."

"Thank you Remington, by your leave." Chris bowed, turned and we all walked out of the hall.
 
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So I’m looking for honest feedback, I tend to get a lot of smoke blowing, and great, and awesome. But I have not had a good critique for my work yet. So I’m going to break this down a bit.

Prologue:

1) Are the bad things happening in Ryan’s life, too much? Does it go too far?

2) Is the twist effective? Or is it too foreshadowed?

3) The prologue is a set up for the rest of the book. Chapter 1 comes back to the first night that Coby is kidnapped, and the first half of the book tells his story leading back up to this night. Does the prologue feed too much like an info-dump or more like a contained short story? If the story were to end there would it still be a satisfying story?

Chapter 5: Desperation:

4) The perspective change, does it work for you? For those who read the previous chapter, was it strange reliving the same events from Nick’s point of view?

5) The Australian accent, did I go overboard? Sometime trying to add accent can be a bad thing, especially if it is done wrong. Did it throw you out of the story at all?

6) The fight scene, what did you think? Was it too overboard? Did it get confusing?

Overall:

7) Coby’s journey. Is his growing concern for Ryan evident? Does it feel forced? The feeding nature of the vampires, does it seem too much like Coby is cheating, or does it just come off as part of being a vampire?


Thank you for your time. I would like to thank Kumani for her wonderful help in editing this piece. She has made it as clean as it ever has been. Let me have it :) If I didn’t ask for up there and it bothered you, let me know. This project has been two years in the making… so I am glad to be able to bring it to Lit.

Josh
 
Suggestion.

Clive Barker does/did a lot of gay vampire stories. His story HUMAN REMAINS is tops. It's excellent and gay stories dont appeal to me. But I know good writers often make anything appealing. I think the gladiator story is in the BOOK OF BLOOD, Volume 3.

A young gay prostitute is hired by an archeologist. During the course of night he stumbles into the bathroom to discover a Roman-esque statue of a man lying in the bath. Over the next few weeks he has the sense of being followed and being haunted by a doppelgänger. At the same time, his mind and body transforms; he becomes cold and lifeless, no longer needing to eat or sleep. He finally discovers his doppelganger, the statue from the bath, at his father's grave, crying in sorrow, while he is unmoved. It becomes clear that the doppelganger has become more convincing as a human than he is, and he wanders away, allowing it to continue living in his persona.
 
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Hi Joshua,

Thanks for sharing your work with us. I read the prologue and the initial scene of the first chapter. I didn't care for the prologue, but I found that first scene to be well written. Since I'm not part of your target audience, I lost interest not far into the second scene and decided to skip ahead to the focus chapter. I tend to not care for vampire tales, so it shouldn't be any great concern that this story did not intrigue me.

Are the bad things happening in Ryan’s life, too much? Does it go too far?
Since it's a supernatural story, can you really have too many bad things happening?

Is the twist effective? Or is it too foreshadowed?
Ok. Color me dense- what twist?

The prologue is a set up for the rest of the book. Chapter 1 comes back to the first night that Coby is kidnapped, and the first half of the book tells his story leading back up to this night. Does the prologue feed too much like an info-dump or more like a contained short story? If the story were to end there would it still be a satisfying story?
Info dump gets my vote. Plus, why summarize half of a story before telling it again in detail? I've not seen this done before and it doesn't seem like the best idea.

The perspective change, does it work for you?
Changing from one character's perspective to another is not an issue since it happens at a scene break, but I don't see any reason to use a first person voice from multiple characters. It feels like a trendy gimmick. Why not just use third-person?

The Australian accent, did I go overboard? Sometime trying to add accent can be a bad thing, especially if it is done wrong. Did it throw you out of the story at all?
This was not an issue for me.

The fight scene, what did you think? Was it too overboard? Did it get confusing?
I thought this inclusion just before the actual fight totally ruined it:
Thankfully, all of these guys were fairly weak blooded. Most Vampires today are very young. They create others while they are still young. The more ancient ones like Chris and Remington, take on less and less new children. Because of his age and years as a Vampire, Chris's blood is very potent. Since he was my sire, my blood has kept a good bit of his strength.

These five, however, were much weaker. Their blood like most modern Vampires is thinned and diluted. It doesn't carry as much power. The main difference is that I can use multiple gifts and augmentations at once, empowering my arsenal and giving me choices. These guys can probably only manifest one gift at a time, giving me a distinct advantage over them.


First, was there any other way of conveying this information without interrupting the action for such a lengthy explanation? Second, the explanation pretty much says, "I can beat them without any problem." So why bother telling me about it? To me, it feels like the narrator wants to impress me with his prowess rather than relate an important part of this tale. On the other hand, I'd expect a vampire to be a braggart, so it's believable he'd tell his story in this fashion.

What also didn't work for me in chapter five, especially compared to the opening scene of chapter one, was the writing style. While I found that first scene to be crisp and lively, chapter five seemed lax in comparison- as if it was written in a hurry and then not given a thorough edit?

Consider this sentence:
Actually, the black haired guy had this frightened look on his face but I seemed to connect with him somehow.
What exactly is a frightened look? How does one seem to connect somehow? And what does that leading 'actually' add? In retrospect, does this sentence really say anything at all?

Compare to the next line, which is so to the point:
I could feel his heart beat slowing.
I really like that one!

How about this entire paragraph?
Coby stopped me after a few minutes. He then asked me several questions and told me a bit about the new life he had awoken me to. Roth was the name of the guy that was half dead, he was the guy I had just been drinking from and was evidently a troublemaker that Coby was glad to be rid of. His other partner was Brad.
This is a stress-filled situation and it's glossed-over so much I can't see how any one character reacts. If the several questions Coby asks aren't important enough to cover in detail, why mention them at all? What exactly did Coby say about this new life? How does the narrator know that Roth was evidently a troublemaker? If Roth's going to be dead soon anyway, who cares?

Contrast with this later moment:
"Hello Victor, I am Coby Daniels, representative of Archon Remington." I offered my letter of introduction and sealed envelope to the air.

He began laughing as he shimmered into existence. "Well, well! It seems Remington has finally found a worthy courier. Who is your sire Mr. Daniels?"

"Christopher Westmore, sir."

It works so much better for me when I can see the characters interacting just like I'm there.

Ok, one last example of vagueness before I quit beating this hopefully dead horse:
I headed out of the club and was on my way to my car, when I heard a noise coming from down the street. I heightened my senses and saw where the noise had come from.
Two sentences about this noise and I still don't have the slightest clue what he heard? We never actually learn what exactly the noise was.

The overall plot appears to have plenty of potential tension, and thus I can see how it might interest fans of the genre. For me, weak prose lessened the impact of your story. It's worth noting again that I found chapter one, or at least the portion that I read, to be well written when compared to chapter five.

Take Care,
Penny
 
Thanks for the feedback Penny,


Are the bad things happening in Ryan’s life, too much? Does it go too far?
Since it's a supernatural story, can you really have too many bad things happening?

yea... I guess not.

Is the twist effective? Or is it too foreshadowed?
Ok. Color me dense- what twist?

Well if I had not told you before hand that it was a Vampire story... Would you have expected Coby's reappearance, and revelation of what he had become...

The prologue is a set up for the rest of the book. Chapter 1 comes back to the first night that Coby is kidnapped, and the first half of the book tells his story leading back up to this night. Does the prologue feed too much like an info-dump or more like a contained short story? If the story were to end there would it still be a satisfying story?
Info dump gets my vote. Plus, why summarize half of a story before telling it again in detail? I've not seen this done before and it doesn't seem like the best idea.

I have seen this done many times, although I can't remember a specific example at the moment. It is a foreshadowing introduction to the world. It lets you know the basics of the story, and sets up some of the tension that is played out the rest of the novel. Also it is told from Ryan's perspective, so you get more of a feel for what he had to go through. Actually I just remembered, "Alias" used this a lot. Where the story starts at the end, and then backs up to show how you got there.

The perspective change, does it work for you?
Changing from one character's perspective to another is not an issue since it happens at a scene break, but I don't see any reason to use a first person voice from multiple characters. It feels like a trendy gimmick. Why not just use third-person?

I can see a small problem here with the way I set up this discussion, I'll explain more later.

The Australian accent, did I go overboard? Sometime trying to add accent can be a bad thing, especially if it is done wrong. Did it throw you out of the story at all?
This was not an issue for me.

The fight scene, what did you think? Was it too overboard? Did it get confusing?
I thought this inclusion just before the actual fight totally ruined it:
Thankfully, all of these guys were fairly weak blooded. Most Vampires today are very young. They create others while they are still young. The more ancient ones like Chris and Remington, take on less and less new children. Because of his age and years as a Vampire, Chris's blood is very potent. Since he was my sire, my blood has kept a good bit of his strength.

These five, however, were much weaker. Their blood like most modern Vampires is thinned and diluted. It doesn't carry as much power. The main difference is that I can use multiple gifts and augmentations at once, empowering my arsenal and giving me choices. These guys can probably only manifest one gift at a time, giving me a distinct advantage over them.


First, was there any other way of conveying this information without interrupting the action for such a lengthy explanation? Second, the explanation pretty much says, "I can beat them without any problem." So why bother telling me about it? To me, it feels like the narrator wants to impress me with his prowess rather than relate an important part of this tale. On the other hand, I'd expect a vampire to be a braggart, so it's believable he'd tell his story in this fashion.

Mmmm... this is more like what I have been looking for. I know that part of the reason for the information being added here, was that this is the first place Coby had really interacted with the weaker of the vampires. It was mainly a need to explain more of the world. but I hadn't really though about the fact that by putting it just before the combat that the action was interrupted... I might have to look into how It might play at the end of the fight, as maybe an explanation to how he won.


What also didn't work for me in chapter five, especially compared to the opening scene of chapter one, was the writing style. While I found that first scene to be crisp and lively, chapter five seemed lax in comparison- as if it was written in a hurry and then not given a thorough edit?

Ok I think this is my fault. the way I set up the discussion. the end of the previous chapter went into a lot more detail of these events. The reason these events seem glossed over is partly because they are, mostly because Nick, the narrator at the time, had just gone through quite an ordeal. So a good bit of his recollection would be hazy. Also I didn't want to spend too much time rehashing something, this was more to give Nick's recollection of events

Consider this sentence:
Actually, the black haired guy had this frightened look on his face but I seemed to connect with him somehow.
What exactly is a frightened look? How does one seem to connect somehow? And what does that leading 'actually' add? In retrospect, does this sentence really say anything at all?

In the previous chapter, 'the black haired one' was Roth. A Vampire working for Coby. The guy was on a real power trip, and resented working for someone so much younger then he was. He had been planing to kill Coby at his earliest convenience. Coby and Brad had found out, and used this opportunity to take Roth out. the frightened look on his face, was because he knew he was about to die, and thanks to the Stake in his heart, could do anything about it. The connection was the Blood that was transforming Nick into a Vampire. He expands the Connection in the next line, where he felt Roth's heart slowing as he was draining him. The Actually was mainly because, Roth wasn't just 'there', his wrist was slit, and Nick was feeding from him. Whew... yea I should have either explained that more, or changed the jump in point for the discussion.

Compare to the next line, which is so to the point:
I could feel his heart beat slowing.
I really like that one!

How about this entire paragraph?
Coby stopped me after a few minutes. He then asked me several questions and told me a bit about the new life he had awoken me to. Roth was the name of the guy that was half dead, he was the guy I had just been drinking from and was evidently a troublemaker that Coby was glad to be rid of. His other partner was Brad.
This is a stress-filled situation and it's glossed-over so much I can't see how any one character reacts. If the several questions Coby asks aren't important enough to cover in detail, why mention them at all? What exactly did Coby say about this new life? How does the narrator know that Roth was evidently a troublemaker? If Roth's going to be dead soon anyway, who cares?

Again I can see where the confusion came in. All of that was explained much more detail in the previous chapter. The main point of the perspective switch is to see things from a different perspective, there are things that Nick experienced and saw, that Coby didn't or couldn't have known about. Also, I wanted the switch, because Coby would not have known what happened after Nick and Brad left.

Contrast with this later moment:
"Hello Victor, I am Coby Daniels, representative of Archon Remington." I offered my letter of introduction and sealed envelope to the air.

He began laughing as he shimmered into existence. "Well, well! It seems Remington has finally found a worthy courier. Who is your sire Mr. Daniels?"

"Christopher Westmore, sir."

It works so much better for me when I can see the characters interacting just like I'm there.


Ok, one last example of vagueness before I quit beating this hopefully dead horse:
I headed out of the club and was on my way to my car, when I heard a noise coming from down the street. I heightened my senses and saw where the noise had come from.
Two sentences about this noise and I still don't have the slightest clue what he heard? We never actually learn what exactly the noise was.

Hmm... I had never really noticed that. I my head I would have said it was shuffling boots on concrete, but I had never realized that it was vague until you pointed it out. I may have to revisit that.



Thanks for the feedback... it is exactly the kind of thing I have been looking for.

Josh
 
Joshua said:
I might have to look into how It might play at the end of the fight, as maybe an explanation to how he won.
That would have been better, but sometimes no explanation at all works just fine. It's surprising how many stories I read on this site where the author labors to explain something that the characters reveal through their words or actions not much later.


Joshua said:
In my head I would have said it was shuffling boots on concrete...
That would work.


Joshua said:
...the frightened look on his face, was because he knew he was about to die, and thanks to the Stake in his heart, couldn't do anything about it. The connection was the Blood that was transforming Nick into a Vampire.
Looks like I didn't effectively communicate. I understood what was happening and why- that's not the issue. Describing the events in terms of the characters' senses invites the reader to share their experiences.

So it's not that I did or didn't know why Roth was scared- it's that you told me he was frightened rather than showing me. While 'I saw a frightened look' is better than 'I heard a noise', showing us that look is more engaging than just labeling it. What makes it apparent that this individual is scared? Are his eyes wide? Is he shaking? Do vampires sweat? Probably not and I guess they don't suddenly go pale either, but maybe their teeth clatter?

It's similar with the connection thing, just telling me they are connected somehow is less effective than describing the physical sensations involved.
 
Hi Joshua,

I'm not going to answer your questions because, to be honest, I skimmed through most of the work. I have to second everything Penelope has said, there is just far too much telling and not enough showing. I also found your prose somewhat weak and that pulled me out of the story.

Prologues, as a general rule, are a bad idea. If you simply must use one, keep it short. Yours is a huge info dump and would have had me walking away from the story if I wasn't intent on offering you feedback.

Watch the cliches - this is something you'll hear from me quite a bit but it's important. Here are some examples:

Since the beginning of time...

Losing Nick was the final straw.

My world had crumbled around me.

He had an air of danger about him.


Also, there were so many characters introduced in the prologue that I couldn't keep them straight and I connected to none of them. Don't bombard your readers with characters.

My first thought when I started Chapter Five was: Stop with the exclamation points!

Also, the tense in the first paragraph is confusing. I didn't read much further, I was just bogged down in verbosity.

Your premise is interesting - gay mafia vampires, cool - and I think you could do fine things with it but you need to clean up and trim your prose, find unique descriptions, then stop telling and start showing. Start your story as close to the action as possible, (I'd ditch the prologue). You could start with the night out at the club and the disappearance, as that seems to be the inciting event.

General note: A lot of writers think they need to start a story with a detailed explanation of the characters and their relationships with each other, to help the reader's understanding. Readers are usually pretty quick, however, and can figure out what's going on with the inclusion of just a few telling details.

Anyway, hope that helps. I really do like your basic idea and I think it's worth working on. Keep at it!

Cheers,
Keroin
 
Hi Joshua,

I'm not going to answer your questions because, to be honest, I skimmed through most of the work. I have to second everything Penelope has said, there is just far too much telling and not enough showing. I also found your prose somewhat weak and that pulled me out of the story.

Well if you only skimmed and then only skimmed the two proffered chapters, then I fully understand the view... I made a bad chapter choice it seems. You missed all of the show as I focused on the tell. My mistake. I was pushed to the head of the cue a bit early, and didn't really get a lot of time to think about the best place for you folks read. Not really trying to make excuses... but there you are :) The prose in most of the rest of the story is much tighter. I'll go into more in a few moments.

Prologues, as a general rule, are a bad idea. If you simply must use one, keep it short. Yours is a huge info dump and would have had me walking away from the story if I wasn't intent on offering you feedback.

Yea, I do understand the problem with Prologues. There were a few necessary reasons for this one. First off... as I asked about in my questions, the Prologue was the original story. It was short story that I wrote a few years ago, and had so many folks begging to know what had happened to Coby that I eventually wrote a much smaller version of what I am posting here. I'm actually in the middle of a complete rewrite of this story. As you can see I'm already 6 chapters in :) The problem with removing the prologue is that you lose the connection to Ryan. I actually had my betas read the first draft without the prologue, and then with. the response I got was that it added to Coby's desperation and made the buildup to their reunion more satisfying. So I left it in.

Watch the cliches - this is something you'll hear from me quite a bit but it's important. Here are some examples:

Since the beginning of time...

Losing Nick was the final straw.

My world had crumbled around me.

He had an air of danger about him.


I see your point... never really thought about it...

Also, there were so many characters introduced in the prologue that I couldn't keep them straight and I connected to none of them. Don't bombard your readers with characters.

Mostly there as said before, because the prologue was originally a short story. But that said the main reason for them, and the slight characterization of them, was so that when they started to all drop off like flies, you understand the pain of loss. You get the depression he is going through. You understand why he would want to take his own life. If I had just said that he lost two of his best friends yesterday. and another... and another... there is no personality there.

My first thought when I started Chapter Five was: Stop with the exclamation points!

again... bad choice of chapter on my part. That is probably the only section of the work you will find that. Nick is an excitable guy... and he had just went through a lot. Looking back on it though, I could have cleaned some of them out of there.

Also, the tense in the first paragraph is confusing. I didn't read much further, I was just bogged down in verbosity.

Hmmm... well if you stopped there I can see why you thought the story was all tell and no show. You were reading what is basically a flashback to a previous scene. The scene was explained in more detail in the previous chapter. Again... bad choice on my part. Sorry about that.

Your premise is interesting - gay mafia vampires, cool - and I think you could do fine things with it but you need to clean up and trim your prose, find unique descriptions, then stop telling and start showing. Start your story as close to the action as possible, (I'd ditch the prologue). You could start with the night out at the club and the disappearance, as that seems to be the inciting event.

:) not so much gay vampires, more that in the lessons learned by Coby. He found that guys were his feeding preference. But I really see Vamps as more bi in that sense. They have to adapt to any feeding ground. You might have missed it but Coby does have a female Ghoul as well. And there was and will be bi scenes in the story as well. But also I think something that got lost on this exercise was that theme of the story is lost love... When Chris takes Coby he explains to him that he believes Coby is living a lie with himself. That he in fact is in love with Ryan and that to prove that his feelings for Ryan were more than just feelings of friendship, he will deny Coby from ever being with him. It is really about loss being used to strengthen a relationship. The majority of the story is about Coby trying to find a way to return to Ryan.

General note: A lot of writers think they need to start a story with a detailed explanation of the characters and their relationships with each other, to help the reader's understanding. Readers are usually pretty quick, however, and can figure out what's going on with the inclusion of just a few telling details.

Anyway, hope that helps. I really do like your basic idea and I think it's worth working on. Keep at it!

Cheers,
Keroin

Thanks for the input.

Joshua
 
Thanks for the input.

Joshua

No worries.

I didn't skim the prologue, I read it thoroughly, but after starting on Chapter 5 and seeing more of the same I gave up and started skimming. My comments are not based on a misunderstanding of plot or character.

Advice is yours to take or leave and you should feel no need for excuses. I will say this, though, regarding your chapter choice, in a well-written long story or novel, I should be able to drop in at any point and enjoy the writing - regardless of whether I know anything of the plot or characters.

I'm not trying to beat up on you, I just feel you need to address some issues.

This is a lovely description, BTW:

"I'm twenty and I look at the world through bright green eyes that often get startled looks from others."

It could still be tweaked but I like it. Reactions from others are sometimes the best way to describe characters.


"If I had just said that he lost two of his best friends yesterday. and another... and another... there is no personality there."

Think about this for a moment, because you have just illustrated my point. You do not need to tell me whether your protagonist lost two friends or two hundred. You need to show me that he is feeling profound sorrow, the rest is commentary.

Telling provides information. Showing engages imagination.

Show the reader smoke and let them infer fire.
 
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Huge huge info dump in the prologue. There's a whole blizzard of names that don't really serve any purpose. (Two characters are introduced and are then dead in a car crash a few paragraphs later!). I was kicked out and onto skimming before the half way mark.

It seemed very one-paced to me, a bit mechanical. This is Ryan, this is Coby, this is our friends, this is how we started to discover our sexuality, this is the event when coby vanished, now coby is back, omg he's a vampire!

It felt more like a condensed life story than a teaser to the main event. The writing seems okay, but you're bogging yourself down with unnecessary detail. Also, by giving away so much information you're taking away the mystery that should be a strength of vampire stories.

The aim of the prologue seemed to be to present a character still in grief over the loss of a lover some time before and then have that lover return changed to a vampire as the prelude to a completely new life. I think it would make for a sharper prologue if you boiled it straight down to that. Have Ryan walking around in a funk and reminiscing about the good times (although I'm probably taking the easy, cliched option here) rather than giving his detailed life history.

Chapter 5 also seemed to suffer from point A to point B to point C in rigid procession, which made it seem a little leaden in places.

Gay mafia vampires should be a cool concept, but I didn't really get a sense of mystery, or anything hidden to be revealed later. I didn't see much outside of 'we're going to be vampires and do really cool things because we're vampires.' That's not terrible in itself, there are plenty of people who adore that kind of story-

- I'm not one as you might have gathered :) -

-but I think it helps if you have a slant to separate your story from the many other 'I got turned into a vampire and did lots of really cool stuff because vampires are cool' stories. (Apologies if you already have a really good slant - I'm only going on what I saw in the prologue and chapter 5)

Ugh, I always feel like a real bastard when I look at the vampire stories. I'm not a fan so I tend to hate the very same stuff that other people love about them.

This needs to be a little sneakier in what it reveals to keep people reading I think.
 
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